MechWarrior Online: Sisyphus could learn a thing or two

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > MechWarrior Online: Sisyphus could learn a thing or two

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Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Hey, is this a cool thread for cool people to talk about Heavy Gear Assault, Hawken and other robot games?

# ¿ Jul 24, 2014 20:13

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 20:22

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

YouTuber posted:

Wow I legit was just thinking about Mechwarrior today and remembered I played this game for like 4 matches during the beta. I come and find this thread and I'm glad I did. Time to slip out the side door quickly if this game is so poo poo the first 3 pages are uniformly people ranting about how poo poo it is.

If you just want to shoot robots as a solo player it's pretty ok. Just don't expect anything more than the robot equivalent of a MOBA and you'll have a decent time.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2014 20:58

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Drone_Fragger posted:

Should I get back into this or is my 3 x SRM6 centurian and 8 large laser stalker boat now useless garbage for idiots?

SRMs are less crap than they have been, but gently caress you if you fire more than two large lasers at a time, eat your ghost heat and like it.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2014 22:20

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

oswald ownenstein posted:

Can anyone explain why ghost heat is such a problem?

I only encountered it when trying to do more than 6 medium lasers on my light mech, and even then I just put them in different weapon groups and chain fired NP.

It sounds like a bunch of people angry that they can't alpha on one mouse button with 8 million things on their assault mech and I can't shed any tears over that. Different weapon groups, mouse 1, mouse 2, done.

The issue is that rather than tuning weapon damage, weapon heat, weapon tonnage, weapon slots, projectile speeds, beam duration, cycle times, how many heat sinks you get by default, how much heat each sink disspiates, how many slots each sink takes up, how heavy a sink is or any of the many, many options that they had at their disposal, PGI opted to bolt yet another mechanism on top. Rather than encourage diverse builds, they opted for a system that slaps your hand when you do something the design team don't like, and for a good couple of months after it was introduced we still had no explanation as to what it was supposed to accomplish. As it stands you still need to go to an third party site (Smurfy's mechlab) to see exactly what penalties you're attracting with particular loadouts. There wasn't even an in game indicator until after UI 2.0 dropped, and even that is just a red triangle that tells you you built your mech wrong.

It's lazy, it's ham fisted, and it didn't even do what they were trying to do with it - PPC and Gauss rifles still ruled the roost after it came in until they nerfed PPCs and stuck the charge up time on the gauss.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2014 07:39

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

DiHK posted:

No, I mean the 3 or so green chalk-board diagrams that look like a 5 year-old made them. Those were super helpful.

And anyway, Ghost Heat did fix something in eyes, it punished optimal builds and encourages [BRACKET] builds, which is a mech that carries long, medium AND short range weapons.

I've always had the impression that what PGI always wanted was stock pen and paper builds, and it baffles me that they went with an MW4 style customizable loadout system.

I'm sure one of the developers said that the original plan was to have nothing but stock builds. That's why they had to go back and amend the early mechs to have the weapons you had loaded actually appear on the mech. Honestly, forcing stock mechs only would have probably been better than what we got.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2014 16:29

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Hawken is pretty fun, but like everything else out there it's a lot faster paced than MWO. Really, if you want something with the same pace and weight you have to go back to the other Mechwarrior games.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 08:38

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

It really just comes across like the design team really don't want to do a comprehensive pass on all the weapons so they're running around slapping band aids on things when the complaining gets too much to ignore. Gwaihir posted earlier about how you balance the sniper type weapons (I.e. Give them a fuckton of damage but make them take ages to cycle) but instead of that we're getting yet another "gently caress you don't use those guns together" solution. This'll keep going on until eventually there's no weapons you can fire at the same time and everything has to be chain fired or you explode.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2014 16:05

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Chronojam posted:

A long time ago, a representative from PGI came to talk to several groups, including goons, about how to balance weapons. Goons pointed to a variety of video games of all degrees of complexity to illustrate options there were, including games like Team Fortress 2, the newer Battlefield games, and MechWarrior: Living Legends.

One of the principal points was to adequately balance long-range high-alpha weapons against other options. Concerns like specific map cover and jump-sniping aside, mathematically, the long-range high-alpha builds were able to consistently put out more damage over the course of a round, and PGI needed to close this gulf. A "brawling" mech that managed to close the distance would likely have suffered a lot of damage already, if focus-fire did not take it out altogether (killing a group's effective DPS). Long-range high-alpha weapons also were able to keep competitive DPS even up close, and their ability to frontload damage with little warning gave them a big advantage for focusing fire.

Brawlers thus need to be able to make up for the difference in time during which they have been unable to reciprocate, and any sort of health increases would favor brawling by reducing the % of total damage done from safety. Making it less easy for snipers to hit, along with longer refire times, is another option. Once in range, brawlers need to come up from a team damage (and probable team DPS) deficit so their weapons also need to do lay on damage quicker.

This also provided an opportunity to differentiate certain weapon classes that were a little uncertain of their place in the game, such as pulse lasers, which were really only feasible as a way to squeeze a tiny bit more damage out of limited energy slots if you somehow had heat/weight/slots to spare and no other hardpoints.

This PGI representative explained that, actually, it's impossible to balance short-range versus long-range weapons in any videogame. Pulse lasers had their heat adjusted slightly.

The specific example to prove his point was that the railgun in quake 3 was good.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2014 18:05

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Yep, there's nothing else that feels like it. It's a massive shame that they've nailed that but lack either the will, desire or ability to sort out the balance with anything other than sticking plasters, and that they've basically spent a full year of development alienating people.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2014 19:43

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/166407-clan-vs-is-happening-again/

Haha, they turned on Clan vs IS matching for a couple of hours on the live servers without telling anyone. After 8 pages that alternate between people going "Maybe it would be good if they warned us in advance about tests that make the game unfair" and "Get better :smug:

"the community manager shows up:

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/166407-clan-vs-is-happening-again/page__view__findpost__p__3597935

And basically goes "Yup, we sure did that thing, thanks!"

PGI are now actively trolling people that didn't pay for clan mechs.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2014 10:05

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

I think it was voluntary in that they could choose to stop or choose to be served with a C&D notice.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2014 13:00

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Hah, wow. I'm actually surprised at that. They generally try to do MC first with everything. I also haven't seen that post, and I've generally tried to keep up with the state of the game.

What a lovely money sink for new players though. Isn't that number most of the cadet bonus? It says you need only about 2 hours playtime to be the level to do it, so you'll likely be in the cadet range still.

Once a group is formed you won't need to pay to join it, if I remember correctly. It's only a cbill sink for the people that set it up.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2014 16:49

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

DOUBLE POST, EXTRA HEAT GENERATED

# ¿ Aug 3, 2014 17:04

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

TeeMerk posted:

If I register here and don't pay a dime do these folks consider me retained?

CIG don't need to worry about retention rates as people have given them fifty million dollars already. And they gave most of that before there was anything playable.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 07:51

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Reminder that one of the stated purposes of heat scale was to stop future clan mechs from being overpowered. Your nova is supposed to be broken. Hooray.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 17:23

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Those 5Ns were horrendous. 25 rounds of UAC ammo, 2 MLs and an LRM launcher and it was still too hot on caustic. I really hope the kerensky night stuff played some part in the move away from stock mechs as trials because gently caress 95% of stock mechs in mwo.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 18:03

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

I'm sorry but the quake 3 railgun :words:

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 19:00

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Koorisch posted:

Oh god, this talk about Trial mech's reminds me when me and my team went all Trial Hunchback 4J's for funzies, that thing was a terrible build.

A single ton of LRM ammo on a mech built on having two LRM-10's is not acceptable at all, I'm amazed we managed to win against a full team of not-HBK-4J's considering that the thing barely had any heatsinks for the lasers, thank god we were on the forest map with all that water.

God, I remember that round. We had no business winning anything in those things.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 20:27

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Galaga Galaxian posted:

Teamwork has always ruined MWO.

A rare sighting of Mighty Dicktron with his original name intact.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 22:30

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Lemming posted:

Only way I'll play this game again is if they implement 24 person Urbanmech FFAs.

Sorry, all you get is a hero spider with a missile port in the CT.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2014 11:46

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Nickiepoo posted:

So suddenly the Awesome, which can actually mount good numbers of PPCs but has glaring weaknesses, becomes popular. Good.

But you're not wrong either, it's just a question of intelligent balance, and we're already having a smarter talk about this than the guy who came up with 'CAN'T FIRE THING WHEN OTHER THING SOMETHING CHARGING WHAT'.

The funny thing is that they've made the awesome a ton better with the quirks they've put in that let it fit the role of a PPC boat (energy weapons generate less heat, heat dissipates faster) and they've dealt with it's huge centre torso by buffing it's armour levels. They CAN make mechs useful without hardpoint sizes and they ARE doing, but at the same time they're considering this utterly backward "NO FIRING TOO MANY WEAPONS" thing, which is pretty much doubling down on ghost heat's failings.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 22:22

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Phrosphor posted:

They are justifying the CERLL (haha what a stupid name) nerf by pointing out that Clan mechs won 90% of games when they secretly switched the matchmaker to pit IS mechs against Clan mechs. Nobody is listening though.

It's pretty great that they're doing something to correct the fact that clan poo poo is overpowered and they're getting grief for it.

Edit: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/167224-erll-nerf-erppc-nerf-refund-on-clan-pack/page__view__findpost__p__3620683

hahahahaha "What do you mean I didn't pay to win, give me a refund!"

Fil5000 fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Aug 8, 2014

# ¿ Aug 8, 2014 09:25

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

PoptartsNinja posted:

I'm late to the party, but since I'm a huge BattleSperg I just have to point out that this is false.

Omnimechs have a computer system that is designed to adapt to the weapons installed and adjust its targeting parameters / balance calculations to compensate for changes to the machine's center of gravity, etc. as needed.

The reason Clanners tend to stick to the default loadouts is because ~~the defaults are the best for the situation at hand~~ they are just as lazy and prone to slipping into 'comfortable' habits as every other human who's ever lived, and tend to favor whatever common loadout they trained with for any given machine.

Clanners also tend to shuffle machines very frequently (they almost never have a single `Mech they pilot for their entire career (For example: Vlad Ward's favorite machine wasn't the Timber Wolf even though it's the one he piloted most frequently, he preferred to pilot an Adder). They're assigned machines from the star/trinary/cluster/galaxy pool as needed) so it doesn't really help if they have a perfect custom Timber Wolf variant if the Star Commander decides they're going to be piloting an Ice Ferret for the next two missions.

Oh look, they reverted the "Beta pre-netcode-improvements PPC projectile speed increase band-aid fix" like goons suggested over a year ago as a partial balance tool to keep PPC/Gauss from being OP? I don't see that lasting.

Paul doesn't believe in using the spreadsheets to balance things when he can write complex spaghetti code instead.

That's not true. Remember how he hosed the large pulse laser completely because it's ratios of damage to heat weren't in line with the other pulse lasers?

# ¿ Aug 8, 2014 14:46

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Mjilaeck posted:

Remember when goons ruined the game for ~~spergy role-players~~ everyone?

Still not sorry we did that.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2014 16:20

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

OAquinas posted:

I think I remember another clan bullshit event we rudely interrupted (done on the summer version of that map) where a metal baby was utterly annihilated in the first second.

KDR Squad ran into another clan group around the same time (I think before we did) and did the same thing. We did it because it was funny but it served to illustrate why they should have just put private matches into the damned game.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2014 16:42

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

I didn't listen, is the summary just "Waah goons"?

# ¿ Aug 8, 2014 18:44

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

I love that Russ' reason for rolling back the CERLL ghost heat change is that it's not in line with other laser weapons. Because we must treat all weapons the same even if they're clearly different.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2014 10:16

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Oh, cool, it's yeti! I guess I just assumed you'd died or something.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2014 22:37

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

sebmojo posted:

Didn't they tweak Awesome structure hitpoints or something?

The awesome for a CT structure point boost and a couple of boosts to energy weapons (they run cooler and you cool down faster). It's a decent attempt at making them viable and interesting. As such I expect it to be reverted in the next patch.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2014 07:28

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Don Gato posted:

I remember in MW4:Mercs there were downsides to using clan tech, like poorer reliability, extra heat or cost. Other than costing real money I'm betting there's no balancing factors at all to using clan tech, it's just straight up better.

Too easy

They've made it so clan missiles fire in ripples rather than in massive salvos and their lasers have longer burn times, but I think that's it for ways clan stuff is worse than IS.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2014 07:49

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

EoRaptor posted:

Once Clan mechs are available for cbills, no one will pilot IS mechs* unless they are grinding enough to afford their first clan mech.

* Actually, the Stalker, Jenner and ECM spider would still be used. they fill rolls that the clan simply doesn't have (right now).

According to Sarna, the timber wolf costs around 25m cbills. If they stick closely enough to tabletop values (which they have for every other cost they've put in the game) then everyone's going to buy one of those with their cadet bonus. So presumably once they're available for cbills they'll nerf them into the ground.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2014 14:40

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Lemming posted:

Moving from MWO to Star Citizen seems like a good decision

Just for the infrastructure and the people. Because most of WoL seems to have migrated over there now and they have a mumble server - not because of the game because lol.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2014 14:02

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Yeti Fiasco posted:

so how do we get Word of Lowtax if you have to be the community leader? Anyone know who it is or if they even still play?

Well the most prominent, "known to be at the top" people were the likes of Anders and Brofist, but it's not like there IS any structure to speak of any more. That post AP linked should do it as that Horrace character is a known goon and I think played in a couple of rounds of RHoD so should be recognisable enough.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2014 14:31

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Drewjitsu posted:

It looks like Anders took care of it, but is on mod preview, so who knows if it's going to get through.

http://www.reddit.com/r/mwo/comments/2dhg3c/unit_preregistration_starts_today_for_founders/cjpoh8i

As long as someone that's actually playing it gets it it's all good. No sense in tying it to a structure that's already hosed off to another game.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2014 16:35

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2 Fox 2

# ¿ Aug 14, 2014 18:10

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qkzLJ7JYLY

Someone recreated the MW2 intro.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2014 08:30

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Feindfeuer posted:

As I'm only playing every other day, and only started again recently. Is it just me or is the Timberwolf made out of bullshit? I don't have the stats on hand, but it seems to have great armor and weaponry (like all the clan mechs), but it's also ridiculously fast for such a heavy battlemech. Maybe there were two of them and one was tanking/murdering and the other was rebuild for speed... but the last match I had one take quiet the punishment just to run off, with me in my Cent having no chance of catching up.

I mean, sarna.net lists a speed of 86km/h, but even would not introduce it with all its capablilities and just let it run against all mechs of equal weight in the MM.

Clan mechs in general are just nuts right now. The timber wolf and dire wolf in particular just utterly outclass things in their weight class.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2014 20:56

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Kazvall posted:

Why am I playing this? What mech should I get with my 10 mil chills? How should I commit suicide for dishonoring myself?

Because you are a mental. Wait a bit for the nova to be available for cbills and buy that. Kill yourself by overheating and shutting down (put head in oven).

# ¿ Aug 18, 2014 15:19

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Kazvall posted:

I buy mechs on looks only. Which mech is the most serviceable while being dead sexy? The nova looks faggy and I refuse to clan mech. The victory is much sweeter while piloting a piece of poo poo. This is why I use the yen-low-tee

"What should I spend my cbills on?"
"Here is an idea."
"No, here are a bunch of other criteria I didn't mention before"

YOU ARE THE WORST KAZVALL

# ¿ Aug 18, 2014 18:03

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 20:22

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Release order is the same as the tiers of the clan packs, so dire wolf is fourth.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2014 17:09

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > MechWarrior Online: Sisyphus could learn a thing or two

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