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Just going to point out that Stolas' response to what happened in S2E4 being him recognizing the power imbalance (not in the social rank, but in the fact Stolas has control over Blitzo's livelihood) was always going to be a barrier between their getting any closer and then seeking to rememedy it was very mature on his part. The ball is now entirely in Blitzo's court. Adder Moray fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Sep 9, 2023 |
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Sep 9, 2023 21:46
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| # ¿ May 13, 2024 01:08 |
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I just really need someone to tell someone else on this show "you better take the reverb outta your voice" or some variation thereof.
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Jan 19, 2024 18:06
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Cugel the Clever posted:Her description of her father suggests he's a creampuff himself. And, honestly, so does a reading of the biblical myths which doesn't take the entity asserting itself as the universe's just and benevolent "God" at face value: Lucifer's no perverted, evil psychopath, just someone who offered humanity the ability to perceive good from evil. This upsets Yahweh because, woops! his draconian subjugation of humanity to his petty whims is obviously pretty drat evil. But Yahweh still had power and cast Lucifer into the pit and shoveled generations upon generations of the worst humanity has to offer onto him. The lack of perception of good and evil is the reason that children are innocent, even when they do things that, should an adult do them, would be perceived as evil. Innocence means the freedom to do as you please without actually committing sin, because you have no concept of what is right and what is wrong. That's the entire reason that Lucifer was jealous of humanity in the first place. Because they were actually free to do as they pleased, save for one thing, while angels were not.
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Jan 21, 2024 07:24
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The Last Call posted:The Lucifer in this has a different origin, that needs to be kept in mind. But the post I was quoting wasn't about the show's origin Cugel the Clever posted:So pre-apple humans were pet psychopaths Yahweh had running around in a zoo doing who knows what and, when Lucifer encouraged Eve to use her mind to consider the impact of her actions (and perhaps critically assess her relationship with Yahweh), Yahweh cast them out into abject desperation and imposed eternal damnation any human who'd violate his rules? And then failed to provide concrete evidence that his rules and consequences exist? I don't find contrarian readings of fiction particularly interesting, though. EDIT: And I mean that irrespective of how you feel about God's role in the story. The serpent literally lies on page to Eve about what the tree does in order to get her to eat the fruit, deliberately sabotaging paradise. Arguing Lucifer was trying to help is like saying "well, the government lied about how bad marijuana is, so I can clearly trust this meth dealer hanging outside of the school." Adder Moray fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Jan 21, 2024 |
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Jan 21, 2024 11:48
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Larryb posted:Ah right, though judging by a scene in the trailer it seems like Charlie’s eventually gonna start a war of some kind (or at least a small scale resistance) anyway. We already know it’s theoretically possible to kill an angel after all I fully expect this to end up in the exorcists being a bureaucratic layer between heaven and hell deliberately making communication difficult. There are only one of two ways for Charlie's whole plan to resolve without the series seeming like a huge waste of time. Either she's right, and sinners can be redeemed or she's wrong, and they all just have to resolve to make hell better. The latter seems much to saccharine to me. Operating on the idea that it's the former, then, you wind up with an excellent setup for at least 2 seasons of conflict. Season 1 being Adam and the Excorcists who either know and don't want it getting out or, more likely, have no idea and don't think it's worth bringing up to anyone over their heads. Season 2 being overlords not liking the idea of losing out on souls they've acquired. Also, Angel is obviously the first one getting out if it can actually work. Probably still gonna be main cast because angels seem to have the freedom to come and go as they please.
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Jan 22, 2024 01:57
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a neat cape posted:So did Lute confirm that it's just Charlie and Lucifer that are exempt from the exterminations? Or does that include ALL hell-born like the Imps, Hell Hounds, sharks, etc? Is it only Sinners that are affected? The way it was phrased, it sounds like hellborn in general
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Jan 22, 2024 04:49
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Lord_Magmar posted:Belphegor is going to be genderswapped like Beelzebub was, and no we haven't seen any demons definitely associated with her ring.
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Jan 22, 2024 14:59
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So I get the distinct impression from what's been said that Husk is warlocking it with Alastor effectively acting as his patron and allowing him do a lot of the things he used to be able to on his own power as an Overlord. Those custom gambling based abilities don't seem standard issue for sinners, after all. And if he ever did use them to claw back his his status, Alastor would then own an overlord, making the deal worth it. He managed to climb the ladder once, nothing stops him from doing it again but himself.
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Jan 23, 2024 03:51
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Cugel the Clever posted:Theoretically, but Husk clearly resents being a pawn. Alastor would have to be on guard against active efforts to negate the deal or, at least, malicious compliance. Not an uncommon issue for a Warlock's patron.
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Jan 23, 2024 04:16
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Larryb posted:Also as someone else mentioned, there’s a bit of a flaw in Charlie’s plan: the closer the residents of the hotel get the more attached they become to one another and as such may not want to leave even if they were offered redemption
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Jan 23, 2024 19:10
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The Last Call posted:She's clearly going to help, and likely fall due to it. I am pretty sure she's not the one that's going to fall here.
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Jan 26, 2024 02:54
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The Last Call posted:Despite what the speed of this season may suggest we got many more seasons to go so I can't see things getting resolved so quick in a good way. Got to be a struggle to drive the storyline. For those wondering, the VA's are back in studio recording season two right now. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Whether or not the hotel can work is something that needs to be settled by the end of the first season. Otherwise, the show is just spinning its wheels. There are plenty of conflicts left to deal with after answering that question, especially if Angel Dust, a soul ostensibly owned by an overlord, is the first one out. There are quite a few swords hanging over everything as is, the most obvious one being Alastor who, to me, clearly seems like the end game villain.
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Jan 26, 2024 03:14
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It won't be the answer, but an answer that would get Adam into heaven and exclude a ton of other people: How many people you hurt in life and how many have forgiven you.
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Jan 28, 2024 00:45
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a neat cape posted:So are the Exorcists heavenborn? Is Lute a Heavenborn or Sinless? Sinless would be the mortal opposite of Sinners yeah? Winner is the show lore opposite of a sinner. And I expect the exorcists are all hand-picked human souls gifted certain abilities to get the job done.
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Jan 28, 2024 02:41
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As an aside, I'd actually say Sera's judgement was correct, but only in a technical "letter of the law" sense. Angel is evidence that souls in hell can become better people. He is not, however, evidence that they can be redeemed into heaven, as he's still in hell and still a demon. And since they do not know the criteria for entering heaven, they can't even say he's actually achieved any of the criteria.
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Jan 28, 2024 06:37
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Flopsy posted:But it essentially makes it a kangaroo court as she knows it's going to be a lose/ lose situation either way. I think she expected that the conclusion was foregone, but also expected Adam to have some idea of how he got there in the first place, so there'd be evidence that none of the sinners were achieving the criteria. Adam laying out an actual check list and Angel ticking all of the boxes probably wasn't a result she was expecting. Charlie'd probably have a stronger case if Angel hadn't checked all of the boxes.
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Jan 28, 2024 10:31
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Oxxidation posted:that last part is what kills her case, because if she doesn't know the criteria then it's not even certain if "better people" are qualified to get into heaven at all. one place is a sparkly shopping plaza where everyone's happy and polite, and the other's a puke-soaked anarchic slum where shooting someone in the gut is how you say "hello" and "goodbye." who's to say that the many sinners act the way they do because they get randomly binned into the latter? It's why I keep saying someone's getting in by the end of the season. The idea of people getting out of hell has to be proven possible or impossible by the end of the season or else the show is spinning its wheels. If it happens in a scenario that's non-replicable, even better, because it's now proven that the goal is possible, but whether or not Charlie can do it consistently is still in question. But whether or not a soul can be redeemed needs to be answered. Lord_Magmar posted:No, Sinners (except Lilith?) cannot have children in Hell. Hellborn and definitely the Goetia can. Fallen Angels presumably can. Adder Moray fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 18:26
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Larryb posted:In that case I’m curious who’s above Sera that makes the rules but couldn’t be bothered to attend the meeting My assumption is no one. There's no one (conscious) upstairs. They don't know what they're doing. They're following a basic general notion of what they were meant for and have no further instructions. Sera doesn't know what gets people into heaven and she doesn't know what causes Angels to fall. She's cobbled together her beliefs and knowledge from her experience and is going based only on what she's cobbled together from that. She knows Lucifer did something that got him kicked out of heaven, so she shouldn't do anything that he did, right? She knows she's meant to protect the people in heaven, but protect them from what? Well, Adam says that hell is going to rebel so that must be it, because what else could it be, right?
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Jan 28, 2024 21:56
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QuoProQuid posted:like, i don't even know why the execution ticking clock/Adam is even present when it seems like it would be really easy and cut to the chase with, "Heaven greenlights the idea of a Hazbin Hotel because they have impossible standards and are certain she will fail (and when she succeeds, they arbitrarily change their rules to stop her)." all this other poo poo just adds so much complexity that it's impossible to really digest it all or take any individual element seriously. Well the answer to this is pretty simple: Charlie's motivating factor is the exterminations. She didn't start the hotel to save people from hell (though I expect that will be its goal going forward and the exterminations will end by the end of season one), hell is her home. She started it to reduce the population of hell (which is the reason hell has been given for it happening) without having to see a bunch of her people killed.
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Jan 29, 2024 04:58
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To be specific: Hell sucks because it's Earth with mostly only the lovely people, who don't have to pretend not to be lovely anymore, and the people who made big mistakes in life and aren't lovely enough to get any real power. You get stronger by being awful and if you're not awful you get trampled over. And even if you just keep your head down and live your life, you're living in a world built and run by the absolute worst people completely unchecked by anyone but the other absolute worst people.
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Jan 29, 2024 06:12
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Alastor and Lucifer's musical pissing match is interesting; they both come off as passive-aggressively covering up their own insecurities. Alastor basically presenting himself as the steadfast ally who's helped Charlie all the way, and whatever can be said, he's certainly been more cooperative (and far more polite) than can be expected of 99% of Hell, let alone Overlords, and Lucifer as pretty much a deadbeat dream-crushing dad showing up trying to buy his way back into her life now she's proved him wrong. I will note, Alastor wasn't letting on during the whole thing, but it seemed to me that Lucifer really got under his skin by being there. You can see it in (relatively) subtle ways, most obviously how quickly Alastor skipped the verbal sparring and went straight to "gently caress you." That's why he lost his cool with Husk. That's why he felt the need to show out on the loan sharks. Regardless of who has his soul on lock, I don't even think this was about that. At least not directly. He does not like not being perceived as the most powerful person in the room. He's insecure. And the power hierarchy got put on display in full during his and Lucifer's song. Even if you don't take what's happening in those as literally occurring, the imagery paints a picture. Lucifer tosses around Alastor like a play thing during his verse while Alastor can't do the same to him. Alastor trap doors Lucifer once, yes, but Lucifer was humiliating him throughout his verse.
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Jan 29, 2024 09:52
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Flopsy posted:Something to note; during that conversation he has with Charlie he actually frowns and has sad expression for a half second. Specifically when talking about dooming everyone you love. I don't think that's a sad expression. It's the same facial expression he's had in the eyes, he's just saying a "d."
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Jan 31, 2024 06:55
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5 PM pacific
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Feb 2, 2024 00:09
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Told you they had to confirm whether or not it could work by the end of the season. Surprised who, though.
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Feb 2, 2024 02:17
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So we all agree Adam's going to respawn in hell, right? Would actually make something click. Angels don't generally die and sinners don't generally put in the work to be redeemed. So the last step to getting "reassigned" being "you die again" makes some logical sense.
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Feb 2, 2024 02:36
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Pants Donkey posted:I’m hoping there’s more episodes or improvements to bigger picture writing next season, as the biggest flaw on first watch is the pacing. I get that giant corporations don’t just hand Youtube creators a show deal every day, and animation in particular is expensive. So Amazon greenlighting just eight 25ish-minute episodes makes sense. But I wish the writers had more faith in the show getting a second season and slowed things down. I said it before, and I'll say it again. It's not an issue of season count. Season 1 had to end with the question of whether or not the hotel can work answered, whether it was 20 episodes or 4.
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Feb 2, 2024 02:59
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MonsieurChoc posted:So that ending changes a lot of our rpevious assumptions huh. It's pretty much perfectly in line with the majority of mine, at least.
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Feb 2, 2024 04:44
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Caros posted:Much like with pentious being redeemed even though people like carmine exist, Funky Valentine posted:Alastor immediately losing the moment Adam gets a minute to breathe is genuinely funny. Pecking order!
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Feb 2, 2024 06:20
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Covok posted:I was thinking the same thing. It would make a lot of sense, but would raise questions about people who already been killed and weren't reassigned. Are they super dead because they died again in their proper place or is there more to it? Not sure. When you introduce true death and afterlifes, these questions always get raised
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Feb 2, 2024 07:01
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Darth Walrus posted:I strongly suspect that there's some disturbing grooming poo poo going on with the Exorcists. Adam was the anti-Charlie, grandfathered in before the mysterious but apparently semi-functional morality sorting system was properly in place, and was this able to turn an army of basically decent people (who oh-so-coincidentally happened to all be attractive young women) into genocidal maniacs. My bet is that when we get into Lute's backstory and her relationship with her boss, it's going to be insanely hosed up. I honestly think Adam was a good dude when he got into heaven. He just became shittier over time and didn't get the boot because he hadn't died again.
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Feb 2, 2024 16:52
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Darth Walrus posted:The events leading up to the Fall of Man say otherwise, and we've seen enough of Lucifer and Adam to believe the former is a reasonably reliable source on how things went down. Being kind of an rear end in a top hat doesn't make you a bad person. It just makes you kind of an rear end in a top hat. Getting away with being kind of an rear end in a top hat for millenia unchecked? That makes you a bad person.
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Feb 2, 2024 17:50
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Madurai posted:I think that Lucifer was using double-entendre. She "liked what he had to offer," which in this case was the apple. Sir Penitentious
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Feb 3, 2024 00:42
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Hell is literally just Earth on hardcore mode. Including the "actually dying" part.
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Feb 3, 2024 18:28
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Macaluso posted:Adam's powers and him just totally decimating the hotel with his lazers, sort of brought up questions regarding the exterminations. My inital assumption was, okay it seems like if you are indoors the angels aren't allowed to go in there and mess with you, there seems to be enough sinners stuck out on the streets because of overpopulation. But, outside of the hotel being a very rare special case where Adam was just breaking the rules, he really had no trouble just destroying the building. But if that's not the case, what was stopping them from just breaking into buildings to kill everyone? Especially the Overlords. I mean the Vees just kind of stayed chilling in their tower watching the hotel get attacked, but there wasn't any fortifications, they even had full floor to ceiling glass windows. And yes I know this time they focused on the hotel before they planned on the usual plan, but I'm talking about previous exterminations. I'm really curious what the rules were there, but I imagine that will not get answered now that they're over Ease. It wasn't personal before, they were just having fun. No reason to go out of the way trying to break into a fortified stronghold when there are so many sinners running around outside. You'd just be wasting prescious slaughter time.
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Feb 3, 2024 20:15
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DoubleCakes posted:So how many kinds of people are actually damned souls? I wasn't sure but I figured Overlords were perhaps hellborn beings that were never living on Earth and had died. At first I assumed that only Charlie was hellborn but Carmilla has daughters so... Overlords are all Sinners, just ones who have amassed power. Carmilla's daughters may have reunited with her in death or they may just be adopted in hell. Hazbin doesn't really deal with Hellborn, that's Helluva's bag. Charlie, Razzle, Dazzle, Keekee, maybe Fat Nuggets, and possibly the Egg Boys technically. The rest are sinners and angels.
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Feb 3, 2024 21:26
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Flopsy posted:They need to update the structure of the rings I think. Rings and circles are different things. Hell is divided into 7 rings. The Pride ring is divided into 9 circles. Pentagram City is one of those rings.
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Feb 4, 2024 01:07
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Gothmog1065 posted:There are no rings/circles in Pride, just overpopulated cities, which is why exterminating is so easy there. Most of this is from https://hazbinhotel.fandom.com/wiki/Pride_Ring, but I haven't seen anything to counter this. I think there is speculation that there USED to be 9 layers/rings/circles of hell, but two are gone. 
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Feb 4, 2024 01:59
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Madurai posted:On second watchthrough I noticed that Razzle (and/or Dazzle) get a gold monument opposite Sir Pentious' painting. It's Dazzle. Charlie's spurs Razzle onwards by name while riding him.
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Feb 4, 2024 08:26
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Annointed posted:Wish we could have had pet ova of the eggs, goats and Fat nuggets Don't forget Keekee
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Feb 4, 2024 09:11
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KORNOLOGY posted:I've yet to see a single toilet in hell. We saw two. The one Alastor used for a picture of the custom rooms. And the one Nifty got stuck in.
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Feb 6, 2024 00:48
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