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Edit: Fountain of Youth theory makes the most sense.
Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Jul 19, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2013 19:14
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Cask 2TotalHell posted:Noticed something as I was browsing pictures from White Point Gardens: Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended It was March of 1913 when Woodrow Wilson succeeded Taft. I don't have an answer for why May is used other than to make reference to President Woody. Edwin (father) and Edwina (daughter named after her father) is about succession as well, since the name is being passed on down the line. Or on the eighth a scene is about the 8th State's secession (not the same as succession, but it sounds the same) from the Union, which prompted the Union soldiers to fortify their position at Sumter, this may be "where law defended"..at least for awhile. I think there's an important reason behind making so many references to succession. These lines are all tied together for the purpose of revealing a particular person's name. I believe it's the name of the successor of Abraham Lincoln, closest at hand to the White House, the Vice President Andrew Johnson. If I'm right, that clue leads us to a set of lighthouses on Cape Romain's Lighthouse Island. Lat 33 / Long 79. There's a famous story about some treasure being buried on the island by the woman who was murdered by her husband, the Lighthouse Keeper Andrew Johnson. I think Preiss used words from the intro of Treasure Island as a way of leading to this conclusion. I think the daisy in the image might be the shape of the top of the old lighthouse as seen while standing at the taller lighthouse nearby. 
Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 05:33
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Cask 8 Dr. Gitmo Moneyson, I PM'd you some of my thoughts on this. I've been most compelled by this photograph I was lucky to find:  Here we're looking at the Atropos Key statue with the Miller Outdoor Theater in the background. Look closely at the face of the statue to see the diamond shape that's cut out and in the center of it you see the apex tip of the theater building. Both of these features are relatable to the poem lines: In the center of four alike = a diamond shape (the four sided 2D kind) has four sides of equal length No lion fears = No fear of apex predator = apex (no predator) Draw a line through these points to locate the spot on the ground near where this photo was taken to find the cask. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 19:17
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Cask 2TotalHell posted:Completely agreed. Below the bar that binds seems super important to pinpointing the location, and we're all having real difficulty accounting for it. It's just so darn vague, and yet nothing quite matching it fits most of the spots we're looking at. My take is the line describes a water cistern, one of two rusty metal drum barrels next to the 1827 Cape Romain lighthouse. Below the bar that binds Where do you go to have a drink? A bar. Bind and hold have similar definitions. The cistern is designed as a hold for water. Sure it seems like crazy logic, but then I didn't personally know Preiss...how crazy was he? Definitely borderline.
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Jun 17, 2013 20:39
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einTier posted:Probably the Onion domed building that's evident in the image that's believed to belong to NYC. These aren't common in US architecture, so it should be easy to find. Still, I've been unable to find a building anywhere in the US that matches that outline. I speculated that, the film came out in June '81. Given the time it generally takes to put something through publication it's cutting it close given the book hit the shelves after November '82. I believe it's very possible Preiss put some sort of playful current events logic into some of his location designs. I understand the hill was modified on the theater side slope to increase steepness. I know the statue was taken down to be restored but whether the base was removed and reinstalled on an altered surface I don't know. If the soil has been reworked where the cask is proposed to sit, then it might have survived if buried deep enough. It could be deeper if more soil was added. At the very least it will still be along the same line, we would just be needing to make an adjustment for distance accounting for any changes in reference heights. I say, probe the heck out of the area with a pole/cable drill bit (cleverly hidden in a picnic basket). Then we'll have something to go on when we ask for permission.
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Jun 17, 2013 20:51
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Cask 9 I have minor criticism of the logic outlined in the rules of the thread where it has examples of good logic and bad logic. I agree with good logic, it worked to find good visual matches and then to sort out the details of the verse when it came to either Cleveland or Chicago. I tend to be sleep deprived so when I think I'm using good logic, it's actually bad logic. I think there's a need to evolve our good logic to include even better logic. So far, I've seen a lot of healthy searching for visual matches. The prevailing assumption is "find a visual fit, now look around for the casque". The flaw in that is that we don't know how far of a search radius that might be and we assume a dumbed down version of the process. In Cleveland the Terminal Tower fit was miles away from the casque site. In Chicago, the historic water tower was also miles up the road and then several visual matches fit a 2 or 3 block radius. I wish it was easy after finding one visual match, but I don't think that's the case. In fact, we've moved away from the easy match a 95% drawn wall or column and an actual full-sized wall and column to a a partial visual fit with a lamp only to be fully invested in the "look around nearby" tactic. I think we're underestimating the hunt for fear of walking too close to the edge of bad logic, but all we need to do is start asking the right questions. Why a lamp leg? Why THAT lamp in particular? I pursue the question with as few assumptions as possible. The dumbed down method carries the assumption that we are essentially looking for random objects along a path or in an area. No evidence to support any other tactics becomes the basis for the falacy that stumps our progress, which after 31 years should be sinking in. When I look at the lamp leg associated with image 9, and consider nobody has found such a good fit elsewhere in all this time, I want to agree that the site of the Mount Stephen Club is a good fit. Lord Mount Stephen headed the creation of the Canadian Pacific Railway. I think it's natural to consider that the leg of this man's lamp isn't just a random object in an area, but a reason to consider his crowning achievement. The following almost becomes what we are familiar with in Houston's Hermann Park. I discovered that upon completion of the CPRail, the first train to make the journey from Montreal to Vancouver BC was the No.374. In Vancouver's Stanley Park, there's an active miniature train labled No.374. I began researching the Stanley Park area and learned about it's famous story about a Cougar in 1911. I learned about a Native poet named Pauline Johnson who has the only memorial and grave on the entire island. P.J. wrote a poem titled "In the Shadows". The runes looking shapes on the X-square in image 9 look like they could be the letters P and J, only the J is inverted. Same goes for the Latitude number as it could be a 4 sharing the same downstroke with an inverted 9. Vancouver is latitude 49.  I know this has bad logic written all over it, but it keeps getting better. This large art piece called the Gateway to the Northwest Passage looks north at Stanley Park,  Significant rock formation with interpretive plaque about a Native Indian legend, Siwash Rock, 
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Jun 18, 2013 00:13
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Nesetril posted:Pros: there is an opal connection. Cons: there is nowhere to dig around the rock (joke). Which verse are you claiming? Verse 10: In the shadow
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Jun 18, 2013 00:30
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Yes, I have lots of colorful ideas litterin Q4T. I don't intend to cross post all of it either. I'm trying to say new things whenever I post. I'll post anything here that I think is worth posting. People can shift their attentions as they will, criticism and PM's welcome. Here's some of my thoughts on Boston with a focus on Baseball. For the Charlesgate location, I think I've figured out the idea behind "face the water / your back to to the stairs". I think we've allowed ourselves the inclination to think our heads must always face the opposite direction of our backs. Suppose you're a right handed baseball player at bat. Standing north of the circular depression at Charlegate with a few steps of stairs and just between the globe light and the small rectangular cement pad where once stood a metal walled box, face north so you're back is to the stairs but then turn you're head west towards the CITGO sign like a baseball player watching for the incoming pitch. You're now facing the water as well. 
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Jun 18, 2013 02:41
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LargeHadron, it's a rotation on a pattern of cracks to the right of the illustration's stone ring. I thought the two edges of line matched the sidewalk and then a line stemming off from the center connects to what looks like a sideway's T, so I turned it to show it might represent the T of the fence at that spot. The baseball pasted over the globe was for a left-handed hitter...but it's not really important. The perch for the bird looks more like the T.
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Jun 18, 2013 03:03
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Cask 10 The latest discovery that intrigues me for Milwaukee reported by Deuce at Q4T involves taking a mason's compass and literally placing it on a city map with the center fixed at City Hall (indicated by match in illustration) then set the pencil to Mitchell Hall and pass the arc to see it follow through several points of interest. I see it passes through St. Josaphat and Kosciuszko. St. Josaphats uses a significant amount of copper. Kosciuszko is a 1-star general. Given there are a max possible 5-stars in that rank, would that make him a proud tall fifth sitting on his horse? Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 14:03
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Cask 11 Nesetril posted:That could be valuable in so far as thinking about the problem creatively, or out of the (Pandora's? The verse is what invoked baseball for me. The line "feel at home" landed in my mind the image of standing at bat at home plate. The shapes on her sleeve cuff looked like a lower leg running past a plate. I eventually thought of a Greek-baseball relation in answer to why start the verse with Greek writers names Thucydides and Xenophon: Homer = home run. The locals at Fenway have an iconic phrase "see it go!" when a homer is hit. The phrase comes from the play on the letters of CITGO. I'm not ready to dismiss the baseball idea yet. It seems good to avoid plain baseball visual references, this is a challenging puzzle. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 15:21
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) box, but it introduces unnecessary complications. The image doesn't really invoke baseball, or any kind of sport. Why require warping the patterns in the image, when the patterns could just match directly to the cracks in the pavement, or whatever? It's not like that kind of clue gives away the answer. You still have to be right there to see it.
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I read that wonderstone is pyrophyllite, Greek for fire and leaf.
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Jun 18, 2013 16:17
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I'm motivated by Greek related factors in general, rhyolite is greek for "stream of lava but I don't see that its similar to pyrophyllite "of fire and leaf" as far as a physical comparison. Dont want to get too technical. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrophyllite mentions the connection to "wonderstone". I don't know how reliable that is but I'm willing to make a stop at the geology department to learn more when I visit the University. I'll get back with that info.
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Jun 18, 2013 18:04
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Cask 10 Milwaukee The area of the Kosciuszko monument, 
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Jun 18, 2013 22:46
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lolcat lady posted:It would be very weird to have a clue to a Polish themed park, if it should be German theme...just saying. I don't believe we have to adhere to a strict cultural constraint in these puzzles. Milwaukee is certainly more German than any other of the proposed locations. I'm not proposing Kosciuszko because I think the puzzle is Polish-centric. I'm not concerned with trying to justify the Polish element at all. All I care about is finding answers. At this point, if it's in the Lat/Long range of Milwaukee, then it's fair game. Kosciuszko connects to serveral lines, He is well educated: A man of letters He's from a rural village: the country He has 1 of 5 stars in the rank of General = 1/5 or a fifth His rank and decoration might be what makes him proud. He sits on a horse, making him tall. He is bronze, which is a copper alloy, as the green patina corrosion suggests. He is the same distance from City Hall as Mitchell Hall according to the compass used to draw an arc circle.
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Jun 18, 2013 23:44
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LargeHadron posted:I don't think you needed someone else to tell you that there is no similarity between the portion of the illustration you highlighted and the monument. But then again, maybe I'm just not seeing what you're trying to point out. Can you explain what similarity you are seeing? It's a lot more helpful to have a verbal explanation alongside pictures. Of course, I have three layers selected. On top is the upside down shape of the woman's collar area. Next is a historic aerial from 1995 that shows the distinct curve of the path around the monument, forming a slightly skewed semicircle. Below is a more current color birdseye view, but the tree foiliage obscures the path. My yellow box is to show that the position of the monument and adjoined paths form a section of what looks like a repeated pattern on the collar. No, it's not exact, but it's what I think of as a similarity.
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Jun 18, 2013 23:52
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Morally Inept posted:From reading Urban Smurf's contributions I can only say that he seems to just throw ideas out like a machine gun and hope that something sticks. Nothing that he has posted even remotely looks like he wants it to look like. I am responding to questions. I'm guilty of throwing out lots of ideas. Wouldn't you hope you're ideas stick at some point. Hopefully you will ignore my posts in the future so you can avoid posting content with no real value. The purpose of this forum is to solve a goddamn frustrating puzzle, unless I'm mistaken. I want to say I appreciate the opportunity to reboot some of my theories here. I am diligent, I care to have a sense of connectedness in my ideas before I yield to the idea that this hunt is merely random objects in a general area. Moving on, I really liked this visual assessment that wasn't covered during Egbert's success in Cleveland, Notice the use of reversal and rotation on an actual map segment, implying a tracing of a city or park map. It may be helpful to look for that tactic in other images, which is what I've just done in my comparison to the pathway around Kosciuszko, 
Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 00:33
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Neutrino, that's a great connection to the harpsichord line. It's a creative visual twist and a piece of architecture. I don't agree that it's a matter of being stronger than the Marietta street name reference, it's just a different approach and one that's definately worth keeping in mind. Whichever way you go with it, there should be a swift process to the next clue. Which direction are you coming from to see that "woman with harpsichord"? Btw, she doesn't have any hands, maybe that's why she's silent.
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Jun 19, 2013 01:32
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Guuse posted:A few people in Montreal-chat noted a resemblance between the picture and one of the statues in the park we were looking at. In that case though it was more like a caricature -- emphasizing his huge nose and wild hair to the sides. And I feel like I should know the face in the presumed New York picture, but I just can't place it. So it's entirely possible that there's something to the resemblance that you're seeing. It reminds me of Mad Magazine's coverboy, Alfred E. Neuman, with his big nose and silly face. That gives me the idea there could be a "fold-in" hidden in the image. Remember those visual puzzles in the back inside cover of the mag?
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Jun 19, 2013 02:05
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Cask 9 I think it's fair to discern what manner of creature is eating the leg of the lamp, is it a cougar? 
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Jun 19, 2013 03:42
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LargeHadron posted:Yeah...I was trying to be more polite about saying that. There are a few people in this thread that I feel the same way about. I don't think the shotgun approach is the best way to go about this. It really clogs up the thread and takes attention away from ideas that are worth spending time on. Not directing this at you specifically, LargeHadron, respectfully, I've put a lot of time and effort in the ideas I've shared so far. Any real criticism is welcome. Does stating that my posts don't resemble what I say they represent the attitude of someone who is invested in the value of their time when they themselves haven't properly investigated? You are welcome to post or PM a sincere and well thought out response. Elaborate on what specifically doesn't fit. I don't care if you've worked on this for years or only five minutes, if you've got gumption, you might be the one to figure out what ideas really are worth spending time on. Many of us have spent a lot of time on worthless hopeful ideas. There's much to be discovered. If something really doesn't fit, it shouldn't be too hard to say why and quickly dismiss it. If you're not seeing what I'm seeing, then look harder, ask a clarifying question, or be dismissive and go suck it. In my first post to these boards, after first checking with Fistgrrl ('scuse the namedrop), because I didn't want to post anything that would derail the thread, I respectfully posted the image 6 with verse 5 theory (see near the end of Page 51) knowing that it would upset the faction of cask seekers in FOY. Honestly, I don't post my own speculations just to rile folks. I think it's a comprehensive theory and it hasn't been debunked in any real or considered way whatsoever. It isn't good enough to simply dismiss it by saying "well, any rock could look like that" or "that's wrong, it's FOY". Check the Cleveland discussions, people are still talking about whether the columns are exact or just a bit different. Let's get real about this here. Use you're time to work and grind in the direction you think this deserves, but know that you might ultimately be wrong and have wasted a lot of you're self-important time. Don't take this as a rant, take it as a reality check, and have my sincerest interest to be critical and open to this challenge. There's been real work and lots of time and money put into searching FOY. Everyone seems so certain of all the random pieces of their puzzle. I agree that much fits where it fits, but only there in each spot with no strong continuity to the next spot. I suppose I should devote some time criticizing the FOY theory as I unfold my own alternative contribution. I'll be giving it some thought. So just to summarize my position: Image 6 with Verse 5 fits Oregon not Florida, Verse 9 fits San Juan Island's American Camp where Captain Pickett set up to defend some farmers from the British (use the entire acrostic -float four lines to get TONWWASAYSSELBY, much better than ignore 10 lines to get
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Jun 19, 2013 05:01
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Cask 12 with verse 9 Line 1: The first chapter  There is a huge rock (technically a glacial erratic) with a plaque on it in the middle of a field near the top of a grassland prairie. It's remote and leaves few options else to consider. It's called Robert's Rock, in honor of the man who established a guide to parliamentary procedure, Robert's Rules of Order. The plaque is dedicated by the Daughters of the American Revolution. After doing some digging, I discovered the fact that Washington State is the origin of the first chapter of the DotAR. Sure, it isn't some simple words at the entrance to FOY, but it is a fact found alternative. The acrostic, float four lines, you get TONWWASAYSSELBY, which is nearly plain as a message parsed "TO NW WA SAYS SELBY" or "To northwest Washington," says Selby. From the historical pamphlet promoting a self-guided walking tour (currently available and was no different back in 1980) at the American Camp on San Juan Island:  Look here for a quote from a tourism pamphlet that equates to Selby (William S. Harney's middle name) telling Pickett to go to northwest Washington.   Take a look at this entrance gate of the fence that Pickett's men (Army soldiers = Green) built around the camp:  Take a look at this nearby lighthouse which uses radio beacon as an alterative to guide ships in total darkness due to fog:  I'll have more to post on this later, and this is no ploy to distract. Edit: notice the large drop cap numbers in my pics from the self-guided walking tour. Number 11 in that pamphlet serves to indicate the large flagpole inside the parade grounds of the American Camp. The time on the clock panel of the illustration could be an indication to find this marker number 11. A flagpole is a good object for setting up a point of reference for locating a specific spot. The flag itself is a good candidate for the verse line "stars move by day" as the flag flutters in the wind. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 05:30
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OperaMouse posted:I appreciate your contributions, but I think you focus too much on trying to match simple shapes like lines, squares and semi-circles. As mentioned in the guidelines, there are thousands, if not millions of those in any city. How can you think that after I've given a verse based reasoning, pointed out a number of objects that exist in a sparse environment giving relatively no other options to consider and yet there are very concrete and fact found visuals needing no effort to manipulate using mspaint. Did you're brain melt and then regenerate a NY accent? Yes, there's more to be figured out, but I'm clearly not going to engage in a discussion about NY. Great place to party though.
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Jun 19, 2013 06:42
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Cask 2 Verse 6 Cape Romaine near Charleston, SC Line 1: Of all the romance retold First lines narrow things down, but only a little, but they make more sense when things start to gel with the other lines and the image. We know this is a good reference to the book Treasure Island. The purpose of the line is to guide our attention to an island; from the lat and long we know it will be in the vicinity of Charleston. I think there's more to the line and we shouldn't understimate and null any possibility it might offer. I return to the simple question, why these five words? Of...all the romance...retold... Taking things out on a limb, I consider that romance could be worked into a theme about bird mating. When a bird performs it's ritual mating call, a return call is made by the prospective mate. If we knew for sure that Preiss was an avid bird enthusiast, maybe we'd have a profile reason to consider this interpretation which is exactly and literarly a case of romance being retold. But I don't know Preiss' interests or background much at all so I need good reason to connect this tenuous idea to the verse/image foundation. Are there any bird references? Yes, line 6 of verse 6. The image has a winged woman, but those aren't birds wings and I'm not about to go into the mating rituals of insects or women. Stand and listen to the birds This is also a line about standing and listening. I wonder if standing implies that there is an option to sit or none at all. There are two other lines that make reference to auditory experience. Hear the cool, clear song of water Harken to the words Water, could mean ocean or lake body or river, but it could also mean rain. Cool, could mean temperature, but it could also mean a jazz rhythm. Rain drops falling makes a percussive sound. I'm not going to go looking at connections to Creedence Clearwater Revival... I just think we should identify with the listening to rain idea and understand that it is a percussive quality like that of a drum. I discovered that birds have a variety of means to make their mating calls, one of which is referred to as drumming, which is typical of woodpeckers. I proposed earlier that the "bar that binds" could be a water cistern barrel. A bar is a place to go for a drink. The word bind and hold are similar in meaning. A barrel that holds water might make a clear sound when the rain falls on it, or it might be leaking or dripping from a spout, *plup*...*plup*...*plup*. The picture above is a nice photo of the two lighthouses on the island near Charleston. The older one on the right was built in 1827 and was replaced by the taller one in 1857, it's lamp structure relocated to the new tower. I had this epiphany today about the story of Odysseus where he tricks the giant cyclops Polyphemus by saying his name is "No Man" after blinding him with a tree branch. I thought this older lighthouse was like a cyclops, a giant thing with a single source for it's beaming gaze, but then when it's light structure was removed it became essentialy a blind tower. I like that the proportion of the circular shape of the bar top of the old lighthouse is nearly exact to the daisy center in the illustration if you were to view it from the taller lighthouse and as I imagine hold you're book up in front of you to compare. I feel sure that Preiss had taken a polaroid of that. Anyways, I'm not pulling the Polyphemus reference out of my rear end, the moth wings on the woman fit very closely the patterns on the Polyphemus Moth. The reasoning for why I like the lighthouse connection to begin with utilizes the lion, since both lions and lighthouses may have keepers. I elaborated previously about how there was a famous local story about the Keeper, Andrew Johnson (same name as Abraham Lincoln's successor!) of the Cape Romain lighthouses who murdered his wife. The interesting thing is he wasn't charged with murder. He got off on account of no witnesses and his claim that she commited suicide. He confessed his sins on his deathbed several years later. This small select tale really connects to the line Freedom at the birth of a century if you consider that the very first century, year 1, signifying the "Year of our Lord", his birth and then later in the century with his crucifixion upon which was the result of the first person to experience freedom: Barabbas, the murder who got off free. Andrew Johnson also got off free. Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him I'm still uncertain on what May 1913 could be. I'm leaning towards Edwin Booth and his fraternal twin children Edwin and Edwina as the best way to read the line. Twins are a good way to relate to the twin lighthouses and also a perfect choice in relating Booth's brother John to the incident which brought about Lincoln's successor, Andrew Johnson. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Jul 8, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 08:13
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Nesetril posted:I support your alternative theories and fact-finding 100%. But, can you start with the more essential elements of the puzzle like the onion domes or the "color test"? In my mind, it's totally possible to stumble upon the one correct solution by doing what you are doing, but it will save you a lot of time if you start by finding an exceptionally good match for something important and then working from there. I suppose I've already had a lot of stumblings in this hunt. You just haven't been informed of them. I wish I could show you an exceptionally good match for something so you could be really excited and brain melty about. I'm rocking a different process than others, so if I remain misunderstood because of the presumption that this hunt is designed a specific way, that being to find the exceptional match (which I think is a myth given there's just too much artistic license outside of the Cleveland and Chicago solutions) and then work from there in a dumbed down scavenger hunt mode to find a luckyspot perspective match or whatever manner of location specific clues are at work in that particular case. It's a good approach, it is hopeful and empirical (using what was known to work in Chicago and Cleveland), but I think it becomes limited or obsolete as the next puzzles become more complex and cerebral. I'm doing my best to dish up some main courses. I don't really know how to resolve any of these without being at each given site to make adjustments to my theory, but I think I've worked out some thorough leads based on a backbone theory on how Preiss worked in some Ancient Greekness and carefully chose a first liner that has a further application once it narrows things down a bit. Evidence of this idea comes from my take on the Chicago verse, Line 1: Where M and B are set in stone The phrase "set in stone" is often associated with making an agreement. While the M and B were determined to be Mozart and Beethoven nearby, the casque was found in Grant Park. The word 'grant' may also exist in the context of making an agreement whereby it gives allowance or permission. Like I said before, it takes a lot of inspection and stumbling to get things to gel. BTW, if I do come up with a correct location and someone else gets it before me, well, good for them. I'm not concerned with pettiness. I'd rather make a loud satisfying fart in celebration. If anyone likes what I've serving, it's still going to be a lot of work getting to the dessert. Good luck goons.
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Jun 19, 2013 08:33
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KennyMan666 posted:It began with his birth, not crucifixion. Mannn, thanks for catching that dumb mistake. I won't call nitpicking, anyone should deserve a good kick to the stomach for that. drat, I downed a can of redbull blue about 30 minutes past my bedtime and didn't get to sleep till four hours later. If people want to get this hunt solved in 30 days, I recommend they experiment with that beverage. CronoGamer posted:I think you've been working on these puzzles too hard for too long dude. That tortuous connection between Grant park and "set in stone" is so far-fetched, you're just playing numerology games with these puzzles rather than giving careful thought to any one of them. Just because you *can* draw connections between absolutely anything in the world doesn't mean you should for solving these poems. If he used logic as twisted as that Grant one, or like your No man->Odysseus->Polyphemos->lighthouse->lion connection, none of these puzzles would ever have been solved ever. CronoGamer, I am giving careful thought to this. I admit my reports seem twisted, but in my defense the author Byron Preiss has his role in creating a twisted puzzle. Take the "set in stone" idea with a grain of salt. It was an afterthought to begin with and a casque was found in Chicago without a need for the idea. I just felt it was worthwhile to point it out as a tactic that may be repeated in the other verses. I have a theory that I will continue to test that each first line of each verse has a dual purpose. Cask 10 Neutrino, I'm really with you on the City Hall being a big clue. I've wondered if it mattered that the angle on the perspective from where the photo of City Hall might have been made from. Looks to me like it fits with standing at the intersection of E. State and Water street. I'm partial to the Mitchell Hall (also named after Alexander Mitchell) because it fits the compass arc distance of about 2.75 miles from City Hall which also passes through Kosciuszko, but that's also not far off of intersecting with those Domes at Mitchell Park. I keep thinking there's some ulterior significance in the "three stories" detail. I'm not inclined to pursue the numerology of three to any great extent, but it does put me to wonder more about what kinds of stories would be told by Alexander himself. He was Scottish, a banker, a congressman, a railroad magnate, an avid curler (says wikipedia). He certainly associates with several landmarks in Milwaukee. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 14:46
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Bonestructure, I emailed you and another contact in Charleston. Tjgrey at Q4T recently submitted his report on searching the WPG location. Maybe he'll be of some help with your dig. You have a very good looking theory, IMHO.
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Jun 19, 2013 15:39
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Sten Freak posted:Yeah. In the 80s the average person may have a travel atlas in their car which would show roads and a very few major landmarks, not footpaths, tree lines and other readily accessible landmark data like we have today, and not on the scale or detail that some of these \/ suggestions carry. I agree to some extent, which is why I own some vintage triple-A road map to maintain a perspective on this hunt. Preiss couldve easily traced any road contour and provided it to the artist. The use of aerials is in reality a good tool and not a big departure from the manual references of a pre-internet age. Sten Freak, you seem to disagree that the tail of the centaur was intended as a match to the curved roadway around the Italian and Grecian Gardens. Seriously? Im shocked you can't see that visual exactness.
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Jun 19, 2013 16:17
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Ive read the posting rules and voiced my respect for them and been as supportive in my thoughts as possible with relatively few pictures and not six degrees of separation, but I understand the point being made. Im also refraining the best I can from defending attacks to my posts that have nothing of substance other than an opinion. I dont want to clog up the forums or judge peoples ideas in an unwarranted fashion. Im not here to complain. Im here to find answers. There will be alternative solutions. Theres no point in taking some presumptioms too seriously. Many things are unfalsifiable. Many negative opinions are flying. Its the mods job to sort out the ideas and the rules have been well put already. Stick with the bold caption of what cask youre talking about and let things fall into place. Enough trolling already. Please read thoughtfully, respond thoughtfully. Fistgrrl posted:Okay here's the rule: Smurph gets ONE (1) crazy theory to post per day. I don't want to have to scroll past too many walls of text. I will respect that. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 18:19
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The Hadas of Iberia: Sapphire, shy as a wild field flower. ---- (P6) Did Preiss write that or was it one of the other writers? If he did, then I'd like to take a closer look. Does Hadas pertain to a scholar of Classical history? Does this refer to the Georgian and Ancient Greek named Iberia or the Spain Iberia? Iberia (Georgian — იბერია, Latin: Iberia and Greek: Ἰβηρία), also known as Iveria (Georgian:ივერია), was a name given by the ancient Greeks and Romans to the ancient Georgiankingdom of Kartli (4th century BC – 5th century AD), corresponding roughly to the eastern and southern parts of the present day Georgia. The term Caucasian Iberia (or Eastern Iberia) is used to distinguish it from the Iberian Peninsula, where Spain, Portugal etc. are located. Depending, this might have significant implications. Edit: next question, how do we take the meaning of "shy" in connection to a wild field flower? I wonder what kind of flower and if its a clue to a state flower. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 15:55
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BJG posted:The introduction talks of "the Iberian Hadas (that is, the Spanish Fays)" Are you inferring Spain? How do exclude the older reference to Iberia Caucasian? Is Hadas a Spanish word or a fairy folklore reference?
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Jun 20, 2013 16:07
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BJG posted:I quoted exactly what it says... you can read it yourself if you click the link... Okay, that still isn't enough to dismiss some minimal examination and begs the question why was he being parenthetical there and not elsewhere? Are you taking tthings at face value or just not willing to take the extra step in thought? Show the link that switches your brain to "take it up a notch", bud.
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Jun 20, 2013 16:32
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Deteriorata posted:You're welcome to pursue the Georgian Iberia idea as far as you can take it. Let us know how it turns out. Good luck. Anyone here should be as welcome to respond to a thought provoking question. I pointed out that there may be implications in this examination, if its simple than anyone might be willing to make an effort. I'm interested in answers not lame tossing and turning. Wouldn't you agree that its important to ask the right questions? Please, help the effort if it suits you. No need to beg only the question asker for the answer if you have the balls to think critcally. Edit: let me explain the basis for my question. Like the Viking elves that scattered the jewels, and we know the true history of the Vikings did scatter and propigate various cultural gleanings (mostly by theft and force), here there are Greek references scattered throught the verses and images, and it is true that ancient Greek references are also scattered everywhere we might go in language, art and architecture, and folklore. I see that one parenthetical reference as a ploy to make it easy for us to dismiss the more original Iberia reference, which is rooted in an ancient Greek or Classical setting. If you don't think Preiss is referencing ancient Greek things while also drawing focus from distinct cultures then I'm sure you have no concern with my question. The implication that we believe the cintent of the paranthesis for the Sapphire is that we might be deliberatly fooled by Preiss. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 17:00
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Deteriorata posted:It appears that Preiss was quite clear that he meant Spain. Consequently, I think your idea is nuts and am not willing to invest any time in it. Respectfully, I made an edit to my previous post. I'm just curious to see if there is a basis for the author to put work into making any part of this hunt challenging by means of misdirection. Just that had the parenthetical Spain not been there, how would we have considered this? Its an intelligent question, framed and focused with citation and its shocking to think you think such process is nuts. Furthermore, I'm not even that concerned if you agree with me. I just noted the tenacity in these forums and took that as a sign people here don't believe everything they read. I assumed you wouldn't be milquetoast. Preiss has hosed with us for 30 years and you act way too nonchalant about it. I intend to research and ask questions to solve the puzzles problems. I don't wish to invest my time solving your personal problems. ( But PM me if you really want to talk about it.) Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 17:35
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rookhunter posted:Wow and you havn't even seen his Battle Star Galactica theory. Please don't bring that up. I debunked it long ago. You're eating into my 1 crazy theory post quota.
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Jun 20, 2013 17:39
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Deteriorata posted:The process isn't nuts, the particular question is. You asked if it was possible that's what he meant. BJG gave a pretty clear answer showing that it wasn't. I'm sorry I still don't see where Hadras is defined. I came up with very little on it when I googled. It said a U.S. teacher of Classics. My classes at the University in the subjuct of Classics were heavily if not entirely focused on ancient Greece. Don't you think its odd to use Hadras to mean Spain?
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Jun 20, 2013 18:03
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Cask 1 Verse 7 : Crazy San Francisco Theory (6/20/13) At stone wall's door Stone wall (idiom): We've run into a stone wall in our investigation. Unable to solve a problem: The Thinker (sculpture). The air smells sweet "heir" "sugar" fits rather well with Alma Spreckels, heiress to a fortune from sugar plantation, friend of Rodin and placed his work at the Palace of the Legion of Honor. Not far away High posts are three Several triple-lamp posts line the curved portion of the parking lot that fits the curve around the woman's head, the very tops of the lamps are an exact match to the top of the watch on table, notice the new location for the terminus marker for the Lincoln Memorial Highway:  Education and Justice For all to see “and justice for all.”: last four words of The Pledge of Allegiance, conceived to promote American nationalism to children in schools, The Pledge's final four words are "and justice for all" and is performed while facing a flag. Sounds from the sky “Fore!”: golf term for “look ahead”. Near ace is high Ace (cards), alphabet version: the letter A, if it's high, then it's considered one step greater than the king, the letter K, which is the letter L. Ace high is one step higher in rank than the King, the letter K. One letter beyond K is the letter L. This line translates to "Near the letter L". There happens to be a large letter L on the terminus marker for the Lincoln Memorial Highway inserted just next to the Three Shades sculpture. Numeric version: A = 14, nearest numbers are 13 or 15. The 15th hole on the golf course is just beyond the balustrade. I prefer the Lincoln Marker solution.  Running north, but first across The Golden Gate Bridge runs north across the bay and is itself first across. In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary (Pen): Twain (pen-name) uses this object (pen) to write. This is an instruction to use a map to set a course in the direction of the Pen. Giant pole Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. Keep in mind that sometime since 1981 the Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole has been replaced with a big red metal sculpture. The Three Shades have been removed. The Lincoln Highway marker has been moved a good distance to the edge of the lot. All we can do is look at the few pictures we've been lucky enough to find and some crappy historic aerials to get a sense for their positions. A) The Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole B) Terminus Marker for the Lincoln Memorial Highway (original location) C) Alcatraz, the answer to the object of Twain's attention: a Pen (Penitentiary) I thought the first obvious spot would be just over the edge (giant step) and at the base of the wall beyond the parking lot. Maltedfalcon at Q4T has done real shoveling to confirm it's not the spot unless it's buried much deeper than we think. I then thought, what in the verse tells us to follow that line to an obvious spot beyond the wall? I thought "near ace is high" could be inspired by A=14 (one higher than a King in cards) and therefore the 15th hole could be thougth of as near 14. Does that tell us to go onto the golf course grounds? I'm unable to determine a spot on the course itself that draws me in to justify a dig. I want to avoid the sense of it feeling too random. I then consider to continue along that line until I bump into a novel looking site, which takes me to the bench on the road below the course. At the bench we see the Golden Gate Bridge, which could be "Running north but first across". The bench also fits my idea for the first line where at Stone wall's door sits The Thinker sculpture and I believe it becomes relevant when we have to sit down on something to think: a rock, a chair or a bench.  I've made an adjustment to the angle I've been estimating based on taking an exact line to Alcatraz from the center of the spot where the Betsy Ross Flagpole use to be. The area I think it puts us has this view: I like the curvy tree crossing over on itself, maybe it looks like the arms of the woman in the image. Yes, I think I've found a convincing match. 
Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 23:07
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I just finished editing my post on page 60 for SF. I think I just spotted a match to the woman's crossed arms.
Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 02:56
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Deteriorata posted:I doubt those trees looked much like that 30 years ago, if they even existed. I think you're largely just seeing random stuff and forcing into your theory. Anyone's theory looks like it's forced. You do raise a very good point about trees and how they change over the years, decades in this case. I've been studying trees and their growth for awhile. It's interesting to look at the different species and their environments. Depending on things like rainfall, exposure, soil type, altitude, and latitude they have trends. I doubt we'll find a picture of these exact trees from 1980, but maybe we can find some similar trees in the area and work to establish some confidence in this prospect. I have learned that lots of trees along windy coastal areas are quite old 50-100 years and they still look small. It's hard to tell from this google image, but even if the tree didn't look like a pattern fit, I'm already establishing some good logical constraints for considering this spot.
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Jun 21, 2013 03:34
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Cask 9 Verse 10 Why does the legeater drawing break the square? Seems like an odd thing to do. This large metal sculpture in Vancouver looks into Stanley Park where miniature train engine No.374 can be found. The No.374 was the first train to journey all the way across Canada on the first transcontinental railroad credited to Lord Mount Stephen whom owned the legeater lamp in Montreal. The Gateway to the Northwest Passage: 
Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 20:52
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