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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:What's the best way to introduce characters who have well-used nicknames? I'm planning to have a group of soldiers in a short story. Is there a real need to refer to them by anything but their nicknames? I think it's pretty well-accepted that soldiers all have nicknames for each other, so it wouldn't be jarring in a story to see someone called "Dusty" or whatever the whole time. If you decide to do the second route, you have to be very careful. I can't tell you how many scenes I've read where someone is alternately referred to by a nickname or description and then their full name, and I have to stop and figure out if these two people are the same thing. Your example handles it well.
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Aug 3, 2012 06:19
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SkySteak posted:Is it bad that I feel a little put off given the recent drama? I don't know, between that massive blowup in that other thread and what Martello said about stories just being dismissed, I feel really put off about posting here. I know it's silly but I dunno, it just feels a bit worrying. Not to say critique is valueless of course but yeah. I think everyone needs to understand that this isn't "a safe place for you to express yourself creatively, free of judgement." This community will kill your darlings, not coddle them. If you are lucky, we will use a scapel. You should post here to find the crucible, not avoid it. When someone asks for "feedback" but refuses to accept any criticism, they insult us by wasting our time. When someone posts a lovely first draft, they insult us by asking us to spend time when they couldn't be bothered. When all someone offers is a useless one line response, they insult us by demanding less than they give in return. If you ignore these principles occasionally, you will be chastised. If you break them repeatedly, you will be ridiculed mercilessly. If you disagree with them, you should make like a frog and get out. If you want to be a good writer, then you should put your whole heart into the effort, and thank these good people who do you the favor of ripping it apart.
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Aug 5, 2012 09:19
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Argh, how the hell does one tell one's inner critic to shut the hell up and stop screaming "this poo poo sucks" when I'm trying to write? I cannot stop myself from trying to re-write the opening of my short story a billion times. It's driving me crazy. I typically title all my first drafts "super-lovely first draft that will inevitably be terrible" and then start writing and don't look back. I find acknowledging that it's going to suck balls helps the inner critic go away. What is it going to say when I've already labeled the thing a piece of poo poo? And my first drafts are, in fact, incredibly awful. Lots of telling, lots of telling at really awkward places because I forgot to tell it earlier and just thought of it now, when it ties in to whatever other thing I'm telling about. The thing about first drafts is that they're just for getting your ideas down on paper, and it doesn't matter how much they suck, because you are going to rewrite and fix nearly every goddamned part of it later. But you have to get that poo poo down on paper first so you have something to rewrite and fix. And you have to get the ENTIRE thing down, because that's the only way you can have enough of what happens really figured out to put everything where it needs to be. Like if you haven't written to the end scene where your heroine uses her cut-off grappling hook like a lasso to catch the bad guy, then you don't know that you need to put something in at the beginning mentioning she grew up on a farm and knows how to use a lasso.
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Aug 12, 2012 23:31
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Jonked posted:
Middle grade and YA are two very different audiences. As far as word-count, middle grade books tend to be novella-length, YA tends to be longer. Seriously, though, worry about writing a good story before you worry about selling it. (not that I haven't wistfully browsed duotrope myself.) It might be worthwhile to do a little more research about middle grade and YA fiction to see what themes they cover as you work out the details of the story. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Aug 16, 2012 |
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Aug 16, 2012 22:49
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Nautatrol Rx posted:The rest of his/her point comes down to picking word-count, an audience, and a genre has a different effect than you might imagine. It colors your perception before you even put ink to wood. When you're thinking Young Adult novel, you're thinking in narrow terms. Unless you are extremely familiar with what makes a marketable and enjoyable YA book (meaning one of the people who is actively selling them), it will be hard for you to directly target that audience and the gatekeepers to that audience. Quibbles/elaboration (because talking about writing is fun!) I think it's fine to plan to write a story for a particular audience. I see it a lot like writing in a genre. The range of possible stories is still very broad. If you want to write for middle grade or YA, it's important to know what that means. I don't mean word counts or where to publish. I mean themes, what's important to kids those age, the conflicts they are interested in, their emotional maturity, etc. The best way to write for a specific audience isn't to find some formula (where?) and cram your story into it (duh). It's to read good stuff that's already out there. Just like if you want to write sci-fi, you read sci-fi, if you want to write crime procedurals, read crime procedurals, etc. I don't mean exclusively, of course, read broadly and all that, but I do think you need to be familiar with a genre to write in it successfully. If you have a good idea, write it. Make it as good as you can. You can almost certainly make it fit into word count requirements later, if it ever becomes necessary to do so.
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Aug 17, 2012 04:18
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Jonked posted:Thanks for the advice, both of you. I do want to defend myself though. I didn't sit down and decide "Young adult fiction looks profitable, I'll try to write that." I never thought or intended to imply that you were trying to write YA like that! (Unlike my work buddy who came into my office today and told me she is sure we can write "the next Twilight." Yeah, 'cause 1000 other people aren't already trying to do that  )Everything I said in my last post was more general advice, not directed specifically at you (I could have made that clearer, in retrospect). And so is this: I don't think there's anything wrong with actually wanting to be published. I know that's my ultimate goal, too. And now there's the added bonus of a fruit basket if I ever write anything really great! Some stories ultimately get rejected because of market, but mostly the story or the writing itself is the reason. Especially for beginning writers. That's why the advice in here is constantly "Read! Read! Read! Write! Write! Write!" For me, at least, writing is loving hard, and it's much easier to go off to la-la land where I'm raking in the dough from a seven movie deal. It pains me to acknowledge that writing is a skill that requires tons of time and dedication to learn, and that I haven't mastered it yet (this is because I am a whiney special snowflake). So I appreciate the repeated advice. Uh, and with all that said, I'm going to finish my Thunderdome entry now....
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Aug 17, 2012 05:36
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Baggy_Brad posted:Here's a new topic. As a haven't-made-it writer, I've criticized a couple stories posted here for being too ambiguous. In those cases, I felt ambiguity was used as a substitute for real tension and story development. This ties into the recent "all short stories must have epiphanies" trend discussed earlier. Instead of building to an emotional/plot-based conclusion, they just hide pertinant information from the reader and then stick it in later as a "big reveal." They try to substitude hiding the set-up for the actual plot. In most of the instances like this that I've seen, they actually had a fine story that would have benefited from making the sitation clear earlier. I'm not against stories that make me think, but withholding information isn't a shortcut to intellectually stimulating work.
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Sep 5, 2012 22:15
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Nirvikalpa posted:I think joyless might have been the wrong word. I like reading, but I don't really like what I'm reading. I think with non-fiction it's better because at least I'm learning. But with novels, I enjoy the process of reading, but I end up revolted by the subject matter most of the time or I can't understand it. Here's what you need to do: Read one novel every week, start to finish, for the next year. You must finish every one, even if you don't like it (life is hard, sorry). Set aside time each day for this task. It's not pleasure, it's work. I hope that over time you will discover the joy in reading and this will become pleasure not work, but regardless, you must persevere. Each night, after you're done reading, take 15 minutes to write about what you read. What you liked (if anything), what you didn't like, most importantly why you liked/didn't like whatever. Don't whine that you don't have time for this. I work a full time job, have a social life, and read multiple novels each week (on average, I'm not perfect, geez). You have to make it a priority. Read widely. Try to read every type of novel until you find one that you enjoy. Science fiction, fantasy, mystery, horror, suspense, thriller, legal drama, literary fiction, young adult, classics, modern classics, Vonnegut, Cormac McCarthy, Dickens, Jane Austen, read them all (or others). You said Twilight and the Hunger Games weren't the best books. Have you read either one? Read at least one of them. I recommend The Hunger Games, because I liked that one (and I also haven't read Twilight). If you have some idea of what you think you might like (for example, the kind of book you want to write), read about books in that genre until you find one that looks good. Check out Good Reads and Amazon reviews and try to actively pick things that seem interesting. Once you find a book you enjoy (by about 15 weeks in, I'd guess), then use that as a jumping off point to find more books. A literary agent once said "don't try to write a middle grade novel unless you've read 150 middle grade novels that were released in the past three years." That's really good advice. You can supplement, but not replace, this program by reading books about writing. Start with Reading Like a Writer by Francine Prose (surely a fake name, right?) and On Writing by Stephen King. These are broad overviews. Move on, if you want to, to books on specific subjects like plot, dialogue, etc. I can't tell you if any of these is better than any other, because writing isn't like doing a god damned math problem where there's a right way and a wrong way. There's only the way that works for you. Write. On top of your fifteen minutes a day writing about reading, try to find at least an hour a day to write your own fiction. It's going to suck. Not because you're a lovely writer, but because you are an inexperienced writer. It's cool, you just have to write a bunch of crap for a while, so start now and get it out of the way. I'm still in this phase myself and it's loving killing me, but you have to do it. Sorry, but nobody just starts making GBS threads out beautiful prose and convincing, compelling, powerful stories the first time their fingers hit the keyboard. You have to write about 10,000 pages of poo poo first. Copying and Pasting "poo poo" over and over again so it fills up 10,000 pages doesn't count, either. Edit yourself. Set aside some time to go back over what you wrote many, many times. The details of this are personal and depend on your writing style, but you should be editing everything at least three times. Think hard about every scene, paragraph, sentence, word. Is it necessary? Does it make a difference to the story? Know what every loving word you write accomplishes. Argue for it. Every word you write is on trial to determine its worthiness to exist in your story. Have no mercy. Words don't have feelings, they are like shrimp, it's cool. Writing is a skill, and it's one you learn by reading and writing. Do this. Here are some of my favorite novels. You might notice this list is heavily biased towards speculative fiction. That's because that's what I personally like. I'm not saying you should read all (or any) of these, it's just a jumping off point, use it how you want. Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch: hilarious tale of good and evil One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest: modern classic about inmates in a mental institution, narrator is insane, villain is an emasculating bitch of a nurse. The Road: Literary post-apocalyptic fiction about a man and his son. Contains lots of big words. Your world is full of ashes and everything is dead. Wuthering Heights: classic tale of an ill-fated romance and its curse on everyone near by. May contain ghosts, real and metaphorical. Ender's Game: Sci-Fi about a genius kid sent to battle school, my first literary crush <3. Game of Thrones: Epic fantasy dealing more with political intrigue than magic. Cloud Atlas: Modern literary fiction that spans multiple characters and centuries, words cannot describe. Over Sea, Under Stone: Kids find some serious King Arthur poo poo, magic. The Picture of Dorian Grey: Stolen tagline from Amazon, "Celebrated novel traces the moral degeneration of a handsome young Londoner from an innocent fop into a cruel and reckless pursuer of pleasure." The Great Book of Amber (Amber Chronicles #1-10): Epic fantasy that's not set in a Tolkien-derived world. Kafka on the Shore: Magical realism (I guess?), blew my mind, compelled me to start listening to classical music again, your milage may vary. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep: basis for the movie Blade Runner, but somehow completely different from the movie. Oryx and Crake: Post-apocalyptic fiction. The Big Sleep: Hard-boiled detective novel, real literature. Unff. Perdito Street Station: Sci-fi that invents the most insane world that you could never have imagined yourself and has no spaceships. The Time Traveller's Wife: Romance, with art and time travel for good measure. The Chronicles of Prydain: Straight-forward kid's fantasy, just done really well. The Lord of the Rings: The father of 90% of modern epic fantasy for a reason. One Hundred Years of Solitude: Magical realism/literary fiction masterpiece. ---------------------------------------------- Actually, I'd really love to hear any of you other writer's reading recommendations, because I just got a library card. Oh Yeah. Edit: haha, some poo poo happened while I was typing up this giant serious post. Bonus: The worst book I've ever read is Wizard War: http://www.amazon.com/Wizard-War-Chronicles-Age-Darkness/dp/0445208600/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1347169213&sr=1-1&keywords=wizard+war Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Sep 9, 2012 |
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Sep 9, 2012 06:28
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Nirvikalpa posted:Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm starting school, and it's kicking my rear end already. Maybe in four years? I'm not that desperate to write well. Oh well, if you don't care about doing it well, then just have at it, type up a bunch of poo poo, shove it down the throats of all your friends and family, and bask in their awkward, insincere praise.
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Sep 9, 2012 07:14
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If I've learned anything in life, it's that college is the definitely the hardest part. Once you graduate, it's pretty much free sailing and doing whatever the gently caress you want all the time. Money rolls in so fast you can pay some shlub to do the laundry and the dishes and just sit in your authentic Herman Miller chair at your custom designed writing desk and write. When you get tired of writing, you go over to your reading nook, and sit down on Turkish silk pillows and all the best novels that are perfectly to your taste appear and read themselves directly into your brain. I easily get through at least 20 novels per day like this, but I'm a really fast assimilator. Your body's need for food and sleep basically disappear, so you have an extra six to eight hours a day (depending on how many stimulants you used to get through the hellish crucible of undergrad) to devote to long inspiring walks or critique groups. Of course, everything you write is so mind-blowingly good that no one has anything bad to say. You go to bars and toss out some choice quotes from your latest novels and girls line up to give you blow jobs while their boyfriends buy you drinks. Your parents are so impressed and proud that they move in with you and take care of all of the trivial details of life like going to dentist appointments for you and raising your kids, but they never boss you around or complain when you bring all the girls home from the bar because you're just so amazing they totally understand. You're dad wants to give you a high-five but he doesn't because it might affect your groove. You drink all the time, not because you're crushed by the weight of competing responsibilities and desires, but because you enjoy it. It also makes you an even better writer. You have a bottle of merlot and just crank out three chapters of pure genius every night. You have the most fabulous dinner parties and Cormac McCarthy can't even get over how amazing your mom's latkes are. Everyone is scrambling for an invite, but you regulate stringently. Bestselling authors only, sorry. You can't do any of this awesome poo poo while you're in school, obviously, because you're taking fifteen hours of class a week and maybe studying between all the networking functions you have to go to. You're so busy writing ten page essays on why the Victorians loved trains that you can't possibly find time to read twenty pages from an unassigned book a day. But once you make it through those grueling four years of torture, you're free and clear. The whole world spreads it's lush, freshly waxed legs in front of you. You've arrived into the magical world of adulthood, where freetime is all the time and you never have to wake up at 5am to try to cram a couple hours of writing out before you go to your horrendous, boring job. In fact, life is so easy that you decide to take a day job as a waiter, just to learn something about the common man's experience. One day your boss tells you to be more cheerful, because your sullen, self-satisfied approach to work is driving away customers. "DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO I AM?" you shout, overturning the nearest table. You say your name and everyone in the restaurant stands up and applauds, even the guy with applesauce running down his shirt from your table-flipping gymnastics. The jock at table 3 gives your boss a killer wedgie and everyone spits on him. Then they all pull out their iPhones and preorder your next three books, and when one chick doesn't have an iPhone, the girl next to her gets her address and preorders one for her because everyone is that loving hyped about how great your books are. Also, no one tells you this, but when you graduate, all you have to do is ask the Dean and he will give you a magic pen that writes best selling YA series that get made into million dollar movie series. I obviously knew about this secret (I'm J. K. Rowling, btw) and someone must have told Stephanie Meyers (that coattail riding bitch), too. Orson Scott Card got one but his broke when he tried to actually write down his own ideas. Don't make that mistake. Just when you're really enjoying your success, some well-meaning soul asks "how can I be a good writer" and you spend thirty minutes typing up a real sincere-sounding post about working hard. Then, you climb into a bath filled with Dom Perignon and virgins' breast milk blest by the Pope and you laugh and laugh at all those idiots out there trying to become successful writers by "working hard." All those poor, stupid idiots.
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Sep 9, 2012 08:24
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Perdido Street Station stuff.sebmojo posted:I'd be interested to know what you think of this. By about halfway I was sick of his bullshit. I finished it in a kind of vituperative fury, mutilated it with a huge pair of pinking shears and fastballed it into the bin. I remember at some point while reading it I got super-disgusted by the fact that he wrote bug-headed ladies who reproduce through their bug heads, yet still have vaginas. Why would they have those? Just so his main character could have sex with one of them?! UGH. I definitely skimmed some of this book, but I still recommend it occasionally. Mostly because it's such an amazingly unique world. Whether or not it was wise to recommend it to someone who "wants to learn to write" but "hates reading" because he finds the "subject matter of novels repulsive" is up for debate.
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Sep 11, 2012 05:20
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Stuporstar posted:I wanted to like China Mieville because his settings are like gothic cathedrals filled with gargoyles. Unfortunately, so is his prose. I liked The City & The City better than Perdido Street Station. I don't actually love Mieville to bits, but if you're interested in fantasy that really breaks the Tolkien mold, he's worth checking out. If you checked him out and didn't like him, I don't blame you at all. I realized today, though, that I haven't really been blown away by any adult fantasy lately. I probably need to try harder to find the good stuff. Turns out "whatever's on the shelf at Salvation Army" isn't the best selection process. I've definitely learned a lot about writing from reading so much crap this past year, though!
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Sep 16, 2012 05:49
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justcola posted:It'd also be interesting to maybe compile a list of books that are relatively easy to read for someone who hasn't read many books yet is good enough to get the reader excited about books. For my brother this was harry potter and for me it was goosebumps, though if I was in my twenties and had barely read I may be more receptive to something like The Old Man And The Sea or The Stranger rather than going for Moby Dick or Gravity's Rainbow. My thoughts kept coming back to this over the past few days, and I really disagree that The Stranger or The Old Man and the Sea would be good introductions to people who don't enjoy reading. I really like both of them, but they aren't remotely tantalizing. And they are both frequently assigned high school reading, so slogging through them is likely to bring back bad memories of having to slog through boring poo poo because your teacher says it's "meaningful." This may be awful and embarrassing, but I decided that if I had a friend now who didn't much like reading, I would start them off with Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman: Funny, satirical, plot driven, and easy to read, but less retarded than Dan Brown.
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Sep 21, 2012 06:42
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I agree with Erik Shawn-Bohner that constant false starts can lead to a pretty brutal feeling of failure. But so can refusing to write anything because you can't seem to finish your current story. Sometimes you just have to call something "finished enough for now" and move on. It's not the same as abandonment. For me, they become notes for later. So I think a big question is, are you finishing anything? More than half of what you start? Or are you constantly starting and abandoning? Personally, this tends to happen to me when I become overly convinced of the importance of what I'm writing. I start thinking "THIS, this is the break-out short story that I will build my career on. It's gotta be perfect!" then I totally shut down, because every flaw is tantamount to being a complete and utter failure as a writer. Good times! Especially if you find your attention wavering after about a week, giving yourself less than a week to complete and share something might help. Participating in Thunderdome has forced me to finish and post things that are terrifyingly imperfect. It's been the best and most awesome thing for my writing. Bravery bordering on recklessness is a key component of writing. Regarding our old friend, liquid courage, it is entirely possible to do this: Erik Shawn-Bohner posted:
Without doing this: Erik Shawn-Bohner posted:For me, it took an angsty, existential crisis leading to drinking my rear end off for a few years until I had so thoroughly hosed up my situation that writing seemed like a fairly reasonable occupation to take up full-time if not the only one available to me then. I don't think Erik was advising would-be writers to hit rock-bottom, but the power of alcohol tends to get a tad over-glorified, in my opinion. Can it help you open up to emotions and shut down criticism to get writing? Suuuuure, sometimes. It can also become a huge danger and waste of time, something that hampers writing rather than helping. No matter what, writing requires a huge amount of determination. You have to keep writing, even when you're not "feeling it." You also have to make yourself feel all the terrible emotions you put your characters through--and then keep putting them through even worse. I can't stand to have anyone look at me when I'm writing; it's too intimate. I have been known to hide under the covers when writing a particularly tough scene. If you're getting bored with your idea, kick things up a notch, go crazy, have a character go crazy, make aliens invade, whatever. To learn to write, you have to write and edit complete stories. Just acknowledge that the first dozen or so (ha ha, more like 50+) are going to be god awful.
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Sep 24, 2012 20:24
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justcola posted:I was wondering if/how other people celebrate when they've finished a large project? I'm probably going to finish my book today and usually treat myself with cheap cigars and fortified wine, though I'm thinking of something a little classier this time around. $10 bubbly. But I don't wait for a "large project."
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Sep 26, 2012 06:20
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toanoradian posted:What is this 'planning' thing you're talking about? NaNoWriMo is about the writing, man. Not this planning, outlining, thinking bull. When November starts I'm just going to spew 1667 words directly from my brain to the monitor and I won't look back until November is over. Uggggghhh, I did this about five years ago and dear lord. I might try again this year though, because I have an idea with an actual plot arc that's been jumping around my brain for a month. If I can actually get some brainstorm and general outlining done, I might be able to use Nano to write a real first draft. It will be a goddamned awful piece of poo poo, of course, but my first drafts always are.
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Sep 28, 2012 06:59
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I think a lot of what seems like "natural talent" is actually hard work done for other reasons. For example if you've read like crazy your whole life, when you sit down to write there's a good chance you'll start ahead of someone who hasn't. I love the idea for a daily word count commitment thread, but I'm not sure if I'll participate. I need to write more, but my first drafts are universally awful and posting them for critique would be a waste of everyone's time. And then there's no way to "get credit" for editing, which actually takes up the bulk of my time (and is the only way I can write anything remotely okay). So it might not work for my writing style.... Blargh, I'll probably commit to 500 words or something, that should keep my new writing moving and still allow me time for editing, right?
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Sep 30, 2012 21:49
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Why do you want to put it in first person if the words are rolling out in third? There's nothing wrong about third person, so why fight it? (Alternately, write it in third and edit it to first later)
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Oct 4, 2012 02:05
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I don't think there are "good guy guns" and "bad guy guns," except that maybe automatic weapons are more often "bad guy guns." But if a good guy was fighting bad guys with automatic weapons, it wouldn't be wrong for him to carry one other. The morals one fights for have little to do with how one fights (except maybe requiring you to fight fair.) Here are some inputs into gun choice: 1) What are you going to do with it? (sneaky assassinations? sniping? barging into heavily fortified buildings? "shoot people," okay, what kind? Do they have body armor? Do you care if you hit bystanders or if your bullets go through walls?) 2) How are you going to carry it/what restrictions do you have on carrying it? (does it have to fit in a pocket? in a boot? a violin case?) 3) How much are you ("your character") willing to spend? How much can they really afford to spend? 4) What feels right in your hand? This one's personal, so you can just make something up, but if it's a big dude or a tiny dude, you might check out some forums where people talk about how guns fit them (I have tiny hands and prefer totally different guns than my big-handed friends). 5) How many shots do you want before you reload? (Revolvers have 5-6, pistols have more, plus you can get extended magazines) 6) Aesthetics: what looks cool? Edit: all that said if you're just looking for a gun to use real quick, and prefer a pistol, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol is a classic. Same kind of questions on the car, though cost and personal taste are going to be the most important. What KIND of flashy? BMW flashy or Chevelle flashy? New? Used? busted? perfectly maintained? pimped? riced? lowered? raised? is he hauling bodies? If so, trunk size matters. Personally, I'd use my old 1995 Toyota Camry if I was trying to clean the streets, because I'd probably be running away a lot and that's a super common car. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Oct 11, 2012 |
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Oct 11, 2012 01:35
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All writing questions and answers: Can I do X? Yes, if it works when you do it. How much X do I need to do? As much X as it takes to work when you do it. Is X a good idea? Yes, if it works when you do it. ----------------------------- Re: Clams In an imaginary world, clams can literally live anywhere, because it's a made-up world. Even if the climate is "Mediterranean" and clams don't really live in the Mediterranean here on earth, clams can live in that climate in your world because it is fake and maybe clams evolved to be adapted to that climate, or to be able to read or ride horses. Maybe clams are actually a huge computer, communicating through binary opened/closed patterns. It doesn't matter because it's a goddamned made-up world. A lot of people really love world building, and that is great. But it can also be a huge time suck, and a distraction from the hard work of actually writing your story. While a detailed world can enhance a good story, it isn't itself a good story. Don't slack on the story in the name of world building. As long as it's fairly internally consistent, you're good to go (gently caress that one reader who triangulates mountains or whatever.) ----------------------------- Confession: I just roughed out my Thunderdome entry and I used "rejoined" as a speech tag 5 times in 900 words.
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Mar 8, 2013 04:45
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systran posted:When writing less than 1,500 word pieces, what are some different ways to go about structuring and then editing? I've done this lots of different ways for Thunderdome. The first one I wrote about 3 rough drafts, basically from scratch, trying to work everything out, then I edited for a couple days. I've also mulled over the story in my mind for the whole week, then written and edited it closer to the deadline. And I've started downing gin and tonics two hours before the deadline and started mashing out crap, too. These methods generally produce material of the quality expected, respectively. I think if you've got a narrative in mind, it can't hurt to write, rewrite, and edit it intensely. I do like literally rewriting from scratch, since it keeps me from getting caught up by the exact wording I used before. I also tend to write really crappy first drafts, with lots of telling, not showing, just to sort out the narrative beats without trying to WRITE. The hardest part for me is usually coming up with a narrative at all. I am terrible at coming up with an actual story (which is why I'm writing this post instead of my Thunderdome entry, ugh!).
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Mar 22, 2013 05:56
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CantDecideOnAName posted:I'm assuming you already know how to ignore the inner editor during the first draft. Just remember that it doesn't have to be perfect on the first try. I'm likely wrong, but I don't really see much difference between nonfiction writing and fiction writing, except that in the latter you get to make things up. They obviously don't know how to ignore that inner editor or they probably wouldn't be paralyzed by anxiety. And Thunderdome, while awesome, amazing, the best, and something every goddamn budding writer who stumbles in here should do until their brain bleeds, isn't a magical cure-all for that anxiety. I've participated in several Thunderdomes, plunked out of two, and still have that fear. That said, the best advice remains: write anyway. Write a lot. Write poo poo. Promise yourself you will write poo poo. Force yourself to write poo poo. Get over yourself and your ideals and let yourself write something no matter how bad it is. Do it again and again. Be brave and subject it to criticism. Accept the criticism (it's okay if you get mad or want to cry for a while--for some reason getting your writing criticized sometimes feels like people are criticizing your very existence, but you get over that with practice.) Learn from the criticism. Then, write again. It might not feel easier than the first time. Promise yourself you will write more poo poo. Force yourself to write more poo poo. Keep writing poo poo; do it again and again.
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Apr 4, 2013 06:22
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Alright, I made a big high-effort post in Mind Loving Owl's thread, but I figure we can all use it, so here it is: The Set Up: Mind Loving Owl posted:So Thoras is doing a really good job, but I need some advice. When is a good time to slip in physical descriptions? Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Only when it's necessary. Mind Loving Owl posted:What I figured was that main characters should get a description at some point since the reader could use a face to attach to the central focuses of the story, My advice: There's definitely room for disagreement on this point, but I find a lot of physical description to be distracting and unnecessary. I don't need a portrait to connect with a character. Honestly, I don't have strong physical images in my head for many of my favorite characters, because it really isn't necessary. Do you? Think of a few of your favorite characters and write down what they look like. Do you end up with more than a few sentences? Plenty of description is actually relevant (muscularity, deformities, identifying features, costume, species/race/ethnicity, to name just a few), and should be easy to include in the context of the story. When you find yourself trying to "slip in" additional details, you're probably adding unnecessary fluff. Aquiline noses? generally irrelevant and forgettable. Ditto eye-color, unless eye-color denotes certain ancestry or abilities. A sketch of the important facts is more effective than a paragraph describing cleft chins or creamy skin. Always strive to add physical details as they would naturally be observed by the characters in your story. A soldier would take in the build, stance, and attitude of a challenger. An elf would notice the rare human visitor. A man might be captivated by the creamy skin and vibrant violet eyes of a particularly captivating woman (or man, depending). Take lessons from the masters: pull out your favorite books and look for physical descriptions. Consider how they handled it and how well it worked. You might be surprised at how clumsily it's handled, even by experienced writers (looking in a mirror, oh lord). And My Examples: Okay, I've pulled some off my shelf, because this a good exercise for everyone! Only looking at the first chapter: William Gibson, All Tomorrow's Parties Apparent Main Character: no physical description, but.... ...Shinya Yamazaki, his notebook clasped beneath his arm like the egg case of some modest but moderately successful marine species...Yamazaki blinks, making his new contact lenses swim uncomfortably. and An old man: "Come in," says the old man, in Japanese. "Don't leave your rear end hanging out that way." He is naked except for a sort of breech clout twisted from what may once have been a red T-shirt. He is seated, cross-legged, on a ragged, paint-flecked tatami mat. He holds a brightly colored toy figure in one hand, a slender brush in the other. Yamazaki sees that the thing is a model of some kind, a robot or military exoskeleton. It glitters in the sun-bright light, blue and red and silver. Small tools are spread on the tatmi: a razor knife, a sprue cutter, curls of emery paper. The old man is very thin, clean-shaven but in need of a haircut. Wisps of gray hair hang on either side of his face, and his mouth is set in what looks to be a permanent scowl of disapproval. He wears glasses with heavy black plastic frames and archaically thick lenses. The lenses catch the light. A sick friend: What seems to be a crumpled sleeping bag....The American groans. Seems to turn, or sit up. Yamazaki can't see. Something covers Laney's eyes. Red wink of a diode. Cables. Faint gleam of the interface, reflected in a thin line against Laney's sweat-slick cheekbone....Laney draws a ragged breath...."No." Laney says and coughs into his pale and upraised hand....Laney reaches up and removes the bulky, old-fashioned eyephones. Yamazaki cannot see what outputs to them, but the shifting light from the display reveals Laney's hollowed eyes....Laney shakes his head. The cables on the eyephones move in the dark like snakes....Laney nods thoughtfully, the eyephones bobbing mantis-like in the dark. So here, we get the most detailed physical description of what is likely to be the least-important character. Why? Because his description doubles as a description for the new world that Yamazaki is entering when he visits his friend Laney in a slum. Notice the emphasis on vision and eyewear. The first chapter also discusses social invisibility and whether or not someone is looking for Laney. It all ties together. No physical description is given of Yamazaki or Laney, but you don't need it to feel them as characters. Stephen King, The Gunsligner The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed. ....He passed the miles stolidly, not hurrying, not loafing. A hide waterbag was slung around his middle like a bloated sausage. It was almost full.... Below the waterbag were were his guns, carefully weighted to his hands; a plate had been added to each when they had come to him from his father, who had been lighter and not so tall. The two belts crisscrossed above his crotch. The holsters were oiled too deeply for even this Philistine sun to crack. The stocks of the guns were sandalwood, yellow and finely grained. Rawhide tie-downs held the holsters loosely to his thighs , and they swung a bit with his step; they had rubbed away the bluing of his jeans (and thinned the cloth) in a pair of arcs that looked almost like smiles. the brass casings of the cartridges looped into the gunbelts heliographed in the sun. There were fewer now. The leather made subtle creaking noises. His shirt, the no-color of rain or dust, was open at the throat with a rawhide thong dangling losely in hand-punched eyelets. His hat was gone. So was the horn he had once carried; gone for years, that horn, spilled from the hand of a dying friend, and he missed them both. The man in black is nothing but that. The main character is also described primarily by what he wears and carries. That is who he is. His physical features matter far less than his guns: inherited, well-made, well-maintained. This information tells you far more about the character than the color of his hair or the shape of his nose. James M. Cain, Mildred Pierce Yet, although it was a hot afternoon, he took his time about it, and was conscientiously thorough, and whistled. He was a smallish man, in his middle thirties, but in spite of the stains on his trousers, he wore them with an air. His name was Herbert Pierce.... After combing his hair, he dressed. Slacks hadn't made their appearance then, but grey flannels had: he put on a fresh pair, with polo shirt and blue lounge coat.Then he strolled back to the kitchen, a counterpart of the bathroom, where his wife was icing a cake. She was a small woman, considerably younger than himself; but as there was a smear of chocolate on her face, and she wore a loose green smock, it was hard to tell what she looked like, except for a pair of rather voluptuous legs that showed between smock and shoes.... ....there was a rap on the screen door, and Mrs. Gessler, who lived next door, came in. She was a thin, dark woman of forty or so, with lines on her face that might have come from care, and might have come from liquor. Again, not much in the way of physical descriptions. But look at how much each description tells us about the character. Do you really need to know more about Herbert Pierce than him combing his hair and putting on fresh pants and a blue lounge coat before leaving to see another woman? Would knowing that Mrs. Gessler had a few grey hairs add to those lines, that might be from care and might be from liquor? Then he gives you this: The child who now entered the kitchen didn't scamper in, as little Ray had a short time before. She stepped in primly, sniffed contemptuously at the scent left by Mrs. Gessler, and put her schoolbooks on the table before she kissed her mother. Though she was only eleven she was something to look at twice. In the jaunty way she wore her clothes, as well as the handsome look around the upper part of her face, she resembled her father more than her mother: it was commonly said that "Veda's a Pierce." But around her mouth the resemblance vanished, for Bert's mouth had a slanting weakness that hers didn't have. Her hair, which was a coppery red, and her eyes, which were light blue like her mother's, were all the more vivd by contrast with the scramble of freckles and sunburn which formed her complexion. But the most arresting thing about her was her walk. Possibly because of her high, arching chest, possibly because of the slim hips and legs below it, she moved with an erect, arrogant haughtiness that seemed comic in one so young. Hooooly poo poo. This passage is the most physical description we've seen since the old japanese dude. But see how nearly everything does double duty? Now we know about her dad's weak mouth and her mom's blue eyes. And all of these things are relevant to her character. We don't need a laundry list of hair/eye/skin color for every character. But for Veda it matters, so we get it, and Cain makes the most of it. The more subtle details are still the most important: the sniff is more important than the freckles, the erect, arrogant walk more important than her hair. Editing to add: think about Shakespeare, and how amazingly memorable and vivid his stories and characters are. Not a drop of physical description. Also, I know we throw out the "read a lot" advice all the time, but reading for a purpose like this is totally different. I read a lot and mostly hope to learn by vague osmosis. That works alright, but this is the first time I've really followed my own advice about specifically examining how multiple authors handle a given writing challenge, and lord, my mind is reeling. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Apr 26, 2013 |
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Apr 26, 2013 10:29
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magnificent7 posted:Oh. This was for rill? I didn't do it! I have failed. You have plenty of time. Get off the forums and write a thing, UGH.
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May 3, 2013 05:27
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magnificent7 posted:Augh goddammit. You could eliminate "he" referring to two people with a little rephrasing: He hit the ground, and the driver jumped out and ran over to him but there was nothing to be done, the bum was coughing blood out onto the asphalt. The bigger problem is that you've got 4 sentences run together in a single sentence, with two ands, a but, and a missing semi-colon. There's also nothing about this particular bit of narration that says redneck, southern, or simpleton to me. It's clear enough what's happening, sure, but it's nothing beyond a bland series of events.
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Jun 15, 2013 03:25
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magnificent7 posted:Thanks for this. The whole story revolves around his interaction with deaths, and that's where I'm torn; put him into the event, or remove him from it so the event itself has more impact. When I take the second more powerful approach, the shift in dialect is jarring - it pulls me out of the narration and puts attention on the writer, does that make sense? But I know I can push the description better. Why do you think that backing the character away from the action gives the action more impact? That is...backwards. Readers experience the story through the characters: when the character is in the action, the reader is in the action. When the character is distant, the reader is distant. quote:This bum - he's got layers of coats and hair and beard, arms and legs flapping in the air. See, this is a fine visual image that you have, but it is not conveyed, not even remotely, by the phrase "like a wet towel." Why? Well, wet towels don't have layers of coats and hair and beard, arms and legs flapping in the air. They are fairly solid and limp, really, if the reader bothers to imagine one. Honestly "flying through the air like a wet towel" isn't really a phrase that conjures any strong image in my mind, and I pass over it as just an overwrought simile. Be careful with similes and metaphors. They are exciting rhetorical devices, and we can feel rather clever about them as writers, but you have to make extra sure that they do the job: communicating with the reader. Sometimes (often) straightforward description is the better option.
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Jun 15, 2013 18:33
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systran posted:Do the people doing this Sanderson lecture want to form a writing group rather than risk random people? I'd prefer to have a group with people I know from Thunderdome who have proven themselves as good at giving critique (everyone I know of who is participating falls into this category). Yes, this would be sweet. I am pretty unimpressed with the submissions/critique part of the Write About Dragons website. Maybe we can have the whole group sharing google docs and smaller groups for skyping, based on time zones?
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Jul 8, 2013 19:49
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Honestly, if you can't think of any characters who are both smart and physically skilled, you really need to read more.
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Jul 21, 2013 01:27
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In some courts, arraignments may be open to the public. Call the courthouse, say you need to see one for a writing project, and ask 1) if they are open to the public, 2) which court would be good to sit in on, 3) when they occur. Of course if you work 9-5 and can't leave for an hour, you might be out of luck.
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Jul 29, 2013 23:40
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Orson Scott Card had great success turning the original novella of Ender's Game into a novel.
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Aug 2, 2013 06:31
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The Hunger Games is told in first-person present, so there are obviously plenty of people who don't mind it. I don't even remember noticing it when I read it. Personally, I find writing in past tense to be a lot easier, though I tend to think of my past tense as "a second ago," not from the end of the story. I haven't tried switching to present, but I've found switching between first and third helpful.
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Oct 30, 2013 06:32
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TheRamblingSoul posted:As a budding copywriter and fiction writer, I feel somewhat like a fish out of water as a former International Studies major/careerist in college when it seems like everyone else is an English major and talk to each other as such. I'm sure there a lot more people out there who don't fit the typical mold like me, but it does feel strange. Actually almost no one who posts about fiction writing on these forums is/was an English Major. I have no idea what you mean by people "talking to each other as such." Self-study for writers consists mostly of reading books, thinking about books, and writing. Getting criticisms helps, too. There are lots off how-to write books mentioned in this thread, so I'll throw out a couple on how to read: Thomas C. Foster has a couple books on how to read like a professor. These cover looking for themes and references (i.e. Most trips are quests, eating is communion, how to spot a Christ allegory, etc.). I've got How To Read Literature Like A Professor, and it's interesting, but a little bit dry, much like most of the lit classes I took in college. Reading Like a Writer, by Francine Prose, focuses more on different parts of writing, with chapters on dialogue, paragraph structure, and diction. It was also a tad easier for me to get into. I believe both of these books come with a recommended reading list, and one will rarely suffer by reading the classics. However, it's also important to read the kinds of books you want to write. If you want to write paranormal romance, you should strongly consider sitting down with the Twilight series for a slow, in depth read. (Sounds fun, right ?) Sure it might not be as richly textured as Dickens, as intellectual as Nabokov, or as gracefully spare as Hemingway, but if it's a stand out success in your preferred genre, it deserves some serious consideration as to why it works. Then, write write write! Most English classes actually teach you to write about other people's fiction, not how to write your own. To improve as a fiction writer, you MUST write fiction. That doesn't include thinking about writing, talking about writing, or even outlining/character descriptions/research for writing--although all those things have their place. You need to sit down and write actual scenes--preferably actual stories! Seeking out criticism can be scary, especially at first, but it is extremely helpful. An objective set of eyes on your work will find all kinds of mistakes, weaknesses, and inconsistencies. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Best-selling authors have editors (and fawn all over them in Acknowledgements) for a reason. Get out there, make mistakes, and be willing to learn from them. If you are struggling with grammar and parts of speech, Strunk & White is the classic go-to, though it is too prescriptive in my opinion. Eats, Shoots & Leaves is another good grammar book with a sense of humor. Edit: you can also check out free online classes on websites like Coursera. The offerings for writing look extremely basic and are not focused on creative writing, but if you would like semi-formal instruction on how to put sentences and paragraphs together, they might help you. Coursera also offers a smattering of "literature" classes, for example there is one right now on historical fiction. There have been past classes on relationships in fiction and sci-fi/fantasy. These classes typically focus on reading in the genre, not writing. Thus, the historical fiction class covers "what is historical fiction," the history of historical fiction, and includes readings and discussions with current historical fiction authors. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Nov 9, 2013 |
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Nov 8, 2013 23:31
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TheRamblingSoul posted:
I'm not sure if you are asking a technical question about punctuation or a broader question about how to split paragraphs in a monologue so they flow. For punctuation questions, learning how to look bothersome little questions up is a skill worth developing, though it does require learning the correct vocabulary. There are plenty of decent punctuation guides in print and free online. It does take some practice--a quick google search for 'punctuation quotation marks' turns up guidelines for non-fiction writing, not dialogue. The first result for 'punctuation dialogue' answers the question of how to punctuate multiple paragraphs of dialogue from a single character with no dialogue tag: each paragraph begins with an open quote, but only the final paragraph ends with a close quote. If you are asking more generally about where the paragraph breaks should go for readability, clarity, and flow... There's no set abstract answer that someone can explain to you. You really need to walk over to your bookshelf and start pulling out books you like--I'd say look for one in first person since you seem to be struggling with that a bit--read it and see how the author handles these situations. Then repeat because different authors will handle it differently!
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Nov 12, 2013 22:02
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McSlaughter posted:I just have a quick question about extended dialogue. Let's say I have a character who is explaining something, but requires more than just a few lines of dialogue. This exact question was asked and answered just one page ago in this very thread. Dr. Kloctopussy posted:I'm not sure if you are asking a technical question about punctuation or a broader question about how to split paragraphs in a monologue so they flow. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Nov 24, 2013 |
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Nov 24, 2013 03:37
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ravenkult posted:I wanna try TD but I'm decidedly a genre writer. Will I be stomped? Tons of stories in TD are genre. I've entered 17 times and all but two of mine were genre.
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Nov 25, 2013 22:40
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crabrock posted:Stuporstar is like the dad who "goes out for cigarettes" when you're 7 and then shows up on your front porch when you're 19 to complain that you don't go to church anymore. But also you have been going to church the entire time. I really don't know where the idea that Thunderdome has become some kind of hugbox is coming from. I don't see anyone pulling punches in there.
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Nov 25, 2013 22:57
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Stuporstar posted:The idea is coming from all these people yelling, "gently caress you, grandpa!" because I dared to give someone advice--that actually helped them--but I gave the advice in an aggressive way (in the manner of the old TD kayfabe), so apparently I'm a big meanie poopie head, or some poo poo. So fine, I'm a big meany poopie head. You don't want my advice anymore, I won't give it. Do whatever the gently caress you all want. But the only person who questioned why you were giving advice is a random guy who has posted in Thunderdome like once. Everyone else agreed that a huge swath of dialogue wasn't a great idea, but that he could still try it if he wanted to. And if he did and it sucked he would get called out on it. Sebmojo even agreed to the flash rule you suggested. No one said you're a big meanie poopie head at all. No one said stop giving advice, either, but do whatever the gently caress you want.
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Nov 25, 2013 23:52
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General Battuta posted:If you're looking at genre short stories, I'd actually suggest turning an eye to more modern writers. There's been a remarkable eruption of good short fiction in the field in the past ten/twenty years. I'm not immediately coming up with any authors that fit the themes you're after (this aimed at RamblingSoul) but I'm confident they exist. I can think of three reliable ways to find decent, modern, sci-fi and horror short fiction. There will likely be some overlap between the stories you find using these methods--and those might be the best ones to check out? 1) Annual awards. For sci-fi, Hugo and Nebula are the big ones. Bram Stoker for horror. There are tons more, google can help you find them if you aren't finding enough in the history of these three. Many also publish a list of nominees, which will give you more options to look at than just the winner. 2) Best-of anthologies. There are several annual best-of anthologies, such as The Year's Best Science Fiction. Goodreads and google are good places to start looking for anthologies that appeal to you. I don't know of any that are considered "the best," so just look around. 3) Magazines. This is where the stories from the above to categories are originally published (usually). So they will have more stories, but also a wider range of quality. On the other hand, many of the magazines have a certain "feel," and if you find one that especially appeals to you, it might be consistently "better" in your opinion than award-winners or the ones picked for anthologies. A pretty good place to start, at least for Sci-fi/fantasy, is with the list of Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America Qualifying Markets list, which can be found here: http://www.sfwa.org/about/join-us/sfwa-membership-requirements/#shortfiction Many of these magazines have a selection of stories available for free online, so you can sample them without committing to a subscription.
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Nov 29, 2013 23:56
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TheRamblingSoul posted:I'm reading through Slaugterhouse-Five and enjoying it so far, but it does bring something to mind: Salinger is famous for being a recluse, and plenty of people think he told good stories, so it's not an absolute requirement. (I'm sure there are plenty of other examples, too, Salinger is just the first to come to my mind.) When you write, you are removed from the social aspect. No one is sitting next you and responding to what you say. You are probably not telling mundane stories of your life. On the other hand, think about why don't you like telling stories in person. The feeling that real stories are mundane is more likely to hurt your writing than social awkwardness. Stories are about people and are read by people. As a writer, you have to at least be interested in people, even if you don't particularly like them. You have to be willing to understand them, see what makes them tick, imagine and manipulate their emotions. There are huge differences between doing that socially and doing that through writing, of course, but many of the root concepts are the same.
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Dec 5, 2013 22:46
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TheRamblingSoul posted:Are there other ways to be a storyteller apart from writing novels/novellas? I keep turning it around in my head, but I think I really want to be a visual story teller (eg movies, video games, etc.) most of all. Even then, doesn't that still involve writing to some degree (ie screenwriting)? Don't get me wrong, I still love writing out fiction and non-fiction, but I think my ideal outlet would be a visual medium. Most movies and games are huge, collaborative efforts, and there are many ways to get involved. This thread is probably not the best place to find out how, though, since it is explicitly focused on fiction writing. For more independent visual mediums, animation and comics both come to mind, though those can certainly be collaborative as well. There are mega-threads in this forum for screenwriting, comics/graphic novels, animation, 3d animation, videography, and photography. I'm not going to go look for the links because I'm on my phone, but they are all probably on the first or second page of the forum and tend to be fairly active.
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Dec 18, 2013 22:42
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