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I've flown a lot of Punishers. One of two things usually happens: 1) I joust and the punisher dies after shooting once or twice 2) I flank and the punishers can shoot everything they've got. Missile/torp punishers should always do #2. You can get away with #1 with Deathrain and bombs if you're careful and/or lucky, but even then it's better to come in from the side. I like to run a Punisher on the edge of a miniswarm so it can break away when necessary.
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Oct 20, 2015 19:45
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Came in third in the local tourney tonight! Played with this list: https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f...:;12:140:-1:-1: Highlights: Lost spectacularly to a three x-wing squad of Wes, Wedge, and Poe. Of all things. I had the worst luck with the dice this game; the only thing that rolled a single evade the entire game was Deathrain. I made a bad call and swung right when I should have swung left, which didn't help. Destroyed some Brobots. It was amazing. I only lost one of the Black Squadrons in this one. Deathrain all but soloed one of them; the killing blow was a range three shot from one of the black squadrons. Crack Shot is really good. I think I'm gonna switch up Deathrain's bombs for Redline's missiles to see if it synergizes better.
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Oct 25, 2015 02:35
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Anatharon posted:TIE Punishers look cool, are they actually worth getting? I love the Punisher. I think it's my favorite Imperial ship. Over the weekend, I flew something very similar to this at a local tournament. https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f...:;12:140:-1:-1: This weekend, I used Seismic Charges and Twin Iron Engines instead of the Proton Bombs (didn't own any), at 98 points total. Deathrain performed admirably and, in all but one game, was able to drop all of his bombs. He more than pulled his weight. And the crack shot swarm was able to push through damage when it really counted. Took out a brobots list and only lost one of the TIEs. Does anyone have any thoughts on some way to make this list better? I've thought of using Redline + missiles instead of Deathrain, but I'm unsure if using one missile/torpedo would be better than a bomb plus a regular attack.
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Oct 26, 2015 02:51
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You two have kind of hit the problem I have with Redline. To be effective, you gotta spend a lot of points on him. Enough points that it eats into his escort. With either of those lists, I think the first joust would decide the entire game. Lose Redline early? It's over. Lose a couple of TIEs? It's over. If I were facing either of those lists, I would make Redline my priority. Kill him before he gets more than a couple shots off, and I win. Punishers can't be the priority target. They're tough, but they're not that tough. The lack of defense dice means they cannot withstand concentrated fire. I've only run him a few times, but I really feel that Redline would be better with something like Redline + Soontir + VaderShuttle. Or something along those lines, where there's no good target. The ones you ignore will gently caress you up. Three TIES aren't scary the way Soontir is once he gets on your rear end. I think some variation of that list made it to the top 8 in the New Zealand nationals.
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Oct 26, 2015 07:20
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Kai Tave posted:I played some games against a list that was Deathrain + Soontir + Carnor Jax and yeah, it worked out pretty decently for him, though we both agreed that Cluster Mines are a cool idea but kind of poo poo in practice (six red dice! That only do damage on regular hit results, so have fun rolling three blanks, two eyes, and a crit) and that it would work better with Conner Nets along with Proximity Mines. Deathrain is my favorite Punisher pilot. Connor nets are nice but I find that I'm usually better off with Proxy mines in terms of raw damage output. I hate Cluster mines; I rarely hit with more than one of the clusters, and the damage output is pitiful. They're better at area denial but that's it. Frankly, if you're not dropping the bomb right on top of someone, you're doing it wrong. And for that, Proxy mines are better in any realistic scenario. Personally, I tend to run one on-action mine (like Proxy, Connor Net, or Cluster) and one on-reveal bomb (like ion, seismic, or proton) so that I have the flexibility to drop a bomb if I end up anywhere near the enemy. Juke looks like it'll be a seriously fun upgrade and it fits very well on Carnor. Although I'm not sure if it'll be better than PTL on any interceptor...
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Oct 26, 2015 08:19
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Geisladisk posted:Problem with Proton bombs is that they always explode after everyone has moved, not on contact, so they don't let you fully utilize Deathtrain's ability. Put Proxy or Cluster mines and Advanced Scopes on Deathtrain, move first, and slam-dunk bombs on people all game long. I don't put the Enhances Scopes on Deathrain. TLTs, swarms, and other numerous enemies tend to move before him, so you know if you're going to hit them with the on-reveal bomb or not. They're also pretty useful to deter arc dodges from coming in behind you. Soontir is going to keep his distance rather than eat a proxy mine, if he's smart. The assorted Aces move after Deathrain, so you can still slam dunk that proxy mine in their face or directly in their path. One on-action mine, one on-reveal bomb, and extra munitions without enhanced scopes allows the most flexibility.  quote:What's wrong with the Y-wing? Especially the scum one is a pretty good platform, for ordnance or otherwise. Ys aren't terrible for ordnance, but they suffer from not being dedicated ordnance platforms. They're typically just better at something else for the points.
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Oct 26, 2015 15:28
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Endman posted:I played two games today, one with Redline and one with Deathrain. I usually don't bother with Autothrusters. Advanced Sensors are nice, but also not super required. I'll run them if I have points to spare. The real thing to consider is what you run with Deathrain. He's not tanky enough to be an "anchor" ship. You have to have a better target or a screen of TIE fighters. I run Deathrain (Proxy Mine, Proton Bombs, Extra Munitions) alongside a miniswarm of Howlrunner and three Black Squadron pilots, all with Crack Shot. Typically I put the swarm on one side of the map, and then place Deathrain a few inches towards the center, just far enough the enemy has to choose which one to attack. Whichever one they attack, I punish them for it with the other.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:33
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That's my current list and it's so fun. Try a Connor net if you have trouble with arc dodgers.
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Oct 29, 2015 19:23
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Strobe posted:I'm seriously looking forward to running: Free up one point and you could throw Biggs in there. Probably drop Lone Wolf for VI on Poe. Unkillable gods you can't even shoot for a couple of rounds.
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Oct 30, 2015 05:45
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Endman posted:Oh yeah, that's how I managed to burn down Carnor almost immediately on contact. Chucking a Connor Net out the front right into his path was hilarious. Ion Bombs are hilarious in the right situation. I've been known to ion my whole swarm in the right situation, just to keep them right on the enemy's tail. People also don't expect them. I've run more than one super Dash or Falcon off the board with them.
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Oct 30, 2015 05:47
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Chill la Chill posted:Ahahahaha. So FFG announces that for the time being, you can choose whatever deck you want. I think this is a great thing cuz new players who want to try a tournament will show up having bought one of the starter sets without a clue about legality or anything and would be disappointed if they were told their deck was illegal. Use whatever is best for your list, it'll keep more options open. We've a guy at our local store, has been flying Fat Han since it became a thing. He absolutely loathes everything in the latest wave and all of the new changes to the FAQ and Tourney Rules. The new damage deck is stupid. The MOV rules (half points for big ships) makes large ships 100% useless. The damage deck ruins everything it touches. The T-70 is overpowered. Crack Shot is bullshit of the highest order. The TIE/fo is too cheap. I could go on. It's pretty sad, really. The only thing he knows how to fly is Fat Han and, now that it's not longer overpowered, he is completely and utterly lost. He has no clue what to do, what to fly, now that there's not one single overpowered build that wins in 90% of scenarios. All of his railing against the new stuff comes down "I can no longer win with minimal effort". He also insists, continually, that the easiest thing to fly in the game is a swarm. He's weird.
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Oct 30, 2015 17:01
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Tekopo posted:I've been playing for a long time now and I still dunno how to fly a swarms. Swarms are hard to fly well. I know, right? Chill la Chill posted:Yeah I don't think there's many ramifications beyond "new players won't get screwed" and "ace pilots take new deck, generics take old." (Han and 3Zs probably want the new deck.) Yeah, Fat Han is still really strong. He's just not overpowered anymore. Which is nothing but a good thing.
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Oct 30, 2015 17:07
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Tekopo posted:Fat Han still good and at a nice level meta-wise. I've been saying it, but currently the meta is the best that it has been since the launch of the Phantom. Agreed, 100% I've fallen in love with my Deathrain + Crack Shot miniswarm list. It's just so much fun to fly. I've yet to decide which variant of Deathrain I like more, though. Proxy Mines + Proton Bombs: https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f...:;12:140:-1:-1: Proxy Mines + Connor Net + Enhanced Scopes: https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f...:;12:140:-1:-1: The second is better at handling aces, especially Soontir. All I need is an opportunity to get somewhere near the ace, and then it's Connor Net time. However, the first is much more well-rounded and can take out swarmy lists with relative ease. A proton bomb in the middle of a TIE swarm is not pretty.
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Oct 30, 2015 17:16
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Pierzak posted:Hello xgoons, the wargamer community is collectively trying to make me gay by pushing wangs down my throat. In case I try it out and like it (a real risk of that since I loved Wings of War etc.) I have a few questions. Assume I want to play Empire exclusively and that I'm not a SW fan, just here for the game. You're overthinking it. Get the core set. Fly both sides a bit. Which one suits you more? Buy more of that. There's a decent buying guide over on the Reddit forum: http://www.reddit.com/r/XWingTMG/wiki/faq/buying And lastly, there are very few cookie-cutter builds these days. The meta is quite diverse now, finally, after a long period of being dominated by two ship turret builds.
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Oct 30, 2015 17:23
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Booyah- posted:Yeah, balancing via errata would be terrible. I'm not sure how they should handle it, but eventually the design space is going to run out. Eventually--and they probably have years left--I'd expect them to re-release a new version of X-Wing like they have for several of their card games.
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Oct 30, 2015 21:19
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Hahahahah can you imagine the outrage if you had to PAY for errata'd components?
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Oct 30, 2015 23:07
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Endman posted:I'm so pumped to run this: I have a very similar list pre-made also https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v3!s!163:152,143:27:15:;18:152:-1:6:;12:140:-1:-1:;12:140:-1:-1:;12:140:-1:-1: Inquisitor has the Thread Tracers and Howlrunner is there instead of the Gamma Sq.
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Oct 31, 2015 01:17
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Kai Tave posted:So here's a mad idea inspired by ConfusedUs' Black Squadron mini-swarm list. I'm not so sure that 3x A-Wings, even with crack shot, is worth the points. I found that the sweet spot with the TIE crack shots is four of them, and one of those must be Howlrunner. In a practical setup, 3x Black Sq + Howl, all with crack shot, will take out a Y-wing, B-wing, or anything of approximately equal tankiness in a single round, far more often than not, even at range three. This includes aces such as Poe, Miranda, Wedge, etc, which can be invaluable. Even if I lose during the joust, I can usually take one out. Trading one TIE for an enemy ace is well worth it. In fact, I usually HOPE for range 3 for the first volley, because I'm almost guaranteed a second head-on joust round, usually against an enemy who has around a third of his points. I've won all five of my last five games like this. By time the swarm is engaged at range 1 (or is past the first joust), Deathrain is on someone's rear end, dropping bombs like it's going out of style. But if I start with just three of the TIEs, life gets a whole lot harder. I can't see three A-wings doing much better.
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Nov 1, 2015 18:16
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Any predictions for what we'll see in Worlds top 16? My guesses? At least one Fat Han. Multiple Palpshuttle + 2 aces (probably Soontir + Vader) No 4x TLT, but certainly at least one list with two of them. Some kind of Crack Shot swarm or mini-swarm The TIE Punisher will make an appearance (probably Redline in a palpshuttle build)
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Nov 2, 2015 17:52
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Deviant posted:I'm still pretty new to the game, explain? I have fewer points so I can choose to go second, then I'd just use boost to dodge arc? Precisely
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Nov 2, 2015 20:54
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Swagger Dagger posted:I think I would have to avoid playing a KKK list, just on principle. As long as you don't also use the SS target locks, I think you're still ok.
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Nov 5, 2015 07:44
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ConfusedUs posted:Any predictions for what we'll see in Worlds top 16? There's still 3-4 lists I haven't seen, but it looks like I missed out on the Fat Han and Punisher guesses and nailed the rest. There is a Decimator in the top 16 though, of all things, which I absolutely did not expect.
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Nov 5, 2015 17:48
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tatertot posted:I flew the vader+crack shot swarm that was the second game on stream yesterday. I'm glad I didn't embarrass myself. It was all downhill after that loss. I faced 3 chewies with gunner, predator, c3p0, falcon title. Even without engine upgrades I just couldn't deal with them. Ugh, that's rough buddy. I imagine you, more or less, lost one TIE every round you were in range of the falcon? I run a miniswarm with Crack Shot and the falcon is the one ship I have the most trouble with myself. (That's why I try to ion it off the board with Deathrain and connor nets)
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Nov 5, 2015 18:12
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hoiyes posted:A 4 thug with TLT and unhinged came in 8th, and another 4 Y variation came in 15th (3 Grays with TLT and title, one with stressbot, and a Gold with autoblaster) Yeah I missed that 8th slot. I guess 50% ain't bad for guesses. I really didn't see that Decimator making it though. Zero evade dice is rough.
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Nov 5, 2015 18:27
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AndyElusive posted:The commentators for the Worlds live stream are pretty great and educational. Then again, they're employees of FFG and getting paid so I suppose that's to be expected. I don't know about that. Half the time they're answering random questions instead of commenting on what's happening in the game. Who just shot who? What was the result? What did that crit say? I don't know because they're talking about anything except what's happening. Random questions would be best in the planning phase, I feel.
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Nov 5, 2015 20:50
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Deviant posted:So if I can only bring core set asteroids to a tournament, why do the YT-2400/decimatior/raider/etc come with more? You can bring any three rocks you want, from either core set. The debris from the 2400 and decimator are legal too.
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Nov 5, 2015 20:51
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Deviant posted:But not the Raider? I'm confused as to why this is so weird. I dunno. are there rocks in the raider? You can't use the Raider itself in a 100 point match (you could use it in plce of 3 rocks in epic, though)
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Nov 5, 2015 20:59
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I think that 3K list is going to need more finesse than it looks like. The stress only happens out the front arc, and only at range 2. Get behind them, or out of the range 2 band, and they're just tanky TLTs, which aren't that hard to overcome.
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Nov 6, 2015 00:05
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Chill la Chill posted:Eh that's the reason why I've never liked these types of lists. This, the 4BZ, the old Biggs walks the dogs were all just piles of good stuff. The Fat Han list actually uses an escort and is quite different in the bait-and-switch play style. These 4-5 ship rebel lists are like the Jund deck in MTG: just a pile of Good Stuff TM that'll get the job done and it tends to be boring. Team Covenant did an interview with Paul, and he listed off the purpose of each ship in the list. Poe was his Ace TLT Y-wing was for consistent damage Stressbot Y-wing was to counter aces and the Z95 was because he had 12 points left. His goal was to build a list that had an answer for any other list. I'd say he succeeded admirably.
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Nov 6, 2015 16:05
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Deviant posted:So I decided I am going to play in baby's first x-wing tournament this weekend. Never joust with Soontir. Always, always arc dodge. He will evaporate in a joust.
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Nov 6, 2015 20:08
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I don't think they'll have trouble coming up with 2-3 ships per faction every 6-9 months for a very long time. Especially now that the Disney Star Wars train is rolling.
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Nov 10, 2015 13:43
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grassy gnoll posted:Out of curiosity, have you ever managed to kill something with a non-procket A-wing? 'cause I sure haven't. I had a prototype pilot once take on Vader and a couple of TIEs. He took out one TIE, damaged another, and forced Vader to drive across some proxy mines to get the kill. It was a total fluke though, I couldn't roll anything but hits and evades.
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Nov 12, 2015 01:38
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Endman posted:I'm running this at my League this evening: "Genius" always cracks me up becuase any time you use it, you're guaranteed to be hit by the bomb. Not very smart!
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Nov 12, 2015 01:50
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ZenMastaT posted:I was thinking of putting together a Redline squad since I like to try and get time on every ship at some point. I know the common problem with Redline or any Punisher is loading them down with points since they're pretty easy to blow up - but the advice I've heard is to try and screen them with a mini-swarm and to try to stick to range 3 where autothrusters can potentially help a little. You're correct with your first paragraph. You can't let the Punisher be the priority target. They have a hefty chunk of HP, but will still die in a couple rounds of concentrated fire. If they die before they fire their munitions, you wasted a third of your list, or more. Running with a miniswarm is an effective way to do this, for sure! Especially the Howl + 3x Crack Shots miniswarm. If you also give Howl a Crack Shot (and you should), that swarm is 64 points. So now you have to fit a Redline in with the 36 or less points. First, drop the autothrusters unless you are facing a lot of non-TLT turrets. TLT's going to get past your pitiful one dice regardless of autothrusters or not. Your Redline is now down to 37 points. You can free up one more point by switching Concussions for Cluster missiles. Cluster Missiles are the best thing for Redline, period. I fly this list a lot, either with Redline or with Deathrain. I slightly prefer the Deathrain variant, but it just suits my style better. I'm too impatient to hang back with Redline like I should! But in both cases, I tend to fly my Punisher and the swarm separate from each other. I start with the swarm in one corner, and then I place the Punisher in the middle-ish of the board, depending on enemy and asteroid placement. The idea is that the enemy has to choose what to attack: the swarm or the Punisher. Then you swoop in with the other and wreck them. A couple rounds of cluster missile fire will take down most small ships and put a dent in the big ones!
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Nov 15, 2015 08:06
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KO Derf posted:psst, concussions and clusters are the same cost. So they are, so they are. Have to find another way to free a point. I think I dropped crack shot from Howlrunner last time I ran that list.
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Nov 15, 2015 08:25
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ZenMastaT posted:Yeah thanks for the advice, I figured Concussion Missiles since they're available at range 3 - that with the Autothrusters would make an alright combo if I could keep the ship at the back, far from enemy guns. It probably isn't doable though, you're right. I like the crackshot swarm and then walking the punisher in behind - I'll probably try that. Here are a few variants of the Redline + Miniswarm list that I've tried. This first one uses the unreleased Thread Tracers to buff up the Crack Shot swarm. In this, you fly Redline within the swarm for the first pass, then (if necessary) break him off to finish off priority targets with the cluster missiles. https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f...:;12:140:-1:-1: The Thread Tracers may be redundant with Howlrunner present; I have considered dropping her in favor of a 4th Black Squadron, then giving Redline some kind of bomb to deter arc dodgers, which are easily this list's biggest weakness. The second list is designed for the more hammer/anvil approach where you fly Redline to the side of the swarm at range 2-ish, and punish the other player for attacking either one. You can drop out the concussion missiles for any 4-5 point munition of your choice. I really like Assault Missiles for the splash damage, but you could just double up on the Cluster Missles, or use Concussions, or a torpedo... https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f...:;12:140:-1:-1: The big problem here is that you have neither Howlrunner nor Thread Tracers to make the swarm dangerous. Two attack dice are going to have a hard time with high-agility targets without either of those. I've considered just dropping them all to Academy Pilots in order to fit a 5th ship in. In both cases, you have to make compromises to stay under 100. I think Redline costs like 1 or 2 points too many to run with the (in my opinion) the ideal Howlrunner + 3 Black Sq miniswarm, all with Crack Shot. Deathrain, on the other hand, is a few points less and you can run him with the ideal swarm. I've had far more luck with Deathrain than Redline. Here are the two builds I use with Deathrain. First up is my anti-aces Deathrain list. https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f...:;12:140:-1:-1: Enhanced Scopes + Connor Net allows me a more-or-less guaranteed ionization of an enemy ship if I start anywhere near it. I either drop it in front of them, or directly on them, or whatever. It's really effective against enemy aces, but leads to fairly predictable moves on Deathrain's part. And next is my general-purpose Deathrain list. It drops the enhanced scopes and Connor Net in favor of Proton Bombs. https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f...:;12:140:-1:-1: Proton bombs are great for disrupting enemy formations. They're also good at deterring enemy aces; they tend to stay further away to avoid being caught in the blast. In both cases, the Proxy Mines are there for (a high chance of) unavoidable damage on any enemy I am near. I love them a lot. Every now and then they let me down, that's a risk, but at least I get to shoot after laying them!
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Nov 16, 2015 03:09
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Kai Tave posted:I think you can squeeze by with dropping Crack Shot off Howlrunner, and while Thread Tracers look nice I actually had a surprising moment with Redline and Ion Bombs today where my opponent forgot what they were, boosted Boba Fett right over the bomb template, then flew off the board next turn Bombs are often unexpected. Most people don't know how to fly against them and often make mistakes like that. In my first tournament--when I was still ironing out my Deathrain list--I managed to force a Super Dash and a fully loaded Hound's Tooth off the board with ion bombs. Sadly, there's a bit too situational to be really useful. I tend to do far better with proton bombs or seismic charges. But in the RIGHT situation, the ion bombs are so satisfying.
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Nov 16, 2015 04:40
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I think 3x Black Squads with Crack Shot, Howlrunner, and Redline with some bombs and Cluster missiles is a pretty solid crew.
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Kai Tave posted:the most expensive upgrades in the game which is kind of nuts for all the hoops you need to jump through to use them. Ordnance.txt
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Nov 17, 2015 00:29
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Kai Tave posted:It's not ALL ordnance though. Like, Cluster Missiles? Pretty well costed imo. 3 points for two 3-red attacks at range 1-2, yeah okay. Proton Bombs are pricey at 5 but can potentially kill some ships right through their shields. I'd say that even Proton Torpedoes and Concussion Missiles aren't as bad as APTs in that regard, someone like Wedge or Poe can get a lot of mileage out of a Protorp. I think there are exactly two missiles/torpedoes in the game worth their price across the board: Proton Rockets work on any 3-agility ship, and Flechette Torpedoes are cheap enough to take "just in case". Thread Tracers will make a third, once released. Cluster missiles are almost right. Cluster missiles are amazing on Redline, worth taking on someone who can generate free focus or target locks, and a bit too expensive for everyone else. Two unmodified 3 dice attacks vs defenses just isn't that great. Certainly not worth 4 points. Of the remaining missiles and torpedoes, they're just a huge drain on your action economy for too little return, unless you're on a pilot that buffs them somehow, like Redline or Lt. Blount. However, I feel that bombs and mines are all well-costed now that Extra Munitions is a thing. Except maybe Cluster Mines; I think they should be the same price as Proxy mines. ConfusedUs fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 00:52
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Kai Tave posted:Is there really a point to putting Advanced SLAM on a K-Wing if you don't have any on-action bombs to take advantage of it? Defensive tokens or target locks for the next round
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Nov 17, 2015 02:40
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