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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Bucnasti posted:

Didn't the Maori's win a big settlement from Lego for using a bunch of their mythology and culture in the Bionicle line?

Like the story I heard was that the Maori IP'd up their own culture and then Lego came along and stole it all so the Maori took them to court and won.
the thing is bionicle was using a bunch of words, ideas, etc, instead of just loosely inspired clothing

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

saying VAing will be replaced by AI outside of a few games a year is pretty silly, and very western-focused aside. In Japan popular VAs are an industry onto themselves, even if they could replace them all perfectly with AI they never would, they're a marketing aspect. Even very small games (even some indies) will try and get a popular VA or two. And I can't see those games going for AI voice acting when translated when dub VAs are usually so cheap anyway and AI voice acting is pretty bad PR at this point, and if they wanted to cheap out completely they could just not have a dub at all.

And there's really no mid-size development level in the west. So the only thing I can really see it being used for is complete unknown indies and incidental VAing of random enemy robots or whatever.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Kanos posted:

I don't really get where the idea that voice acting is somehow suppressing or crushing the life out of original narratives and dialogue in gaming comes from, at all. There are dozens of indie games being released every single day that don't have a single line of voice acting, many of them quite wordy and plot heavy.

For AAA level budgets, voice acting is generally a relatively small percentage of the overall budget compared to the enormous cost of realizing modern AAA graphical expectations.
the post is saying that if you want to do rewrites but the VAing is already recorded, you have to either re-record the lines (which costs money/time) or find a way to repurpose existing lines.

for an extreme example of something similar, persona 5 had a lot of rewrites after its 2d animated cutscenes were already done. that's why you get things like the characters randomly telling the protagonist to put his glasses on even when he isnt wearing them, he does so, takes one step, and then he is in a 2d animated cutscene where he has his glasses on.

however, this isn't really a symptom of voice acting, but a symptom of AAA game development being a cluster, and I don't think removing VA would solve this issue because there's still thngs like 'levels are already completed,' 'models for characters are already completed,' 'the scene is already animated,' etc. If anything, voice acting is one of the easier and faster things to redo if you have to throw a scene out after implementing it. if you decide against having the main character's father turn out to be evil and have him make some kind of heroic sacrifice for the player instead, you can just throw out his villainous monologue scene and get the VA to record a few lines of him going 'i do this... for you... son...' It could be done in a week tops if you can get a hold of the VA, and recording a few more lines isn't that expensive, and only represents the work of one person. but if you already made level 9: your dad is evil and made the Evil Dad boss fight, that represents months of work by dozens of people that has to be either thrown out or retooled in some way.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

even if you had a perfect ai calibrating it and prodding it to get the delivery you want still represents manhours, there will never be an ai that can just intuit exactly how it's supposed to read something. it can make guesses based on previous data but they're just that, guesses.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I was under the impression that Rock Paper Shotgun was clean.
they posted like five billion amazon affiliate links during the big amazon strikes a few years back

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

haldolium posted:

Its not only the Evil Publisher its the problem with most SI press. This is a not very intellectual demanding hobby based job, so people who actually like games but aren't necessarily good writers/thinkers/critics or have any kind of education in that field are often the people who write reviews or news. The audience is neither (or mostly at least) interested in some more in-depth thoughts about it as it is not that kind of hobby for most parts so it remains just glorifying everything the writer personally likes, making it more or less unintentional marketing.


the other issue is that 'game criticism/opinion pieces/reviews' and 'game journalism' are often written by the same people so that leads to a lack of focus on one or the other, or weird mixing of the two. like roger ebert wasnt out there giving us updates on box office returns.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

HopperUK posted:

The pernicious thing on youtube is people saying 'Not sponsored, not affiliated! But the company did send me all this product for free!' Well then you are affiliated, aren't you, really. Because if you trash the stuff they'll probably stop sending you product for free. Nerdecrafter is bad like this.
tbf im not entirely sure how true that is because ive definitely seen people say 'they sent me this for free and it sucks' and still get free copies

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

angry video game nerd, sponsored by genshin impact

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

i forget who but i remember a youtuber mentioning that he got sent an ad offer by raid shadow legends, said no, got sent another like a week later, didnt say anything, got sent another a couple weeks later, said no and to stop sending him offers, got sent an ad offer a week later, sent them goatse, and then got sent another ad offer

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Methylethylaldehyde posted:

I want one of the random streamers to read the ad copy, verbatim, like Ben Stein trying desperately hard to stay awake at an understaffed DMV. Like negative net energy recital.
brutalmoose did a review of an old D&D tutorial VHS with full cheesy wizard costume so he just read the raid shadow legends ad copy while dressed in a cheap wizard costume, that was a decent bit

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

ConfusedPig posted:

Wait how did he get away with it unscathed? I get loving over workers and consumers without consequences, but isn’t loving over other rich people a big no-no line your not supposed to cross?

that would require them to admit theyve been scammed. a lot of rich people would rather lose millions and write something off as a 'failed experiment' than admit they got conned.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

a lot of big mobile games like genshin and star rail have PC and console ports so it might also just be that players aren't necessarily playing them on phones anymore. If your game is high-end enough presentation wise to justify it then a PC port is ideal because it means google or apple isn't taking a cut of purchases.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Ibblebibble posted:

It might be a case of country-specific terminology, because IIRC when you say "simulation game" in Japan they would think you mean "tactics game" or something like that (someone please correct me on this, all I remember is that "simulation game" doesn't have the same meaning in Japan as it does in the West).
that's correct but there's also a lot of say, idol games where there's some minor management type gameplay in addition to the rhythm game that get called 'simulator' as well

and yeah uma musume is one of the biggest games in japan and is actually just a track racing management sim

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

AG3 posted:

Table (probably tabletop?)
table mostly refers to mahjong and poker games, though RPGs that use those as mechanics also apply. TCG stuff is usually just tagged as 'tcg' so its more traditional card games/tile games and not slay the spire, though you get stuff like mahjong RPGs sometimes.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

MechaCrash posted:

I can't speak for all regions, but I do remember reading that Microsoft pissed off a lot of Japanese developers due to some mixture of arrogance and ignorance, so most of the games on the XBox line were Western developed. I think there was a bit of a change in this during the 360/PS3 era just because if you wanted your game to sell in America, you had to put it on 360, because the 360 was shitstomping the PS3.

I'm pretty sure the major point behind games like Enchanted Arms and Blue Dragon was a desperate "we have those games too, please love us" play.
the original xbox had few games that appealed to japanese audiences. jrpg wise it had the worst smt game ever made and thats literally the only one i can think of, and some random sega dreamcast ports/sequels. and not even the ones people might have wanted, those went to the gamecube. gamecube got sonic adventure and skies of arcadia, xbox got jet set radio and panzer dragoon. i love me some jet set radio, but.

and as silly as this is going to sound the original xbox was literally way too big for Japanese audiences. Like, physically. Japanese houses are on average way smaller than american houses, and a lot of people in Tokyo live in small apartments, not actual houses. The original xbox is about a third bigger than the PS2 and about twice as big as the gamecube. It's hard to find space for the drat thing. Xbox's marketing strategy in Japan was to lean into the 'bulky American electronic that plays American games,' thing, treat it as a foreign novelty, but there were a lot of American PS2 games that got releases in Japan if people wanted to try that stuff out.

Not to mention their ads just sucked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOP_12y7t30

Like this was the big ad for Halo, the xbox's killer title, over there. What.

There's clearly a market for Western games in Japan, Witcher 3 did very well and Apex Legends is absolutely massive over there, and Valve's work is generally known despite the PC gaming boom never happening, but Microsoft just never even attempted to make the case for their console, and it was offputting in its design and general vibes.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

kinect adventures is the best selling 360 game and kinect sports and dance central sold well but no other kinect game did that well and sales of the kinect did not boost sales of other 360 games. people bought a 360 for kinect, got the Kinect Games, and then did not buy the more game-y kinect games and did not buy any other 360 games. for some reason microsoft thought that making the one entirely about the kinect would work in this context.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

yeah its hard to blame the judges in this case. the FTC's lawyers seemed like they had literally never heard of a video game.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

microsoft has utterly terrible decision making and just buying call of duty and WoW will not fix that

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

also in january of this year wow had 9.5 million players. obviously prices vary based on region/certain deals and but if you just say each of those guys paid 15 bucks at the start of that month thats almost 150 million dollars, but lets fudge it and say 100 mill.

heres a list of the significant new content wow released in january:

a wing of an lfr raid


done


i do not think this cost 100 million dollars to develop

and thats not even counting cash shop and people buying the base game/expac or buying multiple months at once

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Doom Rooster posted:

Where are you getting the 9.5 number? Last I heard they were around 3, down from the all time peak of 12 around Wrath-Cata.

I would be hugely surprised if they had managed to get back above 5, much less 9.
oh gently caress me this was saying 'monthly players' not 'monthly subs' lmao. thats probably including free trial players, though its wild to me that there are that many free trial players, my bad. the actual monthly sub numbers seems to be 4.5 mill?

still though the point of 'an insane amount of free money' remains

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

pure conjecture but i would be surprised if cash shop whaling wasn't at least 50% of the revenue for that game

yeah, theres a reason they forced it into classic even though they knew itd drive some people away

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

obviously theres the cost of keeping the servers up and moderation staff too, and stuff that you're working on that hasnt come out yet, but idk how millions of people giving you 15 bucks a month could be, not, profitable

there was a period where square enix was kept afloat 75% because of ff14

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

the saudis are moving a bunch of money in and out of their various investments it seems like. wwe just took a hit because of that too, they pulled some money out of them and into a mma org (PFL)

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

to be fair in that case it doesnt seem like the video game company was at fault. the dub VAs for their other game were getting paid fine and as soon as hoyoverse was aware of the problem they resolved it. it seems like the issue was the company they were going through.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

i feel like a lot of people base their reads on situations first and foremost on flexing about how much more moral they are than Gamers theyve made up in their heads

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

not really? plenty of people who post a ton on gaming subreddits and would self-identify as 'Gamers' don't do that kind of thing. people who react like that are a minority of a minority of a minority, its stupid to constantly post about them.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

id much rather e3 than the game awards because at least e3 didnt pretend to be anything other than a promotional event. acting like 'oh, this random AAA sony game is Game of the Year, lets all clap' or the disgusting Games for Change poo poo is just the worst.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Vic posted:

no way

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

frankly video game booth babes were among the most normal and video games only had them for a few years

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

The Moon Monster posted:

Isn't Embracer a rebrand of THQ Nordic, of 2chan fame?
no, thq nordic is a subsidiary of them. embracer group used to be named thq nordic, but the thq nordic that did the 8chan AMA wasn't originally thq nordic. yes, this is confusing.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

embracer group's been like this from minute one. they started out as a small game retail chain in sweden, then that went under, then they reformed as a 'supplier.' they'd buy unsold stock from EA, THQ, etc, and then sell those on themselves to bulk swedish retailers like ICA and Coop, places that don't normally sell games. they'd price the games cheap but still amke a profit off them, and theyd usually be stuff that'd probably move units to casual consumers if sold cheaply enough, like sports games. then with that supply chain established, they bought and contracted some small european studios to make crap wii cashins like we sing and stuck it places normal people would see them. then they used the money from that to buy more small studios, etc etc.

their strategy's always been to buy stuff on the cheap and then abandon it if it fails to return a profit. this was a sustainable strategy for wii party games, not so much aaa experiences, but of course nobody's going to tell their investors that.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Ghost Leviathan posted:

IIRC Square's western games were doing fine but they had wildly unrealistic sales expectations for them to carry their Final Fantasy bungles and ended up selling them off basically as a ragequit.
not really tbh. ff15 sold like like two to three times as much as everything their western studios made except tomb raider. their expectations for those games were very high but with western aaa dev costs expecting them to sell as much as final fantasy isnt unreasonable, especially when ff15 had a publicly troubled development. avengers being a tire fire was probably the final straw.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Expecting them to sell as much as a numbered Final Fantasy title IS pretty unreasonable.
maybe, but is expecting hitman to sell more than final fantasy 12 revenant wings for the nintendo ds unreasonable?

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

to be clear about free to play games, there does seem to be a minimum revenue requirement, so games that are actually free to play (and dont have microtransactions) would be fine. however, unity is still basically nonusable going forward.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

nobody calls actually free games "free-to-play"
that has always meant mtx-supported games

plenty of people call free games free to play... i see it all the time...

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Its the opposite. They wany to do this to milk f2p games even more.

As a random example of a big unity game, last month genshin got *4 million downloads* on *mobile alone*. Probably 5 million if you include pc and ps4/5.

Games with no entry fee build up downloads like crazy.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

mycot posted:

poo poo the Mihoyo games use Unity? Then yeah this is totally a case of trying to hold the big games hostage at the expense of indie and smaller developers. Kinda like what Adobe does with their products (though even Adobe just charges an exorbitant subscription fee instead of all this).
a ton of random phone games use unity, even ones that dont really look it. off the top of my head, arknights and all the final fantasy gachas use it too. if this goes through a lot of the smaller ones of those will probably shut down.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Broken Cog posted:

Not disagreeing, though I think you also need at least 100k downloads, but yeah. Considering how many mobile games are made in Unity....
Absolutely boneheaded decision all around. Current CEO is starting to remind me of those vultures that get sent in to crash a company so its assets can be bought up for pennies.

funny story about that

https://twitter.com/SauceJockey/status/1701629115529413062

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

https://twitter.com/stephentotilo/status/1701679721027633280

'charity bundles exempted from fees' how can you possibly tell what installs are from charity and which arent

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

if you think about genshin impact we will charge mihoyo one dollar

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