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Ola posted:Because it doesn't have a gearbox. It beats most supercars up to 100 mph in one gear. If they added a gearbox to it, different story. Gearbox wouldn't help that much. A P85 has about 175 Nm @ 100 mph and 430 Nm @ 50 mph. If you would add a second gear that would double the overall gear ratio you would get 215 Nm @ 100 mph with some additional transmission loss and weight. An improvement, but nothing that would change the overall conclusion.
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Aug 6, 2015 11:11
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Ola posted:It will help any car, ICEs or electrics, the math is the same. The torque dips when it starts running out of revs so you change the drive ratio, lose torque but gain wheel speed. It will lose the top speed race to a car with higher hp/drag because physics. But because of the particular shape of the Tesla torque curve the benefit is gears small compared to the benefit gears provide in typical ICE cars. The phenomenal low speed performance advantage Tesla enjoys will not be there at higher speeds - gears or no gears - because ICE cars are also able to utilize their optimal rev range. It becomes just a question of power-to-weight. Granted, something like Charger Hellcat is needed to match the power-to-weight ratio of a P90D, but you can buy two of the Hellcats for the price of a P90D.
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Aug 6, 2015 19:55
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silence_kit posted:Oh, I had no idea that that existed. Do you know a lot about this? How much of modern car assembly is outsourced? I don't know much about this subject, but I'd be shocked if Honda/Toyota/other reliable car brands heavily rely on outsourcing assembly. Valmet used to build Porsche Boxters and Caymans. Before that it was at least Saabs and Opel Calibras. At the moment they build the Mercedes-Benz A-class. They also did the short production run of Fisker. Edit: Cars produced at Valmet Automotive: code:DoLittle fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Sep 26, 2015 |
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Sep 26, 2015 07:52
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Anecdote: Local Tesla owner's club had an article of a taxi driver who has put 260 000 km (162 000 miles) on his 2014 P85 Model S. Non-warranty maintenance bills ~15 k€ (Charger, power steering, rear subframe, three door handles). One drive-unit replacement which was covered by warranty. The Tesla would need to run flawlessly for next 3 years for the fuel savings to offset the repair bills compared to his previous Volvo. In practice the cars are replaced every three years at ~350 000 km. Edit: Fuel is $6/gallon and electricity 10 c/kWh around here. DoLittle fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Nov 29, 2016 |
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Nov 29, 2016 21:41
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Sagebrush posted:Yeah but there's nothing to break in an electric car anyway right? Do it According to local taxi owner who runs Tesla S it has been more expensive to maintain than internal combustion cars. 17 k€ in non warranty repairs (power steering, rear subframe, doorhandles etc.) on top of warranty repairs (drive unit replacement etc.).
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Jan 28, 2017 07:36
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Model S is bland but well proportioned and handsome. With the Model 3 they are replicating the same design language but throwing away the well proportioned bit and the language itself is a bit more dated by now.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:06
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Powershift posted:http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/chevrolet/chevrolet-bolt-ev/chevrolet-bolt-ev-sales-numbers/ Is that bad for EV sold in five states? What where the sales targets?
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Jul 19, 2017 05:36
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The sole reason why Tesla greenfielded the Gigafactory alongside Panasonic is that no one could get close to supply for what they wanted - to get a handle on the scale here, Tesla's demands for batteries will equal the entire world 2013 supply. China might be ramping up itself but you are still talking about 5 years in the future before anyone has the capcity to volume supply for cars like Tesla is ramping up to - The Koreans and Japanese other than Panasonic due to the partnership with Tesla are in no position to get anywhere close. How is any other car maker going to get supply when Tesla and the Chinese are going to corner the market for themselves - and not just the batteries themselves, but the input resources. The 35 GWh gigafactory is big, but it is by no means dominant player in the lithium-ion battery production market.  
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Jul 26, 2017 12:25
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CannonFodder posted:Are you looking for MY2013 cars? Because in NC 2013 Volts go for around $12k to $16k. Must be a Euro thing where electrics and hybrids are in greater demand. Taxes. They seem to be 15-20 k€ around here with 50-100k miles.
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Sep 19, 2017 05:52
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I think that Volt electric range can cover the commute of vast majority of peope and they can use all of it without any anxiety. It is not more expensive than full electric (more expensive the ICE though) and it hardly matters in the grand scheme of things if 10% of driving is with ICE. It would be ideal car for someone in my position living in a house in suburd 25 km from city center and 25 km from work. I don’t even think that that is a small subset of car buyers. I’d say quite the opposite. Unfortunately GM doesn’t sell 2gen Volt here. None of the other PHEVs have the range to properly cover the commute. Hyundai ioniq provides an intresting cost comparison as it comes with different drivetrains (tax free): Hybrid: 18 k€ PHEV: 25 k€ (EV range 20 miles) EV: 27 k€ (EV range 124 miles) DoLittle fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 08:42
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On the other hand, all non-engine components still require the same amount of maintenance. Anecdotal, but according to local taxi company Tesla S has required more maintenace and repair work than their ICE cars. Warranty (motor unit replacement) and non-warranty (rear subframe, power steering etc.).
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Jan 20, 2018 09:30
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I don’t think any EV (or PHEV) makes economic sense unless there are tax incentives to ensure it. It is hardly a reason to object PHEVs over EVs.
DoLittle fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 19:25
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ClassH posted:Over what time frame? I mean up front cost yea but total cost of ownership very well could be. Also new vs used would make quite a difference. Any time frame I would assume. Might work with a very cheap used EV (Leaf with bad battery) on a short commute. Or something like Tesla X versus the high performance Bentley SUV or optioned G-wagen. Neither of which make any economic sense either. Ioniq pricing I posted on previous page illustrates the cost of EV gear quite well: Hybrid: 18 k€ PHEV: 25 k€ (EV range 20 miles) EV: 27 k€ (EV range 124 miles) DoLittle fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 20:12
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Cd on its own is not quite fair when used to compare cars from different size groups and layouts, because there are constraints like the size and shape of a human. Generally it is easier to reach a lower Cd with a larger car as there is more to play with in relation to the constraints. On the other hand, that room to play easily may result in larger area. So CdA may be more fair between different vehicle types, but both have uses. Also, the tip of the nose is not that important for Cd.
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Jan 28, 2018 13:41
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Jesus Christ what an argument. The shape of the nose doesn't determine if i3 or Leaf is more aerodynamic. There are no conclusions that can be drawn from the reported Cd to the influence the shape of the nose of each of the cars may or may not have on the overall drag. The Cd is much more sensitive to design of many other bits.
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Jan 29, 2018 21:31
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I think ~63% efficiency is the record for a combustion power plant (combined cycle gas turbine) in electricity generation. A large diesel generators get up to 51%. F1 engines can also hit this in optimal conditions. Good modern, boiler - steam turbine power plants tend to peak around 48%. Of course if the waste heat can be used for example district heating the overall efficiency can be very high. I think passenger car diesels can reach up to 40% and gas engines 30-35%.
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Jun 8, 2018 20:14
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Saukkis posted:When you are comparing engine efficience you must forget about the 30% value, because ICE motors achieve that around 1/3rd of max RPM and 2/3rd of full throttle. You can't use a normal car like that. If you want to run your car at peak efficiency your would have to start around 1500 RPM, do a powerful acceleration until you reach 2500 RPM, turn off your engine and coast until you reach the speed corresponding to 1500RPM. And then repeat until you reach your destination. Or maybe you could get close to the peak efficiency if you drive a Bugatti Veyron at 200 km/h. To drive at 100 km/h with peak efficiency would require a car equipped with a 500 cc bike engine, and not a powerful one. This is true and also the motivation for the 9 speed transmissions and cylinder deactivation seen in modern cars. So the overall efficiency has improved quite a bit and is closer to the peak values. I don't have numbers though and it probably is quite sensitive to driving style. At the other end in power plant scale the peak electricity generation efficiency is not really the whole story either. A modern fluidized bed boiler CHP (combined heat and power) plant is not very picky about the quality of fuel and can run on different types of waste streams. The heat can be used for district heating or on process industry. The overall efficiency is very high (>90%) and fuel can be something would need processing anyway or would decompose to CO2 regardless if it is used to generate power or not.
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Jun 9, 2018 09:00
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I think that they said that currently Tesla is at $140/kWh and they hope to reach the $100/kWh mark. The $140 is quite well in line with the GM price of buying them from LG. Nissan gave up on in-house battery production because they couldn't compete with third party manufacturers. I think they also buy then from LG nowadays.
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Jul 2, 2018 20:13
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I forgot about the Kona and Niro. where i will go to the mat for Tesla is that they have by far the best sales model in the industry. when john q public walks in to a Hyundai or Kia dealership (which are loving dire places that have only just maybe started to climb out of the 10-year unlimited warranty cheap credit buy-here-pay-here buyer) that mother fucker is going to tell him to buy a Sportage or a Tucson or whatever. tesla has a huge advantage because they don't have a dedicated nationwide sales force of retards actively trying to convince customers not to buy electric cars. this is a big problem with the Bolt, too! At least in non-US markets Hyundai Ioniq EV and Renault Zoe. Edit: gently caress, another page with much more complete lists.. Qwijib0 posted:Looks like the norwegian price is ~36K USD for the base model, ~39K for the all-features model. It's listed with a 64kwh battery, but the US version is rated for "250 miles" at 117MPGe, which would require a 72kwh battery so I'm not sure those prices will directly translate. If they do, then it looks good. Do these prices include VAT or other taxes? El Grillo posted:How many genuine competitor vehicles to Tesla's are either out or going into production any time soon? i.e. long range consumer BEVs. The only one I can think of is the I Pace. Apparently you can order one of those now, I don't know if they are shipping them yet though? Not really genuine competitors as they are all cheaper than Teslas, but at least Bolt, Zoe, Kona, Niro, 2019 Leaf. I think all of these do at least 200 miles on a charge. DoLittle fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 09:10
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Subjunctive posted:They refer (in the Master’s thesis you link) to a “Nordic electricity mix”, but don’t define it. Swedish electricity production is 1. Hydro (~45%), 2. Nuclear (~30), 3. Wind (~10), 4. CHP (~rest) Very, very low carbon emissions altogether. It doesn't get much better than that.
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Jul 18, 2018 20:49
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:this is talking about sulfur and particulates rather than CO2 If the goal was to reduce CO2 emissions, there would be many more efficient uses for the money spent to buy something like a Model S. Tax incentives could also be used to promote electrification of things like city busses rather than luxury passenger cars. That would be much more efficient in terms of CO2 emission reduction.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:42
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Busses are used by a lot of people in many parts of the world and electric busses already in production and use have far greater impact than all the EV passenger car production combined. More than 100000 BEV busses are produced every year and each has much, much larger impact on CO2 emission than a passenger car. Busses are large vehicles that run 12-16 hours a day. Compare that to typical BEV passenger car usage. They also run in densely populated areas, which makes the reduction of particulate and NOx emissions particularly useful. Of course there would also be many other more efficient uses regarding CO2 emissions for the money spent of luxury EVs, particularly in developing world. So it is a bit strange approach, if the goal is to save the world instead of producing admittedly cool cars. And the latter is a fine motivation for in it self.
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Jul 23, 2018 21:26
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:get your learn on, friend: https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/docs/PublicTransportationsRoleInRespondingToClimateChange2010.pdf A few things: 1. US is uniquely passenger car oriented compared to rest of the world 2. The price of batteries is so high at the moment that is only viable for expensive cars. Not enough cars are sold to have a large impact on CO2 emissions of all the passenger cars described by the emissions in the document you linked. When the price of batteries drops down low enough for wide spread adoption, it is easy to make electrified passenger cars as well. Just see Hyundai Ionig and Kona for direct comparison of the different drivetrains (Gas, Hybrid, PHEV, EV) and their cost. The EV versions are very expensive compared to gas/hybrid models. Typically EV's are also bought by people who do not drive that much, which further decreases the impact on CO2 emissions. 3. In busses, garbage trucks etc. EV is already cost competitive because of larger unit size and higher utilization, although the batteries are still the most expensive component. It would be better use of the expensive and limited production batteries in a bus or garbage truck. Putting the Model S batteries in a bus or garbage truck or mail truck has much larger impact in terms of CO2 emissions. Up here in north where we use gravel of roads during winter and studded tires most the particulate emissions from road transportation are actually often road dust rather and engine produced. Going EV will not reduce these emissions. It may even make it slightly worse if the cars get heavier. Same goes for the noise. At speed there is little difference in noise generated by an EV and modern ICE passenger car. Most of the noise is aerodynamic and tyre noise. That said, I do not object to production of passenger car EVs and I would like to have one, but at the moment I think it is more of a personal preference or luxury purchase.
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Jul 24, 2018 07:17
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:you are wrong on utilization. big heavy vehicles require a lot of energy to move around, and therefore a lot of batteries, and therefore quite a bit of time to recharge batteries when they are drained. if i am running a bus 14 hours a day, i don't have an opportunity to charge the bus since to build it to run 14 hours would require an outrageous amount of batteries. this is in large part why mild hybrid has been successful for busses. EV is not cost competitive on bus or garbage truck yet. if it were, people would buy them because fundamentally these are businesses with working assets where they need to make money. there's no vanity in garbage truck powertrains, and very little in busses. More than 100000 BEV city busses are built every year and have been since 2016. City busses and garbage trucks travel at slow speed and in continuous stop-and-go travel which makes them ideal for electrification. A bus can quick charge at the end of the line stop in 5 minutes enough to run an 80 km route continuously in normal schedule. Same approach can be applied to garbage trucks. Thus, long term commitment to the investment (city level) is important for the economic viability. IIRC a BEV bus investment cost currently is approx. twice the cost of an ICE bus, but it should earn it back and more within the use period and the quick charge stations can support multiple busses as well as their replacements. This of course depends on local electricity and fuel markets, but there should be a clear case for the approach at least in Northern European market.
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Jul 24, 2018 14:13
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CommieGIR posted:.....5 minutes to recharge? No. 1-2 hours? Sure. 3 - 6 minutes for the Linkker buses mentioned byt KozmoNaut.
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Jul 24, 2018 15:40
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CommieGIR posted:Most of that smog is from gasoline passenger vehicles and industrial/coal. Its part of why China is pushing hard for Nuclear, Solar, Wind, and Hydro as part of their 5 year plan. To add, the coal is not just in powerplant scale, but also coal boilers in apartment buildings. These are very rudimentary and produce a lot of emissions are slow to change because of the large number of units.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:31
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Cockmaster posted:The most range I've ever seen out of an electric vairant of an ICE car has been 125 miles (e-Golf). Kona has 300 mile range and looks identical to the ICE version. Most Konas are normal ICEs, but I would guess that electrification is accounted for in the design of the platform.
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Jul 29, 2018 04:13
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Cockmaster posted:If it was released simultaneously in gas and electric, then it most likely would have been designed to hold the big battery pack from the beginning. I was previously referring to taking an established car design, swapping out the engine for an electric motor, and cramming in the batteries wherever they'll fit. Well the ICE Kona has been out since 2017 and the electric is just become available, but they’ve cartainly been designed simultaneously.
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Jul 29, 2018 15:35
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RZA Encryption posted:There is def a market for a 200mi range EV that has absolutely nothing special in it. As long as it's reliable, blows cold air, and is marketed to where people will know it exists. I think this is Hyundai Kona, except for marketing. I guess they don’t need to market it more to sell the cars they make.
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Aug 8, 2018 09:21
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