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Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
Regarding parses, in order to get the best rankings on fflogs you also need to end the fight during a burst part of your rotation. Ending the fight right before hypercharge/wildfire, Inner Release, or a Ten Chi Jin window for example can easily be the difference between a purple and orange parse, let alone pink. The players who farm parses with the explicit purpose of getting the 100th percentile do so with groups that intentionally sandbag to let players finish in their burst phase (as well as add padding).

There's a lot of parse parties right now because endgame is pretty easy at the moment so there isn't much to do while waiting for the Savage raids to drop. At the same time, lots of recruiting will be looking at logs so it's a good idea to put your best foot forward.

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Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
There's a separate single target rotation for BLM at level 90 that people are using when they have the opportunity to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rk0Qlqdgmc

No Blizzard III or IV, just Transpose/Paradox, Lucid Dreaming, and very careful management of MP ticks. Basically the no Blizzard 4 rotation from ShB but even more extreme.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
WAR has one breakpoint but it's reachable with 2.5GCD anyway so it doesn't really matter. Fitting 4 GCDs into Bloodwhetting is nice for the extra heal but even at 2.5GCD that still leaves .5 seconds to squeeze the 4th GCD in.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015

CJ posted:



I'm getting the hang of Gunbreaker, finally got to purple. How much of a difference does using food/pots make? Do people use them for farming easy bosses like this? It probably also doesn't help that i'm the designated stand at range guy so i'm wasting a bunch of GCDs on Lightning Shot.

When i put the log into that analysis site it's yelling at me for only doing 8 GCDs per No Mercy window. Am i meant to stack skill speed for that? I can't mash the GCD any faster.

For EX2, even though people say group 1 near, group 2 far, a 5-3 split with both tanks up front and only 3 people in the back stack is easily survivable. There's no AoE damage beforehand so the healers can easily top everyone off to survive. And if you get Parhelion first, Heart of Light will be back in time for the big stack marker too so you can use that too.

Purple is plenty good and getting into orange will probably require some combination of intentionally eating mechanics for uptime (since as a tank you can easily survive one or two vuln stacks), padding during the add phase, and ending the fight specifically during a burst window.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
P1S is going to be outgeared so the damage downs during Intemperance will matter even less. But since the DPS check is light enough week 1 I expect that tanks eating damage down will become the de-facto strategy.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
Arm's Length's slow only triggers off of physical attacks hitting the target. This used to be in the description somewhere (maybe when it was a PvP ability or something?) or I might be misremembering it but it shares the same functionality as the old Eye for an Eye in that regard. The Slow status effect it applies is just a regular slow and nearly every boss in the game past like level 30 is immune to Slow. This distinction is most noticeable if you have a pull that has mages in the mobs and their fire/lightning/ice etc. casts don't trigger the slow.

There are some physical aoe boss attacks but they're quite rare. I can't think of any dungeon bosses that have both physical raidwides and are vulnerable to slow off the top of my head except maybe the golem in Qarn normal?

There used to be two immunes in the game for non tanks. Black Mage had Manawall which immuned physical hits, and Ninja had Perfect Dodge (now Shade Shift) which evaded one physical hit. Both abilities were changed in HW for precisely the reason of preventing non tanks from cheesing physical based mechanics.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
Dark has two problems that I see as the most relevant when comparing it to other tanks.

The previous expansions were balanced around the short duration defensives being less powerful than TBN and TBN as an outlier was the strongest one. The damage reduction from Sheltron/Raw Intuition/Heart of Stone just didn't compare to what was effectively a 25% heal (incidentally this also meant that Nascent Flash was better than RI in like 99% of situations for WAR even when you don't need to heal anyone else, the heal is just that good). This has flip flopped now. All the short duration defensives have had a heal attached to them while TBN didn't get anything and DRK got Oblation instead. So now TBN/Oblation is the outlier for the balance but it's on the opposite side of being weaker rather than stronger.

Furthermore, one of the advantages TBN has in its lower cooldown rarely ever matters because with TBN you are punished by losing DPS for using it inefficiently while the other tanks still get the heal benefit at least. It is very rare that you can use TBN on CD and have it pop every single time outside of trash mob big pulls. But this is definitely one of the unique parts of DRK in that if you are okay with being inefficient you can spam the shield every 15 seconds. To that end, I think reducing Oblation's charge CD to 30-40 seconds would be a reasonable exchange and all that DRK would need to put it in line with the other tanks defensively. WAR is the obvious standout here being able to literally solo bosses with its self healing.

The other problem is that Blood Weapon is still a 10 second buff and not a stack system. This is all sorts of dumb especially considering that several of DRK's GCDs are actually spells instead of weaponskills and thus all the skill speed stacking in the world will still not allow you to get 5GCDs during the window with the AoE combo and that Delirium got changed to a stack system anyway. And for some reason Blood Weapon's buff fading doesn't seem to snapshot GCDs as generously as old Delirium or Inner Release did anyway making it a more difficult 10 second buff for 5GCDs for some unknown reason.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
Before FFLogs changed it, the death mechanic in the last part of the fight completely warped the damage taken numbers for the fight because it just does 999999 damage to you up to 4 times depending on how many debuffs you need to cleanse.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
Living Dead can be fixed by giving it Wildfire style healing that only goes off if the accumulated healing is 100% of your health or greater. The issue with it unlike Holmgang is that you can't make use of the invuln without "wasting" heals unless Benediction specifically is used. At least this way allows the heals not go to waste even if the resource drain to do 100% healing on a DRK is high for non WHM.

Compared to the other tanks' short CD defensives, all DRK really needs to match them is lowering Oblation to like a 40 second charge. TBN does have a lower CD than the others even if that lower CD isn't utilized very often (except big pulls) but Oblation is more than double.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015

Mr. Nice! posted:

I'm i585.
WAR: 2135 crit, 2205 det, 400 dh, 400 skill speed, 1149 tenacity - 2.5 GCD
PLD: 2111 crit, 2205 det, 400 dh, 436 ss, 1137 tenacity - 2.49 gcd

I'm coming up with 300 dps difference on the Stone Sea Sky for the Final Day. I've done it multiple times on both jobs. WAR finishes 5-6 seconds faster and ACT reads 4.9-5k for war vs 4.6-4.7k dps for PLD.

I might be able to up the PLD dps if I were melded with DH instead of tenacity, but I don't know that it closes that gap still.

PLD plays ever so slightly better with raid buffs because a huge chunk of WAR's DPS doesn't benefit from the crit/Dhit raid buffs. Additionally, variance starts to come into play at the extreme high end fishing for crits/DHits which is why the highest percentile WAR (and MCH for that matter) are so much closer to the median compared to other classes since so much of their rotation is guaranteed crit hits.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015

Thundarr posted:

There's probably a game that can be played of "how many extra LB3s can we build by maximizing the number of critical health heals we apply"

Stormblood raid spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iprrwi572xA

This was patched for content after Stormblood so that the LB generation does not do nearly as much in the same situation for precisely this reason.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
Bloodwhetting is a 400 potency shield + 4 GCDs of 400 potency healing for roughly 2000 potency worth of saved healing from the healers. This is on top of the 10%+10% mitigation. If you use a guaranteed crit from Inner Chaos or Primal Rend, the heal will crit too. Inner Release crits don't count. It's pretty easy to save those moves to get the crit heal in a bloodwhetting window as well.

Holy Sheltron is 1000 potency total regen, with 20%+15% mitigation.

Heart of Corundum is a 900 potency heal, with 15%+15% mitigation.

TBN is a 25% max HP shield, which on a tank is roughly equivalent to 1500 potency worth of HP healing. Oblation is 10% and is probably the fair comparison here because DRK gets it at 82 alongside all the other tanks getting their upgraded short cd and duration defensives at that level as well.

This should show why people think DRKs are squishier in dungeons because their short defensive mit is quite a bit weaker than the other classes. And why even against single target, WAR mitigation is crazy good not even taking into account the natural synergy it has with its own Thrill of Battle.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015

Gobbeldygook posted:

Warrior is not just the easiest tank but hands-down the easiest job. No job has as small a difference between good and bad players as warrior. The warrior rotation is easy, flexible, and forgiving, allowing you to focus on fight mechanics, save gas for DPS checks, and not worry too much about fight timings. That is also the biggest knock on warrior: It's very boring if the fight's boring. The paladin rotation is significantly more complex (although like all tanks there are no procs or RNG anywhere in their rotation, limiting the complexity) and gives you lots of opportunities to screw up, but rewards planning around fight timings. If you look at P2S stats you'll notice that the worst paladins are worse than any other tank, but the best paladins are better than the best warriors.


This is also partially caused by the fact that WAR doesn't rely on RNG for huge parses. A huge majority of their outgoing damage are auto crit/DH so that part of their DPS is already pretty much maximized on a personal level. A similar effect can be seen in MCH, where top end MCH's are comparatively much closer to the median for their class compared to other DPS jobs. The really sad part about MCH though is that the literal 100th percentile MCH is still only like 20 DPS ahead of a median MNK in P1S.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
In another MMO I played (Aion), there was a brief period where the moderation team was active enough to hold public executions of bot accounts in the capital cities where the mods would use mod powers to do flashy PvP-esque animation things to bots as they perma banned them.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
Bloodwhetting is essentially 2000 potency worth of HP. 400 base in shield and then another 1600 additional in healing from the 4 GCDs you'll get under it in single target situations. In most situations, the 1000 additional potency in healing is more HP recovered than the additional mitigation that Holy Sheltron has over Bloodwhetting, especially if paired with another defensive CD.

On top of that, the main situation where higher mitigation overall matters is big pulls during dungeons. PLD would nominally have the advantage here in terms of damage mitigated except Bloodwhetting heals for every target hit it so basically becomes 4x Benediction for the Warrior during these big pulls. In content where a tankbuster is going to delete tanks, the higher mitigation % on PLD barely matters since they're designed for every tank to survive with the same general suite of CDs and the healing afterwards is pretty much the same across all healers.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
Void Ark was more interesting when the hallway fight in between the first and second boss didn't melt in seconds, the second boss actually got to feed and power up the pillar before being dying, and when Cu Chulainn actually got to do his final phase. Basically all stuff that's been outgeared.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
Bozja mathbot with forced march on top of the math mechanic is great.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
This person tried to buy my FC's house in Mist on Ultros several years ago. This was shortly before they opened up some new wards and once they did they moved there instead.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
FFLogs does give us these gems of parses:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/Q9nB6c1Wwzp8fD7N#fight=74&type=damage-done
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/CPcJWQRAmHkgyY3v#fight=2&type=damage-done

In case it's unclear, Yoshi'p Sampo is Yoshida.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
From what I've heard about P3S, a lot of PF groups drop DPS entirely during tethers for birds to focus on the mechanic which is a lot of downtime.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
The Matanga are also part of one of the cooler FATE chains, the Dataqi Chronicles.

This is a 13 FATE long chain that has you following one of the wandering Au Ra tribes throughout the Steppes which culminates in a big battle against the Matanga. It's pretty cool and I recommend doing it if you have the time to do so. You also get a neat housing item out of it.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
Yeah, there's something special about the period of time when people are hitting a game blind and don't have years of documentation spelling everything out. Not necessarily from a mechanical optimization perspective, but more from a "hey, what's going on over there?" perspective. It's not just hitting a game blind since you can always do that by simply not looking up stuff for a single player game, it's the group experience of everyone playing the game also experiencing the game new.

A similar experience recently was watching the world first progression in FFXIV for DSW. Just seeing what was going to be coming next was pretty exciting even if I wasn't actively doing the fight myself.

But when I was playing Aion at launch, it was cool discovering where named mobs would spawn, discovering giant collection nodes that spit out like 3x gatherables, or finding unmarked locations on the map. All stuff that wasn't super well documented.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015

Lord_Magmar posted:

I think that a dot/debuff class could be a good place to put a caster with a Bard/Dancer damage profile recently. Something to actually compliment Machinist as a selfish DPS by having a caster (and melee) who adds a lot of damage to the party, or even an individual ally.

In the case of dot/debuff caster the idea would likely be that your big damage cast is a high potency spell that does damage based on the number of debuffs you have on the boss, and you'd have long cooldown stuff like Mug/Trick Attack. Say a debuff that does (10-30) potency for every weaponskill/ability that hits the afflicted boss for 15 seconds every 2 minutes.

I mean, this is what old Summoner did with Fester. And it even had stuff that specifically interacted with your DoT timers in Contagion which included Potent Poisoning Potion consumables and the cross classable Thunder at the time.

And for a very brief time, Summoner even had an advantage with short-lived adds due to the way damage snapshotting worked with Bane in T12 which allowed them to do ridiculous DoT damage to the boss before it was patched.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
PSO2 Odin fight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beUbpiGNeVc

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
The final boss of the 87 dungeon casts "True Bravery" which can be interrupted with silence.

In ARR/HW, since stuns were part of many classes' DPS rotations they weren't exactly reliable for mechanics because there'd be no guarantee that the boss wouldn't have built up immunity. Silence was special though. But whether a move could be specifically silenced vs. just stunning the mob to interrupt the cast bar was trial and error until the updated interrupt UI got added. And then there was that fact that Silence was still tied to DPS rotations for most classes as well so there was no guarantee that you'd have it available for when it was needed. Scholar technically had an "on-demand" silence, but good luck timing Selene to cast it at the precise moment and MNK's silence required a specific stance which for obvious reasons wasn't always available.

However, as a fun legacy of that, Monks got One Ilm Punch reworked to always stun in SB, and then that property got shifted to Blue Mage's Perpetual Ray which allows for permastunning a wide variety of things that are unexpected.

Like there's an add in Leviathan Extreme that has an extremely dangerous cast bar. This cast bar is un-silenceable and the mob actually gains stun immunity during the cast. But if you displace the mob (currently only possible through Leviathan itself or Blue Mage, but used to be possible with a variety of abilities), that will interrupt the cast bar.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
It also helps to know what kind of fight you're looking at e.g. high/low uptime because that can really change rankings.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
For major patches, even if they are ahead of schedule internally they make sure to not release before the weekly reset to ensure no one gets a jump on any weekly capped resources.

They don't care about people getting a day ahead in beast tribes though.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
It's easier than it was on launch in HW, although it's hard to say if that's due to additional ogcds in healing kits/defensives powering through the damage or if the playerbase as a whole has gotten better. Also, gear might be a factor as Sephirot released on an even patch which meant there was still room to grow in terms of the intended ilvl for it as compared to an odd patch trial where people are going to be going into it at a higher and more likely equalized ilvl. Everyone's going to be equalized for Unreal so that takes gear variance out of the equation too.

Being able to be rezzed after being knocked off is a huge change though.

If you compare Sephirot to the current Extreme, Sephirot is much easier and it isn't even close.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015

Jabbering Idiot posted:

Thanks! That's shocking to hear because I still consider it to be the 2nd or 3rd hardest extreme they ever added.

I assure you the playerbase has not gotten better since Heavensward, though the general combat job design has gotten significantly less punishing across the board so it's much easier to do your role sufficiently and not get distracted and miss important boss cues.

The Earth Shaker proximity change and Force Against Might/Magic persisting through death are pretty major changes too, considering the fight was referred to as "long-rope jumping" by its designer. Messing up one mechanic was meant to punish the rest of your team to the point that a run would become unrecoverable, in contrast to how many extreme trials are designed nowadays where most errors simply punish the individual.

I guess I'm saying I'd be surprised if the current extreme required any appreciable amount of GCD healing, but you're making me hopeful!

To be clear, I meant that Sephirot Unreal currently is much easier than current Extreme. If you compare Sephirot Extreme on launch to current Extreme, that's a much closer comparison although the difficulty is on a different axis IMO so it's hard to compare.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
I really wish the PF description would stay up somehow after it fills so you can remind yourself which strat is being used.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

The Final Fantasy mainline jobs are pretty much covered, at least from my perspective.

All of the FF1 jobs have representation - Fighter (and Paladin), Monk, Thief (and Ninja) on the frontlines, and Red/White/Black Mages in the back.

Nearly all of the Final Fantasy 4 jobs have representation (Dark Knight, Paladin, Dragoon, Summoner, White Mage, Bard, Monk, Black Mage, White Mage, Engineer (Gunless Mechanist), Ninja) with the exception of Tellah, as a master-of-all magic Sage, and FuSoYa with a similar role.

5 and 6 bring in a few more, some you can consider hybrids or special to the specific game, but nonetheless I think of as FF jobs:

Time Mage, Berserker/Viking, Mystic Knight, Mime, Geomancer, Beast Master, Samurai, Chemist, Gambler and Pictomancer. Of them, Samurai is the only one with solid representation as a battle job, although themes and aesthetics are certainly shared in some.

To be more specific on what things have been borrowed from various FF classes:

  • Time Mage: Gravity magic is usually Time Mage themed which AST has. AST also used to have time magic-esque abilities that extended buff durations. One of them remains in Celestial Opposition, but the functionality has been completed changed from a stun/buff extender to an oGCD AoE heal.
  • Berserker: WAR Berserk used to actually pacify the player disabling weaponskills after its duration, which kind of fits with the Berserk status effect from mainline games
  • Mystic Knight: Various enemies do have en-element spells that make their attacks certain elements. Red Mage has sort of taken some of this thematic very loosely with magic-imbued swordcraft but there might be room to make it more distinct. Aesthetically though, RDM has pretty much captured the fencer look IMO
  • Mime: Gogo shows up in Masked Carnival as a boss, complete with the do nothing boss gimmick for a bit
  • Geomancer: Shows up in the AST story quests, enemies with bells also show up in dungeons
  • Beast Master: Covered in depth, but seems pretty plausible as a limited job. Whips are also a prime weapon type that haven't been used yet if they don't want to go one-handed axe.
  • Chemist: This one doesn't have too much I think, but gameplay wise there's definitely remnants here and there with Ninjutsu Mudras, Dance Steps, and even Eukrasia capturing the "build your own move" kind of aspect
  • Gambler: Similar to the above, although I don't think FFXIV battle design particularly supports an RNG heavy class
  • Pictomancer: I've seen Artist-esque classes in other MMOs so I think an entire class based around it could be possible, although it would collide a little with the Chadarnook boss fight and the emotes from that

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

Even in hw and stb this was true for ast.

It's the most double weaving class in the game and always has been lol

NIN with ogcd Mudras was probably more. Although that's more triple weave given the actions for Raiton.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
Personally, my issue with healing is that the reward for healing well is being able to press the Glare equivalent GCD more often. That's not a particularly interesting or compelling reward to me but I'm not sure how it could be fixed/changed.

Part of this is that a lot of being able to press that GCD is also dependent on how well your co-healer manages their CDs and that's a dynamic that no other class pair has. If a tank doesn't properly communicate with the other tank the proper distribution of party-wide protections or reprisal or CDs for shared tankbusters, that doesn't affect a majority of their buttons (outside of outright dying). A majority of the tank buttons are still damage/offensive actions and they always get to press those buttons even if they don't need the defensive ones. If a DPS doesn't align their CDs consistently, it doesn't affect other DPS pressing their buttons either. But if one healer has an overheal of like 200% and really wants to be an honest healer, the other healer could probably easily get away with 100% offensive GCDs.

It scratches the optimization itch in the sense that there is something to optimize but the reward for doing so just seems so marginal and underwhelming.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
When aggro on every party member was much closer, Shirk became an extra defensive CD for tanks by letting you sack another party member.

One quirk in the current tier of P7S is the double autos hurting a fair amount. If a tank dies, they need to provoke real quick to get the double autos/tank buster focused back on them, but a lot of healers are not providing the heal ASAP so the MT has to shirk instead and hope 25% of accumulated aggro is enough to get a freshly rezzed tank back to 2nd place real quick. Otherwise, the rez'd tank is going to drop rez immunity with the provoke action and possibly just die to another auto right there.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015

hazardousmouse posted:

I dunno about you guys but I like going ham on DPS without having to worry about stripping hate from the tank. Imagine not being able to experience the joy of a blm triple flare cause the stack would tear you to shreds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epTFlg2EgB4

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/news/detail/9f7fc966eaf0751728dedd909221983d9208a7c5

Third party tools under attack.

quote:

Following an investigation, we have identified the original player who illegitimately placed the waymarks and will be issuing an account penalty for illicit activity.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015

Electric Phantasm posted:

Make a positional for the front and it does even more damage if you're between the boss and the tank.

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Sneak_Attack

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
In the leaked tooltips pre-Stormblood, Third Eye was in fact a 20% damage reduction instead of the 10% it is now.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
NIN used to have two attacks out of Hide/Suiton. Trick Attack, which has stuck around and is the back positional and Sneak Attack which was learned earlier and has the front positional. Sneak Attack has been removed because Trick was pretty much always superior.

I feel like the names got switched though. It's more "sneaky" to hit someone from the back while being more brazen and being up front makes me think that there's an additional "trick" up the NIN's sleeves for risking themselves like that.

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Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015

Failboattootoot posted:

Would be nice but also kinda risky. You'd have to give them to everyone and they'd probably all just get used to skip mechanics instead of surprise tanking.

This is probably why BLM and NIN personal defensives got changed from nullifying/evading physical moves into %HP shields instead.

For those that don't know BLM used to have Manawall and Manaward, where Manawall used to straight up block 2 instances of physical damage and had a massive duration of 60 seconds (likely intended for Titan Landslides). Similarly, Shade Shift on NIN used to be Perfect Dodge which let the NIN just dodge the next physical attack. Manawall got changed to a %HP physical damage shield in HW, and then got collapsed into Manaward for both magical/physical eventually. Perfect Dodge got turned into Shade Shift in HW as well with the same functionality as it is now.

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