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So with Donny actively and publicly fighting with the Republican Party of Ohio, is Portman just too far ahead to pull Strickland's dumb rear end across the line?
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Oct 16, 2016 18:31
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Human rights exist outside the partisan spectrum.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:31
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Geostomp posted:The only reason Millennials as a whole are seen as more tolerant and liberal is that we have too much cultural diversity to be as openly hateful as the Baby Boomers. Kind of. White social groups are still largely all/majority white, culturaly diverse interactions plays a part but not near as much as you think because there simply aren't that many interactions. It's mostly that there are less white people in this generation and there are enough poc that we get heard from time to time. White millennials shouldn't lauded for being diverse combo breakers because they really are not there yet. Saying they are runs the all-too-real risk of white millennials going "welp we've done enough!" and regressing into reactionary stances .
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Oct 16, 2016 18:32
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Penisaurus Sex posted:If the best option you have to stop a large portion of your country from feeling scared, alienated, and like their government doesn't listen to them is to actually remove any ability they have to participate in that government, you aren't going to fix the problem. In fact, that's a really good way to ensure that our own brand of far right nationalism is here to stay instead of a blip that we can all forget about later. True, but as I am personally living through as regards Brexit, those people are not really well equipped to make a decision about anything more complex than basic colours and shapes. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 18:32
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cant cook creole bream posted:I used to read this thread really diligently. Usually Trumps meltdowns are quite funny and interesting. But nowadays it's just frustrating. There is nothing funny about sexual assault. Nothing! Racism was funny, though?
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Oct 16, 2016 18:33
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What's the difference in methodology between internal polls and the numbers we get? I always hear that "internal polls paint a different picture" etc etc, but I don't know why they would potentially be more accurate.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:33
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Penisaurus Sex posted:If the best option you have to stop a large portion of your country from feeling scared, alienated, and like their government doesn't listen to them is to actually remove any ability they have to participate in that government, you aren't going to fix the problem. In fact, that's a really good way to ensure that our own brand of far right nationalism is here to stay instead of a blip that we can all forget about later. The whole loving problem with America is that we listen to them too God drat much. Stop coddling white people already Christ.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:34
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Josef bugman posted:True, but as I am personally living through as regards Brexit, those people are not really well equipped to make a decision about anything more concept than basic colours and shapes. Maybe. But if you go down the road of disenfranchising anyone who's politics fit into a pretty big bucket (Republican who voted for Trump), all you're going to do is really piss off a bunch of people who are already scared and on edge. It doesn't actually fix the problem.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:34
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Gyges posted:So with Donny actively and publicly fighting with the Republican Party of Ohio, is Portman just too far ahead to pull Strickland's dumb rear end across the line? If Strickland gets to within 5, start pulling out your 500 EV Clinton maps, because that's about what it'll take for him to get close.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:35
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Josef bugman posted:True, but as I am personally living through as regards Brexit, those people are not really well equipped to make a decision about anything more concept than basic colours and shapes. Sorry this time we got to remain ideologically pure. Now let me tell you why you must vote for Hilary.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:35
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Penisaurus Sex posted:Maybe. But if you go down the road of disenfranchising anyone who's politics fit into a pretty big bucket (Republican who voted for Trump), all you're going to do is really piss off a bunch of people who are already scared and on edge. It doesn't actually fix the problem. I think that it does. In the most horrible way it stops these idiots from demanding they be listened to and the worst thing they are going to do is moan bitterly about it in the local pub and then die. Plus as was discussed earlier, there are other groups that deserve outreach before people being actively regressive. I dunno, I agree that disenfranchising people is very bad, but actual factual facism? I think it's okay that people can shout loudly at them to shut up and gently caress off.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:36
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Geostomp posted:The only reason Millennials as a whole are seen as more tolerant and liberal is that we have too much cultural diversity to be as openly hateful as the Baby Boomers. More like a huge portion of Millennials are minorities. Over 40% of Millennials are black, hispanic, or asian. Views haven't changed so much as the minorities are a bigger portion of the population.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:37
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rscott posted:The whole loving problem with America is that we listen to them too God drat much. The politics of fear is not a melanin problem.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:37
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Gyges posted:So with Donny actively and publicly fighting with the Republican Party of Ohio, is Portman just too far ahead to pull Strickland's dumb rear end across the line? Yes. Portman is just too boring to actively dislike, despite his endorsement of Trump. And Strickland was possibly the worst possible candidate the Dems could have run in a year where the Senate was actually up for grabs. All the ads against Strickland are basically video of him in his own words saying how lovely he was as Governor. The problem is, Ohio has exactly zero Democrats that would have been any better than Strickland.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:38
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FactsAreUseless posted:"Actually, it makes sense for minority groups to have spaces in which they can discuss minority issues." Fascists aren't minorities because they not people. They are just caricatures of the violence whose wanton lust for violence and power can only end in one way should they get elected. History probably would have been better off if every fascist therein was just drawn quartered and killed before some idiot with voting rights went through several iterations of denial to arrive it "You know what? Hitler might not be so bad after all if he gets into office. He might even do some good." just before millions of actual minorities get swept away by violence on a magnitude of order greater than anything an armchair socialist could conjure. But hey guys, the truth is in the middle right?
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Oct 16, 2016 18:38
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Meredith Baxter-Burnout posted:I'm a huge Seahawks fan and the best moment in my life was when when Richard Sherman tipped Kaepernick's pass in the NFCCG but I hope he lights it up against the Bills just to stick it to all the racist assholes/ All the tv listings for Seattle say fox is showing the 49ers, but they have the rams on instead. I called the station and they said fox sports made the decision. I wonder if they did this in any other markets.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:39
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Millennials propagated ideas such as of trigger warnings and safe spaces but are afraid of the idea of the government outright banning fascists from running for office. That's far more interesting of a predicament than anything I'd ever have to offer. Whyyyyyyyyyyy does no one understand what trigger warnings actually are? They're not censorship! They're warning labels. Offline, it's basically just your professor saying "heads up, there will be discussions of [topic] in this class today" or the movie review mentioning that this particular flick has a graphic rape scene. They already exist as courtesy. Safe spaces, same thing. The classroom that hosted the Gay-Straight Alliance at my high school had a "safe space" sticker on the door. That meant that you could come in and cry all over the lesbian math teacher if you needed to and she wouldn't kick you out. These are really not difficult concepts to grasp. Yes it's on the surface annoying that people get weird about them but is it better to spend a second saying "Heads up we're talking about this thing" and letting people self-curate from there or to spend your time taunting The Millenials for being coddled?
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Oct 16, 2016 18:39
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:Kind of. White social groups are still largely all/majority white, culturaly diverse interactions plays a part but not near as much as you think because there simply aren't that many interactions. punk rebel ecks posted:More like a huge portion of Millennials are minorities. Over 40% of Millennials are black, hispanic, or asian. Views haven't changed so much as the minorities are a bigger portion of the population. That's what I meant. We have too many minorities for whit Millennials to totally dominate like they do in older generations. I just didn't phrase myself clearly.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:40
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Josef bugman posted:I think that it does. In the most horrible way it stops these idiots from demanding they be listened to and the worst thing they are going to do is moan bitterly about it in the local pub and then die. Plus as was discussed earlier, there are other groups that deserve outreach before people being actively regressive. Outlawing fascism doesn't actually do anything because at some point the fascist blob is going to be big enough, and pissed off enough, to not give a drat about laws they never had a chance to vote for. If you're really concerned about fascism, you address the reasons why it takes hold in a country. Namely, you have a large portion of your population that is disillusioned by traditional politics, in a state of heightened economic anxiety, and ready to turn to the first person who gives them a solution, even if that solution is terrible. If anyone wants to actually say that the only reason fascism is in America is because we're more racist than we were in the 1950's and 1960's, then I have no idea where to go with that.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:41
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Disenfranchising/killing people for their political beliefs sets a bad precedent, even if those political beliefs are actually horrible. Someone in power could make the argument that any ideology is as bad as fascism (even if it's not) and use that to push for non-deplorable ideologies to be banned too.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:41
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Poor Julian Assange. He thought his leaks would turn the election and his man is going to lose in a likely blowout
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Oct 16, 2016 18:41
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ComradeCosmobot posted:I see you haven't heard of ~technical analysis~ (because polls are just like the stock market) OK, my turn to make a noob question: what are ~tildes~ around words supposed to mean? Does ~surrounding~ and putting only ~one mean different things?
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Oct 16, 2016 18:42
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iospace posted:Why bother when he says disqualifying things? I've been thinking about this a lot recently and I think the lack of oppo research from the primary is more complicated than people not caring or just assuming he'd lose. I suspect a number of his opponents had at least some of this information. The problem is that being the one to bring it up in the primary was probably a guaranteed way to lose. The modern Republican Party, even pre Trump, has been railing against PC Culture and the "thought police" for years. Even now conservatives and conservative media are rallying behind Trump, saying its locker room talk, boys will be boys, liberals are offended by the word pussy. Bringing it up first opens you to attack for being too PC, and probably guarantees a primary loss. Leaking it anonymously means you and everyone else has to go on the record either supporting his comments, pissing off moderates, or condemning him, putting you even more in the hole with the voters that ultimately won him the election. It's more of a coin flip and either choice, assuming you even win, has consequences in the general with the Republican base. I don't know if this has actually been polled, but I suspect most trump primary voters are still on board with him today - the people he's losing are the Cruz/Jeb/Rubio voters who reluctantly supported him in the first place. The problem throughout the whole primary was that the only way to stop Trump was with a political sacrifice, and no one was willing to do it. The field was so crowded that anyone who stood up to him would get attacked not only by trump but a good chunk of the other players on the field.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:43
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Fascists aren't minorities because they not people. They are just caricatures of the violence whose wanton lust for violence and power can only end in one way should they get elected. FactsAreUseless posted:Hate speech laws will hinder minorities now, it's not a matter of those laws potentially becoming a problem in the future. Hate speech laws don't address the underlying imbalance of political and economic power that creates problems in the first place. They would just be one more tool given to people who have power, for the exact reason that they are the people in power. They decide how these tools are used and laws are enforced. If you don't think they would be used to target protestors and anyone else who doesn't fight for their rights in a polite enough way, you're ignoring both history and political reality.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:45
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ComradeCosmobot posted:I see you haven't heard of ~technical analysis~ (because polls are just like the stock market) Oh that is incredible! Thanks for pointing out the technical analysis part, I thought it looked familiar.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:45
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AceOfFlames posted:OK, my turn to make a noob question: what are ~tildes~ around words supposed to mean? Does ~surrounding~ and putting only ~one mean different things? It's implied mockery of the phrase/word/idea
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Oct 16, 2016 18:46
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Dork457 posted:What's the difference in methodology between internal polls and the numbers we get? I always hear that "internal polls paint a different picture" etc etc, but I don't know why they would potentially be more accurate. Most internal polls are actually conducted by the same pollsters as public polls, they're just commissioned by the candidates themselves. The only reason that they really matter is that they're (potentially) targeted at areas that the campaign considers to be currently in play and they may be more up to date than the polls we get. They may also be based on a better demographic picture of the party's likely voters since that's information that a campaign would have, but that relies on the party not pulling a Mittens and ignoring demographic data to make themselves feel better. ComradeCosmobot posted:I see you haven't heard of ~technical analysis~ (because polls are just like the stock market) Technical analysis is such a great name for something that's almost literally stock astrology.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:46
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Pakled posted:Disenfranchising/killing people for their political beliefs sets a bad precedent, even if those political beliefs are actually horrible. Someone in power could make the argument that any ideology is as bad as fascism (even if it's not) and use that to push for non-deplorable ideologies to be banned too. The fact is that then everyone's dead already so lolnothingmatters! I'm kidding and wouldn't actually be for banning facism entirely, but I do think that there needs to be some intense work done on how to stop people from going for "THE OUTSIDER IS TO BLAME" as an answer to everything.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:49
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FactsAreUseless posted:This all still applies to "banning fascism" or whatever ill-considered idiot thing you're proposing. Have fun ensuring that only the bad opinions go away, and that groups with political power - and Trump and his supporters are unquestionably a demographic trying to maintain their power - don't use these laws to target political organizations they dislike. Trump won't care about whether or not these laws were already in place if he gets elected. He'd do them anyway. The only difference that one side inhabits this ahistorical view that democracies can't elect nationalist authoritarians and that nationalist authoritarians wouldn't change laws to suit them anyway. That's all contrary to the meaning of a dictator. If you truly care about minorities, ban people who have a history from hurting them from ever getting into power. Don't just count on people to make the right decision every single time.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:51
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Lord Hydronium posted:Agreed, but what do you think about his poll numbers? Awesome, thank you, giggling at one-take jokes like this has genuinely helped me in this election. E: wow, my tabs were left open a bit.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:51
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Fascists aren't minorities because they not people. They are just caricatures of the violence whose wanton lust for violence and power can only end in one way should they get elected. Indeed, history is defined by a fascist movement appearing, and then the police are like "should we squash it?" and then they poll all the hippies who say "no we should not! we shall withhold your billy clubs!" and then the police are all like "aw shucks". We need to remove the shackles of the state to destroy right wing authoritarianism once and for all!
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Oct 16, 2016 18:53
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:ban people who have a history from hurting them from ever getting into power
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Oct 16, 2016 18:53
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round 2 tweet drop https://twitter.com/allahpundit/status/787696342684438528 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/787699930718695425 Donald is crossing another line. https://twitter.com/dangallo/status/787700430105083904 pence is still a moron living in a different plane of reality. https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/787704384792698880 Another media interview video has hit the Trump! Not a pussy grab, but very gross.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:54
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Yeah, we should ban fascism and racism and all the other bad things. It would be cool if all those things went away forever, because of a ban. It would also be cool if if we had limitless free clean energy and we banned war, too.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:54
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Penisaurus Sex posted:Outlawing fascism doesn't actually do anything because at some point the fascist blob is going to be big enough, and pissed off enough, to not give a drat about laws they never had a chance to vote for. If you're really concerned about fascism, you address the reasons why it takes hold in a country. Namely, you have a large portion of your population that is disillusioned by traditional politics, in a state of heightened economic anxiety, and ready to turn to the first person who gives them a solution, even if that solution is terrible.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:55
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FactsAreUseless posted:Yeah, we should ban fascism and racism and all the other bad things. It would be cool if all those things went away forever, because of a ban. It would also be cool if if we had limitless free clean energy and we banned war, too. It'd show willing at least. But yeah, its not possible without putting too many resources into the fight, like the drugs war.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:55
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rscott posted:Heightened economic anxiety is bullshit, lower incomes are correlated with a higher level of Clinton support even amongst white people. These are just gross rear end white nationalists who have been enabled by the constant liberal equivocation that all ideas need to be considered equally even when they are utter bullshit and that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Again, if you think the economic problems that America has have nothing to do with fascism, what can you actually do to stop it? You can't legislate away racism and hate, sorry.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:56
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AceOfFlames posted:OK, my turn to make a noob question: what are ~tildes~ around words supposed to mean? Does ~surrounding~ and putting only ~one mean different things? I could be wrong and it has some other secret (((meaning))) but I've always seen surrounding tildes as stating that you should read the text in a mocking sing-song tone. Putting only one before a value means 'approximate' though (since ≈ isn't on the keyboard, ~ is easier.) NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 18:57
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Josef bugman posted:It'd show willing at least. But yeah, its not possible without putting too many resources into the fight than the drugs war. As a proposal, "let's ban fascism" is just "let's make bad things go away." It sounds good, it doesn't mean anything.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:57
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