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Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Hi thread

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Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Cirofren posted:

lol at Russel finishing behind KMAG in the Haas and Bottas in the Alfa

I enjoyed this

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


I allow my offspring to wear Ferrari clobber and I am ok with it

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Residency Evil posted:

Can a smart F1 engineer (that definitely posts in this thread) explain to me why/how both RB cars died within a lap of each other?

Also: worried about my friend from college that's an engineer for the AM team. :ohdear:

My guess is as good as yours. Something overheating and failing at roughly the same time maybe?

I wouldn't worry about your engineer friend, we get paid whatever happens.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Dirk Pitt posted:

What did George do to upset the thread? he crashed into Big Valtteri last year is all I know

Dunno about you but I didn't like his bit in DTS where he said some people should lose their job.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Dante posted:

Considering Russel is the only mercedes engine starting in the first ten places I wonder what the chances are that every single mercedes supplied team has crippling aero issues, and that there's no correlation with the power unit being the common denominator.

You're saying either/or but tbh it's probably both.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


a pipe smoking dog posted:

The only non British teams are Ferrari and Alfa Romeo right?

Oh and Alpha Tauri

Alpha Tauri aero department is in the UK

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


MustardFacial posted:

Rebus, if you had good correlation between CFD data and wind tunnel data, could you design and build functional aero surfaces just from CFD without testing them in the wind tunnel at all? Or is wind tunnel time a requirement for getting parts on a car? Are there things that only wind tunnel time can show? (Navier-Stokes turbulence data aside, of course)

In theory the bare minimum you need to do to get a part on the car is:
1. Check it's legal.
2. Check it's not going to break when stressed at representative conditions.

I've known parts to go on a car which haven't been tunnel tested but in general everything has been through CFD, mostly because it's practically zero effort to send your geometry off to be simulated.

It's important to understand that CFD gives a tremendous amount of data about one very specific condition, so it's used to answer very specific questions: "does my funky shaped winglet do the job of pushing this bit of dirty air away from that part of bodywork, which we've observed to cause loss of downforce in high speed corners with high rear ride height?"
And the purpose of the WT test is to check the overall performance: "does my funky shaped winglet correlate with what I saw in CFD, and does it also not have any negative effects elsewhere in the envelope of where we expect the car to be, and does it function as a whole with all the other bits we've since changed?"

There are some transient and hysteresis effects that are difficult to replicate in CFD, but they're also difficult to replicate in the tunnel (I don't recall anyone saying they saw porpoising on their tunnel models). All of it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt and as a scientific experiment with a degree of error.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


tuo posted:

Out of interest: how much do vibrations from the engine and heat buildup influence such a scenario? The wind tunnel models are still smaller, correct? Like 1:2 or something like that? Or are they full size nowadays, and could theoretically house a running engine? Are the wind tunnel models the same weight (in regard to scale) than the real thing, with similar weight distribution?

Might not be a huge thing now with the biggers rims, but in the 13 inch days, a lot of suspension work was done by the tyres. Were the wind tunnel tyres able to replicate this, or is this not simulated, just pure airflow?

Tunnel models are 60% scale.

Sophistication of model systems vary by team, but they all have internals that simulate exhaust blowing. Weight and weight distribution are kind of not a thing - we are interested in the forces exerted on the model by the airflow so it's more important that it's geometrically correct rather than physically correct. We do try and make the tyre shape as close to the track condition as possible through various clever methods.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


tuo posted:

Especially in regard to the porpoising, wouldn't a simulation of the suspension help to detect something like that before the car hits the track/testing? Or is the suspension actually not relevant towards this effect, and it is purely aerodynamics?
I think you'd need a totally different wind tunnel model with passive suspension to try and replicate this. You then need to construct it in such a way that the stiffness is smaller proportionally to the model.
It's likely all relevant!

ArmZ posted:

is this why porpoising seemed like a surprise or was that just the media latching onto something
It could well be - if you're actively controlling the suspension to a specific place it's probably not going to bounce much!

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


tuo posted:

Thanks a lot for the feedback!

One last question (you can easily answer with „shut the gently caress up tuo“): would it help to move to 1:1 models inside the wind tunnel, where suspension could be simulated closer to the on-track data, or is that not sensible in regard to the years to come (where everyone will find solutions to adapt to certain problems like bouncing)?

With the little on-track testing time teams have, I just wonder how much insight might be gained from both CFD and wind tunnel to prevent such problems.

Full size models would help hugely with correlation, but would also increase costs and put teams at a disadvantage who do not have access to a tunnel capable of fitting one.

The general noises from the FIA have been moving toward banning use of wind tunnels entirely, so I doubt they'd lift or relax any of the current restrictions before then.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


italian quid posted:

Rebus can you explain what in the gently caress is the rational between the stupid steering wheel inertia bullshit because I really don't loving see it.

Ain't broke don't spend £££ on it when there are glaring problems elsewhere that would have a measurably better impact on car performance?

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Cimber posted:

what the hell is black pudding? Do you mean chocolate? Why would you fry chocolate pudding?

Only the best item on the full English breakfast

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Just got home from a holiday in Italia what hijinks have I missed

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Sab0921 posted:

Hottest take: Crofty is good and no one gives a gently caress about infrared cameras mapping heat signatures on cars that's stupid.

I would use it to check if Albon's brakes are going to set fire any time soon

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Tbh it's not as complicated as you'd think. There's a technical document somewhere that tells you how you should calculate your spent allowance.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Full Collapse posted:

Last I remember, high throughput computing love themselves some Docker.

The regs make it a pain in the arse to account your usage if you go docker, which is why it is mostly run directly on the tin.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Full Collapse posted:

Totally understand. Where I was, it was a bunch of cranky physicists with dubious code.

CFD teams aren't much different!

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


If you look in appendix 8 section 4 in the sporting regs you'll find the calculation for CFD usage. Bit of light reading for an evening.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


ethanol posted:

so is it safe to assume a team uses up all this comp time before the season even starts? is more time allotted over the course of a season, or this just like, given in bulk for any given year

The year is split into periods of about 8 weeks - the limits are apportioned across the year into these periods, and are also now influenced by championship position (perform good get less WT and CFD allowance, perform poo poo and get more).

It's "use it or lose it" so if you aren't up against the limit at the end of the period then you can't carry it over, and if you use it all well in advance of the end of the period then you have a lot of aeros sat doing nothing.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Thanks Ants posted:

Let Rebus be race director

That's v kind of you but I'm not v qualified for that.

I'd like to recommend "fan director" which crowdsources all decisions based from a slider in the F1 app that goes between "I like what I'm seeing", "that chap looks in peril, bring out the safety car", and "let's spice this poo poo up I'm bored". Some other quick time events could be added to keep everyone engaged.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Custard Undies posted:

Audi should buy Williams from that investment company and leave McLaren alone.

This, for the sweet supplier discount scheme

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Thanks Ants posted:

Dorilton are American aren’t they, checks out

:smith:

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


italian quid posted:

Rebus why aren't you sponsored by Ponos anymore. I love that loving dumb cat mobile gatcha game.

Hadn't even noticed they'd gone. I guess it silently expired.

Thanks Ants posted:

What did Rokit do? I suspect even the worst sponsor of five years ago was more legit than crypto.

They're still sponsoring in other series I think?

I'm still thankful to rokit, not for their terrible phones which I had to endure for a year, but their rokit drinks sub-brand which introduced me to ABK beer.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Dudley posted:

Did you at least get some freebies? And if you drank enough beer did the terrible screen on the phone look ok?

Yeah we got a 4 pack of special edition beer with a picture of Frank (famous teetotaler) on the label.

I could manage with the screen, but the audio quality was like everyone was underwater. Also they overheated and crashed daily.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


MrMojok posted:

Historically, one of the main problems with this SA thread has been the total inability to ask a serious question and get serious, non-meme answers.

Formula One is Serious Business, so I will give posters in this thread an opportunity to buck that memelord trend, right now.


Q: Why is Ferrari the absolute best and most important team in F1 history, and why throughout history are all the other teams full of fraudulent drivers, designers, and team principals, who historically humiliate themselves nonstop trying to compete against the Scuderia?

Careful now

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Dirk Pitt posted:

After a weekend in London it is time to go back to Stockholm. I don’t know how you English live.

I also detest London.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


learnincurve posted:

Bernie sold years and years worth of exclusive rights to sky about 9 seconds before he got ousted booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Counting down the days.... 2026 right?

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


tuo posted:

Rebus, what’s the common reaction at the factory when Latifi comes in and asks you guys why his car doesn’t have the same pace as Albon’s?

I'm not involved in those conversations, or privy to what might be being said. Sorry I got nothing juicy.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Declan MacManus posted:

it’s hosed up, imo, that they give albon the good car and latifi the poo poo car

They both get the poo poo car

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


marshalljim posted:

Rebus hates Canadians, so he sabotages Latifi's car to make him look worse than Albon?

I sabotage him by posting here instead of making the car better

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


nerox posted:

I've gone more than 20 years without a probe because I am a model poster. I have been looking at these forums for more than half my life. :stare:

Sounds like you need to throw a few c bombs around

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Panic! At The Tesco posted:

williams apparently

We got a source for this? I might know a guy who can make things happen.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


MustardFacial posted:

Enjoy your holiday Rebus

A week with the in-laws and a week by myself with the kids.

Counting down the hours until Spa.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Thanks Ants posted:

Afaik you can’t do anything during the break, no wind tunnel stuff, no manufacturing etc.

There are a few exceptions, things like maintenance of the manufacturing equipment, wind tunnel, and IT hardware that would be difficult to schedule in otherwise.

Other than that, anyone who doesn't directly contribute to making the car go faster doesn't get shutdown.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Pr0kjayhawk posted:

a loving Williams.

It may be off season but I'm still here, my guy

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Custard Undies posted:

Ready to get back to work so you can have a break from the family? :D

Seriously though, I hope you are enjoying the downtime although you did say you were rather busy during it.

Do you think of solutions to things during the downtime, which obviously you cannot work on, or are you able to actually switch off and take that much needed break?

Downtime is good and easy to switch off. Literally everyone else is off too so there's no distractions at all and I don't feel any need to be within 10 minutes of a laptop at all times.

Mostly looking forward to Spa as I've got hospitality tickets to watch the race at the HQ conference centre.

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


This guy has lots of passione

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Alaois posted:

anyway, the main point is the results tables should look like this again



:unsmith:

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Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...



Thanks buddy but I'm gonna languish here at the back of the grid a little longer.

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