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As that story in particular starts to gain traction, I'd be just a little bit surprised that the cause is not related fundamentally to something the U.S. was doing that had unintentional ramifications, but that no matter what it'll be amazing to find out what the hell it actually is. In the case of Cuba, the reaction of the government there was pretty telling. IIRC, they immediately treated it with a diplomatic panic, like something they sincerely wanted to deny participation in out of outright concern that it would harm relations in ways they 100% would not have risked in the first place ever. Like "oh god, it's not us, poo poo, we swear. it's NOT US"
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Jun 7, 2018 20:07
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I mean, it's not impossible, but I imagine none of the doctors remotely qualified to make that diagnosis, who have been involved in observing or diagnosing what had happened to these people, will have said anything to the public. I don't consider it the most likely explanation. Just ... possible.
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Jun 7, 2018 22:26
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It's going to be interesting looking back on previous discussions on the subject of the social credit system after we reach a suitable standard of obviousness about the breadth and ramifications of it.
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May 2, 2019 09:23
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This is like some sort of extremely weird performance art and I think it's actually kind of distressing how amorphous his views are when contortion is required in any way to villainize any opposition to China, no matter what the opposition originated from.
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Jun 15, 2019 16:09
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Raenir Salazar posted:On one hand, liberal democracy seems to be completely failing in every respect, in every developed country, so it's hard to blame China for largely thinking, "Nope". I mean, this has almost nothing to do with why China rejects liberal democracy. But if it were, it would be very easy to say "yuck, dude, it is in fact very easy to blame a bunch of large scale human rights abuses committing authoritarians for retrofitting that excuse as to why they're increasingly dictatorship-ey"
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Aug 20, 2019 14:26
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I am absolutely baffled at when we got to an attempt to delineate Imperialism versus lowercase-i imperialism. But I'm less baffled at what predictable group is managing to take the side of both capitalist billionaires AND imperialist police states at the same time.
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Aug 30, 2019 00:14
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Raenir Salazar posted:"Destroy their way of life" seems a little overblown though I must say. Most of urban China from an outside perspective seems not much different from HK. I'm glad you offered the caveat "an outside perspective." The effective rights and freedoms of a person in urban China are extremely different, so you are speaking of wildly different circumstances relating to equity and protection of rights – situations immediately relevant once you are charged with committing a crime, so relevant at all times. quote:I merely remarked about how two countries sucked equally Then don't. False equivalency arguments are bad enough when it's about the two american political parties. Nothing's ever equivalent and the idea of equivalency is used primarily as a cover for the behavior of the worse party.
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Sep 10, 2019 15:04
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A statement "there's no real safety net" is as fair a statement as you could make, so it's weird to see it being pedantically challenged in various focus. They have a social welfare system that makes the united states' safety net seem comparatively burgeoning and benevolent, which is bad, because most parts of the US likewise have nothing I would call a real safety net either. If it seemed to you like they had a better or more comprehensive social welfare system, you don't know much about the real situation in that country and should probably learn more.
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Sep 20, 2019 00:03
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the strangest ultimate tenor of a compounding autocracy: the state and the leaders are giant oversensitive babies about dissent and criticism, and apparently have to become even more of a giant wet baby about stuff with each passing year the strangest ultimate tenor of compounding world neoliberalism: even in a democratic republic your free speech may just become effectively regulated by the biggest wettest baby that your employer cannot afford to be cut out of the market from
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Oct 8, 2019 22:16
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Cicero posted:Holy poo poo lmao After a few experiences discussing my korean family history through the war and beyond, he was super gross to me and it made me pretty uncomfortable since he was an admin at that point. I would just cease participating! I am really glad he's gone. I'm glad I had the opportunity to be around to participate in his anti-imperialism thread and do some questioning of his most ridiculously inhumane, myopic beliefs.
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Oct 11, 2019 00:05
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a chinese state approved ideological/condition assessment of the United States, drawing upon firsthand travels during the Bush/Dukakis election (and all of the other nuttiness of America in the late 80's anyway) by a principally important member and strategist of Xi's Politburo Standing Committee is gonna be some fascinating stuff
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Nov 14, 2019 00:41
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Baronjutter posted:How did enough people not have fishmech on ignore to even report them? A fishmech perma was one of three conditions for one of my partners to permit themselves to re-reg so I saw all in order to report.
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Nov 15, 2019 20:26
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Harik posted:out of morbid curiosity, what are the final two signs of the apocalypse? R. Guyovich demodded and banned (technically written out as 'no dumbshit tankie admins') The other one is not yet fulfilled and can't be disclosed but it's honestly well on its way.
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Nov 16, 2019 18:26
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"An enemy of the state" -- account of torture. https://m.facebook.com/notes/cheng-man-kit/for-the-record-an-enemy-of-the-state/2490959950941845/
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Nov 20, 2019 17:20
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Kill All Cops posted:Like her tits, Naomi Wu tends to blow things up out of proportion, I wanted to object to this, but then I remembered that the "heartbreaker" video was not actually a bad dream I had.
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Dec 25, 2019 15:44
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I was all set to dismiss the wuhan coronavirus thing as just another example of sinophobic weirdness over tepid poo poo, then I see pictures of the literal entire city of wuhan under lockdown and 11 others under quarantine affecting at minimum 33 million people, travel restrictions are put in place, international travel restrictions and cancellation of tours, and Xi is calling it a 'grave threat,' setting the foundation for criticism of hubei province leaders for insufficient action leading to wherever this is going, etc. So, hey! I guess this is a thing.
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Jan 25, 2020 17:29
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There's not a whole ton of verified reporting on it but the tone of it indicates that Xi is responding to it with optics about why this danger is one of many dangers that highlights the importance of that there's a few dudes in charge of everything, and that it highlights the need for harmony in governance, so definitely don't question the few dudes in question, etc. Trump has also assured everything's totally under control, which is ironically the first thing that got me wondering if this was actually going to go huge after all
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Jan 25, 2020 20:53
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Not gonna jump on board the several advance lines of Conspiracy Train (choo choo) but honestly I am forced to admit that China's governmental response necessarily indicates that it worries the gently caress out of them? more than what information we have would suggest?? Otherwise, imo, they wouldn't already be looking for a scapegoat. The other option which I'm more hoping for is that they are using it as a proxy issue to push various trial balloons for enforcement methods and extremely authoritarian edicts. Disunity is easily censurable in the face of a concerning epidemic, etc
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Jan 25, 2020 22:51
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All these genocides, ethnonationalistic militaristic expansions, and emergent new rules enforcing strict despotic authoritarianism against practically any form of dissent in held areas will help China in their quest to oppose imperialism
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Jun 30, 2020 23:00
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GreyjoyBastard posted:guy who spent some time in the xinjiang The sheer scale of these things is like a new industrialization of state cruelty.
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Dec 4, 2020 18:05
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China has forcefully shut down marxist school or study groups and has arrested and blacklisted marxist academics, and it's been a not-secret-secret thing for a while now within the party that marxism is used as a messaging prop but is thoroughly disallowed from any usage in practice, so you get reminded to never actually become anything remotely marxist unless you enjoy being shut out of the circles of power. A couple of students who have gone on to be able to talk about their experience getting shut down and blacklisted for being actual marxists in China later noted that it felt very weird to experience being a marxist cracked down on by a supposedly marxist ruling party. They spent years having thought they were doing right by the party by being young academic marxists applying marxism -- then they have it all heavily and unsubtly shut down because workers' rights and worker organization efforts are anathema to the state in its actual form and apparatus.
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Jan 25, 2021 14:26
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Let Them Pick Cotton
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Mar 26, 2021 22:02
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fart simpson posted:i also don’t think it makes sense to say they’re being orientalist against themselves. what do you mean by that? As a specific example, North Korea's ideological treatises that were used as defining justifications for the structure and total power of the state are expressly 'orientalist against themselves' -- a combination of race essentialisms that paints the Korean race as pure, but fragile in ways which necessitates the condition of total autocracy, and the glorification of what is essentially a monarchy. South Korea flirts with the same notes, sometimes obnoxiously, and it resulted in choice disagreements with my family about everything from whether I should have kids in the US or even drive my own car. China's overall version of this poo poo is different and not so rigorously codified ... but one way or another, it just became a thing. Hardly the worst or weirdest part of han chauvinism and nationalism, but definitely observable.
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Mar 31, 2021 16:01
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fart simpson posted:well, what do you mean when you say authoritarian? how is the us less authoritarian than other countries mentioned that handled covid better? Which countries?
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Apr 2, 2021 04:42
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SlothfulCobra posted:If you're talking about the programs to take native and aboriginal children away from their parents to exterminate their culture, I guess it's an apt comparison, but it's still genocide. It is, the aboriginal schools are and should be regarded fully as genocide. Usually, nobody contests this, so any extensive deculturation and forced labor programs being considered genocidal shouldn't be controversial after a certain threshold of information about them. And there's been a lot of direct testimony. quote:The theoretical good intention through a lens of racist imperialism also rings a little more hollow because they're doing it to adults and using them for labor and organ harvesting in the meanwhile. Other claims entirely aside, the governmental tweets attempting to 'celebrate' the emancipation and newfound happiness and prosperity of the Uighur people have been absurdly wretched and depressingly straightforward. The tweet from the embassy claiming that Uighur women in the Xinjiang province "were emancipated" and "no longer baby-making machines" was a bit on the nose in a way they weren't intending. Or the one about the happy Uighurs picking cotton.
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Apr 4, 2021 04:38
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SlothfulCobra posted:Honestly in my opinion the one child policy was horrible and invasive and was already one of the classic examples of the Chininese government being incredibly oppressive of its citizenry, so it doesn't really increase my opinion of the government much for them to just not enforce it on some people. I'm not as shocked anymore whenever "More than one thing can be bad" ends up relevant, but it's weird that I've seen crossover attempts at genocide denialism that basically boil down to "here's this one bad thing that china wasn't doing at this time to this group supposedly impacted by other bad thing"
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Apr 4, 2021 21:11
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Yeah, the way they attempted to positive-face happy cotton picking field labor uyghurs out in the open on their own official channels just feels like the worst and most brazen kind of double down.
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Apr 5, 2021 06:42
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fart simpson posted:the gray zone doesn't spend much time talking about stuff like that not because they're uncritical but because their objective and mission is to report on american empire. they're not a general news organization. This supposed indemnification for their targeted silence sure hasn't stopped them from spending time talking about the genocide anyway (to deny it) This is like an operation like breitbart saying "we don't spend a lot of time talking about anything wrong conservatives do! But not because we're uncritical, it's because our specific mission is to report on not-conservatives doing bad things."
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Apr 6, 2021 06:02
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Chomskyan posted:Yeah, they're bad. Still not Auschwitz I heard this defense, verbatim, of the US border interment camps and child separation policy. And the camps we're talking about are certifiably, through direct witness experience, worse than them in more ways to count.
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Apr 6, 2021 17:03
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karthun posted:As a descendent of people who were forced into indigenous schools it was defiantly geocide. This. Not genocide-ey, straightforward all-the-way genocide. Also, I would point out that the Indigenous Schools was basically the fallback option over the impracticality of genocide by more direct means — massacre, headhunting bounty, and displacement via murder — once sufficient numbers of displaced first nations had been penned and made wards of the state. The only thing that prevented boosterism from jamming millions upon millions of native americans into concentration camps that slowly turn to death camps along the consistent patterns of acceleration ... was a matter of geographical and scale complication.
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Apr 7, 2021 01:28
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Rabelais D posted:He links to his patreon and shills "anarchist merch". I need something like CEO of Anarchist International Merchandising, Incorporated to exist
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Apr 9, 2021 02:31
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The more information comes out from direct sources, the more obvious it has become that the Uyghur suppression policy very very quickly integrated mass forced sterilization in combination with forced labor populace disruption and dispersion. The scale and reach is daunting, but the methodology is just ... modernized versions of venerable, long hypothesized genocidal concepts from eugenic schools of thought.
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Apr 16, 2021 13:11
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Stringent posted:Sorry, but could you repost this in English? Oh, my apologies. Occasionally, silly little me doesn't speak plain enough for my white language gatekeepers. You'll just have to be forgiving.
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Apr 16, 2021 13:45
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Peel posted:wilful incomprehension is a classic scoffing tactic but I think this is the most straightforward sentence I've seen someone try to pull it on Whatever takes the focus off the genocide, I guess
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Apr 17, 2021 02:27
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Is the point of this to say that China can either have their navy be taken seriously or taken littorally
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May 2, 2021 05:05
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Cookie Cutter posted:I've bolded the parts I find important - it seems we are in agreement that both sides are as bad as the other. However, what's happening in the US is not being labelled a genocide, but this word IS being used to describe what's happening in China by US media and intelligence services, the state department, Pompeo and the rest of the consent manufacturing machine. There's an enforced double standard at play in how we talk about this stuff that ultimately favours the US and its interests. If we were using the term to also describe the migrant crises in Europe and the USA's activities on its border or how it treats its own minority population I'd have no issue with it. Do you agree that the chinese government is committing genocidal acts against the Uyghur population in Xinjiang, or do you insist this is not the case or that we do not really know?
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Jun 16, 2021 10:02
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BrigadierSensible posted:This is a Chinese cartoon character. His name is Hui Tai Lang. Darn goats! I will definitely come back again!
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Jun 20, 2021 03:20
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Terminal autist posted:I believe it was the QCS drama that signal boosted thats we have a bunch of psycho racists really concerned about the Chinese question and "yellow hitler" I'm concerned that the Chinese government is committing genocide, because of the doing genocide thing that they're doing and trying to pass off as "vocational training," aren't you concerned? I'm always concerned by genocide, personally.
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Jun 28, 2021 17:04
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quote:For example, regarding the so-called "one-party system," which is not easily understood in the West, Authoritarianism tracking to purer forms of dictatorship, a concept obviously so foreign to the west that the west certainly installed no such regimes abroad.
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Jul 4, 2021 19:02
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Not to discount or crudely summarize your details, but what it mostly comes down to is that the CCP is enthusiastically committed to the CCP, and whoever rules the CCP will follow the boring and predictable future track of their own autocracy. the vested ruling class who inevitably consolidate power vertically within their own structures and broadly constrain the limits of acceptable dissent basically guarantee this. It's nothing even very unique to China. It's just very strange to watch from a perspective of global capitalism.
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Jul 4, 2021 19:49
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