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Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!
Well, if nothing else, the campaign mode has certainly turned me around on HE strike planes. Those F-4 bomb trucks and F-86 rocket carriers, jeez.

Also I think "ban tank fagot" is supposed to be pronounced "Ban Tank Fah-Goh", so the internet rage pun doesn't really work.

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Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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Shanakin posted:

No idea what the N.Koreans actually call it but no, the T is not silent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K111_Fagot

Huh. Could've sworn when it refers to a bassoon and not a sticks bundle, "fagot" has a silent T.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Hubis posted:

There aren't nearly enough Technicals in this game :colbert:

What do you call the recoilless rifle jeeps, then? WOMBATs and SPG-9s and the like? They're close enough, I'd say.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Mukip posted:

BTRs are great fun. After dropping off their troops, you can do great things with their high speed and crappy autocannons that you probably wouldn't dare attempt with other units. Persoanlly I'd rather pay 15pts per transport and get a bunch of raiding squads than a load of useless machine gun APCs.

Hello, Afghanistan bronegruppa tactics!

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Shanakin posted:

2 rookies @45% = 90% chance to kill
1 Elite @ 58% = 58% chance to kill

Uhm...probabilities aren't additive like that.

The 2 rookie scenario is better modeled as "chance to not miss", which is 1 - (.55^2) = ~70%

EDIT: Actually, hang on, how many hits does the Pon'gae 2 need to score to kill? Somebody said it only needs one hit to kill a plane.

Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Apr 21, 2014

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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DatonKallandor posted:

Yeah seriously, these are people that genuinely think that Fallschirmjäger 90 were fine before the nerf. And that nerfing them was a personal insult to the german community.

:wtc:

That's like saying the reason Scandinavia and NSWP didn't get new units at game launch is because Eugen hates Swedes/Norwegians/Danes/Poles/Czechs personally.

(I still want new Swedish and Polish units :v:)

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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How's it stack up with the boondoggle Bradley? :haw:

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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No love for East Germany? Or are they waiting for their army upgrade to cry about them?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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DatonKallandor posted:

Speaking of Minors, are there any big holes in those coalitions that need DLC units? Scandinavia and the eastern europe block seem pretty okay in Coalition form.

Only thing I can think of is a heavier tank for the Nordic guys. Every other coalition has access to 100+ point tanks, even NSWP through Poland's T-72 upgrades!

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Schnaufer posted:



SK60B confirmed for absolutely disgusting.

I'm guessing the intended target was that tank? Yowzas, no more baby nighthawks for us.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Insert name here posted:

I still think it's a little silly that a single tank shell can wipe out like 7/8 guys in a squad in a single shot.

Per shot or per volley? Because I''ve only seen 7-8 guys go away when I have 4 squads of infantry in one group fired at by 4 tanks in one group.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Arglebargle III posted:

I fully support a minor expansion that introduces tactical nuclear weapons to the familiar units and gameplay elements. Did you know the US fielded nuclear-tipped air to air missiles?

AIM-26 Super Falcons. If they are anything like their baby AIM-4 brothers, you'd probably nuke yourself.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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Panzarskytte '90 and Hemvarnsmen '90 that blow all other infantry out of the water. :getin:

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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But Centurions suuuuuuck.

And how come France gets not one, but two pieces of counter-battery arty? That stuff seems slim on the ground as it is without one nation hogging the bestest ones.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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Kinda funny how when we talk about adding "Scandinavian" units most of the units that we come up with are pretty much "Swedish". Do Norway and Denmark seriously have nothing good to add in this era? If Sweden stole Norway's F-16 bombers and NOAH AA launchers could they stand on their own as "Super Sweden" or something?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Holy...those 770 range LMGs are actually good?! Why did no one tell me?!

Just for kicks, somebody should make just one last addition to the table: a column for which units use which machine gun. Most US infantry use that M60 at the bottom down there, right?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Shanakin posted:

The M60 and PKM, the two worst machine guns are both very common, and both very, very bad.


edit: see that KSP m/58 LMG? That's the one the swedish reservists have and it's essentially a WW2 BAR rifle (from memory).

And here I was thinking that 980m range on a machine gun was a good thing. Looks like aside from the MG3 it's a sign of low damage. Pfeh! At least I know my Hemvarnsman still rock the casbah! :black101:

Also, are the Minimi and stuff like it listed in the game files as 5.45mm, or is that just a typo?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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By the way, Shanakin, since I'm sure this would come up if you brought your data to the forums and stuff now, is the CtH/distance relationship such that you can tell the DPS for all the machine guns at 980, 875, and 770 meters? I mean, it's still good right now, but showing how bad the M60/PKM would still suck at 770 meters might help your case even more.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Xerxes17 posted:

Overnight MadMat messaged me on steam:"since you've became the new Myth Buster here, could you apply your science to the American M60. The RoF display is actually just a display, I'm pretty sure 99% of the people calling it the worst MG are only checking that stat and not using it ingame."

I just linked him the first picture and said "it is the worst though :V" :haw:

Oh dear. Shouldn't the devs know how their system works? Or is MadMat not directly involved with the unit programming side of things?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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So I just finished the Bear vs. Dragon campaign by literally cramming every last pawn I had down the throat of the last objective...is it supposed to end so anti-climatically? I didn't even get a little "Victory!" message!

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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TheDeadlyShoe posted:

For me it said something like "Congratulations... General."

Was kind of nonplussed at that tbh :P

It would be neat if it showed total losses and destroyed formations etc.

That would be cool.

It would also be cool if the AI knew how to use "refit" to give me a proper final battle! :flaccid:

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Cimber posted:

We can fix that.



But what if your Wargame nation of choice doesn't match your actual nation? I want new units/buffs to Sweden, Poland, and Japan, and I'm "amurricun".

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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General Battuta posted:

Does Poland have any decent infantry ATGM options, or is the Konkurs vehicle where it's at?

I think their ATGM planes are pretty good, the SU-20 and SU-22M3. But that just might be my opinions from spamming them in ALB carrying over.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Tulip posted:

Am i alone in thinking that RD feels like a beta for ALB? I played some ALB this afternoon and i can't think of anything mechanical i missed from RD while playing.

Singleplayer for Red Dragon is definitely better, though. I like having the sub-units to move around and bolster where I need, and I don't feel lacking for units in battle.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Mortabis posted:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :qq: MY POLACKS

Is THAT why Polish Airborne were so good before? It wasn't deliberate?! :qq: :hf: :qq:

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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DatonKallandor posted:

No more Trucks is awesome. The whole 1 point empty trucks was bullshit, and the fact that it's gone is great. So is the transport card limit so you can't, in some cases, bring all your infantry in the same transport. The problem is they didn't price the transports with the card limit in mind. The most you should pay for a good IFV is 20 points - and you can do that even if the IFV is loving awesome for 20 points, because you can still balance it by giving it really low cards. They've implemented the transport card mechanic so they can use it for balance - but they're not using it for balance.

So the Marder 1A3 isn't imbalanced due to being overpowered; it's perfectly balanced and everything else (Bradley M2A2, BMP-3, etc.) needs to be upgunned/uparmored/price cheapened to match?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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The location of the reinforcement arrows...?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

Got bored, made an all Gavin deck:



XpAxg4j60BIHkqRPJUimPIwwcR9lekbedI5jyMI4I9QPowgfRgYuVnKltG2jbX1pa03STJW0raTgoIkdKSpHWlDMVr64ykjSRhZLswiUVLdpuzndCsA=

Anything particular I'm missing that also comes in an M113?

Ditch the planes you've got, add more Skyhawks.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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So I made a couple of dumb decks for the heck of it!

A US Airborne deck
BrCxZMwEepbI9MD1EnEYBaAwDCqZ2FUzvJqneSsA8lqJ5LU7DKokbbAKQBdLs52mLjdaiqxZpSkzSZpSEJCEvaWM6aoOS/qDVRCohUEpKcnOUkspoV2YbiA=

and a Polish Airborne deck.
lrAtELQZmyEpPEJsg4TZBwmyEhNllCTLKg2ikJtFITk8Qk3tb2uCXBLeJvE3gQLlsS7yJhEwhHQjoly25ocvyZicnuOJGKihSogXTiuI04icRy2A

Funnily enough, I feel like the Polish one is stronger than the US one. I know I must have made a bunch of silly choices in both decks, but is Polish Airborne really that good?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Mazz posted:

Is it worth 90 points? Probably not, but I'd say that all AA in RD (especially PACT) seems overpriced then the Tunguska specifically.

Is it possible that this is deliberate, as a way to encourage the use of planes to counter planes and helicopters?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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DatonKallandor posted:

I wish they'd go a little more abstract and give some sort of defensive bonus to platoons. Maybe a couple points of ECM/avoidance for every member of a group past the first one. Something to reduce the whole "buy everything in groups of 1" thing. Especially choppers really need some sort of bonus to counter the huge downside of the 2-chopper-squads.
It'd also make 4-medium-tank squads better, since they'd be easier to assemble than 4-heavy-tank squads.

Hear hear to that! Being able to give 4 4-packs orders instead of 16 individuals goes a long way to making the game playable, and since military stuff rarely operates in singles, it should be encouraged, or at least not actively discouraged by cluster bombs and stuff.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Shanakin posted:

Mukips support doesn't count because Sparrow said he has bad micro.

I thought the desired endstate of Wargame's design was that micro would be less important than good planning?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Xerxes17 posted:

So on the Eugen forums there's a thread where they have put some suggested decks ready for import.

http://www.wargame-ee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=155&t=45048

This is an Armored USSR deck from that chest-beating ~pro player~ Sparouw.

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/794067979509623750/D8ABB8E099EBD43A3EA1EBBA40B1759A6F8C86A9/

It explains so loving much. :allears:

The deck does feel weak, but I can't quite put a finger on why. Maybe it's a lack of capability outside of the few high-end tanks? I don't really run armored decks, though. Can somebody who does post their own for comparison and explain where Sparouw goes awry?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Xerxes17 posted:

Yeah, he could make that deck again as a national one and loose nothing at all, it would even be better! TOR, MSTA-S, BTR infantry, etc.

Edit: I Wish we could have posted this in the Tanks thread when he was massively making GBS threads it up. Because this picture alone shows he's god zero loving idea about tanks/armored.

Wait, he's not even using the USSR prototypes? Then why make a pure USSR deck?

Oh well, at least I noticed that the only strong point in the deck were those 6 high end T-80s. I'm getting better!

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Xerxes17 posted:

Whoops, I mean't unspecialized. Calling it a national deck is a habit from ALB.

Ah, okay.

A dozen heavy tanks with few "very good" recon options. I wonder if he has difficulties with airborne or motorized decks, and how he rationalizes them?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Wait, when did Li Jian become the special forces top end? I thought that was still West German Fallshirmjagers?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Is there any sort of pattern on these guns that I'm missing? They look all over the map!

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Shanakin posted:

They're sorted by HE/s.

I meant like "what sort of gun gets a high HE/s". I mean, I wasn't expecting the best gun to be on a Swedish plane, for example. And apparently that 37mm cannon on some of the NSWP jets does practically diddly?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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That doesn't sound like much of a nerf, really... :ohdear:

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Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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I can't remember, does ANZAC get an equivalent to something like the F-16 Block 15? Granted, that's not a whole lot, but it's something to go with the HAWKs and Hamlets for Denmark.

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