|
NeoRonTheNeuron posted:His ability probably takes him straight to the end. This sounds great for Mouse, but we have to remember that the rest of Snake's ability could force Hateful into last place. Meaning Mouse would die from riding along with Snake. Wait, doesn't Mouse's ability trigger after Snake's turn is done? If Snake ends up at the end one way or another, then Mouse would be along for the ride. If Snake's ability does what he says it does, Mouse will join him 5 spaces ahead. Either way it's a really good deal for Mouse I'd think?
|
#
¿
Nov 8, 2022 03:38
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 18, 2024 04:40 |
|
|
GiantRockFromSpace posted:Oh that's true. In that case Snake apparently likes Mouse enough to let her live with him, since even if everyone is taken to Snake's lane she'd move to the finish line with him. I mean she's also necessary for the stratagem to work on the first place but he could have manipulated people in other ways. From what he was saying, he needs her to stand still. He could have suggested that she confess and say nothing, I suppose, or hitch a ride with a player below him, but asking her to hitch with him is a lot more palatable to mouse. But yeah, the hateful thing throws a giant wrench into the works.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 9, 2022 01:36
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:So nobody mentioned the artifact that could save a life? Uh, guys? That thing sheep is holding? You can't use it without knowing that the person who you copy is safe. We know that Monkey is almost certainly one of the personalities (though which personality is up for debate - this could just be a clever ploy), but we don't know who the other is. Given that everyone at this stage is still just using RUN every round because they don't trust each other enough to sync up their powers properly, there's not a whole lot of trust to actually be had here.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 22, 2022 04:27
|
|
|
ZCKaiser posted:Going to be contrary and say save ourselves. We don't currently have any way at hand to save Ox and it's dark, this seems like a good way to get killed. Well, it was dark. Now we have the human torch!
|
|
#
¿
Nov 28, 2022 18:10
|
|
|
Mix. posted:okay, no update til next week, there's a really nasty ear/sinus bug going around the office at my new job and i managed to catch it, sorry about that. So we know the bear has the DISEASED personality. What does that tell us? In all seriousness, I hope you feel better soon. Take the time you need to get well.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2022 09:08
|
|
|
wologar posted:Dog is alive Not necessarily - Dog put a move in at some point in the round, but that could have been at the start of the round.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 17, 2022 05:20
|
|
|
Podima posted:Ox isn't on the list but man he's acting really suspicious this go-round. And how do we know that Mouse isn't above suspicion? "It could be you! It could be me! It could even be..."
|
|
#
¿
Dec 23, 2022 18:15
|
|
|
Mix. posted:this will not be the last time the gang does some really stupid stuff in response to a death, i can tell you that much There's also a huge amount of time pressure. This doesn't take place over days - it takes place over a matter of hours. Time spent bickering and planning is time not spent searching for the things that let you live, but time not spent bickering and planning allows the traitors to run unchecked. They could all sit down and basically play a game of Resistance, identify the traitors, and then all die anyway because they failed to secure a win condition in the interim.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 23, 2022 23:33
|
|
|
The only saving grace is that neither of the traitors know who the other traitor are (unlike Mafia/Resistance/etc.). There are a few possible outcomes from the first vote: Traitors are in opposite groups, both betray - vote count ties Traitors are in opposite groups, one betrays - one person gets 7 votes, and we know that at least one traitor is among the group of 5. Start offering up sacrifices from the group of 5 until the betrayal stops. Traitors are in opposite groups, neither betrays - vote count ties Traitors are in same group, both betray - one person gets 8 votes, and we know that both traitors are among the group of 4. Offer up sacrifices from the group of 4 until the betrayal stops Traitors are in same group, one betrays - one person gets 7 votes, and we know that at least one traitor is among the group of 5. Start offering up sacrifices from the group of 5 until the betrayal stops. Traitors are in same group, neither betrays - vote count ties Regardless, it's going to be a bloodbath. The above also assumes that the non-traitors coordinate, which is a tricky thing when their lives are literally on the line. Add to that that the prayer happens 3 times a round, and it's going to be nearly impossible for proper coordination to happen. And then god knows what happens if people start getting weapons.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2023 06:07
|
|
|
gegi posted:That tight time pressure makes it hard to plan or think straight. Yeah, it's what, 15 mins between each prayer? And they still have to go find minor trinkets to not die anyway. With the only information being the number of votes the "winner" gets, even having everyone vote for one other person isn't going to work. You don't know who wasn't voted for, so it's trivial to game the system. There is one other potential wrinkle - can votes be cast for dead people? That would be the ideal case, but even without external information, we can be almost certain that both traitors are alive, and the group is already down to 8 vs 2. And, of course, nothing stops a traitor from just shooting/stabbing/etc. someone else, as weapons are a thing.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 6, 2023 03:16
|
|
|
So given that Dog vouched for Bunny, and we're far enough along that the traitors should have figured each other out, I wonder how long it will be before people twig onto Bunny. He did sort of shed some suspicion, but Dog was very, very clearly going to die, so Bunny was just joining onto the obvious bandwagon - it doesn't exactly give him a lot of credit. Still, even with one traitor down, if Bunny controls enough tablets, he wins by default. Morbid question, but when someone uses a dead person's tablet, does that reactivate the collar, or is it a device that only ever activates once?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 12, 2023 01:31
|
|
|
NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Bunny isn't going to able to make it unless the group starts minor trinketing right away. Fortunately, with Dog defeated, they can do so safely. Unfortunately, he has also to survive two more votes. If Bunny can use dead player tablets, then it stands to reason that he could have them minor trinket, or have Rooster boost him, or whatever. There's also a point where he could just kill people directly instead of relying on the prayer gimmick, though that would require getting rid of Horse first.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 12, 2023 18:04
|
|
|
dervival posted:haha did Bunny seriously congratulate the town when they hit the other Yeah, He and Dog were definitely the most active participants in everything. It's tricky to find that too suspicious though - if it's a character's route, they kind of naturally need to be present since they have the narrative focus. It's a tough line to walk in routes where the traitor(s) aren't immediately obvious because that can give the game away.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2023 01:49
|
|
|
Arzaac posted:Jesus. Some of the routes are pretty sympathetic to the traitors; Bunny just doubles down on being a horrible piece of poo poo. It's worth taking another look at Dog and Bunny's interaction in Dog's route. Dog didn't seem to have a whole lot of sympathy for someone he knew before all of this started, and someone who (most likely, though I don't know if we know if they were on the farce at the same time) was a former coworker.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 17, 2023 13:28
|
|
|
dervival posted:wait, did something happen to Mouse offscreen? She didn't die, but she's not in the list of escapees... Mouse is officially Rat, according to Brian. She just changed it to Mouse because nobody wants to be called a rat.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 26, 2023 23:37
|
|
|
biosterous posted:rat is also not on that list of escapees, though Ah, I see what you're referring to - Brian did explicitly say that rat made it to the end, and Mouse does say that ten people survived (including her), so it makes sense that Arzaac posted:Mouse/Rat is not on that list of escapees because she's the one doing the narration and didn't include herself. is the reason that she didn't include herself in the list.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2023 00:01
|
|
|
Sketchie posted:The heck? I actually laughed at this. I didn't think Mouse was that oblivious. Their plan would have worked better if they were both a little bit more hoarse.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2023 05:47
|
|
|
The problem he has is that he is by far the biggest threat. Any route that involves a physical fight has to involve taking Horse out by surprise, or he just stomps them into the dirt. Narratively, he needs to be incapacitated in a way that someone like Rooster does not.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2023 21:22
|
|
|
There's a lot of stuff in specific routes that strains credulity (Pig's super magic chemicals and shift from useless to a murder machine, Snake's whole ability to think up how to set up the locked room stuff in a few minutes with no glaring flaws, Monkey's ability to basically mind control people, etc.), but good lord does Horse's route go above and beyond. He has a hell of a lot of plot armor, from the bullet lodging itself in the barrel of the gun, to being able to shrug off multiple gunshot wounds and blows to the head, to somehow deliberately blocking a shot that went through someone else that was not only blocking his line of sight, but their body would have altered the trajectory of the bullet. The author really should have reined in some of the extreme bullshit that happens here and kept the fights significantly more grounded.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 18, 2023 07:42
|
|
|
Mix. posted:
Should be Bunny here, not Sheep. I'm also slightly confused as to why Sodium wouldn't work here. You'd think that having a powder that would explode and catch fire would also work pretty well to stop him? And then there's the fact that if you've got a high enough concentration of peroxide, that poo poo burns just fine on its own - you don't need to add vinegar at all. It's an incredibly strong oxidizer and will ignite cloth without much issue with a decently high concentration (such as the sort of concentration you'd find in a chemistry lab, rather than as a medical supply or sold over the counter). I used to work with 69% peroxide (70% was considered to be hazardous and need special shipping conditions), and you would get a chemical burn from just a drop of it getting onto bare skin. All of the cloth in our lab coats and the cloth we used to clean up spills was specifically ordered so that it wouldn't catch fire if we got peroxide on it.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 21, 2023 01:32
|
|
What bright side? Tiger and Sheep just got murdered! There is no bright side to this!
|
Sodium reacts extremely vigorously with water. It does so to the point that it's usually stored in oil because even the water vapor in the air is an issue. To be fair, that could be the reason they went with peroxide, but just the idea that Horse's face has moisture on it at all is enough to cause a big problem. Of course, the larger issue is that since it's a metal or a metal powder, Horse would notice it, while peroxide is colorless and odorless, so all it would register as is wet (and potentially as a chemical burn, depending on concentration).
|
|
#
¿
Feb 21, 2023 05:03
|
|
|
Rooster was a traitor during Desperate/Content. We also had Pig and Monkey both be traitors during Desperate/Content. Sheep and Horse were both traitors during Determined/Selfless, and Tiger outed herself as Selfless. Her route may or may not involve Selfless (as we know Horse finds and uses the knife if he's Determined, and that starts a whole thing). My point here is that just because there are 12 animals, and presumably 6 pairings of traitorous personalities (I don't think we've seen an instance where the pairs have been different), that doesn't mean that each pairing of personalities is going to show up 2 times.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 21, 2023 06:29
|
|
|
I don't see that many parallels between Horse and Ox - Ox is much more of the thinking type - closer to Mouse in that regard. Ox is also not on the list of people who are good at fighting, and only really potentially beats out Sheep/Pig/Mouse/Monkey by virtue of being physically larger. Even Rooster probably has him beat. Horse, on the other hand, is slid to the highest on the scale for physical violence, and on the lower end of the scale for puzzle solving. He's far from dumb, but his mental skill set doesn't lend itself well to this situation unless it involves combat.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 23, 2023 00:41
|
|
|
Marluxia posted:we can generally assume at this point Rooster is dumb. I think we can more than just assume that. The question is if he has the DUMB personality.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2023 23:11
|
|
|
Mix. posted:
Just an absolutely wonderful line.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 3, 2023 04:48
|
|
This was a perfectly good investigation. It was fine. What happened?
|
NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Rooster really is the best! The prayer stuff made it easy to do though. It's a hell of a lot harder for that to happen when people have to actually do the deed with their own hands. That's not to say that people won't do it, as we saw with Rooster, but non-traitor kills seem pretty rare outside of him.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2023 04:31
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:Eh, it was a prosecuting lawyer talking to a student looking to become a defense attorney. Doing a back and forth on their opinions of the legal system didn't feel too out of place and a lot of the stiff conversation felt like how Ox is characterized as a bit of a stiff person. Same, plus Mouse is fishing for any reason to condemn Ox to not feel as bad about stabbing him. It should absolutely be stiff, because Mouse isn't having a normal conversation where she is relaxed, and Ox is trying to figure out who the murderer was and is increasingly becoming more suspicious of Mouse.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2023 20:34
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:Not impossible I guess for Rooster to be speedy enough to kill Ox, cut Monkey free and run back, but that also means that Monkey would be... pretending to hold the cut ropes tight enough to keep up the facade of being tied up. That facade would drop the moment somebody lets her out to go vote though, and that happened with some regularity. And Rooster would absolutely not have known when it would be safe to cut the ropes in such a brazen fashion. And since Monkey was tied up again by the person who set her free, there's nothing consistent in the way she was tied up either. There could have been something fishy with the ropes, but the same ropes were used in multiple routes to tie people up, so that's fairly unlikely.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2023 23:14
|
|
|
GiantRockFromSpace posted:Guys, I'm starting to think Ox miiiight be a corrupt prosecutor. Just maybe. Perhaps, and we'll likely learn more in his route, but that's not how I view what he's saying here. He's emotionally intelligent enough to know that Tiger needs some support, and also is pragmatic enough to understand that while she did technically kill two people, they were not only dead folks walking, but were also actively engaged in trying to kill everyone else. Tiger is certainly no hero, but her actions very likely saved a number of lives. And he's right, this isn't a cut and dry case where she just snapped and randomly killed people. Dragon attacked her first, and Snake deliberately goaded her for unfathomable reasons that I'm sure made sense to him at the time. Also, is it just me or is it incredibly funny that they didn't check Snake's tablet until after they talked about what to do with Tiger? You'd think that would be the first priority for Ox or Bunny to pick up the tablet before heading back to the cafeteria.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2023 00:46
|
|
|
For grins, I'm going to summarize the "canon" ending of each of the routes we know so far, as well as the dialogue from, presumably, Red, about the route. I'm not including all the dialogue, just the stuff about their personal thoughts on what happened. Prologue: R: Do you believe in destiny? G: Huh? Where did that come from? R: Just humor me. Do you believe in destiny? G: Uh, I guess that depends on what you mean. R: Perhaps I should ask in a less obtuse way. Do you believe that your future is fated, bound to happen no matter what? G: Of course not! The only one in charge of my life is me and me alone! R: Hm. Well, I for one disagree. The belief that we have any control over what will happen is simply the arrogance of humans. R: I suppose you would call me a 'predeterminist.' G: I'm not familiar with the term. R: Basically, it's the belief that since everything in the past already exists, and everything in the world moves on a cause-and-effect basis, everything in the future has to happen. The world's deck is shuffled, as it were, and all that's left is to deal out the cards, one by one. R: Any semblance of 'free will' that we have, well, it's more of a coping mechanism than anything else. Your genes and history were decided without your input, and like it or not, those two factors really make the decisions. G: drat. That's a bleak way of looking at things. R: I actually think of it as a good thing. Whether or not I'm 'in control' of myself doesn't really matter to me. I'd easily trade that away for the benefits 'predetermination' provides. G: Benefits? R: Another question: have you ever heard of Laplace's Demon? Actually, seeing as you hadn't even heard of 'predestination', I suppose the answer is rather obvious. R: Laplace's Demon is a hypothetical created by Pierre-Simon Laplace in 1814. This Demon of his is quite the clever creature: it knows the precise location and moment of every single atom in the whole wide universe. As if that wasn't enough, this demon's so clever that based on the information it has, it can predict where those atoms were and where they'll go. R: If this Demon really existed, it could accurately recount every single historic event, regardless of location or time period. And, if it existed, it could predict every single thing that was yet to come with 100% accuracy. G: I'm not seeing those benefits you were talking about. R: Well, obviously this example is extreme. But in a more controlled setting, geniuses can function much like Laplace's Demon. Through careful analysis of the past, of cause and effect, probable futures can be gleaned. R: Think... Think... Humans are no more than fleshy wind-up toys. R: Think... Think... Peer into the coding, the innermost mechanics, the clockwork within their minds. R: Think... Think... Become a demon. Play with toys. Control the future. Two - Mouse's Route Alive: Mouse, Maybe Rooster Dead: Dragon, Monkey, Ox, Bunny, Horse, Pig, Tiger, Sheep, Dog, Snake, Maybe Rooster R: We're not looking for a total slaughterhouse like this – the less victims the better. There should be a better way. Four - Tiger's Route Alive: Mouse, Ox, Tiger, Bunny, Sheep, Horse, Rooster, Monkey, Dog, Pig Dead: Dragon, Snake R: In that scenario, likely the only victims will be Dragon and Snake. An almost flawless victory. Theoretically ideal. However, this scenario is highly unstable. Let's find a more solid path to walk. Five - Bunny's Route Alive: Mouse, Dragon, Monkey Dead: Ox, Bunny, Horse, Rooster, Pig, Tiger, Sheep, Dog, Snake R: However, any race where the Prayer Statue is activated is a race which will end incredibly bloodily. That's not the story we're aiming for. Seven - Snake's Route Alive: Mouse, Ox, Bunny, Horse, Rooster, Monkey, Pig Dead: Tiger, Dragon, Sheep, Dog, Snake R: There are certainly far worse outcomes, but this path is a bit too unpredictable and deadly. Surely Mouse can make better decisions than this, right? Eight - Horse's Route Alive: Mouse, Sheep, Rooster, Monkey, Pig, Ox Dead: Horse, Tiger, Dragon, Snake, Bunny, Dog R: Better paths definitely exist. Nine - Sheep's Route Alive: Mouse, Ox, Bunny, Snake, Monkey, Rooster Dead: Tiger, Dragon, Dog, Horse, Pig, Sheep R: From the start, this line of action may be too unreliable. Ten - Monkey's Route Alive: Mouse, Dog Dead: Ox, Tiger, Bunny, Dragon, Snake, Horse, Sheep, Rooster, Pig Missing?: Monkey (note that her collar activated in Pig's route, as there was blood on the neck of the body, so how far could she have gone?) R: More to the point, there are too many key sacrifices with this line of play. Not to mention... it's all a bit much, no? On the whole, there's not much potential with this traitor pairing. Jack - Rooster's route Alive: Mouse, Dog, Snake, Tiger, Sheep Dead: Dragon, Rooster, Ox, Horse, Bunny, Monkey (executed offscreen by collar), Pig (Desperate, executed offscreen by collar) R: Revenge is messy. The true path should be clean. Queen - Dog's route Alive: Mouse, Sheep, Monkey, Rooster, Pig Dead: Dog, Bunny, Dragon, Ox, Horse, Tiger, Snake R: This isn't a particularly attractive route to choose. King - Pig's route Alive: Mouse, Sheep, Rooster, Dog, Bunny, Dragon, Ox, Horse, Tiger, Snake Dead: Pig, Monkey (executed by Rooster and Bunny) R: In all likelihood, this plot will be thwarted, and a majority of the cast will be spared. This scenario makes fulfilling the objective particularly challenging. And cleaning up after the fact will be... difficult. No, this may be a good enough ending for Mouse, but it won't do for me. Of note, Tiger's route is the most palatable to Red thus far. Pig's route is said to be good for Mouse, but is not acceptable to Red. We still have two more routes to go, so we'll have to see how the commentary lines up after those, but it is interesting to see.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2023 01:42
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:Good to know you're still trash, Gerry. From that update: "Then with a vote of 9 to 3, we'll let Tiger be the guard." Mouse would have just made it 8 to 4.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2023 08:07
|
|
|
NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Oh well. My attempt at charting will have to remain incomplete for now. Already one of my predictions has been deemed inaccurate! At the end of each route, the narration explains what is required for that route to happen. For Dog's route for instance: "If the Second Caw is found in the first three rounds, Dog will be assigned a role that forces him to act. If a man of his talents and temperament finds the Taming Whip, he will definitely make good use of it." And for Bunny's route: "If the Second Caw is found in the first three rounds, Bunny will be assigned a role that forces him to act. If he finds the Prayer Statue, he will definitely use it." Should help your flow charting out.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2023 07:16
|
|
|
dervival posted:Man, Ox really isn't that bright, is he? To be fair, he's under a tremendous amount of stress and time pressure at that point in time. Nobody is at their best in this race. Ox especially strikes me as someone who is more methodical and tends to take their time to check all the angles before acting, and he's not allowed to do that under these circumstances.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 7, 2023 17:43
|
|
|
Elite posted:So it’s: Interestingly, Brian chooses the groups, near as I can tell. This particular group puts Snake/Dragon together, and we know they share a pair of traitor personalities. We (presumably) don't know if the groups would have been different if the traitors would have been different. Also I think if both traitors were in the same group then everyone else is screwed because if that group either wins or loses, everyone else dies. Also worth noting that if one non-traitor group can sprint to the end, then they will die because Dog's group will win. Hell, Dog's group has Rooster, and can just artificially bump other people ahead if necessary.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 9, 2023 00:24
|
|
|
mycelia posted:Pity Snake's on the other team, he's great at making locked room solutions in a pinch. Just give Sheep an ice cube and she'll figure it out.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 13, 2023 16:15
|
|
|
It makes sense though - Horse is aloof and keeps to himself. He's also not that great with strategy or puzzle solving, and is the most physically imposing by a large margin. From a writing perspective, he's important because if he catches wind that someone is a traitor, he will kill them. You can't do physical combat without a plan for mitigating Horse. But his general lack of engagement with puzzles and strategy, combined with his taciturn nature means that he's just not going to have much presence most of the time. He's an obstacle more than a character to be interacted with, and that's fine.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 13, 2023 21:05
|
|
|
Rooster's dead. I'm pretty sure that means that Dog and Pig are already doomed. The coup here for Mouse's team is to kill Dragon, as that means that they win essentially by default after one or two rounds pass.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 18, 2023 02:48
|
|
|
Ox dies in Monkey's route as well - he is killed by Rooster, who is then killed by Snake.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2023 03:27
|
|
|
Junpei posted:So that's all of our 12 member's routes completed. Who, right now, is your favorite? Snake, because too often in games like this there's the "smart" character who can do no wrong. Snake, on the other hand, is clever, has an extremely relevant background (former military), knows that he has some limitations, but also is completely blind to several others. He's just a fun character to have around, whether you're rooting for him or against him, it is cathartic to see him get his comeuppance. He's also relevant in a lot of routes as a dispenser of information, so even when his screentime is marginal, he still contributes in a way that makes the player think.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 21, 2023 00:58
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 18, 2024 04:40 |
|
|
Elite posted:Most Dislikable: Bunny. He’s definitely the most dislikable but I do think he does a good job at being dislikable. Agreed. Bunny is written well as a character the player wants to hate, and is an excellent representation to the player of the crooked cops on the force. He's extremely manipulative, quick to jump to violence as a solution, especially when it's not strictly necessary, and his primary motivation is to get himself out of the situation alive, drat the consequences. One thing that's neat is that because this isn't a VN where the player character is time traveling or otherwise experiencing each scenario, and each scenario is experienced fresh from the characters' perspective, you can see how Bunny's manipulation is fantastic for a one-off trust game, where if you he were to have to play multiple rounds, he'd almost certainly change tactics.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 21, 2023 20:48
|
|