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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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JFairfax posted:yeah but you might as well not loving bother at that point. It's nothing like getting divorced. Divorced means not seeing each other again, or extremely limited contact afterwards. This is like getting divorced, and then haggling on how much sex or use of the washing machine will cost afterwards. But with Brexit its going to be haggling for sex from 27 different people, and acting surprised that it was higher than before.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:16
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Private Speech posted:It's funny how much this thread moved towards a pro-brexit stance since the referendum. With my view of "even the libdem stance is wayy too Eurosceptic" (much as I understand the political realities of anti-immigration sentiment and Brexit happening no matter what) I feel pretty lonely here these days. I'll keep you company. It's a retarded idea and the UK hasn't even begun to grasp the concept of how much damage it'll do. However it may be, people with half a brain should try to reverse it.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:16
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Private Speech posted:It's funny how much this thread moved towards a pro-brexit stance since the referendum. With my view of "even the libdem stance is wayy too Eurosceptic" (much as I understand the political realities of anti-immigration sentiment and Brexit happening no matter what) I feel pretty lonely here these days. Na. I'm not pro-Brexit (while it does enable the Literal Full Communism Now I mentioned, that's not actually a thing that's going to happen). I'd rather Remain, but I've accepted that's not going to happen either.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:16
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Corbyn had the right stance on Brexit to avoid electoral annihilation.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:16
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Tons of us think Brexit is a horrible idea that will suck tbf, it's just the alternative is worse. I've said it before, but if there was ever a population I did NOT want to teach that democracy didn't work...
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Jun 29, 2017 16:17
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Private Speech posted:It's funny how much this thread moved towards a pro-brexit stance since the referendum. With my view of "even the libdem stance is wayy too Eurosceptic" (much as I understand the political realities of anti-immigration sentiment and Brexit happening no matter what) I feel pretty lonely here these days. To be honest, the second referendum manfiesto promise was a stupid fudge that was written to make it easier for Norman Lamb to keep his seat. FWIW, I know the membership does not want Brexit at all.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:17
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feedmegin posted:I, err, what. We like our Corbs but he isn't actually Lenin you know. Also, hard brexit would be the only way we could do really radical stuff like nationalising industries by fiat and seizing the property of the rich. The EU kind of frowns on that stuff, and the more so the closer your integration with them. He's not lenin, but he's more likely to negotiate a brexit that is less damaging for the UK while opening the door for further severance of ties with the EU. That's just not something the Tories want. The EU maintains its relations by making leaving the union a damaging proposition. If a country manages to keep what europeans like (freedom of movement and safety regulation) without losing what they dislike, then smaller countries see less reason to stay.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:18
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Pissflaps posted:I'm anti Brexit. It's a silly idea. Well, yes, I meant other people. I don't think it will be a massive disaster for the economy either, more of a slowdown of economic growth than anything. Then again I was wrong about both Miliband and Corbyn, sooo.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:18
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Private Speech posted:It's funny how much this thread moved towards a pro-brexit stance since the referendum. With my view of "even the libdem stance is wayy too Eurosceptic" (much as I understand the political realities of anti-immigration sentiment and Brexit happening no matter what) I feel pretty lonely here these days. Nah, it's okay, Brexit's a loving stupid idea, the wind just needs to turn on it more before it's worth fighting on in parliament. The Lib Dems can keep fighting on it, since they don't matter anyway and don't have anything else to lose.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:18
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The news that the Tories are setting up a fund to cover NI women's abortion is being welcomed with delight from all corners, as far as I can see. I'm personally shaking with fury. In the run up to Christmas last year, my ex-sister in law was diagnosed with a fatal foetal abnormality. The bad one, about which there is no question, no hope. The baby had no skull, and it's organs were growing outside of the body. She already has two little children and that pregnancy was very much welcomed and wanted, and the news that the baby would not survive pregnancy and labour and there would be literally no help available to her from the local NHS drove her right out of her mind. My ex was on the phone to me, one of the few vocally pro-choice people he knows, asking what to do as there is no information available and certainly no general knowledge about abortion in the north (I directed them to the Liverpool women's hospital, who take care of FFA for Irish women) while she screamed and cried and smashed stuff in the background. It was incredibly distressing for her and for all of us who love her. We all agreed to help cover her costs, which were around the 2k mark, but a women's charity stepped in and helped her out by covering some of the procedure costs, flights and accommodation. She flew to Liverpool and had the pregnancy terminated, and flew back to await the return of the remains, which arrive in a cardboard box delivered by courier several weeks later. She has had to concoct a story about losing the baby in a local hospital as the stigma regarding flying to England to abort is so great back home that she would be a pariah and subject to abuse, medical reasons be damned. The only thing that the new proposals will change for someone in her situation is that they will now also have to apply to a government agency to commission the procedure for them. This is also just another instance of the Tories finding the magical money tree mysteriously appearing when they're facing a challenge. They aren't giving anyone any rights. They aren't changing any laws. They're not giving NI women the same entitlements as other women who pay into the NHS. They're throwing money at a Stella Creasy-shaped problem to make it go away, and it's working.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:20
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For the record I don't deny that brexit is going to suck for the UK a -lot- short and midterm. I'm just optimistic that it can be a chance to weaken the global push for austerity, and open the door for socialist and communist policies. If I for some strange reason had the ability to vote on your referendums, I would have probably voted Remain because brexit is going to be a really, really painful process for impoverished brits.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:22
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I personally think that Brexit is bad and shouldn't happen, but the best way to get out of the Brexit conundrum is to negotiate a (bad) deal, which is what any Brexit deal will be, and then take it back to the British people and get them to reject it once the exact terms of how hosed we are set, and then revoke article 50 under the "political change" clause, and try and keep the government afloat.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:22
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Deadline for NI talks extended until monday
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Jun 29, 2017 16:24
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number one pta fan posted:https://twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/880406951158583296 I don't get it are we expecting dup to drop the tories over this?
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Jun 29, 2017 16:25
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I trust Big Jez on Brexit.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:26
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Sarah Bellum posted:This is also just another instance of the Tories finding the magical money tree mysteriously appearing when they're facing a challenge. They aren't giving anyone any rights. They aren't changing any laws. They're not giving NI women the same entitlements as other women who pay into the NHS. They're throwing money at a Stella Creasy-shaped problem to make it go away, and it's working. This is entirely my opinion as well. They've come up with the most Tory solution possible and rather than support universal access regardless of specific residence and completely throw out the principle underpinning the policy they've chucked some money into a relief pot to mitigate temporary political damage Its a half measure but depressingly will be enough to steady tory backbenchers who's main concern is APPEARING to give a gently caress
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Jun 29, 2017 16:28
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Mu. posted:I trust Big Jez on Brexit. I don't trust the leadership of either party on Brexit.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:28
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CoolCab posted:Tons of us think Brexit is a horrible idea that will suck tbf, it's just the alternative is worse. I've said it before, but if there was ever a population I did NOT want to teach that democracy didn't work... I'm pretty convinced it already doesn't work, tbh. I've spoken to far too many complete idiots who don't understand anything who, nonetheless, are amazingly consistent voters, to think that it's a decent system of government. A random sample of complaints: 1. The council's bad because it buys private police from london, who do something bad that was never elaborated on. 2. The government turned all the roads here into bus lanes, which is offensive to drivers. We were standing next to the road; cars were driving past. 3. "You get more in benefits than you do being at work, and that's wrong". 4. There are too many people coming over here, which is why there's no school places anymore (in an area with something like a 99% white-british population). 5. There has never been a civilisation in the middle east*. People are loving morons. *I forgot my usual doorstep demeanour and said "What, not even Egypt?", and got "That's in asia". Grate Britane 
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Jun 29, 2017 16:28
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Kurtofan posted:I don't get it Nah, we're expecting it to create a first crack in the alliance, highlight the dinosaur-rear end attitudes of the DUP and embarrass the government by folding to a Queen's Speech amendment. It's doing that fine.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:28
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Neurolimal posted:For the record I don't deny that brexit is going to suck for the UK a -lot- short and midterm. I'm just optimistic that it can be a chance to weaken the global push for austerity, and open the door for socialist and communist policies. Christine Lagarde has since became an anti-austerity speaker (particularly with underdeveloped countries like mine), but then it begs the question why the gently caress you twats decide to speak against it once you are out of the job for all I know Juncker will be pretty "actually socialism is a bit necessary" once he retires after loving all the small EU member economies
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Jun 29, 2017 16:28
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It should be noted the Mail's lead editorial today was about the extension of abortion rights to NI (in the context of arguing against the politicisation of the BMA) in which they both explicitly opposed the idea and also opposed any additional funding for charities who worked with that.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:29
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Neurolimal posted:For the record I don't deny that brexit is going to suck for the UK a -lot- short and midterm. I'm just optimistic that it can be a chance to weaken the global push for austerity, and open the door for socialist and communist policies. How is Brexit going to do this? I think Brexit is meant to reduce social and regulatory practices. The Tories want it done asap so they can ramp up Austerity, and call it patriotism.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:29
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Sarah Bellum posted:The news that the Tories are setting up a fund to cover NI women's abortion is being welcomed with delight from all corners, as far as I can see. I'm personally shaking with fury. wow. thats terrible, so medical reasons are even banned? :/ bizarre.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:31
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Creasy is refusing to pull amendment until she gets more details. Votes in half an hour that'll be a fun talk.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:32
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In retrospect, the Ottoman or Persian empire is probably a more obviously middle-eastern empire, but given Egypt's one of the great civilisations of the classical period it sprung to mind first. I guess it shouldn't be surprising the kind of people who vote tory think the middle east's just been sand and goats forever, though.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:33
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Fans posted:Creasy is refusing to pull amendment until she gets more details. Votes in half an hour that'll be a fun talk. good for her, the tory proposal seems a bit bollocks
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Jun 29, 2017 16:33
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Gradis posted:wow. thats terrible, so medical reasons are even banned? :/ bizarre. This is because anti-abortion dialogue has always been about oppressing women.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:34
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Private Speech posted:It's funny how much this thread moved towards a pro-brexit stance since the referendum. With my view of "even the libdem stance is wayy too Eurosceptic" (much as I understand the political realities of anti-immigration sentiment and Brexit happening no matter what) I feel pretty lonely here these days. you're fighting a battle that we already lost, comrade
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Jun 29, 2017 16:35
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spectralent posted:I'm pretty convinced it already doesn't work, tbh. I've spoken to far too many complete idiots who don't understand anything who, nonetheless, are amazingly consistent voters, to think that it's a decent system of government. I think there should be a general knowledge politics test before you can vote. If you cant name the parties, your local people you are voting for, don't know their policies, you cant vote. And to balance it out every political party has to send out the answers to these in every leaflet drop they do. And yeah current people are idiots. What UK town was it that voted 86% leave, then realized that the EU was paying for their inner city rejuvenation for the next 10 years?
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Jun 29, 2017 16:36
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communism bitch posted:The most striking thing to me about this latest vatican scandal is not that God's no.3 is a nonce (wbich i take as a given) but that God's no.3 is a bank manager. Have you never heard of the Vatican Bank? Because hoo boy they're shady even by Vatican standards
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Jun 29, 2017 16:36
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Pissflaps posted:Yeah you can. In theory? Yes. In practice, and with Team May in charge? 
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Jun 29, 2017 16:37
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Sarah Bellum posted:The news that the Tories are setting up a fund to cover NI women's abortion is being welcomed with delight from all corners, as far as I can see. I'm personally shaking with fury. I've also had close second-hand experience around medically necessary abortion, but don't live in Northern Ireland so can't speak for what your friend experienced. It's not right what happened to them. Isn't it better that something is done, rather than nothing in this instance? Progress can be made, women who would otherwise have to experience what your ex-sister in law did could have their suffering eased somewhat with increased funding for charities that support this. I get what you're saying that this isn't enough and I agree but when a government as callous as this holds out a scrap you have to take it. Roll on the next parliament where real reforms can be made.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:37
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Gradis posted:wow. thats terrible, so medical reasons are even banned? :/ bizarre. Only if the life of the mother is at risk, so my SiL's only option would have been to make a serious enough attempt on her own life, and find sympathetic doctors who wouldn't section her instead (this actually happens). https://www.mariestopes.org.uk/overseas-clients-abortion/irish/abortion-and-law/abortion-criteria-northern-ireland
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Jun 29, 2017 16:38
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happyhippy posted:I think there should be a general knowledge politics test before you can vote. I have no idea but I remember watching an interview on the news where some bozo came out all pumped about "BRITUN'S INDEPENDENCE DAY  " and the interviewer asked him if he was aware the community center he'd just exited was paid for with EU money."Oh, I wasn't, actually." "Do you think that might've affected your vote?" "...Yeah, probably, maybe."
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Jun 29, 2017 16:38
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happyhippy posted:haggling for sex from 27 different people, and acting surprised that it was higher than before. How did you get hold of Gideon's diary?
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Jun 29, 2017 16:39
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happyhippy posted:How is Brexit going to do this? Even aside from any concrete policies, just surviving a brexit without becoming Greece will be a fairly large blow to the IMF. Under tories, their goal is to either negotiate a brexit deal completely unacceptable to the people, or one that complicates relations to an extent that it inexplicably becomes harder to disengage from EU influence. Under Labour, I assume we would see a brexit that retains access to the market albeit with tariffs importing and exporting, no fiscal control over the UK, and allows freedom of movement that becomes restricted temporarily if one chooses to study within the UK. Those are just the best-case policies I can think of off the top of my head. Brexit as it was sold to the people is, strangely, not too different from what a socialist government would do (which was why it was so strange to see some tories behind it); more funding for the NHS! More jobs! More local investment! It might not match up to the crazy figures farage & co. were throwing out, but I think Corbyn's plans would be fairly consistent and solidify UKIP -> Labour voters.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:40
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Sarah Bellum posted:Only if the life of the mother is at risk, so my SiL's only option would have been to make a serious enough attempt on her own life, and find sympathetic doctors who wouldn't section her instead (this actually happens). That's absolutely disgusting.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:40
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The DPRK posted:I've also had close second-hand experience around medically necessary abortion, but don't live in Northern Ireland so can't speak for what your friend experienced. It's not right what happened to them. The trouble with half measures is that they take a lot of the support away from full measures. People who don't follow things in detail see that something has been done, and drop the measure; Tories will point to this measure as a reason not to interfere with Northern Ireland further.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:42
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If by some exchange of cosmic karma we left the EU but ended up with socialists in government, I would consider that a fair trade. Especially after I went to Corb's talk the other day. He really is too loving good for this world.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:44
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The DPRK posted:I've also had close second-hand experience around medically necessary abortion, but don't live in Northern Ireland so can't speak for what your friend experienced. It's not right what happened to them. It's an objectively good thing to aid with abortions in NI but there's no actual guarantee the Tories will do it. They've said they will, but they also tell us there's a strong economy and that the NHS is well-funded. It's absolutely correct for Sarah to be infuriated at this political theatre.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:46
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