Xenoborg posted:

3/4 brother is a new one to me:

knox_harrington posted:

gently caress it, sounds like the parents not only own the company but have all the liability as well, and none of the expertise. Quit the company, set up your own with that $500k, take the customers.

SpelledBackwards posted:

So... a regular old first cousin, then? WTF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin

bob dobbs is dead posted:

divabot wrote it up on his site, talked about it in the yospos buttcoin thread

MisterOblivious posted:

https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/06/24/initiative-q-a-non-crypto-private-currency-marketed-by-pyramid-scheme/

SpelledBackwards posted:

So... a regular old first cousin, then? WTF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin

Splicer posted:

...have the same mother and their fathers are brothers, or same father and their mothers are sisters.

VitalSigns posted:

quote:

i understand the cheering at the markets going down but as someone who works most commonly with people that have quite low net worths often tied to some bizarre stock mixture it tends to effect them a shitload more because they dont have the ability to withstand downturns nor the education to ride it out so they quite literally sell low and buy high over and over and over and its pretty depressing

The stock market is a rigged casino where the rich trick you into playing and steal all your money.

Sorry about your friends, but their paper wealth never existed any more than the paper wealth of Madoff's investors

VitalSigns posted:

quote:

this is a stupid take

My bad, keep investing your retirement in the perfectly rational market

VitalSigns posted:

quote:

um yes, you should absolutely do this, in an index fund, because when you're saving for retirement you are working on a long enough time horizon that you'll outlast the next slump/recession/etc and you would be leaving stupendous amounts of money on the table by keeping it in a savings or checking account

Right exponential growth always lasts forever, sounds like a great concept to bet your future on

VitalSigns posted:

If you think it's a great idea money to dump money into index funds on the assumption that someone else will always be there to pay more for them then you did when you need the money despite vulture capitalists hollowing out the economy and forcing more and more people into poverty, go for it.

VitalSigns posted:

I think this idea that 401k's are going to secure your retirement is a myth. Like if markets were perfectly rational, then as an atomized individual sure owning a piece of a company you expect to generate future profits might work, but there's a fallacy of composition here. If everyone is just dumping their money into index funds then prices aren't really a rational expectation of future profits anymore, they just represent a hope that someone else will be along to pay even more for those shares than we did forty years hence. And in the real world CEOs are looting the hell out of their companies and leaving shareholders and workers holding the bag.

This pollyannaish idea that markets always go up when you take the long view goes back basically 60 years, ignores plenty of examples of stock markets in some countries just bottoming out and disappearing, and depends on assuming an unprecedented post-war period of economic prosperity will continue forever.

But whatevs I'm just some idiot on a dead hetero comedy forum, all the capitalists tell you to put your money in the market, and they're all rich so they must know what they are talking about.

I don't think individuals have meaningful options in our system, just constrained choices between various bad and worse options

VitalSigns posted:

Hmmm

Downside of Automatic 401(k) Savings: More Debt. New research finds employees auto-enrolled in retirement plans borrow more than they otherwise would have, offsetting savings

Numlock posted:

Not agreeing with vital signs but I’m finding it harder and harder to believe that 401ks and the like aren’t different than bitcoins given the apparent disconnect between the stock market and what I see every day.

knox_harrington posted:

gently caress it, sounds like the parents not only own the company but have all the liability as well, and none of the expertise. Quit the company, set up your own with that $500k, take the customers.

knox_harrington posted:

gently caress it, sounds like the parents not only own the company but have all the liability as well, and none of the expertise. Quit the company, set up your own with that $500k, take the customers.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The stock market is a rigged casino where the rich trick you into playing and steal all your money.

Sorry about your friends, but their paper wealth never existed any more than the paper wealth of Madoff's investors

BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:

There are a lot of dumb takes in here and the argument that capital investment virtually always produces a return is pretty strong historically speaking even if isolated examples of capital markets have collapsed. It is fair to criticize the United States system of 401k and related entities as an unnecessarily complicated and over-regulated yet still somehow very incomplete retirement savings vehicle that primarily serves as a huge tax break to already rich people while leaving everyone else to attempt to survive on Social Security

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

That's a fine point to make.

Arguing that a checking account will outperform an IRA over the course of your life, that bitcoin and stock are the same thing, and that mutual funds are a scam designed by the banking industry to extract more fees than people would get buying individual stocks are not really a part of that point.

Saying, "You should eat less fatty foods." is a fine point. Saying, "You need to eat less fatty foods because the illuminati mind control serum is only fat-soluble and that is how they get you." is probably not coming from someone looking to make a well-founded critique of the food pyramid.

totalnewbie posted:

Their cleaver is 205 bucks. You can get one from a Chinese market for 20 and it's just as good.

quote:

My wife and I are in our late 20s. We have 3 kids, and a LOT of debt. My wife and I are fully aware we have bad money management skills. We are realizing how bad with how we are in more debt now then a few years ago and we have been "trying" to pay it down.

Either something comes up (car breaks down, we forget about car insurance or car license tags are due, other emergencies) or something comes out that I usually want to buy.

We have 12 credit cards, all are maxed out. It totals to about $49,000. We have a credit card consolidation loan of $9,100 (This was our first time around of trying, it obviously didn't work out). We both have car loans, each of us have about $13,000 left on the loan. We recently got a judgment against us for $1900 from an old landlord we forgot about from a few years ago. We owe the IRS $4100 because we got audited and didn't claim enough income. We also owe $134,000 in student loans between the 2 of us.

​

12 credit cards = $49,000 total

2 cars = $26,000 total

Credit card consolidation loan = $9,100

Judgment = $1,900

IRS = $4,100

Student Loans = $134,000

​

Writing this out, I have no clue how we let it get this bad. We make a decent wage for our area. We net on average $6,800 a month after taxes. The problem is, we can only afford to pay the minimums on everything so nothing ever gets paid off.

My wife and I finally discussed bankruptcy and getting a fresh start but we can't even really do that. Our income is a couple thousand over the median income for a family of 5 and since we don't own a house, we are far away from passing the means test. If we did chapter 13, our disposable income was calculated to be $2,800 every month which is really no different then what we're already doing, only difference being that in 5 years, everything would be discharged.

This is probably a stupid idea but we also talked about just stop paying all unsecured debt and focus on one card at a time and focus on getting rid of the small balance cards first. I figure the late fees on the small balance fees would cost more then the interest on the high balance cards.

​

We would appreciate any help. We make decent money and everyones happy but we're not making progress. Thanks

​

Edit: Added full month budget

Rent is $1450
Judgment payment plan is $175
School lunches is $120 per month
Student loans is $800 per month (already at the lowest graduated extended plan)
Cell phone is $175
Internet is $120
My car is $318
Her car is $308
Netflix is $11
Water/Sewage/Garbage is $70
Electric/Gas is $120
Food (groceries and out to eat) is $800 for family of 5
Toiletries (shampoo, toilet paper, deodorant, etc) is $100
Vehicle gas is $200 on average for both of us
Average clothing expense broken down monthly is around $50
Average medical expense brown down monthly is about $65
Car insurance broken down monthly is about $150
Car tags broken down monthly is about $65
Unsecured Debt

Credit card consolidation loan - balance of 9100, installment payment of $465
Credit card - balance of 7100, min payment of $214
Credit card - balance of 3498, min payment of $115
Credit card - balance of 5545, min payment of $161
Credit card - balance of 5899, min payment of $236
Credit card - balance of 1990, min payment of $69
Credit card - balance of 3163, min payment of $99
Credit card - balance of 1415, min payment of $57
Credit card - balance of 835, min payment of $38
Credit card - balance of 1592, min payment of $50
Credit card - balance of 804, min payment of $41
Credit card - balance of 1992, min payment of $59
Unknown

IRS - balance of 4100, no payment plan created yet
Paypal Credit - balance of 6000, I don't have access to the account anymore so I'm not actually sure the status of this.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

That's a fine point to make.

Arguing that a checking account will outperform an IRA over the course of your life, that bitcoin and stock are the same thing, and that mutual funds are a scam designed by the banking industry to extract more fees than people would get buying individual stocks are not really a part of that point.

Saying, "You should eat less fatty foods." is a fine point. Saying, "You need to eat less fatty foods because the illuminati mind control serum is only fat-soluble and that is how they get you." is probably not coming from someone looking to make a well-founded critique of the food pyramid.

Bird in a Blender posted:

I don't understand the reason they can't declare bankruptcy because they don't own a home. Can someone explain that?

Bird in a Blender posted:

I don't understand the reason they can't declare bankruptcy because they don't own a home. Can someone explain that?

Either way, the expenses they listed are $5,100/mo, with $6,800/mo income. They can't pay all of those minimums right now. I don't see anyway out of this besides bankruptcy to at least get all of the CC debt mostly wiped out. Anything that involves fully paying all that back would take them forever.

Power of Pecota posted:

Horse Daddy would be an absolutely sick gang tag

Power of Pecota posted:

Horse Daddy would be an absolutely sick gang tag

Murderball posted:

Does TVsVeryOwn post here?

Raldikuk posted:

To declare Chapter 7 BK you need to be able to pass the "means test". There are two ways to do so; 1) make under the median income for your state based on household size and you automatically are determined to have passed the means test 2) if you make over the median for your state then you have to go through and itemize all of your expenses and demonstrate an inability to pay. #2 is substantially harder to do but for a family of 5 with their income they should be able to still pass it; I doubt they spoke with a lawyer to figure it out.

With their income and student loan debt as well they should be able to qualify for an Income Driven Repayment plan to lower monthly payments rather than sticking to graduated extended. That assumes the loans were originated when IDRs existed; which given their age seems likely. Getting the student loans onto an IDR and Ch 7 would be their magic bullet; but even Ch 13 would be a good idea given the extent of the debt. I am a bit amused that he comes out saying "basically the same except they get discharged in 5 years" as if that isn't a huge perk versus never ever being able to pay it off because of penalties and compound interest.

Unfortunately for them they still are deluded enough to think that forgetting to pay your car tabs is an "emergency" versus a lack of foresight so no matter which avenue of relief they pick they'll be in the same exact place in <10 years guaranteed.

Power of Pecota posted:

Horse Daddy would be an absolutely sick gang tag

Senor Dog posted:

What happens if they need to declare bankruptcy again? Can they do that or does the judge tell them to piss off?

TraderStav posted:

How many gang tags can you have? I ain't getting rid of my tag!

Baronjutter posted:

Motronic posted:

Just wanna drop this here:

Elephanthead posted:

Can I replace the paddle wheels with a generator and have horse powered BIT coin mining rigs?

quote:

I got a doozy, for you bankruptcy folks..

TLDR- Debt company bought 15k worth of outstanding tax liens, and now facing forclosure. Income records are fictitious/incorrect for at least 10 years. Is chapter 13 going to be an option to save the home?

One of my dad's friends (67 years old, ohio) has held tough since my father's passing. Great guy, and honestly the only "parental" figure Ive had for the last 15 years. But, he's in some trouble.

He inherited a house from his brother about 5 years ago, and hasn't paid his land taxes since he signed the deed. He lets his wife handle all the financial chores of the house, and she has a knack for ignoring elephants.. A company has bought the tax certificates and now has filed for forclosure. (About 15k owed) .

Now the sticky part.. About 10 years ago he asked me for some work to make ends meet. (I own a remodeling business) . He secured all his insurances and I gave him sub contracts for odd jobs on my board.. 1099 at the end of the year. Over the course of years, the subcontracts became his sole source of income.. I 1099 him on average 45k annually over the last 5 years.

Come to find out, He's been filing his 1099 as a W-2 on a 1040EZ, as he had done with his W-2 from his previous job.. and.. pulling a 4k tax return without any quarterly payments in.. none... He hasn't been contacted by the IRS, nor have I, but I digress.

Question being, Is he able to file Chapter 13 to save his home, without having any "legal" record of income? The tax thing is a problem, I know, but the pressing issue is the forclosure. Is a chapter 13 going to bring a firestorm of tax issues for him? For ME?? Is chapter 7 a better option for him? Is ANYTHING an option besides packing up and moving?

I know he needs a lawyer, but I like using Reddit as a sounding board before decisions are carried out. You guys have a knack for bringing up things I never considered.. which in turn gives me good ammo for any discussions with professionals..