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FYI, there is now a subforum for the 2012 Olympic games. Fencers, boxers, wrestlers, TKDers, Judoka, please feel free to discuss the appropriate events, and anyone in any discipline that feels like putting together an informative OP for the above, please feel free.
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Jul 12, 2012 04:10
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gimpsuitjones posted:My camp in Thailand didn't actually even mention money til I'd been there like a month Thai camps (with the exceptions of the ones that cater to farang like Tiger and Fairtex) make most of their money from fighter purses, so they lock up their fighters with restrictive contracts and aren't too concerned with collecting money from hobbyists. American fight schools make most of their money from hobbyists, so they get them into long term contracts while not being too concerned about collecting money from their fighters (assuming they have them)
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Mar 6, 2013 04:07
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Frazier would be the classic example.
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Mar 19, 2013 05:08
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Kekekela posted:Same in FL. Also standing 8 counts which are bizarre in the context of an MMA fight. Shooto used to have standing 8s, in fact. Traditional!
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Mar 25, 2013 05:14
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kimbo305 posted:This is a really quick, mildly thought-provoking demo: This is one of the reasons that parrying is generally better than blocking, and dodging generally better than parrying.
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Mar 25, 2013 05:29
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I've been training striking and grappling in various forms for ten years now. Pretty much all of my serious injuries occurred during grappling, the vast majority during takedowns.
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Mar 30, 2013 02:34
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I can't stand any fight scene that shoots for realism and fails, which is most. I watched Grosse Point Blank the other day and there was this little fight scene towards the end which was surprisingly good. The strangest places. 90s John Cusack comedy contains a more believable fight scene than 90% of the action movies I see. If it's the one in the high school hallway, that's partially because the other guy is Benny Urquidez.
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Apr 1, 2013 01:33
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1st AD posted:Yeah, I think a lot of modern fight choreography has gotten quite good compared to what fight scenes looked like even a decade ago, but I hate it when they have a really small woman kickboxing the poo poo out of dudes twice her size. I assume you also hate it when Tony Jaa kickboxes the poo poo out of Nathan Jones.
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Apr 1, 2013 20:29
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eine dose socken posted:I've honestly never seen a street fight go to the ground You haven't seen many street fights, then. quote:the risk of getting soccer kicked by someones buddy while you grapple with them seems pretty high? Most streetfights I've seen involve somebody tackling somebody. If you've taken bjj, or another viable groundfighting art, you'll be working to either sweep the guy on top of you, or get out from under him, while his buddy attempts to soccer kick you. If you haven't taken bjj or another viable groundfighting art, you'll be lying there swallowing your teeth while his buddy soccer kicks you.
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Apr 10, 2013 05:43
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Judo is older than Aikido, Boxing is older than any form of karate, wrestling is older than any form of kung fu. "Traditional Martial Arts" is not a useful formulation. If you're going to divide things up into categories, "Martial Arts that involve live sparring" and "Martial arts that suck" are probably the two most useful.
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Apr 14, 2013 06:34
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Guilty posted:Edit - this is also a pretty lovely attitude to have if you're not just joking around. TMAs done well are loving awesome to watch. More than anything they bring the art aspect. Yeah that's cool and all but arts that purport to be teaching you how to fight without doing live sparring are going to get students hurt when they take that seriously. Like I would have no problem with a traditional martial art that basically says "We're basically performance gymnastics with kicks, we'll get you into great shape but if you ever get into a fight forget all of this stuff and run like gently caress" but I rather doubt that's how most of them present themselves. Certainly none that I've ever visited. Every judo, boxing, muay thai, and bjj gym I've been in has been very clear about what aspects of their arts are actually useful in a street confrontation. That's pretty important. A student of the judo club I used to train at isn't likely to attempt an ippon seio nage on a guy brandishing a knife at him because he's been made aware that this is a stupid idea. A guy whose kempo club has him repeatedly drilling anti-knife wristlocks, on the other hand, is pretty likely to wind up getting himself stabbed. And arguing that that doesn't suck because it's forms are "loving awesome to watch" is in fact what I consider a pretty lovely attitude.
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Apr 14, 2013 21:05
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Guilty posted:I've never been to a good decent gym that purports to train anything than what it trains well, and aggressively prove this in as many competitions as it can. Whether it's fighting in a ring or cage, or perfect wushu demos on a spring floor, or just being a monster in the roda, live competition of all kinds are what drives people to be better martial artists. Your segregation of martial arts between live sparring and 'those that suck' is completely the wrong attitude to have. People have different pursuits in life, and one is not better than the other. Congratulations on writing five paragraphs without addressing a single one of my points, I guess.
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Apr 14, 2013 22:50
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Guilty posted:Your point is that it's the martial art that teaches people to be weeabos, and my point is that it's the personal gym itself and has nothing to do with the martial art. Your point is that if the martial art doesn't involve live sparring, 'it sucks'. My point is that live sparring isn't the goal of all martial arts. It's all stuff that should be spelled out anyways, considering how much this thread pisses all over TMAs. It is possible to enjoy both aspects of martial arts If a fluid comes in cans, is sold in grocery stores, and called a "soft drink", and when you drink it it tastes terrible and makes you ill, it sucks as a soft drink. If said fluid happens to be very effective as a floor polisher, extremely useful for removing stains from your carpet, and an excellent industrial lubricant, it does not therefore follow that it doesn't suck as a soft drink because people have different goals in life.
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Apr 14, 2013 23:05
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Guilty posted:I think it's because I can spot a strip mall poo poo hole from a mile away and stay away from those places. I usually check fighters or performers to see what gyms they're representing and check out those gyms, if I see a gym without a decent competitor, I don't bother. I will certainly allow that gyms without live sparring can certainly function as excellent exercise programs and performance arts, and if they market themselves as exercise programs and performance arts rather than martial arts I don't have any particular problem with them. As martial arts, however, they suck, much as our hypothetical fluid sucks as a soft drink.
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Apr 14, 2013 23:19
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Guilty posted:vvvv: whatever, we're once again at the super pedantic point of this thread, where if things aren't worded exactly the way we like them to be, then everyone else is wrong Taking the novel position that a martial art that doesn't actually teach you how to defend yourself sucks is not being pedantic. Words mean things.
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Apr 15, 2013 00:04
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Guilty posted:edit: nm this contributes nothing That is not even close to the very definition of pedantic. "Pedantic" means getting overly concerned with details and formal rules, specifically when the details and formal rules are meaningless to the actual discussion. The commonly accepted definition of "martial arts" among english-speaking people is "Something you train to become better at fighting/defending yourself." This isn't the PRIMARY GOAL of everyone who starts training martial arts, but it is nigh-universally an EXPECTATION of people who start training martial arts. If something which is referred to as a martial art does not fulfill this condition, then yes, it sucks. Your entire argument that these arts do not suck is based on the fact that they can be "awesome to watch" or "get you in good shape" or one of any other million things that martial arts can potentially do. But if you ask ten people in the street what a "martial art" is, you're not going to get ten people telling you that a martial art is "something that's awesome to watch" or "something that gets you in great shape". You're going to get ten variations of "a martial art is something that teaches you to fight/defend yourself." Gymnastics is awesome to watch and gets you in great shape. But if someone opened up a gymnastics school, put posters of Gymkata on the walls and called it a martial arts dojo - it would suck.
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Apr 15, 2013 01:43
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:It's so weird that wrestling, boxing and MMA were all fleshed-out martial arts (and official olympic sports) before the old testament was written, but Aikido dudes act like they are part of some kind of noble and ancient tradition. There needs to be a different term for TMAs. The problem is, you need to come up with a term that describes the difference but isn't obviously offensive to the TMA crowd, or it won't catch on. Pro-tip - most of our body of literature involving Greek myth comes from Athens and Athenians. Mysteriously, Athena tends to come across really well and Ares really poorly. 
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Apr 15, 2013 15:27
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Thoguh posted:That's really lovely on the part of the ref, since the rule obviously is meant to refer to joint locks where a guy won't tap. On the one hand, yeah Bohemian Nights posted:It makes sense, but the execution can be iffy. At the NYC open, a training partner with a TJJ background was "submitted" when he did his kiai before breakfalling after getting thrown, since the ref understood it as "screaming in pain." on the other hand, 
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Apr 18, 2013 22:25
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If you want to get better at Judo, spend as much time as possible training Judo, which will result in better Judo. Realistically, you are going to have some free time where you can't train Judo for logistical reasons. Spend most of it training cardio, because the better your cardio is, the more quality reps you will be able to perform during drilling and the sharper your technique will be during randori, which will result in better judo. Probably you will have some other extra time in addition to that. Spend it on strength and flexibility training, because both of those help prevent injuries, and the more time you spend uninjured the more time you'll be able to spend training Judo, which will result in better Judo.
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Apr 24, 2013 00:31
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Hmmm, so no kyudo, kenjutsu, etc?. It's all just fluff?. I've had exactly one physical confrontation since I started training martial arts. Dude swung a punch at me; I shoulder-rolled it the way I'd trained in boxing, then stepped in and whizzzer-threw him the way I'd trained in wrestling.
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Apr 30, 2013 03:44
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Ugrok posted:So why criticize martial arts that have only a limited or non existent "real-world application" ? Because regardless of whether or not self-defense is the primary REASON someone takes a martial art, it is nonetheless an EXPECTATION of most people. When someone practices a martial art they generally expect that, if necessary, they will be able to use that to defend themselves if necessary. Arts that include live sparring generally encourage a realistic view of how and when they will be able to use that. Arts that do not generally encourage an unrealistic view of how and when they will be able to use that, and having an unrealistic view of your own capacity re: self defense gets people hurt, and worse.
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May 2, 2013 22:29
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Guilty posted:Once again, that's a generalization based entirely on your own personal experiences and in no way reflects the entirety of those martial arts. I know many, many, many, many, martial artists from all walks of life who have realistic expectations of their self-defense prospects. I also know many martial artists from all martial arts who are complete assholes. No, "Martial artists from X art generally have an unrealistic view of their capabilities" would be a generalization based on my personal experience. "Arts that do not generally encourage an unrealistic view of how and when they will be able to use that" is a factual statement because being taught techniques that you never attempt to apply to a resisting opponent gives you no realistic idea of how easy or difficult it will be to apply those techniques, which leads to unrealistic expectations regarding when and if you will be able to apply them. The fact that you know specific people from those arts who have (what you judge to be) realistic expectations of their self-defense prospects does not make this untrue.
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May 3, 2013 01:32
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McNerd posted:I always hear this; what is it about training wrestling that (allegedly) reinforces the idea of full-speed muscling through everything, at least by comparison with BJJ? Is it just a different culture? Safer to train full-speed without joint locks? Something else? It is cultural, as people have noted above, but also it has to do with competition rules. Wrestling has 2 minute periods. Pretty much the shortest period in BJJ competition is 5 minutes, and for higher belt/level competition it can be as long as 10 or 20. If BJJ only competed in 2 minute rounds there'd be a lot more emphasis on high speed powering into finishes, and if wrestling regularly had ten minute periods there'd be a lot more emphasis on relaxing and flowing into takedown/pinning opportunities.
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May 9, 2013 18:34
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It's also commonly referred to as a "peekout"
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May 17, 2013 22:33
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KidDynamite posted:Right hook is a dumb, ugly punch and you're better off throwing an overhand right, or a right uppercut. hth. 
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May 19, 2013 18:33
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Guilty posted:There's a lot to be learned from watching professionals fight, but you need to keep in mind that many things they do are just simply on another level. Those are not basics, and that's not necessarily what you need to be learning/practicing. I mean, if you honestly think you can fight just like Mayweather, then by all means, train like Mayweather. There's a difference between "bad habits professionals get away with because they're very, very good" and "things that may not be basics, but are an appropriate tool for very specific jobs" and the right hook is the latter. But mostly I'm just having fun at Kid Dynamite's expense because I find it amusing to set his poor opinion of the right hook and his Floyd fanboyism at odds with each other.
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May 19, 2013 19:06
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Lt. Shiny-sides posted:I've drained guy's ears and had them return to 100% normal and I've drained guy's ears repeatedly who wear headgear and seen them still get nasty. It all depends on the person. I have only met a few who really wanted their ears to get bad. Yeah, I drained my ears every time they swelled and they still look like they've been chewed on. Some people are just more susceptible.
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Jun 4, 2013 02:39
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Xguard86 posted:Especially everyone's favorite Lee vs Tyson or Lee vs Ali because both those dudes are 50 pounds heavier and actual high level fighters. 
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Jun 11, 2013 18:49
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KidDynamite posted:No way you can't follow it up with a glorious hook. What are you talking about, you can easily do lead-uppercut to lead-hook. Tyson did it all the time.
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Jun 19, 2013 18:53
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Yeah, just do that thing Mike Tyson did, jeez Lots of people in boxing use the lead-uppercut/hook combo, I just like tying my boxing references to Tyson or Floyd because it makes it harder for KidDynamite to disagree with me.
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Jun 19, 2013 20:57
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KidDynamite posted:Left upper->Left hook is just something that makes my rotator cuff cry. I'm also having trouble seeing an application for the combo over left upper->straight. The hook off the left upper will also be less powerful than a hook thrown after a right upper thus making it less glorious, unless it's left upper->feint->left hook but to me that's an entirely different combination. You can get a full power hook off the left upper if you don't fully shift your weight on the upper, which means the upper won't be as powerful, but it doesn't need to be because the purpose of it isn't to be a full power shot in and of itself but to raise your opponent's head to set them up for the subsequent hook.
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Jun 19, 2013 22:19
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Ashenai posted:I really hate poo poo like this. It's good to respect old masters for their experience, and what they'd achieved, but I don't think it's necessary to LARP with them while pretending it's actual sparring. Ultimately, this feels disrespectful to Judo itself. I wouldn't be surprised if the intimidation factor of facing such a respected practitioner played a role, but if you think that isn't "actual sparring" you should watch the Kata Gurumas again.
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Jun 26, 2013 17:25
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Ashenai posted:There's this fantasy that physical conditioning isn't a vitally important part of any full-contact martial art (there's a bit in every martial arts urban legend where the tiny Aikidoka beats the crap out of the big dumb muscular dude,) and it pisses me right off. I really respect skill and experience, but I also really respect people who have conditioned and done cardio and buffed up for martial arts. It takes a shitton of effort and discipline, just like developing skills does, and it gets no respect. I say again, if you think Mifune is lacking in power there, rewatch the Kata Gurumas. No matter how good your kuzushi is, you don't lift guys like that without strength.
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Jun 27, 2013 04:09
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Thirty bucks is a good deal for any seminar that you get something out of.
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Jun 29, 2013 12:50
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Mechafunkzilla posted:The greatest thing about it is that the "well it would work against an untrained attacker" explanation doesn't even apply, since anyone who doesn't wrestle isn't going to be shooting doubles and singles on you in a fight. Actually "lovely tackles" are the untrained technique of choice in beer-fueled barfights in this and many other areas. Julio Cesar Fatass posted:I forget who in PSP said it, but any wrestling practice where you don't feel like you're about to die is a bad practice. Thoguh.
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Jul 11, 2013 18:33
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One of the early Grappler's Quests had a Dog Brothers exhibition match. It was hilarious because it took place right after some of the kids divisions so all the parents got to see two dudes beating the poo poo out of each other with rattan sticks.
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Jul 28, 2013 05:15
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Guilty posted:I suppose if you're the type who confuses a ring/cage with a film set, you would be offended... But most of the fighters in this thread don't have too much of a problem Says the guy who bitches for five paragraphs if someone dares to suggest a martial art that doesn't spar might not be very good.
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Aug 1, 2013 00:40
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Guilty posted:I think you've got me confused Nah.
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Aug 1, 2013 02:47
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Guilty posted:Link please. Keeping in mind how many high profile fights there are per year world wide and how many people are trying to use tkd or whatever to prove it's 'legit'. lol, trying to say stuff like this to save face doesn't work when people can just go back and read what you wrote. I just find it amusing that me saying that martial arts that don't spar suck got you into a tizzy, and then you come right back and act contemptuous of people that throw spinning techniques.
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Aug 1, 2013 15:43
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 03:54 |
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ManOfTheYear posted:Sumo doesn't have that: you lose by having any other part than the bottoms of your feet touch the ground or by getting pushed out of the ring. The logic with you losing because you are either kneeling, on your fours or on the ground basically is that you are gonna get kicked and stomped on if you end up there. Except that we have hours upon hours of matches from early UFC and PRIDE and IVC where kicks and stomps to a kneeling or on-all-fours opponent were perfectly legal and Surprise! Often they don't actually end the match at all! quote:To me, sumo is much more of an "real" fight than any of the UFCs out there, no matter what the marketing says: give me a thong and a hundred pounds of goonfat over a rash guard any day 
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Aug 1, 2013 21:06
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