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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Its all composed like those facial cap outtakes from LA Noire.

mysterious frankie posted:

I knew there was a vibe I was picking up while watching it muted!
---
Without sound the main character comes off like she maybe would be sent home from work because she was acting a little slaphappy. She's all like "Pffffffff whatever, haha, I have no idea what is happening. Man I should not have gone to the bar last night, because I am running on no sleep, have not showered and honestly I'm still p drunk"

I can't say I wouldn't love that if it was the case.
The only emotion they really nail is the look on the face of an actor doing less than serious community theater when they keep mugging to the audience like "did that just happen?"

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

It's easy to forget that we still don't have a really reliable process for people of varying skill levels to build software with a predictable build quality and timeline (fast, good, cheap, pick one). Games exacerbate this problem because they usually get released at a specific time rather than when the developers are happy with the product. Net result: some nontrivial percentage of games are going to get released in a woefully un-ready state.
Bolded is every software developer project lol. Good effort estimation is nearly nonexistent so everything just gets slotted into a project schedule based on a SME doing estimates and you fit the requirements in as you can. At a certain point your requirements are a list of nice to haves to prioritize and you need good design and programmer leads to dynamically fit in what you should instead of going for what you could.

Quality is intrinsic to every step in that the designers need to propose systems that won't be unmanageable to maintain, the programmers need to take those systems and translate them into code that not only works but is maintainable, and QA needs to figure out tests that not only prove the individual line items but proves the interactions between them are doing what the designers thought they wanted instead of just what they specified. Failures along the way add up and exacerbate situations where the testers come back with a defect and everybody laughs at the infeasibility of working in a fix at that stage.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Cardiovorax posted:

Yeah, that's the thing, really. People who build cars or houses or vacuum cleaners get to look at a design document that can actually show you every single part of it in advance and how to put it together into a predetermined shape. Any software project that reaches the point at which no single person can realistically read and have a full understanding of what every single line of code in it does anymore is pretty much made up as you go along. Software development is like a communal attempt to build a spaceship with a group of people who all work on a different part of it and none of who actually understand all of it, or have necessarily ever even seen it.

Except sometimes, someone also decides that they don't like this "steel" stuff and that they'd rather make all of their parts out of knurf instead, which they invented a week ago because unlike rocket scientists, programmers aren't constrained by petty limitations like having to make things out of physical substances that actually exist. It's kind of a miracle that this ends up producing something at all functional as often as it does.
The gulf between IT and manufacturing/building is more psychological in my experience. There's plenty of art and winging it in the physical world even with signed engineering design docs. The difference between a good scaffold builder and a bad one can mean the difference between taking a few hours or a few days to do the work it's enabling.

A PM of a 4 million dollar erection and a PM of a 4 million dollar software project are going to have very different agendas (but maybe they shouldn't). But the team leads are going to have very similar experiences. No one person will be familiar with every aspect of the erection. Like that scaffold building is going to be a line item in the bill to the PM. But how they go about it is very important to the super who can then relay to the team lead or super how things are going. A good plan and a good super mean they can point at the doc and say well we really need some scaffold like this, don't just build it straight up next to the junk. Coding doesn't work much different. A technical architect says hey how about we do XYZ by ABC and the programmers can be like yeah cool, we can do it but also maybe do D to better hook into E.

It goes back to being maintainable, whether it's a code base, a building plan, or the building.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Cardiovorax posted:

I haven't played Anthem and by God I don't plan to, but I'm guessing they decided on this on the basis that you might not start out with a full set of gear and they didn't want you to have your base weapon's stats divided by 8 or whatever until you can find enough loot to fill up the empties.
But it's linear at least, that seems more sane to balance from the outside.

I haven't played either making us a bunch of weirdos talking about balancing hearsay but if that description is accurate it's super weird. Varying the denominator makes it a weird polynomial which is the root cause of edge cases where you get naked and better. It's a loot game, you should never be encouraged to go naked.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Cardiovorax posted:

It doesn't, really. If you had to treat it as a conventional function, then yes, it would be needlessly complex, but in programming, you have the option to use "self-correcting" math of a sorts. Imagine it as (A0 + A1 + ... + A8) / NumberOfFilledSlots, if NumberOfFilledSlots >= 1. It's trivial to program that kind of thing, so for practical purposes, it's really equally easy to do.
I'm not talking about a computer understanding the function, I'm talking about a designer understanding it to make informed decisions on loot stats, loot drops, etc.

Loot games love inventing weird polynomials. The genre is basically trying to invent fun math stuff for the designer. But at the end of the day it should make an interesting game, not one where the maximized choice is nakedness.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Seems like a feature, not a bug.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

TheMaskedUgly posted:

This is a weird take for me, since where I'm from, the price of a AAA game has risen by literally 100% since I started buying games in the late 90s, and that's before you account for special editions and DLC.

And also because games are apparently selling here for the same number of moneys as the US, despite the exchange rate being vastly different.
Nice humblebrag about living somewhere with real wage growth for middle and lower classes.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

haveblue posted:

I wish more games would tell you the total weight of your inventory so you could remind yourself that you're running and jumping all over the place with 350 pounds of lances in your backpack.
Yeah and also make it a high score.

I wandered the frozen north, and now I have 500 pounds of wooden cups. A true measure of heroism.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

haveblue posted:

I didn't understand it until I played Fallout 4, where stealing everything that isn't nailed down is much more important than most games.
Old Beth game feedback: people have the strangest compulsion to steal completely worthless cups constantly clogging their inventory

FO4 solution: make cups valuable and consumable in crafting

Gonna bet you can alchemize cups into magic in the next TES game.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
A breakpoint is a debug tool that stops active threads and yells at you/starts a source/memory debugger at a predetermined point. He was asking why they couldn't set a watch breakpoint on the height variable and see what caused it when they figured out it was fall damage code. He wasn't saying cap the NPC height variable or whatever you might have thought that meant.

Which I think the answer is more because they didn't realize it was fall damage until they had figured it out totally. They had localized it to the player ship because that's where the NPC = dead code could trigger with a game setting turned on that prevents death usually. And then noticed the companion climbing to the moon and had the eureka moment.

E. I reread it and I guess they did have that bunch earlier than the eureka, and you know what they probably did have something like a breakpoint and they just didn't call it out explicit. But you still have to do the ground work to find out how exactly they can get to that height at all.

zedprime has a new favorite as of 14:33 on Dec 13, 2019

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
If we really want to navel gaze The Outer World's and what happens when you just forbid an undesired behavior, it sounds that's almost exactly what caused the bug. They turned off furniture functions blanket during conversations, even though there is at least the one that has a paired interaction in order to start laddering and stop laddering. Good object docs and impact review could have stopped that in a perfect world.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
They don't love climbing, they are inexorably linked to compulsively continue the act as long as someone one else is staring expectantly at someone after they just said something. They are in climbing hell and their only absolution comes when someone manages to say goodbye.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Speaking of, Crysis physics were so good. Fondly remember maximum strength punching a turtle which rebounded at me so violently I died.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Object oriented programming but you can bodily pick up the object to access it's private space.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Plastik posted:

"Leaked" insofar as it was posted bitterly by a player in the SS13 thread who dislikes the secrecy culture surrounding the game.

Also you might want to edit out the link and instead link to the post, as it was posted in a forum inaccessible to non-goons and this forum isn't that.
*Clutches pearls* by God, non-goons with the SS13 spoilers? It'll be chaos when anybody can create *looks at spoilers* Energy Drink.

That chemistry list makes Graveyard Keepers alchemy system look kind and user friendly.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Ugly In The Morning posted:

Oh no, it’s suffering! :ohdear:

How does something like that even end up happening?

Cardiovorax posted:

What on Earth did they do to that poor Switch?
They mention in the thread its frozen. And occasionally things will freeze in such a way the sound processing still manages to pipe out the last tone or some combination of tones stuck in its buffer.

Frozen sound processing is usually unworldly because noone is ready to hear tones isolated like that.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Oh, it obvious, they uhh, clocks sometimes, uhh.

I don't understand.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Things you wish someone had video of but instead you have a workaround note from the dev:

There is a known rendering issue where a "black blob" expands from the skybox and clouds the player's view. If the player stays in one spot and spins around rapidly on the left-to-right axis (instead of rolling), this will temporarily fix the issue.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Do people like the platforming parts in Destiny? It seems by and for the 5 people still making and playing Sven Coop challenge maps in 2009.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Pokemon is one of the notable/earliest example because it is routinely hacking itself in order to fit everything in a Gameboy.

Yellow is then layering in more hacks on top of the hacks.

The good news is that Pokemon and Gameboys do not have access to your bank account so it's just a neat bare metal interface.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
"Wow I can't believe there's a 151st pokemon!"
Neither can GameFreak, kid.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
If it's working as intended and fully defined in the spec but the intention is stupid it's still usually called a bug.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Cardiovorax posted:

Hey, just because you don't care about the difference doesn't mean there isn't one, at least in how and why issues like this crop up and in what you need to do to resolve them. Bugs are largely programming flaws and the unintended behaviour is a mistake, something that can be fixed if you can figure out what was done wrong. A glitch is an emergent thing, where a bunch of often nearly uncontrollable factors come together in a way that causes the program to behave in ways it wasn't ever supposed to. They can be completely unique to the system the software is running on, possibly even caused by the hardware itself.

Unhandled edge cases, on the other hand, are the bane of every software developer because no matter how idiot-proof you try to make your software, there will always be a better idiot who comes up with something to break your work in unexpected ways that no sane person would have expected anyone to ever do with it. You know what's going on and exactly what you need to do fix the issue, it's just frustrating because people will still blame you for not being able to think of as many stupid ideas to pre-emptively catch and handle as all users of your product can when put together.
Ok I think I get it now. Bugs and glitches are honest mistakes of the hardworking programmers and hardware/kernel developers making technical mistakes. Meanwhile edge cases aren't even the programmers fault, they wouldn't happen except those stupid end users are such big idiots using things the wrong way.

Backing up entirely into project management speak for accuracy of language, this is a clear defect. In a video game meant to give end users fun, there's a bug that prevents you from taking good swimming screenshots in photo mode, a drag on the gameplay experience. From a quality point of view we return back to the idea in one of the first comments of how did this bug not get caught in quality in a test requiring them to test photo mode once in every movement mode and combat animation. We can argue that the designers hosed up the spec by not considering edge cases or call users stupid for wanting screenshots of swimming or say actually it's intended just like the leaves doinking into your face and it's up to the user to get a good shot around the dynamic elements and maybe all these takes are correct but at the end of the day it's time to put your coding gloves on and figure out a way to freeze water while you're swimming or make static characters bob in water while otherwise motionless.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Captain Monkey posted:

If you cannot take perfect pictures of the samurai Jin Sakai, the Ghost of Tsushima, bathing in the ocean then your samurai mongol-killing simulator is a FAILURE
The game is what it is based on strengths and faults more important than photo mode. I'm just arguing against the idea that waves rolling over frozen samurai man is somehow my fault for being a bad user who wants pictures of him at an awkward time.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
*giant bong rip* do you think God would call Hitler a problem between chair and keyboard?

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I haven't played since release/the Sony days but I remember it being the least offensive amount of pay to win while still being pay to win. If you were used to following the balance meta for absolute best TTK all the time every single second, they had your number because the balance patches came fast and poorly thought out so you'd have no chance to have banked up enough to buy the latest buffed gun. But you could grind out the simple upgrade/faction specific/best weapon for short and mid range pretty quickly and not be at a total disadvantage to whales buying licenses for the accidental flavor of the week.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Fact checking is what the flight simmers are doing right now. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft starts selling the 3d geodata commercially 5 years after Flight Sim nerds have smoothed it all out :tinfoil:

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Skilled players can land in the plane hole but I don't think anyone has made it out.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
If anyone tells you they know how memory pointers work they are a liar.

E. The Red Dead donkey ladies and such were definitely weird memory point things and that was 10 years ago which I guess is only so much more recent than Pokemon.

marshmallow creep posted:

I remember in one playthrough the character I wanted to propose to left the game long before I was done playing (which happened because I did her quest sooner rather than later, as you might when you're interested in a character) and someone else maxed out by accident as I neared endgame. Realizing this meant I was in "love" with someone I didn't actually want, I found a random NPC I could tolerate and just gave them a bunch of harpsbud juice until they loved me. So the person who showed up in the infamous cutscene was a literal nobody with only idle NPC chatter by way of speaking lines. I thought that was funny, at least.
There's a real world marriage allegory in here somewhere.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I have boundless optimism and I can't wait till July 2021 when the games been patched, it's out on next gen consoles, and consoles and video cards can be bought by normal people.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Very important lesson about why even if you can render junk, the solution is often not to render junk.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Certain angles of Jak and Daxter 2 look like a GTA contemporary to it. I don't think looking like GTA is a very specific characteristic.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Croccers posted:

I don't get this one, how is this CD's fault? Wouldn't it be the publishers duty for game cards?
CD Projekt supplying the images and probably signing off on final digital or printed proofs.

Microsoft probably not looking any harder at the art and proofs than the Cyberpunk Iconic Penis is not peeking out.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Cardiovorax posted:

They also self-publish, as flatluigi pointed out, so it's entirely possible that the only thing CDPR did was to send the print company a finished image file and telling them to "print this design" without any further input on their part.
The consoles run a much tighter ship on keygen than Steam for example so Xbox key cards are going to be administered through an Xbox managed process and that printer is going to be listening to Microsoft at the end of the day and not CD Projekt directly.

I would put money on the process (and mistake) being the CD Projekt sent the art to a Microsoft account partner, who sends them to offshore to be composited into a template, with Microsoft and CD Projekt singing off on the digital proof to send to the printer, then sent a physical proof. Offshore almost assuredly had a weird icon loading error so the logo that got a stock icon stuck on instead and nobody bothered to look at the proofs. Alternately CD Projekt sent a bum icon instead of their logo too. The source of the error isn't really the place to point fingers when you have proof sign offs.

This has been the process for like any digital to physical bulk print job of the past 20 years because you do have SNAFUs like that in putting the template together and is this case Microsoft is again not going to be looking too hard at things like CD Projekt branding. That's the sort of thing the CD Projekt rep would see on the digital proof and ask to correct. You can also get stuff like the digital art conversion to CMYK channels doesn't get you the brand approved colors or similar printing translation problems which is the point of the physical proof.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I don't know that I'd call it interestingly nuanced given the basic complaint is a normal player is just completely unaware of all that nuance. I get that if you're into systems porn it's really cool on paper and maybe even in practice if you lead a digital safari looking for some of the weirder things. It's just nuanced but not in an interesting way in that case though. Get back to my favorite idea that if it's working as intended and the intention isn't good then maybe it's ok to call it a bug even if it's not an apparent effect from a technical mistake.

Were kind of missing different contexts here in Oblivion vs Cyberpunk too. Morrowind and Dagger fall were kind of famous for real feeling towns in a 3d sandbox RPG so radiant AI was Bethesda fishing for the next great thing in that space. They got their peak in ladder scripted NPCs and wanted to see what the next level could be. But any flaw here was gonna be seized on real hard because TES is "that good town" series and because of the growing pains we're back to mostly ladder logic framed in their radiant system again.

Cyberpunk is trying to turn their horse and peasants open world into a city open world. The bugs we're laughing at here are a much more fundamental failure to coalesce a believable city and are seized on because above all else you at least you want to feel like you're in a city and lanes diverging into barriers blowing up cars is very not city like.

There's a paragraph you could write here about "delighters" and "expected needs" and their change over time but if I did that I'd have to take a shower afterwards to wash the slime off so I guess all that to say ok sure radiant AI did nothing wrong.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Cardiovorax posted:

Standard 1/10000 gauge shotgun shell, I'm not seeing the problem.
Fixed for way gauging works.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I'm glad autosaves are so prevalent now, I've finally gotten passed having the urge to quicksave my life.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Cleretic posted:

A bit of a curveball from the usual, from the Nier Replicant PC port:

https://twitter.com/Theswweet/status/1385757947112804357

The 'explain it like I'm five' explanation: The game's running into critical, crash-worthy errors when running just as a normal matter of course. ...But apparently nobody told Nier that, because the game runs completely fine and has no notable issues despite all coding logic saying it should be crashing constantly.

It's an anti-glitch! Everything is normal when nothing should be!
Nier having an exceptional day I see.

Wonder if this is related to the completely valid baller exception handling that is to tell the exception "cool, I don't care."

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

evobatman posted:

I think there was something about how the creators of Eternal Darkness took out a patent on the reality-messing effects, and that's why it isn't used much.
I don't have any exact sources but it feels like this comes up in every dev discussion about sanity adjacent games and most of them say Eternal Darkness (and Metal Gear Solid's Psycho Mantis before it) could only ever work as a single bolt of lightning and/or its very much a product of the time. Specifically for the meta parts, because games like Bloodborne/certain parts of Souls, Control, Undertale, Nier Automata do get pretty weird in universe and presentation occasionally. Among other things we don't have nearly as narrow of a language of technology that lets you do a convincing volume, input source, or controller freak out.

I think Silicon Knights also reminisced about how they slammed Nintendo support with non-tech-savy, non-self-aware players calling about the game breaking their TV or thinking the spatial incongruences were bugs.

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

WonkyBob posted:

Cutscene glitches seem to be happening in Vice too, this one also has some hilariously wonky gun holding (the model looks slightly too big when he sits on the couch).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf6krDNklDY
As you can clearly see here behind all the vibrating guards clipping through each other, the gun model is slightly too big.

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