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ViggyNash posted:Superheroes are essentially the magical girls of Hollywood (albeit less prolific), so it would be pretty easy to simply replace the latter with the former. So basically a less cynical Kick-rear end?
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Aug 16, 2013 04:24
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ViggyNash posted:If you're talking about the Powderpuff Girls, that was a decade ago and I don't think there's been anything since. This is funnier to think about when you remember that Japan made their own anime adaptation of PPG which was as straight up generic magical girl as you can get. I guess the lesson is giving normal people magical/super powers is a popular storytelling genre in all regions. Details and intricacies vary. 
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Aug 16, 2013 06:14
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PerrineClostermann posted:But never by very much. Hell, even Power Rangers is a lot like a magical girl show. Power Rangers is a mashup of Super Sentai footage, which in itself was the inspiration for Sailor Moon's style of magical girl series which have been the standard ever since. Everything is connected. 
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Aug 16, 2013 06:36
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I find myself unable to really distill Madoka into into a set of "this is what you're supposed to feel" emotional moments, and I think that's a credit to the show. It isn't like a Key work where every emotional cue is agonizingly transparent (disclaimer: I am not particularly fond of Key works not called Clannad: After Story, to put it kindly), it lets its characters, setting, and narrative flow at a steady pace and trusts the viewer to respond emotionally in their own way. It's not a "sad" show or a "tragic" show or a "happy" show, it's a show where exciting things happen and interesting things happen and wow I love this character and hate this character etc. etc. and every person watching gets swept up in the narrative on their own terms. I'm sorry if this is unclear or doesn't make a lot of sense, it's difficult for me to really explain what makes Madoka work as well as it does on an emotional level, just that it's far more involving and nuanced than most works of entertainment and its extreme popularity and its ability to draw in people of many different tastes and preferences is a testament to that.
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Aug 19, 2013 04:52
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HondaCivet posted:
I think all magical girls have sort of a "baseline" set of abilities and attributes they can use their magic for in addition to whatever abilities/weapons are conferred on them due to their wish. Homura was shown shooting energy blasts at Kyubey for example and of course she used her magic to completely fix her sickly body and become an athletic freak. I'd imagine it's the same for everyone else.
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Aug 21, 2013 23:32
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Mordaedil posted:Notable things we didn't see in the anime as I recall: This wasn't addressed directly but if I remember correctly it's shown that there was a period of roughly a week(?) or so between the day she rewinds to and the day she actually begins school, and it's within this period that Madoka contracts. Madoka doesn't contract during this time in later cycles because Homura had long since started trying to prevent it.
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Aug 22, 2013 08:20
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Well poo poo  I might actually end up driving to see this if it's nearby cause there's no way in hell I can avoid spoilers for six months.
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Sep 6, 2013 00:00
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If Madoka wishes for infinite energy, assuming that's even remotely possible in this universe, then she likely turns into a witch powerful enough to destroy the universe instantly. Hell, that's almost what actually happened, and it was only prevented because of the wish itself.
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Sep 6, 2013 03:13
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What in the holy hell did I just watch? (major movie spoilers obviously) Like, I barely even know where to start. I guess my immediate impression is that it really puts the end of the series in a new light. It was ostensibly a good ending as it fixed the screwed up hope/despair cycle and allowed Madoka, at the cost of her existence, to provide solace to fallen magical girls when previously there was none. But if you think about it, this was never a good ending for Homura, in fact you could argue that was the worst result from her end. Throughout the original series there was never any indication that Homura was acting out of a sense of altruism. Everything she did was done in line with a single-minded obsessive devotion to one person, a person she lost seemingly for good. Even if she seemed fine with the result at the end of the series, it seems from how the movie played out that, whether subconsciously or not, she totally wasn't. I think the most poignant moment regarding this is when Homura was breaking down in front of Madoka and she said that she had started to doubt whether her memories of Madoka were even real at all. That must have left quite a toll on her. So now we have Kyubey mucking things about. Incidentally, I think my favorite part of the movie was the idea that Kyubey is even MORE of a magnificent bastard than we were led to believe. You do NOT give this little conniving weasel an inch, not even a single millimeter, because he will find a way to use it to his advantage. Anywho, Kyubey screws things up, essentially forces Homura into a constant negative feedback loop of despair and sadness, so when she gets saved (love, LOVE the idea of fallen magical girls being able to embrace and use their witch barriers, I hope that gets explored in later works) she's essentially on the absolute brink of despair when Madoka, her most important person shows up and... well, raw emotion takes over. She wasn't happy with how things were and it turns out when you are completely unhinged and unable to act rationally you end up doing very questionable things. I do not think Homura was justified here and this was definitely a case where an otherwise noble goal was twisted and perverted out of intense uncontrolled emotion and desperation. Which when you think about it was exactly the major theme of the original series from the start. Homura is quite literally a fallen angel, not that they made that particular fact subtle in any way, but still. A far more succinct summary of what went down: "I reject your reality and substitute my own" Frankly I loved it and would totally watch it again in the theater if at all possible (not looking good for me...). The first half was me sitting quietly in bewilderment while the second half was just an endless stream of yelling at the screen and hitting my chair. This was also some of the most striking visual work I've seen out of Inu Curry's collaboration with Shaft. Homura vs Mami might be one of my favorite fight scenes in anime ever. Super Jay Mann fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 22:14
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Factor_VIII posted:That also occurred in the Oriko manga. I haven't really explored any of the supplementary materials, is Oriko (and perhaps something else) worth looking at? veekie posted:There's no reason why a witch couldn't control their barriers to begin with. Their power derives from fundamentally the same source as magical girls. Powerful emotions. The difference is that Witches are consumed by their emotions, and functionally insane, so they can't use the power to do anything but lash out. In exchange they're running on looped emotions, positive emotions can be exhausted but negative emotions tend to feed on themselves and grow. (movie spoilers again) In light of the movie I wonder about the nature of witches themselves. Like, does Sayaka even have a proper 'soul gem' anymore or is she literally Oktavia who is able to use 'Sayaka' as a vessel? I always assumed from how it was explained in the show that witches were the corrupted soul of the magical girl having broken out of the gem. Or what about Homura? Is she a witch now? Did she stop just short of becoming a witch? What do you even call her now? Is she a being of similar nature to Madoka or is that manifestation just because she stole her power? Some interesting stuff to consider. And hell, just what exactly are magical girls capable of anyway? I mean we have Godoka sure, but as the movie showed her power is actually somewhat limited and was easily overcome just by sheer force of will and emotion by (Witch?)Homura. Can there be even stronger manifestations of power and emotion by these girls than being able to rewrite the universe to your whim at will? Kyubey was on to something when he saw what Homura was doing and basically reacted with "Screw the harvest, I gotta get the hell out of here."
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Nov 21, 2013 09:02
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Smornstein posted:I finally sat down and watched the camrip of Rebellion and i was fine until about an hour in then i just stopped comprehending anything and i would very much appreciate it if someone could explain what all happened in that movie. Cliffnotes version (massive spoilers obviously) -Homura overextends herself in the real world, starts to become a witch. -Incubators use  to seal Homura in what seems to be her own pocket universe and essentially cut off the effect of Madoka's wish on her, all for the purposes of discovering a method to subvert the Law of Cycles and restore the witch system, because it's more efficient. Yeah bunnycat is still a dick. This allows the witchification process to continue unimpeded.-For reasons (magic?), Homura's barrier manifests as Mitakihara and unwittingly draws in all the principle characters to "reprise their roles", so to speak. The magical girls, any other important people related to them, etc. -Madoka, being, you know, a goddess, knew what was going on and allowed herself, Sayaka, and Nagisa to be pulled into Homura's witch barrier in an effort to save her from within. I don't remember if Madoka losing her memory of being a goddess was planned or an unintentional side effect. -The first 2/3rds of the movie happen, Homura slowly figures out that she became a witch, Kyubey explains to her what he did and why everyone else was there, Homura attempts complete her witch transformation and essentially kill herself to save Madoka from the Incubators. During all this she has a conversation with Madoka (without her memories mind you) and through a line of questioning ascertains that she is unhappy with her role as goddess and misses her normal life. -Sayaka and Nagisa spring into action and with the help of the other girls break through the barrier the Incubators set up, allowing Madoka to take Homura to Magical Girl Valhalla or whatever people are calling it now. -Homura, believing that her wish to save Madoka still hadn't been granted, and likely driven by an extreme amount of despair and emotional instability, uses her own magic to separate Madoka from the Law of Cycles and rewrite the universe with her own witch barrier (or at least that's how I understood it) to have Madoka in it, allowing her to live a normal life once more. As a side effect, Sayaka and Nagisa are restored to their normal lives, relatively speaking. The act of "defying a god" is where the whole Demon Homura imagery comes from, obviously. -It's implied that Homura's control over this world is incredibly unstable and that she failed in completely separating Madoka from her status as a goddess, so she is capable of remembering everything if things go wrong. What happens after this remains to be seen.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:51
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I really wish people would stop the (movie spoilers) "Shinbo forced Urobuchi to change the ending into an open one, how horrible" spiel like in that Reddit post because it's hilariously disingenuous and shows complete ignorance of how creative works like these even get developed.
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Mar 6, 2014 18:58
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Kyrie eleison posted:
I don't quite understand what this has to do with what I said.
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Mar 10, 2014 04:30
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I on the other hand found great joy in seeing just how far the movie went to twist and corrupt the themes of the original series. Put a twist of many of the things we initially took for granted.
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Mar 31, 2014 04:30
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wielder posted:Personally, I wouldn't speak of outright "hate" in my case...but I do want to see them actually put this turn of events to good use. This franchise is a cash-cow to a scale that hasn't been seen in years. There is a 0% chance that they just leave the story here as is.
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Mar 31, 2014 07:26
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Cephas posted:But the strange thing to me is that Madoka herself seems to have transformed between the second and third movies. What is this about not wanting to break rules? The Madoka of the original story fought to allow girls the ability to strive for their desires; why is Homura now the one more closely aligned with this belief? I had figured that Madoka from the movie, being uninhibited by the memory and burden of being forced into making a purely sacrificial wish, was expressing her true feelings, or at least her feelings lacking knowledge of what had occurred. Whether this is indicative of any deep-seated regret for what she did or just musings from a naive girl who doesn't know any better isn't really important. Homura interpreted things her way and went from there. I think the official subs help in understanding this conversation a lot more. It wasn't really about Homura trying to fulfill Madoka's wish or anything like that, it was that Madoka's wish sparked a moment of clarity in her, where she realizes that she just blindly accepted Madoka's sacrifice as the best solution even though she didn't want it. That she passively let it happen without doing anything more in her power to stop her. It's that revelation that serves as the seed for everything she does after Sayaka and co break out of her barrier.
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Mar 31, 2014 08:31
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ViggyNash posted:There's still one thing I don't understand. I know there's some kind of symbolism with the half-moon and half-hill in the post-credits segment, which homura falls off after her dance, but I'm not getting it. Can someone explain it for me? It's a callback to the scene with Madoka and Homura sitting side-to-side in the flower field. By the end she's betrayed Madoka and made herself the villain. She's all alone now, missing her "other half" so to speak.
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Apr 6, 2014 06:01
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Even if the legal process went perfectly for Madoka how would penalties be enforced anyway? I mean, the process of receiving your wish, turning into a magical girl and having your soul lich'd is presumably permanent, so voiding the contract would accomplish nothing in practice. Madoka or her family can't be compensated because Kyubey has no assets and no net worth. Maybe you could say it'd prevent Kyubey from making contracts with future girls but even if he continued to contract girls and found himself criminally liable for doing so, then what? It's not like he can be incarcerated, what with being some sort of hive mind and all. And he certainly can't be executed... Seems like in the end the whole process just boils down to worthless posturing!
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May 10, 2014 20:01
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I feel like Aniplex is really pushing to finish up the rest of Monogatari before putting Shaft to more Madoka.
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Oct 23, 2014 06:38
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I said come in! posted:Rebellion was an amazing movie. All haters can suck it. I concur with this sentiment.
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Oct 26, 2014 21:54
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The girls may have eventually gotten over the fact that they're essentially gems controlling meat puppets (perhaps they're even aware of this fact from the start in the remade world? I don't recall if this is addressed at all) but it's easy to believe that they may have felt it was a violation of their sense of self that they didn't consent to, not to mention that Kyubey intentionally withholding what he was actually doing to them was the first clear cut sign that he was kind of a scummy bastard that couldn't be trusted. Sayaka in particular was just a unique case because of the whole Kyousuke thing. We can't know for sure exactly what level of sacrifice she thought she was making when she made her wish but I suppose the Soul Gem revelation sort of put in the forefront the permanence of her decision. She was indentured to fight witches for the rest of her life and in her view she was emphatically, irreversibly "no longer human" and thus not a compatible partner for Kyousuke. Perhaps one with transhumanist ideals or someone older who's lived their life and can approach such a situation in a reasoned and objective manner would be able to come to terms with this fact but no one should expect that out of a random 14-year old girl.
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Jan 15, 2015 00:48
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Namtab posted:Interesting thought though: What if they gave Mami's soul gem to another girl who lost hers? Would Mami take control? Would the girl just reawaken? Or would nothing happen, the implication being that part of what makes the system work is the gem being specifically tied to a single puppet? This makes me wonder, is the mechanism that allows a soul gem to control a human body as a puppet also the same mechanism that allows a witch to take over random passerbys and induce them to suicide? quote:E: Actually, scratch all that above. If the gem breaks when Mami's puppet is damaged sufficiently then that implies that the gem is tied to the puppet it controls. Well in Mami's case the soul gem is on her head and the head is what Charlotte chomped up so I find it highly unlikely the gem itself would have withstood that type of abuse.
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Jan 15, 2015 01:26
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Rebellion is perfect and takes the good but otherwise unremarkable TV ending and improves upon it immensely. 
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Jan 17, 2015 07:09
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trucutru posted:Let me see, madoka the seemingly weak-willed girl who embodies selfless love becomes a goddess wearing a cute white dress with full angel wings. While hormura, the seemingly strong-willed girl who embodies selfish love* becomes a demon wearing a sexy-ish black dress with fake angel wings. Hey remember how Princess Tutu has literally this same motif with Tutu and Kraehe, just to name one other example in Madoka's genre, probably because implying contrast through visual design and character expression in this manner is a tried and true storytelling convention and Madoka Magica is not any different in this manner. This whole hoopla about Homura's sexuality and what it means just confuses me because the answer is right there front and center.
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Jul 28, 2015 18:59
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Namtab posted:Remember the ep where she ate the food? Yep she sure ate that food. How about the other episode where she ate the food?
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Jul 28, 2015 19:02
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PerrineClostermann posted:Now that the tyranny of pretension has been ostensibly vanquished to the depths of literary hell whence it proginated in progenigatory, what sorts of junk would you wanna see in a sequel series? The spinoff mangas already cover this really. For a sequel I wanna see Puella Magi Sayaka Magic, Sayaka fighting against the evil Homura and her forces.
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Jul 28, 2015 21:09
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Namtab posted:Koufuku Graffiti, but kyouko Who would win in an eating contest, Kyouko or Kirin?
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Jul 28, 2015 21:54
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cheetah7071 posted:Basically, every single magical girl but Madoka is extremely bad at wishes. Mami was under extreme duress and probably minutes from death when she made her wish, expecting her to be thoughtful and conscientious of her wish is a bit much to ask given the circumstances.
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Jul 28, 2015 22:06
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.jpg posted:I think you've all been very mean to Lord Justice over the past few days. He just wants Madoka to get the same respect any pure and beautiful work of art deserves It's over, the thread is over, lock it forever.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:04
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I like using words too and it can be useful to spend many words clarifying your thoughts when you want to express very specific ideas, but it's just as useful to use concise language to make your ideas easy to follow. If a more thorough explanation is requested then that's fine, otherwise just get to the point.Srice posted:While I was never really into the writing side of Madoka, Shinbo is a really cool director. Gekidan Inu Curry in particular really outdid themselves with Rebellion, and that's saying something considering their work on the TV series and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei.
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Jul 30, 2015 03:08
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boom boom boom posted:Just watched episode 7. This as here I gave up on the show last time I tried to watch it. Kyoko's backstory being a watered don version of Kamen Rider Ouja's, except that she kill her family in a fire, I was just like, "nope, I'm out" In retrospect that wasn't very fair. The story is basically the same and the characters are all based off Ryuki characters, but it's clear Madoka is doing it's own thing with it. Wait wasn't it a murder-suicide by her dad?
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Aug 5, 2015 21:39
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Namtab posted:Kyouko x apples Hell no kyouko belongs with pocky, keep your apples away from her.
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Aug 26, 2015 08:42
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littleorv posted:It is now time to make 3000 word posts about the symbolism in Rebellion It's not page 75 yet.
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Oct 9, 2015 23:13
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Hitomi acted in a completely reasonable manner given she was completely ignorant of Sayaka's extenuating circumstances and literally did nothing wrong. And even if you think she did, she ended up getting the short end anyway, trying to get together with someone as devoted to their career prospects as Kyousuke is a relationship that is doomed to crushing failure. Sayaka dodged a bullet. 
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Oct 31, 2015 09:00
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Nobody likes girls with glasses.
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Nov 20, 2015 09:46
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Lord Justice's insane delve into all things Madoka has been vindicated, we were fools to oppose him all long.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:17
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a kitten posted:Not even rebellion. But Rebellion is also Literally Perfect 
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Dec 31, 2015 18:23
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