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JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

Srice posted:

Evermore has some high highs and low lows. But heck, as a kid that bazaar really made up for those stupid mazes. It's a really fun part of the game and I dig it every time!

Yeah I agree. That Bazaar was kickass. Exploring and finding secrets was pretty fun in Evermore, especially trying to get all the alchemy recipes and stuff. Honestly I'd rate SoM and Evermore as among the best SNES games in their own respective ways. SD3 (on an emulator) was a bit disappointing in comparison, not bad but it just didn't have the same charm as the other two.

I felt LoM was pretty good though. Doesn't surprise me for a moment that the SaGa people had something to do with it. Seriously, they make great games but I think their best work happens when they dial it back on the complicated mechanics and don't try to force the "open world" thing too much at the expense of story. I enjoyed Saga Frontier 2 a lot more than say, Unlimited Saga.

I'm jaded but I just don't have high hopes for SD5. If it's another SoM that would be fantastic but that doesn't seem realistic. I guess we'll see what happens with it.

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JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

U-DO Burger posted:

You're going to love Chrono Cross. Someone decided to write a sci-fi plot as complicated as Xenogears, only they forgot to have good characters, and they forgot to actually tell the story until the very end. Imagine Miang's disc 2 monologue about Deus, only every single goddamn character does this in the last 2 hours, telling you things that they probably shouldn't even know, and that there was absolutely no foreshadowing for.

Yeah Chrono Cross is pretty incomprehensible in parts and that's putting it lightly. That said, the game is worth it for the soundtrack alone.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

loquacius posted:

I am playing a little each of Rogue Galaxy, DQ7, BoF3, and Grandia, and am not sure which one I'm gonna play all the way through first

I like Dragon Quests most consistently but DQ7 has a very slow start. Grandia is charming but I spent a very long time getting up to childlike mischief and eating dinner with my mom etc and I kind of wanted some more action faster, although it wasn't as bad about this as DQ7. Rogue Galaxy seems cool (not sure whether it's more of a Star Wars or a Dune ripoff just yet) but real-time sci-fi combat wasn't what I had an itch for. So far leaning most toward BoF3.

BoF 3 is great, it's a lot of people's favorite in the series. That one and 4 are definitely worth the playthrough. The other games in your list are pretty fun, though DQ7 is just an absolutely massive game. It'll probably take you more time to beat that one than the other three games combined.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013
Saga Frontier 2 is a great game but yeah I think Minstrel Song, RS3 or Saga Frontier might be the picks if you want the most uh.. Saga.

Also something specifically about Saga Frontier 2 is it probably has the most punishing difficulty curve out of the saga games. In the sense that the structure of the game means you can easily get trapped in difficult situations with no means to find a safe place to grind to get stronger or find some item/shop/etc or whatever to help you get through it. So if you do play that one, make use of multiple save states. The final dungeon in particular has a few extremely nasty surprises that can effectively soft lock your save if your party isn't up to par.

If you find anti-petrification gear, you need to save it. Trust me on that one. At least a single piece.

JuniperCake fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jun 5, 2023

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

The Colonel posted:

oh is hotdogs what they localized the cafeteria food into. in jp everyone wants to eat their pan bread.

In the English version Zell specifically is always talking about hot dogs and how much he loves them.

Knowing square translations at the time I have no idea if this is an invention of that or just what bread was translated into. Does Zell seem obsessed with bread in the Japanese version?

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013
That makes sense! And yeah, it does seem like a reasonable localization choice.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013
Yeah third for bouncing off the magic system. Because it turns all your magic into stuff you never use because you might need them "later." Unless you just constantly grind with draw which gets tedious after a while. Of course junctions and limit breaks eventually completely break the game so most magic is not needed anyways except as fuel for junctions but eh.

I actually liked most of the game otherwise. There was some cool moments, the setting was neat and the music is some of Uematsu's best. (Among a very long list since he just doesn't miss but still)

Though I think a lot of people at that time had fond memories of FF6 or 7 (or Tactics). 8 was pretty different from all of those. So that probably plays a role in folks disliking it.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

TurnipFritter posted:

Maybe this time Star Ocean fans will see the light and realize Opera is way better than Ashton........


Opera is possibly the strongest character in the game yeah. Her homing shot is nuts. But Ashton and his dragon head friends are pretty endearing.

The game is cruel to make you choose between them.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

nemesis_hub posted:

Thanks for the Tactics Ogre opinions, guys. I snooped around the first few floors of the Palace of the Dead and yeah I can’t do this 100 times, possibly twice!? It’s a shame because I loved the main game so much (my first time playing it). Why is rpgs and srpgs having mind numbing post game grinds a thing?

Also if I loved TO what should I play next? What really drew me in was the story, setting, and how addictive the combat is.


Ogre battle 64 and Knights of Lodis were mentioned and are great choices. The latter is kinda a prequel to TO in ways that will be evident but you don't lose anything having played TO first. There's also Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen for SNES which is the first in the series. I'd say Ogre battle 64 is an improvement on the first though. But if you play both, might as well start with the SNES since it takes place before 64 and has some characters return. But it's not make or break to play these games in any particular order.

For non ogre stuff, you can play the first FFT of course if you haven't yet. The first of which is also a Matsuno game so the tone is far closer to ogre battle than final fantasy.

And for recent games you can try Triangle Strategy. The battle system is a little different and doesn't have nearly the same level of customization. But every recruitable character has a unique toolkit and there's some cool things that it does. The voice acting turns a lot of folks off so use the JP voices if that's an issue for you. But other than that it's the closest thing we've had to a new TO game in a long while.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013
Yeah I'd take FFIX's design over 12 and 13's personally. And frankly while 8 is underrated, it's also got a lot of questionable design choices.

Not that there's a FF game that doesn't have a few weird choices at least anyways but it seems a bit unfair to say FFIX is the worst.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

Endorph posted:

yuna tells him to laugh but i always took it as tidus doing a goofy laugh on purpose. the scene ends with them laughing genuinely

Yeah I always thought the laugh was like that because Tidus was trying to ham it up and not because that's his actual normal laugh. It was a cute scene.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

Annath posted:

FTFY

Also, I assume people were talking about Star Ocean 2 Remake when discussing missable content?

I'm definitely going to have to use a guide when playing that because I have A Thing™ about missable stuff in games.

At the very least the game is pretty replayable because there's enough restrictions in character recruitment that it takes 2 playthroughs to get to use every character. And at least 4 playthroughs if you want to get all the PAs, interactions/endings that are possible too. So you can play once blind then do newgame+ to get what you missed. With the skips /fast travel you can finish your new game+ run in a fraction of the time it took the first.

Though one benefit though with this version of the game is that it will tell you when there's a missable quest or PA in a town. So long as you frequently check the fast travel map. Basically you should do it every time you progress the story or arrive at a new location but it works.

Biggest missable thing to just keep in mind Make sure to do the PA in Kurik when you get there for the first time. Just do it immediately before doing anything else.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

Ofecks posted:

Didn't FF9 have something similar to Private Actions, or whatever it's called you're referring to here? I definitely recall the sfx jingle that played when there was one available. Was SO2 the first game to do that sort of thing?

Pretty sure the first star ocean on SNES had Private actions too? But it's been a while so I might just be thinking of the remakes. I have to imagine some other game has had them before though but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

Chaotic Flame posted:

Rena's theme is one of my favorite video game themes. A certain version of it from the second disc is the first time I went looking for a video game song.

Yes.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

ImpAtom posted:

Beastmaster I think is an example of why it is done well, to the point where I think the only real problem it has is that it SAYS Counter: (x) instead of just doing it like another RPG would.

Beastmaster has 2 counters: it will respond to Physical Attacks with a counter, which just means "use magic on it" (fairly standard RPG stuff) and when you kill all of its animal companions it goes into a rage mode where it starts getting more BP with every action. So the key is to kill it before you take out all of its companions or have the skills to deal with it flipping the gently caress out. This is a not-uncommon situation in RPGs when you have that kind of boss, it just doesn't specifically let you know that it was triggering it.

(Also the Gaia Shield basically nullifies her counter entirely but I think you only have one by that point.)

Yeah there was an early boss too which countered white magic with a high damage drain life attack. So it made me think really carefully about using healing on that fight and made it more interesting. So that stood out to me. Though after a while the counters seemed to all devolve to, "Do any action" -> "Boss gains 1 BP" which wasn't really engaging. Since the boss was gonna get massive BP regardless you'd just do whatever broken combo you were going to do and not think about it anymore. Like I get it, you're trying to give the boss a chance in terms of action economy but there's no more strategy to it and it doesn't even work with how powerful the late game party gets. They needed to rethink some things there.

The early game's use of the counter system was great though. And I suspect the late game issues is more because of stuff like covid and development getting rushed towards the end. Which is a shame cause I think BD2 would rate much higher in people's opinion if the rest of the game had the same quality that the first four chapters did.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013
I like Star Ocean 2 R's take on parties. You can only have 4 in your party formation like the original game. But your other 4 party members are on standby and can be called to run in and do one attack when their gauge has filled up. Depending on set up this can happen pretty frequently too. So it feels like your whole party is there.

Breath of Fire 4 also had a decent system. You had your 3 in the front fighting and 3 on reserve. You can swap people out of either group at any time, and characters in reserve regenerate health/ap every turn while in reserve. So it gives you some incentive to swap people mid battle and use all your party members.

So there's some clever ways to get around the limitation at least.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

GloomMouse posted:

Beyond the Beyond definitely sucks

Yes. I could get through 7th saga despite it's faults but not this game. It was absolutely terrible.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

Junpei posted:

I could have sworn the magic system had this neat-ish rune combo system and also no healing magic so all healing was potion-based?

And you could use anything equipped as an attack. Headbutt with a helmet, shield bash, attack with actual weapons, kick with boots/shoes, etc.

Yeah it was interesting. Healing was limited because you could only heal with the potions on your belt item that had a cap, and all your spells cost HP too.

Though my favorite thing about that game is they weren't normal about anything and were committed to making the world look very weird and alien. Like even down to the trees, houses, etc. Even some of the character portraits are just completely bizarre too like that one ghost swordsman guy's portrait. It's great.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013
Clearly, VNs are an evolution of puppet shows.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013
If games like Pyre count then I recommend Pyre.

Half VN, Half Wizard Basketball. The Wizard basketball part is not as fun as it should be but the VN parts are really endearing and make up for it imo.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

Endorph posted:

the quest 64 gamefaqs guide that is 90% a diatribe on how the name 'role playing game' makes no sense and how much quest 64 sucks

This is kinda understandable RPG definitions aside. Cause Nintendo went from having one of the absolute best platforms for the genre to a platform where the genre is almost entirely absent. In that context I could see how Quest 64 existing could feel like a slap in the face to some people in particular.

It's a cute game despite all it's problems and probably doesn't deserve the flak it gets. It's just not the one game that could make up for the otherwise complete lack of rpgs on the system. The game that did that came out a year later.

JuniperCake fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Apr 9, 2024

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

ImpAtom posted:

What about Ogre Battle 64?

Yeah you shouldn't forget this one. It was legitimately one of the best rpgs of the era and definitely one of the best N64 games of any genre.

It would be nice if we eventually see a remaster of it.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

credburn posted:

Has there been a single good Mana game outside Secret of Mana?

Trials was excellent. If you don't like the remake, play the original snes version of the game (SD3) with translation patch, it holds up extremely well.

I'm also fond of Legend but that one is understandably more polarizing than some of the others.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013
Yeah if you want to play a mana game on the SNES go for evermore.

It's the most unlike the others and there really is no other game like it. I won't call it a good game but it is absolutely a memorable one.

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JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013

Harrow posted:

I have very strong memories of Grandia 2 for a game I only played once, like two decades ago.

I never got around to Grandia Xtreme or 3, but 1 and 2 are good fun and I remember them being really charming. I really love the Grandia battle system--the pseudo-ATB where you can see enemy turns coming and delay or interrupt them is very cool. I'd love to see more games with that kind of combat.

I got mixed feelings on Xtreme. They revamped the systems just a little bit from 2 and it's one of the best versions of gameplay and combat the Grandia series has to offer. Everything else about it is terrible though. It's just a dungeon crawler that has you repeat the same boring dungeons over and over with just an absolute bare bones story. The characters aren't much better either.

But it's a lot of combat and that's what the game is actually good at.

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