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Flubby posted:I don't know about this Bernie 2020 talk. I love Bernie and all, but he's going to be so old. He was already old in 2016. Turns out, in 2020, he may be even older. its more like "Bernie please find us a candidate for 2020, ty"
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Nov 13, 2016 02:02
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The only umbrage I take with identity politics is when it subsumes progressive economics. There is no social justice without economic justice.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:02
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Peel posted:i normally thump a tub about race itt but i have definitely seen some nauseating poo poo from Sensible Liberals Who Are Definitely Good And Smart Look At This Graph I Have talking about poor white people and it's surreal how they manage to finish their thoughts without realising what they're doing. it's the same creepy feeling you get when pleasant europeans suddenly become klansmen when discussing roma Well I mean, it obviously is all racist, but they've had a metafilter banged into their minds that says anti-white prejudice can't be racist. "Demographics are destiny" is literally what animates the terror of all the white nationalists in the alt-right.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:04
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Darkman Fanpage posted:lmao hillery blaming comey. she has no self-awareness. shes right to lay blame on comey, but she should also be taking blame herself. plenty of loving blame to go around.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:05
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs The election in a nutshell.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:06
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I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are valuable parts of identity politics that should remain and I don't think it is completely incompatible with Marxist/Marxist-lite class politics. One thing that must go is the overemphasis on representation in politics and media. One of my favorite stories of the importance of representation is Nichelle Nichols wanting to quit Star Trek and MLK telling her that it's important for little black girls to see a black woman who is on TV and not just a maid. Mae Carol Jemison, the first black female astronaut, cites Uhura as an important inspiration for her own path to space exploration. That's loving awesome and I love that and we need more of that. However, Hillary being a woman, Huma Abedin being a Muslim-American woman, Donna Brazille being a black woman...none of this added up to a candidacy that women of color and white women found incredibly appealing. Representation matters but it can't be everything because being a woman doesn't mean you can't be oppressing women too. I should be high for this poo poo.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:06
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You guys are making me misty, I wish I could move to Point Pleasant, my favorite place in the world No jobs 
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Nov 13, 2016 02:07
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 lol?
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Nov 13, 2016 02:08
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It is time now for all believers to bow down and worship at the idol of Willa Rogers, who we know is the true Khaleesi of C-SPAM! Our Cassandra so often so right and yet receives such poo poo for it. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3680205&pagenumber=1146&perpage=40#post449513434 Willa Rogers posted:Let's see if the millennials actually come out to vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination. I don't think they will. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3680205&pagenumber=1145&perpage=40#post449512794 Willa Rogers posted:See, I see the exact opposite: Millennials will vote for Bernie in the primaries but if Hillary wins the nomination, say hello to Pres. Trump, because younger (and especially white male) voters would as soon drive nails through their eyes than vote for her. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3743840&pagenumber=117&perpage=40#post451755735 Willa Rogers posted:Yeah, shame about those backroom deals Obama made with PhRMA and the AHA, which effectively killed a public option + drug pricing controls. Too bad Pryor, Nelson & Lieberman held a gun to his head to make those deals, huh? http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3540057&pagenumber=50&perpage=40#post420761966 Willa Rogers posted:They are terrible. Luckily for Congress, it gets only the Gold-level plans that the ordinary joes can't afford.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:08
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about Congressional staffers having the same lovely plans. I'm consistent in my disdain toward the bronze and silver plans--you know, the ones most Americans who don't work for Congress are compelled to purchase from the one or two private insurers operating in their states--instead of maintaining it's good enough for thee but not for me.
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Larry Parrish posted:Racism is when you apply base assumptions, Institutional racism. If you don't have it behind you, you only have the power to be prejudiced not racist. Mainly because for the most part you can't harm the subjects of your preexisting views from a distance and without lifting a finger. Case in point, right now millions of Americans that may have never met a single representative of the minority and even immigrant groups they dislike have picked up the ability to make the lives of these people much much worse. It was out of anger. Anger that came from poverty yes, but minority groups can't punish the rest of the country for being disadvantaged. White people can. That's why they can be racist and we can't.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:09
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NumberLast posted:I grew up in coastal city la la land stronghold of liberal Democrats and we definitely do not learn about organized labor at all. Unless you take AP American History (or whatever they're calling it now) the Labor Movement in the US is basically a paragraph of text in a social studies class. This is one place that I go full Chris Hedges on things and will state, without a femtosecond of hesitation, that academia, sanctioned by the liberal elite, have fully glossed over an absolutely enormous part of our shared history. That they have fully capitulated to the worship of false meritocracy. I've gotten into it with my crunchy Seven Sisters and Ivy League friends about this, too. I don't think it got this heated since Occupy Wall Street when the locals sent huge numbers of shop members down to Zuccotti Park in solidarity and that union (no pun intended) lasted about a day. And yeah, I'm a card carrying shop member of the CSEA.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:09
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Fidel Castronaut posted:I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are valuable parts of identity politics that should remain and I don't think it is completely incompatible with Marxist/Marxist-lite class politics. One thing that must go is the overemphasis on representation in politics and media. One of my favorite stories of the importance of representation is Nichelle Nichols wanting to quit Star Trek and MLK telling her that it's important for little black girls to see a black woman who is on TV and not just a maid. Mae Carol Jemison, the first black female astronaut, cites Uhura as an important inspiration for her own path to space exploration. That's loving awesome and I love that and we need more of that. However, Hillary being a woman, Huma Abedin being a Muslim-American woman, Donna Brazille being a black woman...none of this added up to a candidacy that women of color and white women found incredibly appealing. Representation matters but it can't be everything because being a woman doesn't mean you can't be oppressing women too. Not only are identity politics and marxism compatible, they're inseparable. The problem is social analysis without class analysis (the raison d'etre of the Democrats in the past 20 years) is regressive as hell by way of artificially dividing the working class against itself. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 13, 2016 02:09
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Vox Nihili posted:shes right to lay blame on comey, but she should also be taking blame herself. plenty of loving blame to go around. Yeah, she can't blame Comey without having to admit her campaign was a fragile little soap bubble that would pop in a light breeze. More email stuff sank her? Against Trump? In that case she was already doomed.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:09
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Jaminjami posted:
christ, they're gonna "learn" the lesson but be entirely inauthentic about it like the republicans are, aren't they? and once they "learn" that lesson, they're going to prevent anyone with any sort of authenticity towards that message from actually accomplishing it.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:10
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TyroneGoldstein posted:Unless you take AP American History (or whatever they're calling it now) the Labor Movement in the US is basically a paragraph of text in a social studies class. This is one place that I go full Chris Hedges on things and will state, without a femtosecond of hesitation, that academia, sanctioned by the liberal elite, have fully glossed over an absolutely enormous part of our shared history. That they have fully capitulated to the worship of false meritocracy. I took IB History of the Americas, which mostly focused on the various anti-colonial revolutions.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:10
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Paolomania posted:It is time now for all believers to bow down and worship at the idol of Willa Rogers, who we know is the true Khaleesi of C-SPAM! Our Cassandra so often so right and yet receives such poo poo for it. Is this why Willa got ran out of D&D because lol
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Nov 13, 2016 02:12
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Paolomania posted:It is time now for all believers to bow down and worship at the idol of Willa Rogers, who we know is the true Khaleesi of C-SPAM! Our Cassandra so often so right and yet receives such poo poo for it. lmao
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Nov 13, 2016 02:12
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Zonekeeper posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs This vid gets thrown around a lot lately, but he's punching left way too much to take his analysis seriously.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:13
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TyroneGoldstein posted:Unless you take AP American History (or whatever they're calling it now) the Labor Movement in the US is basically a paragraph of text in a social studies class. This is one place that I go full Chris Hedges on things and will state, without a femtosecond of hesitation, that academia, sanctioned by the liberal elite, have fully glossed over an absolutely enormous part of our shared history. That they have fully capitulated to the worship of false meritocracy. I talked to an English professor at church a few months ago about how adjuncts are being treated. I asked if they had unionized and he asked me when has unionization ever helped a worker
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Nov 13, 2016 02:14
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hey dems
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Nov 13, 2016 02:14
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Smoking Crow posted:I talked to an English professor at church a few months ago about how adjuncts are being treated. I asked if they had unionized and he asked me when has unionization ever helped a worker un-unionized labor hates unionized labor with a unique passion
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Nov 13, 2016 02:16
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NumberLast posted:Not only are identity politics and marxism compatible, they're inseparable.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:17
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Smoking Crow posted:I talked to an English professor at church a few months ago about how adjuncts are being treated. I asked if they had unionized and he asked me when has unionization ever helped a worker I'm honestly going to say I'm impressed because at universities, especially in States that haven't eviscerated labor protections, the faculty union is usually the strongest entity on the campus. I mean we're talking they get some serious perks.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:17
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Smoking Crow posted:I talked to an English professor at church a few months ago about how adjuncts are being treated. I asked if they had unionized and he asked me when has unionization ever helped a worker That is especially weird considering I guarantee he is a union member and is very interested in how the union negotiates his contracts.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:17
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Karl Barks posted:hey dems Hey progs! How was the fireplace while we were voting?
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Nov 13, 2016 02:18
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Kinda off topic but related to chat that happened here back a bit, does anyone have any links to clear explanations about whether or not accepting poor immigrants makes it harder for working class people to find jobs? I kinda suspect it does at least in the short term but would like to read what people have to say. (Or should I take this to another place)
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Nov 13, 2016 02:19
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Honestly, it's kind of depressing that "Identity politics" doesn't automatically bring personal means to mind, as that's definitely a huge part of identity.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:19
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Fidel Castronaut posted:That is especially weird considering I guarantee he is a union member and is very interested in how the union negotiates his contracts. Exactly. I worked in a University and adjuncts are normally covered by the adjunct's Union.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:20
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You need a good base message to start with and the economy(re: getting hosed by the rich/whites/men) is something every one of the Democrat's base groups can relate to. From there you can easily tailor you message to specific groups but in the end the message is still the same.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:20
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TyroneGoldstein posted:I'm honestly going to say I'm impressed because at universities, especially in States that haven't eviscerated labor protections, the faculty union is usually the strongest entity on the campus. I mean we're talking they get some serious perks. Fidel Castronaut posted:That is especially weird considering I guarantee he is a union member and is very interested in how the union negotiates his contracts. Ohio State University doesn't have a professor's union
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Nov 13, 2016 02:20
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Princess Di posted:Hey progs! apparently u weren't voting LOL
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Nov 13, 2016 02:21
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Princess Di posted:Institutional racism. Hillary did worse with every minority demographic than Obama. You can't just draw the end of your analysis here without tangling with the issue of why 8% of the black vote went to Trump. How many of those voters were motivated by hatred of Hispanics or Muslims? How many are simply a traitorous bourgeoisie? There is for sure, far more racial motivation among whites than any other group, but racism won on the margins - it wasn't all white folks.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:24
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:No, this is exactly what I was looking for, thanks. I am taking history as major in college right now and i feel the same way and i am thier age plus i need the healthcare. i feel likes its matter of them wanting to FEEL right and good, rather then actualy do things. plus more stuff i assume. when i have seen it's very rairly minority students, its well off white kids with a chip on their shoulder. Fidel Castronaut posted:I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are valuable parts of identity politics that should remain and I don't think it is completely incompatible with Marxist/Marxist-lite class politics. One thing that must go is the overemphasis on representation in politics and media. One of my favorite stories of the importance of representation is Nichelle Nichols wanting to quit Star Trek and MLK telling her that it's important for little black girls to see a black woman who is on TV and not just a maid. Mae Carol Jemison, the first black female astronaut, cites Uhura as an important inspiration for her own path to space exploration. That's loving awesome and I love that and we need more of that. However, Hillary being a woman, Huma Abedin being a Muslim-American woman, Donna Brazille being a black woman...none of this added up to a candidacy that women of color and white women found incredibly appealing. Representation matters but it can't be everything because being a woman doesn't mean you can't be oppressing women too. 100% agreed. i think its more how they do it and not what they are saying(well partly what they are saying) you basicaly need to fight for both the minorites and the working/rural whites. and you can do both. http://fredrikdeboer.com/2015/03/10/critique-drift/ http://fredrikdeboer.com/2015/01/29/i-dont-know-what-to-do-you-guys/ this guy explains it better then me.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:24
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Smoking Crow posted:Ohio State University doesn't have a professor's union Haha what the gently caress. They don't even have right-to-work in Ohio, what is OSU doing? Either way, I'm in a grad student union, which is super rare, and it owns because I get a very good stipend and I get health, dental, and optical insurance. That poo poo has helped this worker plenty. Tell that guy he can get his PhD in sucking my dick.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:25
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:No, this is exactly what I was looking for, thanks. Omg, they absolutely fear for their healthcare and plenty of young minorities have kids to care for. How blacks are affected and treated in this country absolutely affects their experiences attempting to get and maintain healthcare as well as their ability to care for their kids. You realize it's more difficult to get birth control, healthcare, pain management, physical therapy, good schools, passable schools, money to feed those kids, ability to be found eligible for food stamps vs their counter parts in rural areas, or any other type of government assistance compared to their rural counterparts. Then there is the criminalization of young black people. Yeah identity politics are "a distraction".
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Nov 13, 2016 02:29
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 anime was right posted:how loving terrible is the hillary campaign lmao anime was right posted:the debate will be hillary doing a bunch of word salad and then at the end of each word salad top it with a bit of "and my opponent is a failure since he declared bankruptcy four times" and trump will get a little annoyed and say stupid crap and somehow he'll go up in the polls and nothing matters anime was right posted:so is hillary winning in like every swing state but barely winning nationally a sign that she's just losing by higher %s in red states than she's winning in blue ones? anime was right posted:is clinton gonna run a good "hey vote for me and not against the other guy" ad this season or what
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Nov 13, 2016 02:29
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(i got a ton of poo poo wrong too but shhh)
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Nov 13, 2016 02:30
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Princess Di posted:Institutional racism. When did people agree on this new definition of the word "Racism"? I hear it a lot, but I never got the memo.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:30
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I am taking history as major in college right now and i feel the same way and i am thier age plus i need the healthcare. i feel likes its matter of them wanting to FEEL right and good, rather then actualy do things. plus more stuff i assume. when i have seen it's very rairly minority students, its well off white kids with a chip on their shoulder. If you want a good time, start researching primary documents written by slave masters while you still have access to a university library. The 19th Century South was like if alt right dweebs were allowed to run society.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:31
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Cubey posted:sanders is good people and if he feels he's the only hope for the dems in 2020 i think he will do it even if it literally kills him I think this is absolutely true. I also think that he's a shrewd and careful man, and will have people in place to take up and carry on if it does.
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