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Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Lol, literally the NSW Police Commissioner, "it's actually very brave of me not to have seen the footage of my officer tasering a 95 year old."

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Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Yeah, it made the national news, at least on the abc.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

BrigadierSensible posted:

You do wonder what he was hoping would be the end result of the case.

He knows he did the war crimes, he knows there were witnesses, he knows that the reporting was accurate and researched. So I suppose he was hoping they would fold immediately.

In his mind they probably don't really count as war crimes, and it was unfair of the media to report on them.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Bucky Fullminster posted:

It's full steam ahead with the Sydney Cycle Super Highway.

Honest question Bucky, what do you hope to achieve with your public infrastructure essays? Like, I doubt you'll find many disagreeing with you here on the principle of better bike networks, but it isn't going to solve anything posting them here. Are you trying to workshop them before presenting them to your local council/state member?
It's not that we can't discuss infrastructure improvements here, it's just that the sheer volume of words you produce is exhausting for anyone else to engage with.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Bucky Fullminster posted:

Basically, yeah. Gauge reactions and appetite, get some new insights or critiques, find things that may have been overlooked, etc. Interested to know if and how this might affect people's transport habits.

And that was the bullet points! It was like 100 words, I think that's as economical as it can be.

It's not just the number of words, it's the content. You're asking people to give you free labour by reading, processing and critiquing your proposals, and none of us are being paid for it. You care deeply, which is great! But no one else here is as invested as you, and your lack of understanding of existing power structures, planning rules and legacy infrastructure makes it much more effort to explain where you are wrong than it takes for you to post your ideas.

If this is something you really are passionate about, you should get involved with community action groups or your local council and learn more about how and why decisions are made. There are a host of experts and groups already in place that spend all day working on these things, and it isn't a lack of ideas holding them back from unifying all Sydney bike routes.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

In non-tedious bike infrastructure news, cash rate has been raised again:
https://twitter.com/p_hannam/status/1665939277451268096?t=StFdfXEHdb4UaVz-jbV4SA&s=19

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

birdstrike posted:

I’ve sent the following route proposal to all levels of government multiple times but no action taken as yet:



Do you think making the random lines green would help?

What if we built a mass logistics centre in the cats head? I know there are existing warehouses in other locations, but I had a dream once where all of the warehouses were in a single location and passenger rail lines serviced them, so I think it would work.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Lidia Thorpe has accused Liberal Senator David Van of sexually assaulting her. It was a pretty dramatic revelation on the floor of the senate no less.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

hooman posted:

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol 2023 - gently caress off Pauline

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

I'd never heard of Van before yesterday, but apparently he growled at Lambie last year too, sounds like a great guy.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

hambeet posted:

Hey all I’m running a book on what the response will be to the above, so start placing bets

What's the payout for something about strawmen?

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Also all the transphobia. But they're just asking questions!

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

BrigadierSensible posted:

I knew FriendlyJordies was an ALP shill, but didn't know he was a TERF.

Do you have details?

Sorry! Not Jordies as far as I'm aware, but media watch. Should have been clearer.
Media watch has had several episodes devoted to detransitioning and calling out other media for not platforming terfs.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Megillah Gorilla posted:

Holy poo poo that's bad.

Stuart Littlemore must be rolling in his grave.

Yeah, it's pretty poo poo. There's been more recent stuff, but I haven't watched it in a long time. I do remember this though, where they went after the loving AIDS council awarding the ABC for being a good workplace for queer people. Being trans and existing is too political, obviously.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Bucky Fullminster posted:

The thing about the correlation to distribution of actual bears is a wild and wonderful coincidence.

I mean, not really. People who have never seen a bear are unlikely to name a constellation after one.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Bucky Fullminster posted:

The constellation was named independently of polar exploration, and the Arctic was named after the constellation.

The fact that there are bears there has nothing to do with it, and the fact that there are no bears in the Antarctic has nothing to do with its name meaning "not-bears".

People who lived in bear regions named a constellation they could see after bears. The bear constellation can be seen from bear filled regions. The Arctic was named after the constellation that can be seen there, that overlaps with bear regions, hence its name. It's really not that complicated.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Bucky Fullminster posted:

If polar bears didn't exist, the Arctic would still have the same name.

And if those stars looked more like a bird, that region would be called Aviatic or something.

e - "Arktos Megale" as Ptolemy called it, or Ursa Major as we know it now, wasn't named after a polar bear, nor by people who live in polar region.

There are many species of bear that live in many different regions.

OK, let's try this one last time.
Yes, the region was named after the constellation. But what was the constellation named after? Bears.
The Greek word ἀρκτικός arktikos, means near the bear and also means to the north, because the bears were in the north, and the vaguely bear shaped constellation was in the north. Even if bears' range stopped just north of Greece, the important idea for the Greeks was that bears and the bear constellation were north of them. It's not a coincidence that bears are found in the areas that the constellation can be seen from, it's why the constellation was named such and why groups other than the Greeks continued to use the name.

It's like if Australia was called emu after the constellation (anti-constellation?) and then we were surprised that there were emus there. People name constellations after things their culture has a concept for, even if they're mythological. Greeks weren't naming stars after emus because they had no idea what an emu was.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Bucky Fullminster posted:

It is a coincidence that there is a unique sub-species of bear that happens to live in a completely different environment to the one the greeks or romans saw their bears in, yes.

And it is also a coincidence (notwithstanding the real geographic barriers) that the almost identical environment at the opposite end of the earth does not have those same animals, while also having a name which literally translates to "those animals aren't here".

Greeks had no idea about polar bears. The fact they live there is a coincidence.

They didn't know about polar bears, but they did know about bears, who have a mostly northern distribution. Hence why bear in Greek also has connotations of north, hence the constellation found in the north, hence the geographic area.

It is a coincidence that there is a specific species of bear that is mostly confined to the Arctic circle, but not that there are bears there at all. Brown bears, the ones named arctos, are most commonly found in the Northern latitudes, including near the Arctic.

I don't think the Greeks knew of any southern hemisphere bears, maybe through stories through the silk road, but not first hand.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Coward posted:

Quick, there’s not much time to make sure bear is the biggest in the word cloud for the month!

Public bear transport

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Just been busy working in the bear industry

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Lol, now Lidia Thorpe is supporting a legislated voice and calling Albanese a coward for not committing to defy the referendum vote.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Cartoon posted:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-12/lidia-thorpe-backs-indigenous-voice-outside-referendum/102966682

There is an unhelpfully large dollop of the perfect being the enemy of the good here but she's far from being an idiot.

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/radionational-breakfast/lidia-thorpe-on-the-voice-and-treaty/102012582

Take 13 minutes to listen to her reasoning and thoughts.

Yeah, nah. If she honestly expects that a no result is going to lead to better outcomes for indigenous Australians in any way, she's an idiot. And if the Voice is too surface level and inconsequential, then having it only legislated weakens it further. The right will use a no result as a weapon to beat down any and every proposed improvement for years to come, including a legislated Voice, let alone a treaty.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Cartoon posted:

Hold on there. We don't get to live in a 'what if?' universe. Thorpe (as an indigenous voice) advised not to do it, because of the negative consequences you are now stating

She speciically said we were not ready for a 'voice' referendum because there needed to be a true telling process first. This wasn't for idiotic or unthinking reasons. It was specifically to turn down the right wing backlash.

Now we are in the post 'I told you not to do it because it would be a disaster' world (She [idiotically, apparently] mentions the increase in indigenous suicide rate since the start of the voice campaign) she is asking for a positive response to a negative outcome. I don't think it's a winner but calling her an idiot is both uncalled for and ignores most of what she is saying.

Ignoring an indigenous voice? Colour me shocked. Also

None of the above is Thorpe's doing. Someone else gets to be the 'idiot' here.

I never said she was an idiot for correctly calling out the rise in racism as a result of the referendum, but she is an idiot for thinking that a no result will lead to improvements and campaigning for that outcome. And she's doubling down by now coming out and supporting a legislated voice, which by her own logic won't deliver the outcome she wants. Either a voice is an important measure or it's not, either it needs to come after treaty or it doesn't, you can't have it both ways.

I'm not ignoring indigenous voices, I'm listening to them. The Statement from the Heart is a very clear, straightforward and consultative declaration from indigenous Australians that laid out the Voice as a concrete step to improve outcomes. Voting 'progressively' no to that simple request is dumb and I'm not going to pretend it isn't.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Voted Yes and got my democracy sausage. Only Yes campaigners were there, and the sausage people were playing You're The Voice quite loudly, but I do live in the dirty leftist Canberra bubble.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

gently caress the rest of the country, the ACT secedes.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Eediot Jedi posted:

I'm so glad albo died on this hill

Yeah, gently caress him for listening to the Statement from the Heart. How very dare he.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

hooman posted:

He has shown no intention of acting on treaty or truth and composed the (failed) voice in the weakest possible form.

gently caress him for not listening to it.

Sure, go after him for that, but the Statement listed Voice first for a reason. And you can definitely blame him for running a poo poo campaign. But to blame him for giving this a go is nonsense. If we can't even get a weak Voice passed, there basically no chance of Truth or Treaty.

ColtMcAsskick posted:

Don't want to discount the obvious racism but the polling from NT is currently emphatically No, to the point I don't think you can wave it away as racism...
Yeah, it will be interesting to see a booth by booth breakdown.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

lih posted:

i voted yes but one of the incredibly stupid things about this was that it still could have been easily wound back by conservatives. the make-up of the voice was to be determined by legislation, so a future coalition government could have just replaced any democratic representative structure set up by labor with one where the minister hand-picks the members. hardly much different to just abolishing a representative body all together.

Eh, yes they could, but something being in the constitution makes it harder to get rid of and replace with a weaker form, even if the exact structure isn't described by the constitutional amendment. Institutions have a "stickiness" and the more formalised their existence, the stickier they are. A constitutionally enshrined Voice would have had some Libs be reluctant to replace it wholesale. Whether a hypothetical Dutton government would be able to overcome this barrier is a difficult question to answer.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

lih posted:

all they'd have to do is find some hint of scandal as a pretext, just like when they abolished atsic. if you really think that some hypothetical dutton government wouldn't do what it wanted with the voice, just because its existence is in the constitution, then that's incredibly naive.

Then I guess we can't do anything as Dutton can just legislate it away. Might as well lie down and wait to die. No improvement is possible apparently!

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Also, that's not how our constitution works, and never has. It doesn't lay out that much detail for any of its provisions, that's for parliament to describe.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Budzilla posted:

I got summons to do jury duty in 3 weeks time. Any suggestions to keep my sanity for 4 weeks?

If it's anything like mine years ago, good luck. I was elected foreman despite only being 20 at the time because I was the only one who had paid any attention to the instructions we were given by the judge. The rest of my group were all retirees with nothing better to do with their time and who didn't pay much attention to things like evidence.

It might help to focus on being potentially the only bulwark against a jury voting by its gut instead of the case presented to them. But that might just break your sanity sooner.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

The progressive no may not have been the reason for the no victory, but it certainly helped provide cover for racists, and makes it harder to openly confront the systemic problems that defeated the voice.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010


Simply amazing.
https://bsky.app/profile/patrickkeneally.bsky.social/post/3kchmheotof2f

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Bald Stalin posted:

This right here shows, sadly, that you really didn't pay attention nor learn anything at all from the revolutionaries despite the attempts to spoon feed it to you. Instead of this lighting a fire in your heart to get out there and organize and educate yourself further, you're just going to do nothing? Join us, do something tangible! Don't listen to these do nothing just vote status quo libs, listen to the revolutionaries that were the real force for change in history and join us. Organizing, serving the people, building a revolutionary movement that will drive change is how things have and will improve.

If we couldn't even convince a majority of Australians to support a milquetoast voice, how are you going to convince them to support a revolution that threatens their position and status?
Not to mention that Australia has actually succeeded in the past at delivering progressive change through voting, not revolution, with the enfranchisement of women and Indigenous Australians as key examples.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Bald Stalin posted:

You don't convince the masses to 'do a revolution'.

Those weaker minor reforms happened because radical grassroots revolutionaries organized around and demanded far more. Not because the ruling class decided to let you have them on a whim out of the goodness of their heart.

Hmm, so something like indigenous leaders from across the country coming together to draft a proposal for reform, like some sort of statement from the heart?

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

thatbastardken posted:

I don't know if a revolution is possible in Australia under current conditions. Things are too good for too many people to want to risk everything by overthrowing the government, and the people who are hurting are so widely dispersed that forming a core of revolutionaries faces insurmountable logistical and security problems.

is the idea to form local cells and be ready to take advantage of an as yet unpredicted social crisis?

I think it involves cosplaying as radicals while voting with Pauline Hanson and Peter Dutton.

Non Compos Mentis posted:

what does the thread think about moustaches on buses?

I'm anti, if I can't grow a good one, why should a bus be able to flaunt theirs?

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

Bald Stalin posted:

Thr statement from the heart came from the ruling classes hand picked compradors. I can link you to further reading on it if you're genuinely interested in learning more.

And yet was massively supported by indigenous voters? If the proposal was so terrible, why did it actually have grass root support among the directly affected community? Sorry ATSI folk, you aren't revolutionary enough for Bald Stalin.

I'm also curious what more you think the 'far more' that female and indigenous enfranchisement campaigners were demanding that forced the government to acquiesce. The Suffragettes were certainly perceived as radical in their time, but their demands were actually pretty consistently focused on achieving simple democratic equality through a peaceful vote. They certainly weren't trying to revolt against the democratic system, they wanted to be a part of it. Same with indigenous suffrage.

I don't think you even know what revolutionary means.

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

BrigadierSensible posted:

The way they have been using it in this thread regarding The Voice vote is "I'm more ideologically pure than you, therefore a better person."

While voting with loving Dutton. If that's what is required to be a revolutionary, then I want nothing to do with it.

freebooter posted:

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1718590194402689324

Putting aside his demonisation of asylum seekers for a moment and just focusing on general immigration... didn't Howard more or less contentedly oversee the same 30 or 40 year bipartisan neoliberal policy of accepting migrants from basically wherever as long as they satisfied the qualifications for skills currently needed in the labour market?

edit - this is a sincere question, 2007 was my first election so I grew up under him but I'm not au fait with the details of his tenure other than the policies I hated him for i.e. offshore processing, Workchoices, general culture war poo poo

Yeah, Howard has gone off the deep end in his old age. Don't get me wrong, he was always poo poo, but he used to be a pretty typical neo liberal, and now he's just a full on culture warrior.

Captain Theron fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Oct 31, 2023

Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

hooman posted:

There was a lot of violence and bombings supporting the suffragette movement. There was violent force supporting the nonviolent push for change.

Oh, I am aware, but the end goal was to become a part of the democratic system, not to replace it. They were radical (for their time) but not revolutionary.

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Captain Theron
Mar 22, 2010

hooman posted:

Do you really think that incorporation of the First Nations into a system explicitly created to disposses and exclude them is going to create good outcomes?

Treaty isn't assimilation, it's synthesis, it's creating a system that works for all.

I'm confused by your question. Was indigenous enfranchisement a bad thing? While there are still many problems and I am fully in support of a treaty, I do think it is better that people are a part of the systems of power that govern them, yes.

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