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FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Frosted Flake posted:

lol if they time skip from 1177 BC to 30 BC just to do that, you gotta hand it to them.

they did it in rtw w/ ancient egyptian ptolemaics

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FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Frosted Flake posted:


ee: Game development heads can better explain but you can also see from the stuff on https://pharaoh.totalwar.com which content they had worked on in Troy, just like how Attila and Thrones of Britannia were interconnected. Related to my above example, they uncartooned the armour and weapons they had clearly researched during the process of making Troy. The last Troy DLC had a bunch of Egyptian content and I can see how this reduces workflow. Am I getting that about right?
i remember ppl got mad over how much they reused between Napoleon and Empire TW

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Mister Bates posted:

no, and the first major expansion, which will add a bunch of basic features to diplomacy, imperialism, and subject management, systems which currently barely exist in the game, is not due for another year

it's going to add foreign investment

game will have been out for a year and a half and has no way to promote the development of resource extraction infrastructure in colonies except by directly annexing the land and building the stuff yourself, while it's owned by local, usually native capitalists, who pay their workers well, and since nobody in unincorporated territory pays any taxes but the market costs for goods are the same as in your capitol, this usually results in a higher standard of living in african/south american rubber extraction colonies than in the metropole, which means those colonies will often pull immigrants more than like, NYC.

at the same time immigration is only within customs unions & shared markets & immigration pull is from standard of living + employment opportunity, so if you you're a smaller country and join France or the US's customs unions and don't have enough stuff built up to employ people, your country will fully fuckin depopulate down to like 5,000 people left

no scramble for africa because it gets totally locked down by abt. 1860

austrohungarian empire has no domestic cultural issues, often will form grossestdeutschland from austria, hungary, Prussia and all of the german minors in like, 1845

ottomans regularly convert all the Balkans to Islam by about 1860, never collapse

japan regularly collapses under unemployment as they rarely modernize or open their markets before their pop growth starts to exceed their ability to develop b/c food gets more expensive and farm plantations hire half as many people as the subsistence farms they displace, which causes a radicalism/turmoil spiral that never stabilizes because Japan hasn't unlocked socialism or any labor/welfare laws and can't trade

qing china either holds together or is completely conquered by the heavenly kingdom, neither collapse

tsarist Russia never collapses

the new dlc i guess has a bug where if you're France and Napoleon III has restored the empire, a nude Napoleon III clone will show up and continue to agitate for the restoration of the empire

they dropped the ball

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Frosted Flake posted:

lol holy poo poo

it's really bad and it's disappointing because the potential for something really good is there between all of the poo poo it does model or at least abstracts, but then the AI is braindead and the game allows for absurd stuff that doesn't make any sense way too often and inconsistently

e.g. as Qing china in 1836 you can put a tarrif on corn imports and you get the Corn Laws journal entry, giving your landholder interest groups a market liberal leader, making the landholders, -all of them-, immediately think free trade and laissez faire economics are a loving imperative. even though your country has like 800 capitalist pops total in your tooling and furniture/clothing factories and like 19 million landholder aristocrats practicing serfdom who would have zero interest in any form of market competition

but since the landholders are by far the most powerful interest group in china at the time, and the IG leader determines the entire group's secondary political views & they function as monoliths, you can push freetrade/LF through in 6 months each

you can also do this as Persia, or Russia, and they become market liberal paradises overnight because once you get LF+freetrade and stack factories in your market capitol, you give the industrialist bloc so much clout that by the time your lib king dies the landowners are already behind them and you're the #1 GDP in the world, only limited by how much demand the other countries generate by developing

then you increase the minimum wage & welfare, push through graduated taxation, worker's co-ops, council rule, planned economy, multiculturalist single party state w/o a revolution or anything :)

if you do it quickly enough you get so many loyalists from the rapid hyper industrialization that the capitalists just kinda let it happen, petite bourgeoisie never really have much impact because a ton of them are clerks/artisans a bunch of clerk/artisan income is from services instead of a physical resource that can be exported and the demand for services is brokenly low for some reason

by the time there's enough development and demand to have and use a large service industry it's so devalued by oversaturation that players will often not use coal or electric lighting or have rail transportation in their urban hubs to create jobs, because they increase the supply of services until they're worthless & don't give a liveable wage

people will also de-industrialize and de-automate their production methods later in the game to increase per-industry employment(ditch rail transport in the mines? +5k laborers each one!) as the amount of wood, iron, coal, and oil available on the map, period, let alone with the AI only developing 25% of it by endgame, isn't high enough to fuel the manufacturing industries which you aren't capped on producing

that false bottleneck of primary resources ends up leading to game timelines of a ~90 year unbroken, national GDP size construction bubble that collapses as the amount of profitable developments dwindle and you realize you need to find work for the 4 5 million soon-to-be-unemployed construction workers, AND you need to find somewhere to sell the 25% of your GDP that's purely construction goods for your construction industry or those places will all shut down and fire their employees too, and nobody's able to fulfill demand because each one of your states is 10-30x more developed than anyone else's, no matter which country you started as

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Cuttlefush posted:

what the gently caress. did an economist sketch out the design of the game systems or what?

1000%

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Lostconfused posted:

South Africa and America colonies are European, not native.



British Raj also.

There are immigration events that happen outside of customs unions. It also takes into account state's free arable land and population. So it's mainly designed to drive migration to North America with a ton of arable land and low population density.

North Africa is split between Britain and France but severe malaria should still be keeping everyone out of central and south africa.

there's one mass immigration event that used to fire away too often and give a big pop up alert, it still fires occasionally but it's pretty much totally random iirc & the only non-market migration - your pops won't migrate INTERNALLY with closed borders, even if there's 30 hiring factories one state away. you can be closed borders with treaty ports scattered all around the world, no Navy, no army, no police force and have no migrants in or out of any of them, its nonsense.

w colonial owners i mean the actual pops who profit from stuff, there's no overseas ownership extracting wealth to the metropole, The factories only employ/pay pops in their state, and unincorporated states don't pay taxes, so when an opium plantation or an oil platform goes up, the colony itself becomes wealthier, the only benefit that the overlord has is the resources entering their market

there's zero reason to have non-annexed puppet colonies/dominion/protectorates of any kind because you can't build in them and they won't develop their key resources because theyre in your market with access to all of your primary manufacturing resources at the same cost as in your industrial core

they also usually have loads of free labor that can get qualifications for skilled industrial work way fast

tools and clothes and furniture are where the per-capita money is, so they build tooling clothing and furniture factories instead of the poo poo you actually want from them, steel & lumber gets shipped out of the British isles* & over to like, New Zealand to be made into fancy furniture for the wealthy new Zealander furniture tycoons (*using rail infrastructure all built in Hong Kong because rail transport capacity is market-wide. local avail. infrastructure affects market access but if it's above 0, there's no such thing as time or space or friction once any commodity is held by the Invisible Hand.
Linking the us west&east coasts, building the trans-siberian rail, cape to cairo? all meaningless w/r/t any gameplay mechanics, might as well stack 20 railroads in your capital lol)


once quinine gets developed by a GP, the interior of Africa & every tropical island, brunei, all of that gets eaten by them rapido

they could make it make sense with the right changes, but as-is it's an incomprehensible mess when it comes to historical accuracy, economic simulation, the diplomacy system is hollow (but potentially fixable)

the warfare is especially atrocious - you can't control where defenses are garrisoned, can't stockpile arms before a war because 1800s militaries functioned on Just-In-Time logistics, ofc, and also regularly executed several hundred thousand man multipronged amphibious invasions from ports 2500 miles away

a fleet of Napoleonic line ships will kill an ironclad dreadnought

it can't model the prelude, flashpoint, beginning, middle, end, nor aftermath of WWI - you can't join in to pre-existing wars, you can't demand disarmament, you can't give territory to other nations, you can't create a web of alliances and defensive pacts because the game only allows you to ally ONE country at a time and cobelligerents can't add wargoals

every minor colonial conflict between powers through the entire game turns into a fully mobilized full-scale war

there's zero economic volatility that isn't player or warfare induced, no booms, no busts, no investment, no interlinking of economic interests outside of trade deals or sharing the same market

building the panama or suez canal isn't really useful because you can't control who uses it, there's no tolls, and all it does is let you use slightly less convoys for distant trade deals but you have 25,009 surplus anyways if you built a canal & you don't even need them for intra-market transport because everything teleports

you can only build electrical power plants in the azores and use them to power the entire united states

iron mined in Ohio and coal from WV gets teleported to steel manufacturing in NYC and that gets teleported to DC to be built into tools that're used in hawaii to cut down trees for a furniture factory in liberia: indistinguishable wrt game mechanics from if they were all in the same state, except for which pops have jobs

vacuum economics

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Zeppelin Insanity posted:

It's even better. A lot of the devs are very proud and call it "Paradox's first materialist game".

The reddit complaints about landlords have also reached the C-levels of the company, and the executive class is having a witch hunt for communists because they're convinced there's a cabal of communists using Paradox to spread evil communist propaganda.

It is just genuinely stunning to me how completely and utterly they missed the point of colonialism. If you play as Indian minor, you end up only focusing on high end goods because that brings the most revenue and there is nothing stopping you, and you become the UK's main manufacturer of weapons\locomotives\etc, while it's the UK that ships raw resources to you.

when it first came out there was a game breaking bug because all industries would automatically increase laborer wages as much as they could while still making a profit and if you established wage laws, which raised the lowest wages up to the national median, it would cause most business to become unprofitable, go bankrupt and destroy your economy because your endless greed had betrayed the noble Job Creators

iirc going command economy also would instabankrupt you because you'd lose all the investment fund dividends from the caps & were forced to subsidize every single industry no matter how profitable it already was

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Lostconfused posted:

Population migration depends on migration laws. They're mainly there to prevent oppressed ethnic groups from fleeing your oppression. Otherwise migration is a pretty large mechanic to transfer population to underdeveloped low population provinces that contain valuable resources within your market.

Colonies are like other paradox vassal tags and pay a percentage of their income to the suzerian.

The reason to not annex is reduced infrastructure and efficiency penalties that a newly annexed territory will get. It's also going to be harder to develop based on racial and culture groups involved.

The war stuff you posted is just gobbledygook. I'm sure you're right about some stuff, but there's just so much stuff there that's wrong or nonsense that I don't even know where to start.

it's all true though, some of it might've gotten fixed in 1.3, but most of it hasn't at all

commodities teleport instantaneously within a market, including transportation, service, and electricity. shipping and logistics essentially do not exist no matter the distance or scale - you can supply a million man army in southeast Asia as long as you have naval superiority and enough clippers.

at the same time, if they get blockaded they'll 100% die over time even if it's 5,000 men on an unopposed front, and they're in a 16 million pop state in china - all of the native pops stay eating tho

you can simply destroy all of the barracks not in your capitol before a revolution to prevent them from having any troops because you always keep your capitol when one starts

if a country has its trade capitol cut off from access to the rest of the country, the rest of the country just starves to death if they don't have local food production & your GDP drops to 0 because market access is determined by access to your trade capitol - if this happens during a revolution or war you can't move it, you just die

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch
i think the historical accuracy & depth stuff can be fixed over time w/ patches/xpack/dlc but the completely dysfunctional warfare system, the total lack of peacetime military activity or purpose - your naval ships don't exist unless you have them deployed on a mission, you can't move where an admiral or general is headquartered, the military (and all the other IGs) never exhibit anything resembling agency, there's nothing that causes the caudillos or japanese/german military dictatorships or the ROC or any of it,

everything is just very sterile feeling, and then when it's irrational/unrealistic on top of that it just feels stupid

all of the nations themselves seem to have no meaningful feeling unique values, no historical friends or enemies develop and hardly exist to begin with. even as nationalism, fascism and socialism develop - you can become a total one party state-atheism communist dictatorship in say, Italy, and Austria, France, Britain, Germany, none of them give a gently caress lol. France goes fascist next to you? its all good, the Tsar and Queen Victoria got ur back comrade

poo poo the mexico-texas war the game opens up with is caused by disputes over stuff that can't actually occur in the game like neighboring market-external immigration into loosely controlled border territories: that can't actually happen in the game

its disappointing

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Zeppelin Insanity posted:

It's genuinely not. I know several Paradox developers and the C-level is absolutely mad.


lmao

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Frosted Flake posted:

It's just all kind of incomprehensible, having a passing knowledge of the Victorian British Army and Royal Navy. We're talking about 40% of the budget on cruisers on foreign stations, a third of each regiment in foreign garrisons, most military activity was peacetime and only understandable in terms of how far-flung it all was, the logistics, telegraph stations, coaling stations etc. required to support it all.
thats what really confuses me about that part

there's so much stuff they could've done to model the amount of material and people it took to bulld and sustain those enormous networks that allowed countries to reach out across the globe and smash anything on/near water

they could've done it in an interesting way and made it the whole extra branch of territorial expansion outside of domestic industrial development and colonization, and made it tie into both of those + warfare, it would make US, Britain actually play differently from Prussia, Russia

logistics only exist w/r/t water as clipper convoys to support naval invasions, there's no areas of strategic importance like fueling points, hardened ports/naval fortifications.
ships are literally reskinned ground units with strength bars and w/e, there's no concept of fleet-in-being, no choke points, your ships don't exist at port, losses are like w/e just wait and it grows back, seapower altogether is totally devoid of anything interesting, no flavor no events, nothing

i don't think they even have a logistics system for ships? there's no naval range for ships, having ports doesn't matter because you can't control where your ships are based and it also doesn't matter & you can only send them to your/enemy trade nodes and coasts

so much wasted opportunity

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Lostconfused posted:

The ships are based where you build naval bases. Works the same way as barracks. Probably not being able to transfer ships is a bit of a problem though.

that's what i mean, they could've had you build actual ships that had value the way they did irl, have peacetime deployment options for them w/ different effects that give you something to do with your massive navy so you remember it exists

they could've implemented supply chains and stuff to give a reason to control important territory - there's no reason to take any land outside of its material wealth, there's no reason for places like Singapore to exist, no reason to control the panama/suez canals, no reason to control the Pacific islands or any ports in Africa

Japan opens its markets up and can be trading the next day with everyone on the globe, as if it had always been there, at the same prices and level of access European great powers get
France will let its industry starve because China is importing all its surplus wood and steel

it's all riding off handwaved magic but then too detailed to not notice since the pop/industry consumption/output is so indepth and granular

its like if hoi4 just let ground units attack ->move across oceans or something it just ignores reality so much and also doesn't create an enjoyable substitute, that it breaks the whole model for me and since the game is built on that model it kinda breaks the game ig

i think they could fix it but it'll be a few years lol

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

1stGear posted:

At the risk of defending Nazi stuff, "how would you win the war that was historically lost" is usually a more interesting strategic problem than "how would you win the war that was historically won". From that perspective, it makes sense that there are more German campaigns that Allied ones. I've never gotten the vibe that the UoC devs are wehraboos.

people do the same thing w/ byz/rome/reformed paganism in eu/ck & pdox keeps putting in increasingly absurd byzantine restorations into every game.

in hoi4 you can be Greece, take the 'nople, reform byz, and then start fuckin conquering the Mediterranean renaming provinces to Dacia and Phrygia and stuff

can also be Italy and do the same

can also be Moscow and make orthodox patriarchy third rome

can also be Germany, overthrow Hitler w/ von Mackenson, reinstate the kaiser, and reform the holy Roman empire with an also restored Austro-hungarian empire

afaik you can have one of the first romes, the hre, and third rome all at once lol

kinda wanna do a byz game now I've never done it

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Frosted Flake posted:

I was reading something by a Byzantine scholar, I can't remember where, bemoaning this, as it's turned all online discussion of a small, and interesting, academic discipline into the worst people on earth playing dilettante.

lol i did not know that and its funny

old tiny ultraserious historian forum talking about the eastern roman empire's fall ultraboring grain production and seasonal weather in Anatolia discussion w/ 3 nerds nsisting if they'd used more cataphracts and hired urban to make an even bigger cannon and upgraded the Varangians' shields they could've routed mehmet and then push out to indis es pz - hell yea

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Mantis42 posted:

They balance it out by having the battles be shallower than usual. The games are still near the peak for the series but variety is overstated when you can lump most of the units into like 5 types and use them the same way on the same maps.

I'm struggling to think of a nonfantasy tw game that has more than about 5 types of units?

pretty much always skirmishers/archers, swordsmen, spearmen, cavalry, catapult/artillery
sometimes horse archers or w/e, chariots

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Tankbuster posted:

eh, there are optimal army compositions for each faction but where's the fun in that. Sometimes characters buff up meme units until they are incredible, sometimes you want to make a themed army. Sometimes your dinosaur carrying an orbital bombardment cannon nukes a heavy weapons regiment of rats with heavy gatlings.

there was a big mod i played that made the factions feel really diverse but it also like doubled the per unit size of orcs and tripled skaven so it ate performance up pretty hard if they were present

made dwarves and empire feel really good with firepower, lizardppl rip through stuff, prevents stacks of more than so many of a unit so no hypermeta armies of 17 gunners & 2 arty as skaven or all dark elf archers or whatever & the Lore powerful heries felt sufficiently strong, can't remember the name of it tho

added more campaign flavor than the game has initially too

it had some bloaty additions but altogether made it better, idk if they made it for wh3 but probably

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

StashAugustine posted:

are there any good rome total war 1 mods that don't massively over complicate the game

europa barbarorum is one of the best mods ever made
although it does (at least) quadruple the number of playable factions and makes battles take about 5x as long, breaks the AI and adds like a dozen gameplay mechanics and a completely rebuilt ui, lol

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

my dad posted:

Basic example would be that Zis155/Zil158 are the best early buses if you're going at full capacity. But if you're running half capacity or lower, suddenly the RF-977 microbus takes over. Assuming parking space and road capacity isn't a factor (not a trivial thing later on, but I'm assuming you're using the limited free parking options at first, and that vehicles are fairly sparse), 3 microbus are cheaper and can be more granular about delivering workers. Solid for importing workforce for construction projects. Hell, the personal car Trabi is unironically pretty decent at low intensity transportation. You could absolutely just hand these out to people in villages to let them make better use of spread out infrastructure - parking lots are cheap, and space isn't at a premium there.

----


sounds like it would be dope if that game supported imported designs from from https://www.automationgame.com ala beam.ng ( & if automation supported diesel engines )

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch
lol i just realized ideologically the two games are total opposites in every way

would still be neat tho

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

John Charity Spring posted:

Paradox have announced their new Civilization-style game by a studio called C Prompt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPy5nn7I8IA

seems like the main selling point is that advancement is based on Ages and you can advance into variant alt-history ages based on fulfilling prerequisites. which is kind of neat but also I'm very tired of Civ and all Civ type games

so essentially stellaris civtypes but for eras of human development? dope. i hope it doesn't have stellaris' economy/pop system

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

my dad posted:

There were two articles, the original and the response to it, which points out, with good arguments, that the original misrepresents the Soviet doctrine in some ways, including playing up the 'brute force' aspects of it. I know I have them both somewhere on my computer as PDFs, but it's in a hive of ancient folders I don't dare disturb.


I do however have to note that I have a comparable experience when playing Dominions, which is a stupidly complicated fantasy wargame with A LOT of poo poo to manage, and a delayed response time which means it's difficult to adjust plans on the move if you didn't already previously prepare some means of doing so. I'm not really up for a long writeup right now (there's a lot of stuff I've noticed over the years that I think would be pretty cool to talk about), but basically - understanding that you, yourself, are a resource and a game piece (even if you're not on the board), understanding that your opponent is also an enemy resource and game piece, and making plans that account for your ability to implement them, goes a long way. I have defeated people who are far better players of the video game Dominions 5 than I'll ever be (my total dominions 5 game count is 11 or 12 depending on how you count, and there are people who have played hundreds if not thousands of games e: ok, maybe not thousands unless we count dominions 3 and 4 games) by accounting for my flaws, not trying for "skilled" plays that i can't reliably pull off, and instead going with a robust plan that focuses on achiveving my goals without much in the way of subtlety but allows me to pounce on enemy mistakes once they make them. I've gotten a reputation for weird, tricky, 2 steps ahead plans mostly because of how spectaculalry things go wrong when they go wrong for the enemy. I don't need to predict where you are going to make a mistake if I have a reserve that can reach any place you could have made one.


e2: ugh, shortening the length of what I was trying to say but keeping the parts where i emphasize that i'm not saying this from a position of theorycrafter but as someone who has succesfully leveraged this to win games made this sound really high handed boasty. Apologies, it wasn't intended to sound like that, just take it as a "this actually works, in practice"

i totally get what you're saying
the psychological and mental elements of competitive strategy games are still really under recognized and interesting imo

its v noticeable playing sc2 since it's so fast paced and gives no time to recollect your thoughts so any mental fatigue tends to build up through a match and across matches (players will gg out of tournament matches before they're completely decided if they've got rounds after that and don't think they can win, to conserve their mental energy for the ones they think they can, it becomes a fully fledged third resource next to gas & minerals at the pro level)

all players have their kinda basic cycle of actions and decisions they'll run through about every ~10-30 seconds, unit production, scouting, macro stuff.

attached to that is the higher order decisionmaking and processing, where they think about what you're doing and what they should do.
its attached to it and not the other way around while playing because there's just too many things happening after the first few minutes, that build off decisions you made 30 sec, 1 min ago, 3 min ago etc. and by 4-5 minutes there's a new thing happening purely in your internal economic development.every 1-3 seconds, not including interactions with the other player. by about 7-8 minutes youll always have more than one thing per second happening. cues and timing and working off rote memorization/muscle memory are how someone navigates most of what's happening in the game, while making decisions on how to most efficiently direct those cycles of input and focus in response to the decisions made by the opponent
without executing those cycles, you can't execute any strategy, so the priority is always there, all of the more complex gameplay sprouts from it.

there's a rhythm to it created from the pace units/buildings build and upgrades complete at and how quickly resources are gathered, it speeds up and builds in complexity as the game goes on & the upper ceiling of potential performance continues rising until the end of the game.
it's executed in shorter intervals and becomes more fluid and adjustable the better a player is, that's where the really high APM in bw/sc2 pros comes from, the pros are splitting their focus in sub-second intervals continuously - but fundamentally it's no different from any other competitive player, its just being done more often and more efficiently, it's the only way to engage with the game mechanics competitively

you can really notice it between two grossly mismatched players, the better player will just intuit how often the other player is bouncing between things and will time their attacks & pokes ( which all cause the same big flashing red symbols on the map and voice yelling "WERE UNDER ATTACK", every time) to interrupt those processes specifically. less for the effect on the map than in the other player's head - by disrupting the other player's ability to smoothly make more dudes and to react without impacting their own + preventing the other player from taking the initiative, correctly paced intervals of disruption will do more damage than the actual damage done with the majority of attacks

past that, if a player can continue to interrupt that process to the point their opponent begins to feel like they're being outplayed, and/or is forced out of their own gameplan, they will inevitably start to make glaring mistakes, over respond to things, get tunnel vision, become overly passive or overly aggressive, and then fall apart - even if their actual position on the map isn't behind the other player's, and on paper they still stand to win, they're unable to find a way to reach the win condition.

the parts of their routine that aren't flexible aren't able to be changed while they're still playing, and the flexible parts aren't able to develop a new plan of action that compensates for the situation without mechanically degrading their own play so much they lose on unit/base count regardless of their strategic planning, since the plans come from the execution of what are essentially drilled exercises

the interplay of trying to break into and disrupt each other's mental process is where the real depth and interesting gameplay in those kinds of games is imo.
ppl talk about the micro bc its fast & intricate and flashy, but it only even matters bc the game requires that strategic distribution of attention-span and working memory across more things than can be flawlessly micromanaged and focused on at once

the neat part of it to me is that entire aspect of the game all lies outside of the actual ingame strategy & is independent of which race, map, playstyle, etc. it's almost entirely the exploitation of physiological and psychological responses to stimuli to keep a person off-balance, or breaking their will to fight by making them feel like it's a waste of energy to go on

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

skooma512 posted:

I did some reading about this guy due to this thread and lmao we just let the Nazis go. They also had a mutual aid organization for the Waffen SS and they just let them do it, not even as a honey pot to go send them to Israel or anything.

Guderian even sent a letter to Truman on Peiper's behalf, to which I was shocked because 1. Why wasn't he in jail/a mass grave 2. He was comfortable enough to send a letter to the American president which he likely read wow

They of course, didn't turn over Guderian to the Soviets.

He joined the US Army Historical Division in 1945 and the US refused requests from the Soviet Union to have him extradited.[84] Even after the war, Guderian retained an affinity with Hitler and National Socialism. While interned by the Americans, his conversations were secretly taped. In one such recording, while conversing with former Field Marshal Wilhelm Ritter von Leeb and former General Leo Geyr von Schweppenburg, Guderian opined: "The fundamental principles [of Nazism] were fine".

After the Second World War, the CIA was highly interested in using Guderian to rally the German right to the Atlanticist cause.[88]

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch
i will consider allowing it

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Megamissen posted:

you have to use a frontline to set up an offensive line, and using frontlines for your breakthrough divisions is not ideal
you can set one up, let the planning build up then delete it when you start the attack but i remember the planning draining very fast if you do
worth it for the start of an offensive i guess but after that better to just leave them un-frontlined and micro instead

you can micro w planning by connecting sequential orders and selectively activating them (hit tab when drawing offensive arrows to change their point of origin, hold alt to move their path around, shift or ctrl click to activate individual orders)

you can have a billion diff orders painted at the division level & only assign certain divs to each it doesn't have to be a full army

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch
corps is multiple divisions

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

StashAugustine posted:

Anyone played Nebulous? Still early access but might be interesting, basically trying to do "realistic" space combat with a vaguely readable UI

it's really fun but you basically need people to play with you and it's got a super steep learning curve especially bc of all the sigint stealth stuff. radar cross sections matter, armor angling and thickness matters, so stuff like having your fleet spread and angled 45° off of the enemy on approach, maneuvering to keep turret coverage or getting in under big guns w/ frigate/destroyers, waiting to make ambushes around asteroids, using jammers and decoys and stuff are all important, and the game doesn't teach you it just mentions tge mechanics

also bc of that and it being team-based, matches can go for 20 minutes and you might get wiped 2 min or 15 minutes in and have no idea what you did wrong or should've done

but the feeling of getting a clean jump on enemy ships and coring them w/ torpedoes before they can get a shot off is really satisfying

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

BearsBearsBears posted:

I've played it. It's interesting but there are a few things I don't like. It's too much of a "click ability off cooldown" game, there's too much mandatory micromanagement. I like the simulation of deep mechanics and the ability to micromanage but I really want to be able to give general orders and have them carried out to the best of the AI's ability and then have the option to micromanage when I really want to get into the nitty-gritty.

It is a very unique and interesting game. I'm hopeful they fix the problems that I have with it. There's also not a lot of content but already implemented modding so that's very nice.
there's not really much micro at all

it gives a ton of options but you don't have to use them all or rapidly change anything much, the ships take like 15 seconds to change directions or speed

the maneuver phase is all just positioning around asteroids/points and aiming radars, once when a fight starts you'll ideally already be set up where you wanna be since none of the ships are nimble or fast

its one of those games where the pros can make hardly any inputs but still win because they know which ones to make & have well composed fleets

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

BearsBearsBears posted:

It's been a while since I've played so maybe things got fixed or maybe I'm misremembering. The annoying things I'm remembering is jamming and missiles (with maneuvering and facing also occasionally being an unnecessary pain in the rear end). Especially jamming having to be manually activated against enemy missiles. My complaint wasn't so much about requiring a high APM as requiring unnecessary micro.

Edit: It looks like the devs added in some improved missile handling including mixed salvos. So maybe a lot of my missile complaints are fixed.

oh yeah the missile salvos were painful prepatch if you rolled w/ several different kinds after they added the designer

now there's a way to batch launch and specify the order they're launched so your nice ones aren't the first to enter pds range & stuff like that

maneuvering is way easier to do in the spacebar map, otherwise it's kinda hard to tell where the mouse is pointing in space when you're selecting headings and whatever

there's hotkeys for all those right click commands btw
if you use the lock/heading/move/orbit/roll ones & use shift to send group orders (incl stuff like speed, comms, ewar) it cuts pretty much all the repetitive clunkiness out

they could definitely improve the ui, i like the naval military style but five fuckin clicks to set a basic orbit order using the mouse is c'mon

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch
u check if its on with the app

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Tankbuster posted:

given that the recent warscape 2 editor happened because CA helped the modders, I would say no they weren't afraid of modders eating their lunch. Its absolutely something people who don't make mods say. Loading in custom models was a slightly more difficult method that was also eventually solved by modders. Its just that the modders who made the GCCM campaign map addons are far less active during warhammer 3. At the same time, the pipeline for adding custom animations/actual new sounds/UI elements etc is far more refined so people like making their bleep bloop models and putting them into the game.

Warhammer 3 has a giant more classic warhammer fantasy map focused on the old world and it works great. You absolutely see the lack of polish and doodads because instead of a team of professionals making it, its mostly just one guy who also likes modding bethesda games.


afaik a lot of the decline in mod support in games has been mostly pushed from the corporate level because robust mod supply makes it harder to make artificial markets with horse armor kinda dlc
kind of a minor distinction but imo makes sense if you look at how with most titles that've slipped backwards it's more of an absence of support or planned flexibility than intentional lockout

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

palindrome posted:

I wish they had made more Rise of Nations games, I really liked that one. RoN 6 with DLC would probably be rad if it existed, and in a world where RTS plus resource management was at all popular.

I think people like MOBAs because controlling multiple units is too hard, and hell I kind of agree. Micromanaging a full village of SCVs or villagers, plus a couple of scouting forces, plus an army, is really tough and demands a lot of attention. Doubly so if it is not turn-based. Easier to just be one guy, I can see why that's popular.
imo strategy games died out because the entire idea of organizing at scale and producing things inherently being at least as important of a step as using whatever is produced makes no sense in general under modern consumerism thought, there is almost nothing to relate it to in most jobs

factorio makes sense to consumerism brain: only reason you'd need a factory is because you wanted to make a factory, only reason you'd want to make a factory is to make the factory and one person can infinitely increase their productivity at ever increasing scale

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

AnimeIsTrash posted:

They're also way faster paced than most strategy game matches.

Imo strategy games died because they overcomplicated a bunch of things (adding hero units, skills, items, etc) and more importantly consoles became way more popular in the last 2 decades and there is no way you're playing brood war or something on one of those.


that wouldn't explain the huge shift from rts to kb/m moba around 2010ish hto
a bunch of the early streamers were sc/wc3 pros already n only moved because they couldn't make money anymore

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch
famines arent real

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Frosted Flake posted:

I would love to know the rationale for the focus tree system. Most other game systems are something like diegetic but how do you even explain the geist of a nation spending 30 day chunks radically transforming society, building factories out of nothing etc. ?

they had a design flowchart and then never made the design

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch
yeah focus tree's were a replacement for events that let people know how to get to desired outcome
they screwed up though by forgetting that means they shouldn't have tied in gameplay requirements and direct rewards because they don't make sense stuff should've only changed modifiers

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch
warno is tite but yeah the pact artillery and air powers so strong that i don't really know how nato is supposed to do anything
the rocket artillery also wipes like entire grids

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

StashAugustine posted:

Also I downloaded steel division 2 which I bought and never played and man its kinda overwhelming

use recon units ahead and to the sides concealed, they have camo, better spotting
riflemen are cheap use them to defend just stick them in tree lines or buildings, MGs at chokepoints
control points just give points they're not always the best places to fight from
dont try maneuvering your entire fighting force around to find & fight enemies & don't attack move everything towards cap points
you find the enemy with scouts and position your army to sweep over them, use tanks as fire support and for breakthroughs vs small arms, don't send tanks unsupported they'll die if sappers get close to them

always have command units near combat for the stat bonus and to call artillery

look at roads, elevation changes and choke points
controlling movement, take roads w/ mech, mot. & armored to establish encirclements, always use smoke on the offensive, advancing into fire is pointless without smoke

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

StashAugustine posted:

. On map artillery seemed kinda mediocre but maybe I was just using bad ones or I don't get how to spot for them.

make sure you have recon w/ radio + a commander unit at the artillery, start with 1-2 guns at the beginning and don't add any until they're all firing constantly
don't overlap more than 2 guns on a target except to get packed armor or buildings, landing direct hits and getting kills with artillery is less important than area denial & suppression it makes it way harder for them to defend since you can pinch their line in two at a bottleneck & concentrate force on the weak half before they can respond, force them to counterattack etc

FirstnameLastname has issued a correction as of 04:42 on Feb 18, 2024

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

The Chad Jihad posted:

I don't know why I keep buying eugen games. I have the fantasies of being the strategic mastermind and being all " tanks exist to be destroyed , I will advance with overlapping fields of fire and exert pressure at all points in the line simultaneously to exploit any breakthroughs" which translates to rapid paralysis and melting down as my precious units get shredded and I end up setting everything to AI aside from the air or maybe an artillery unit
you have to establish an order of operations like a math problem or it gets too complicated and cooks your brain, limit the scope and move from step to step

start from positioning & targeting your biggest guns and work your way down, plan for how to approach the first thing in your path and set yourself up to advance from that to the next thing
use infantry to hold ground and fill in where there's cover out at the forward edge, advance out in straight lines because the thing controlling your firepower & rate of advance is gonna be how fast replacements can get to the front

wherever the ground goes up or narrows will be harder to move through, wherever it goes down/widens are where you want to attack from

if you think about it like that the rest is learning unit specifics and the maps and the more specific opportunities & big plays will show up from there

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FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022


got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

Space game developed by a Navy officer is coming along p awesomely

its a really fun game

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