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Koos Group posted:I'm not sure what you're referring to. I've only given one joke response in this thread, to a user who seemed to be joking themselves (Harold Fjord), and it was not at any particular person's expense. I also don't believe I've done anything to discourage feedback, and I welcome feedback that is critical of my or my team's decisions, because as you say doing otherwise would defeat the thread's point. Referring to CZS who seemed to be running the thread, or at least was replying the most.
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Oct 31, 2022 20:07
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Victar posted:I, uh, didn't really understand the Ukraine thread crackdown on discussion of a leaked US congress-signed open letter about aid to Ukraine, but if the hypothetical alternative to accepting that crackdown were losing CZS moderation, then no trade no deal - I would not want to gamble the D&D Ukraine thread on any other mod. What happened there is that in addition to the discussion of the leaked letter, which was very reminiscent in tone to the conversations about the DSA that the thread used to have before I cracked out on them a few months into the war, there was also an ongoing discussion about how the economy of California is or is not better than the economy of Germany, that was absolutely irrelevant to the thread. As I explained there: cinci zoo sniper posted:No, this is a current events thread for a war in Ukraine, and the last page about economies of Germany and California, months old words from random members of the lower house of US parliament, and some theoretical wanking about what could or could not happen at some point in the future was broadly irrelevant and tedious to read. But for the purpose of feedback thread, I'm happy to go into more detail. So, the opening question on the economy chat was questionably appropriate for the thread. In part because it's a nonsensical question, and there's some baseline expectation for doing your own minimum research before posting, and in part since it has a rather dubious connection to the current events of the war in Ukraine. khwarezm posted:https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1584641718049464320 No, an economy the size of the US is not going to die because it has to pay US for the gas instead of paying Russia for the gas, and no, wild speculations for events that some person could imagine happening some number of years in the future does at best struggle to qualify for a current events discussion. As a follow up to this post, a number of replies were made on the topics of the economic competitiveness of California or the United States, that are broadly irrelevant to the thread, and which I would've preferred to not have been posted to it at all: WarpedLichen posted:I wish I had a crystal ball as accurate as these pundits, probably could make a killing on the markets. TheDeadlyShoe posted:The irony of that chart is that a lot of California's current GDP growth is credited to renewables. If anything, the current crisis should show Germany / the EU that not only is cheap Russian energy a dire political choice, but a questionable economic choice in the long term. Tuna-Fish posted:The problem with this is that renewables work a lot better in California than they do in Central or Northern Europe. What renewables do you propose to power Germany with in the winter months when there is basically no sunlight, and when very cold weather typically coincides with zero wind? TheDeadlyShoe posted:I was more speaking industrially than trying to reboot the German energy debate. Germany's industrial expertise should theoretically apply to manufacturing renewables, even if the domestic market is small. Granted it would be far easier for that sector to develop with a strong domestic demand, but it's not impossible - just look at Germany's status as a shipbuilder. archangelwar posted:Not only does Germany have huge existing renewable exploitation, but they also have huge potential renewable exploitation both domestically and within close proximity with the right partnerships. Renewable energy doesn’t just consist of rooftop solar and lowlands windmills in Munich. WarpedLichen posted:By what measure of renewables are we really talking about anyway? FishBulbia posted:European states individually are mostly depopulating or stagnating places with limited natural resources. IDK how them no longer being comparable to the productive end of literally continent spanning countries is supposed to shocking unless you were frozen in like 1912 and just woke up. Cicero posted:In a lot of more left leaning discussions on the internet, the framing is that the US is pants on head idiotic policy-wise compared to (Western) Europe. While this is frequently accurate, it somewhat conflicts with the US going from strength to strength economically: if the US keeps picking poo poo policies, why is it doing so much better in terms of productivity? Pook Good Mook posted:Not to derail, but as much as people say "America is like playing a game of geopolitics on easy mode with cheats on" if California were a new country founded yesterday it would be ludicrously competitive from a natural resources and climate/geography standpoint. WarpedLichen posted:I mean how much of that is because of global hegemony and being the world's reserve currency? Effectively unlimited borrowing is pretty good for the economy. Mr. Smile Face Hat posted:This article goes into those talking points (not reproducing the diagrams here): Boris Galerkin posted:For the average American who isn’t terminally online, they see these news articles about massive billion dollar aid and weapons packages to Ukraine and then they look at the dwindling number in their bank account. Morrow posted:A little derail, but there's a convincing argument that while it's good for the US financially, it hurts the broader economy because the dollar is going to be artificially strong and increase the cost of imports. Mr. Smile Face Hat posted:I had posted a reply on this page to the post you’re quoting. It addresses the “easy mode”. WarpedLichen posted:I don't think the letter being from June/July makes it any less dumb. The lack of content or meaningful call to action is what makes it dumb. That it got picked up by the media closer to the election as a political weapon is just taking advantage of its inherent dumbness. I'll just say that this is a lot of posts for something that's neither clearly about the titular purpose of the thread, nor intrinsically interesting to me or my assumptions about what the sum of posters and lurkers frequenting the thread derive good value for their time from. Simultaneously, the other conversation branch surrounding the Caucus letter began like this (a bit earlier than the economy chat, chronologically, but most of the posts I take issue with are in the second half of it): Dapper_Swindler posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1584606451905200128?s=20&t=3zejqp1XIxnQyhT45oM-sA That seems like dumb and bad optics. And the bolded text did set it on the bad foot right away, since every time I've seen something like that phrased towards the DSA, AOC, Sanders, the rest of the Progressive Caucus in the thread, it was a tedious derail where posters were much more interesting in springing to the opportunity to rehash their pet peeves about domestic politics. Before I continue, the expected appropriate analytical response to this would be to note that 30 House liberals mean gently caress all in the current political environment, in the context of bi-partisan support on the Hill for aiding Ukraine, and in the realities of this conflict. To my delight, to the tune of two dozen posts were also made with perfectly normal commentary about it, e.g.: sean10mm posted:A handful of reps with dipshitty foreign policy ideas in general writing a dipshitty letter about foreign policy (that Biden is going to throw in the circular file immediately) isn't really a sign of anything, good or bad. It's just Monday in DC. MikeC posted:I don't see what is wrong with the letter other than that it assumes Biden hasn't already tried from time to time to find some sort of negotiated solution. All it is really saying is that it would be better if the war ended sooner rather than later while reaffirming the stance that the US should never impose or pressure Ukraine into a settlement that they are not happy with. Is it redundant that what they are asking for is already being tried? Yes. But I don't see anything in the contents of the letter which would make it "stupid". Pablo Bluth posted:The problem is it ignores that Russia is an entirely bad faith actor when it comes to negotiations and honouring their commitments arise from said negotations, while providing something Russia can use in bad faith to waive around and say "Why won't the west negotiate?". Unsurprisingly, the undesirable posts that I was concerned about were also quick to follow: mobby_6kl posted:They should send these cops to Bakmut Eric Cantonese posted:I hope it isn't terribly off-topic to state this, but some of these people are also the ones who drag their feet on condemning Iran while clawing at each other trying to put the boot in on the Saudis. It's a very annoying pattern among legislators I otherwise usually like a great deal. Mooseontheloose posted:It's a nothing letter so the Progressive Caucus can say they that we need more money for social programs and maybe see if there is a peaceful solution. I wouldn't pay it much mind. WarpedLichen posted:Is Biden asking the progressive caucus for opinions on what to do during the war? Are they providing an idea on how to achieve peace? Is there somebody in the administration who will slap their head and go geez, framework for peace, I can't believe nobody thought of that before? WarpedLichen posted:They're perfectly entitled to say anything they want, whenever they want. Just because they are entitled to put their foot in their mouth doesn't mean they have to do it. Herstory Begins Now posted:that's largely my feeling, the letter just doesn't say much (albeit if it doesn't say much, why the gently caress even release it other than obvious electoral considerations) Rinkles posted:What was the impetus for yesterday's "call for negotiation" from the Progressive Caucus? The midterms? Rigel posted:Also, aside from stupid assholes like Cruz who aren't liked and would never get the job, Senate Majority Leader is not a job any of the other reasonable alternatives really want. The speaker has more of an ability to be a bit of a firebrand in the house as long as they don't go too far, but the majority leader has to always keep 50+1 wanna-be future presidents in line, never gets credit for making that happen, and always gets the blame from activists whenever he fails. McConnell always gets support because if he quits, someone else has to take over. Nenonen posted:So y'all saying that Trump would be the perfect speaker? And a few more borderline posts, and then half a dozen to a dozen posts long questionably necessary conversation on whether if the letter really is or is not from July or whatever. Summarising, from my perspective, I had just read about 80-120 posts (I don't let myself fall behind more than 2-3 pages even if my day is slammed), out of which the thread could've missed 25 to, say, 40 posts – not in the least since 2-3 legitimate topics did drown in that noise, e.g., the story about the long-range missile crew from Russia. Since the common denominator for the two conversations was "bloviating about the USA", I posted a corresponding warning: cinci zoo sniper posted:I must have missed when this became a US politics thread. A few people asked questions related to the warning, and so I made it more clear with a subsequent warning: cinci zoo sniper posted:No, this is a current events thread for a war in Ukraine, and the last page about economies of Germany and California, months old words from random members of the lower house of US parliament, and some theoretical wanking about what could or could not happen at some point in the future was broadly irrelevant and tedious to read. Hardly the best warning I've ever written, but should not be a particularly ambiguous one. Alas, it was not, so after a few probes I even dropped a third warning: cinci zoo sniper posted:Instead of derailing the thread further with the most After which the posters keen on ruminating about American politicians did finally agree to move on, besides Herstory deciding that it was a great opportunity for some backseat modding: Herstory Begins Now posted:Am I missing something because the direct politics of american support for Ukraine seems incredibly in the purview of this thread called "War in Ukraine"? particularly while it's still a developing story When, in fact, the “no DSA chat” rule of the old thread, that I had forgotten to copy into the rules of the ongoing thread when rebooting it, was very specifically meant to shoot down the posts like the one they made, with poo poo some leftist American org said somewhere on the media, on their approach to the thread. tl;dr: It was 2 US-centric convos totalling to at least 2 dozen dubiously contributing posts, spread across merely 2 pages, that set me off to intervene at an arguably slow and soft, for me, pace, not just a mere invocation of congressional politics. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 20:25
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caveat "I hope someone else makes a relevant post", consider being the change that you want to see.
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Just want to highlight this as an example of moderation that curates the conversation in its thread or forum (if, as czs notes, a bit more slowly and softly than he usually does). Lots of folks have heated opinions about whether that's a trait of good moderation or the worst moderation, but it's worth noting and a nice opportunity to understand the thought process and actions behind it.
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Oct 31, 2022 21:22
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While I think that some of CZS's actions are a bit heavyhanded (for example, some of the derail posts they highlight are providing direct sourcing and context that serves to explain why the US Reps letter is irrelevant), it's infinitely better than choosing to not enforce the rules, or entertain users who come to the forum seeking a reaction they can then take back to a group socialized around opposing the forum's purpose.
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Oct 31, 2022 21:30
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Discendo Vox posted:While I think that some of CZS's actions are a bit heavyhanded (for example, some of the derail posts they highlight are providing direct sourcing and context that serves to explain why the US Reps letter is irrelevant), it's infinitely better than choosing to not enforce the rules, or entertain users who come to the forum seeking a reaction they can then take back to a group socialized around opposing the forum's purpose. I agree that there’s much to be gleaned from reading the poll figures in the article linked in the tweet by Herstory. On Herstory’s post, I take issue with the intent behind the post - I parse it as “look at the bad thing the caucus Twitter said”, rather than “here’s a factual supplement for this discourse”. Perhaps there’s also something good in the Quincy Institute tweet thread, I didn’t study it thoroughly. On the Eric’s post, I dislike just the first sentence, and would’ve not mentioned the post at all without it.
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Oct 31, 2022 21:59
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I'm a jokey guy but I was serious. If you're considering stats, post them. Vox was right about the Discendo Vox posted:ll Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 22:06
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Harold Fjord posted:I'm a jokey guy but I was serious. If you're considering stats, post them. I have no idea what numbers you expect to see or think that we are tracking.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:07
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I have no idea what numbers you expect to see or think that we are tracking. Koos Group posted:Yes, generally speaking based on the feedback, the day to day thread quality, and the behind the scenes metric of reports, D&D seems to be doing better than it was. I assume they're referring to that mention of numbers.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:27
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Harold Fjord posted:I'm a jokey guy but I was serious. If you're considering stats, post them. All of those were my impressions, not figures. Thread quality cannot be quantified, and while reports could, making those numbers public would run afoul of Campbell's Law in the way Vox pointed out.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:31
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Koos Group posted:Thread quality cannot be quantified
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Oct 31, 2022 22:42
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Since we seem to be winding down and I'm going to be gone for the rest of the night, I'll call it there. As always, thank you to everyone for their sincere feedback. A few takeaways for me:
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Oct 31, 2022 22:50
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