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bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Mr SoupTeeth posted:

Who knows it might kick rear end a year from now but dear God PCars needs to come out already and not be another Grid.
Anyone who's in on the testing builds of Project CARS (I didn't discover it till post-fundraising rounds) use a controller on PC? Does it feel good? Might get a wheel at some point, but now is not that point so I'll be rockin' my PS3 controller like I have been for other PC racing games (was a big Gran Turismo fan for 1~5 before the lack of damage/AI competition overwhelmed my continued interest).

I'd hope it's good since it's also coming out for consoles, but the console/PC controls might not be perfect control translations (or consoles might have some assists by default that PC doesn't) so I'd like confirmation from someone who has been playing it.

If so, I should probably get on preordering to get the bonus cars and help:

holocaust bloopers posted:

PROJECT CARS GO GOLD ALREADY


gently caress

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bUm
Jan 11, 2011

holocaust bloopers posted:

You can wait. There's not much game there.
This is good news to me. Kind of also wanted to jump the gun to stifle the wanting to play Project CARS right now, but it sounded pretty content light. $32 isn't bad for what should eventually become a good full-fledged rally game, but I'm hopeful of being able to grab it for cheaper (with more content implemented) on Steam Summer or Winter Sales after my Project CARS love has died down a bit rather than it being a week long stop-gap game.

That said, I loved the old Colin McRae games and found the entire DiRT endeavor to be a huge disappointment so I hope DiRT Rally continues in the right direction.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011
I tried to stay strong on not grabbing DiRT Rally and I failed. I don't regret this failure; I had a blast playing it for hours.

OhsH posted:



here hope this helps
It doesn't hurt, but, like many rally games in the past, that info only helps so much because of how sections actually play out where some turns are so short and easily skip-able by going straight through you hardly notice them and others actually require a lot more or less braking than one would expect for [turn #]. Kind of wish you could go in and alter the notes (change a 4->3; a 3, 4 to a 3 long; etc.) for turns you don't feel are accurately represented for your driving style.

Some general comments after a long evening of play:
- I've only used the 60's Mini so far (aside from doing the daily race with the Stratos... I didn't need Traction Control assist on for the Mini despite using a controller, I might for the RWD ones because I was spinning all over the place), but it seemed alarmingly flip-happy on bumps (notably the rough-ish awkward jagged slopes that appear fairly frequently on the offroad [especially Wales] stages) that don't feel like they should. Not sure if this is a bug or just because it's so light. I even managed to get serious air (~1.5 Mini's high) hitting a ~half-tire-sized rock that's in the road on one of the Wales sections; a rock that big would dent up the front end pretty bad, but sending you flying seemed out of place, even at ~50 MPH. I hope I'm not alone in thinking things seem a bit excessively flip-happy. :ohdear:

- The AI difficulty settings seem out of whack. I'd like to think I'm above average at racing games, but I needed a basically flawless run to even win a stage in the Career events considered "Open" difficulty. I did some testing in the Event mode to see which 60's car I preferred and get a feel for things before starting the money-on-the-line Career and Professional difficulty seemed on par with Open (least for first place, maybe the lower rankings were much worse times). I guess working hard to be maintain second place in the standings is better than trampling the competition by a huge margin in that it pushes me to go faster (and, thereby, wreck more spectacularly).

- The way it instantly resets and penalizes you for touching the tape around people (even if you won't hit them) is really annoying. Same goes for only giving 9 seconds to get back on track despite possible re-joins taking longer in some situations.

- Lack of tutorial/assistance/section info (being able to look at the individual splits to see things like road composition, elevation change, or other useful info) as yet is a bit disappointing. I guess it doesn't matter since you don't seem to be able to pick tire types yet, but I can't for the life of me remember how light/medium/heavy gravel impacts driving from the old Colin McRae days.

Lastly, anyone got any tips beyond the in-game info on how to setup your car? Generally from the Default I went lower gear ratio (seemed pretty necessary with the Mini at least because that little 100 HP really needs the acceleration help; I still fairly rarely hit the top speed for my gearing [low 80's MPH]), went more balanced with brakes, and went a little softer with suspension/dampers. Sometimes I'd find my car bouncing on bumps (see the above point on flipping/car feeling light) and just uncontrollably bouncing my way off the racing surface before I could slow down or take any other corrective measures to prevent it. I don't know if, based on their explanations, this was because I didn't go soft enough to absorb the bumps or because I went too soft and it had to do with lacking car stability that let me be pushed into the bumps in the first place rather than holding a better line. So, yeah, if anyone feels like they've got a good grasp on car setups (or a link to someone who does), some tips would be appreciated.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Mootallica posted:

Is it worth picking up Dirt Rally if you just have a controller? I have a wheel, but the only time I can use it is when everybody else is asleep - and it's pretty noisy with the FFB.
Seconding a yes if you enjoy rally games. Been using a DS3 emulating a 360 controller and, while I'd feel much better off with a wheel (especially with how narrow some stages get [barely car width at points], finer handling control would be great), a controller is workable to a reasonable level. I even managed to do fairly well with Traction Control (TC) and Stability Control (SC) assists turned off until I got past the 1960's cars that are FWD and have really low power (the 1970's RWD cars were spinning constantly till I bit the bullet and turned on traction/stability control). I believe I settled at ABS 3 (5 by default, I noticed negligible difference turning it down), TC 3, and SC 4 (can set any to off or 1-5 where 1 is weakest, 5 is strongest) for now. You do get more money in the Career Mode if you don't use assists, but, unless you have truly exceptional agility on that ~1cm for trigger/joystick control, you'll probably be better off with them on to a setting you find comfortable.

FWIW: I managed 85~90 percentile in yesterday's Daily Event so a controller (with assists) seems reasonably capable (granted the daily events being no restarts means they're more about not crashing hard than pushing things to the absolute limit). I felt none too shabby about getting my controller run in at 8 minutes 12 seconds when the top guy, a pro rally driver as mentioned above, was ~6:56 (presumably with a nice wheel setup).

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Endymion FRS MK1 posted:

I'm going to be the sole Sierra in this rally, aren't I?
I test drove both in a Custom Event before picking (needed to know which I wanted to buy for Career mode anyway). The Sierra with the extra weight felt a lot more in control, but the power difference just wasn't enough to make up for the weight difference, at least on the stage of Greece I tested both on (heavy gravel might have been a factor in the Sierra feeling so much more bogged down by weight). I wasn't feeling the BMW much either, but on my test stage I was running a full ten seconds better with it (on a short, ~4 minute stage), even if it is sketchier/harder to drive. I have a feeling 1980's cars will be my least played grouping (least with the current options).

In related news: I finally tested out some Group B cars and it made me giddy with the ridiculous power compared to the 60's/70's/80's I've used so far. Death traps are so fun when you don't actually die when careening off a massive cliff. :unsmith:

Munko posted:

I can't actually believe how fun Dirt Rally is even at this early stage. There's a few rough edges and the stages can get a bit samey after a while but it's just so drat satisfying to nail a stage.
It is impressive; first time in awhile to stumble into a game I just don't want to put down.

The "bit samey" is kind of getting to me though. I feel it's a little disingenuous of them to claim 36 stages when many (all?) of the longer stages include the entirety of the shorter stages within them. Seems like a big corner-cut to pick out a relatively small chunk of the rally, lay 12 stages over it that include plenty of overlap, and call it good. On the plus side: it helps make the longer stages much easier when you're 3/8 of the way through the run and realize you just passed the start point of the previous stage and the rest of the stage will be identical to what you just did the prior stage.

Be great if at some point they open the door to crowd-sourcing rally stage creation or something so we can get a lot more variety (not sure how much in-house capacity they have to stage creation, but I'm doubtful they have plans to revisit/continue adding stages to existing locations). Part of the fun of rally racing games is not being familiar enough with the stages that you can ignore your co-driver for lengthy periods because you already know what's coming from doing the stage too much.

Daimo posted:

How are you guys actually good with xbox controllers? I spend all of the course fishtailing around and braking to a standstill if it gets out of control. I hear "jump maybe" and I think "jump: no" :smith:
Did you turn on some assists? I managed the 1960's cars fine without TC and SC, but the 1970's cars necessitated turning them on to stop spinning out constantly because the trigger doesn't have fine-enough throttle control to feather it easily. I settled in with both at 3 and both RWD classes are plenty manageable (I occasionally still spin, but usually it's with the help of bumps/walls/ridges instead of just too much power at the rear).

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Endymion FRS MK1 posted:

Sooo, how do I see the league standings? It only shows things related to the current event.
I think we've just been doing single-event things so far so there hasn't been any standings (whoever wins the event wins the "season"). Don't think there's a way to look back to previous "seasons" that the league has had yet because Early Access.

So, direct answer: you don't (as far as I can tell).

Maybe next "season", later this week, we could try two events and see how their fledgling league system handles it.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011
Digging through the Steam Discussion I learned a thing: a Dev confirmed that, despite what the UI says, cars in Custom Events do not have upgrades and perform according to vehicle unlocks in career. This further opens the discussion that this might also be the case in Leagues/Online Daily (which the original question did not ask about and the Dev hasn't confirmed/denied).

Just figured I'd give everyone a heads up that you're getting drastically reduced specs than what is showing (look at the specs in career if you want to know what you're actually using). Bought the Group B Peugeot yesterday and, by default, it actually weighs like 2200-some and only has like 374 (?) HP, not 480 HP.

Endymion FRS MK1 posted:

edit: Wow, you can't quit an event. I started the clubman, massively screwed up the first stage, figured I can do better. So I abandon that event and later the whole championship. Now I'm back at open difficulty. What the gently caress.
Pretty sure the current Career Events function as: goes up a difficulty level if you're in the top 3 at the end of the previous and goes down a level if you aren't. I kind of wish it didn't and just gave you a choice: I've managed to maintain top three and am now in Elite. Every difficulty increase adds two more stages so I am now going through every rally with ten stages and am trapped in the same car and on the same rally for a really long time.

Get top three in the Open and you'll be bumped up again.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Munko posted:

Nailed the first stage to get myself a nice safety net :smuggo: I find it amazing how many people are able to do well in Dirt Rally with a controller, I don't think I could even finish a shakedown using one. Even with a wheel I struggle to be as precise as I'd like.
I was depressed when I saw 37 seconds down after finishing stage 1 because I felt I had a decent run. I then went to the next screen to see I was a little under 5 seconds off second place and you'd just blown everyone completely out of the water.

I think a big part of the time loss (between goon league and running my elite career event Monte Carlo afterwards) is that TC/SC is murdering ability to get through the ice covered areas since they prevent acceleration until straightening out while you with wheel (and presumably assists off?) can power through without assists repeatedly slowing you to sub-30MPH on the ice. Does anyone else feel this might be the case? If so I will probably resort to switching my assist settings (feel good on the other rallies and tarmac areas) for ice sections in the future.

Dirt Rally seems like it'd still be pretty intense even with a wheel, but that's not in the cards at the moment so I get extra hard mode. :smith:

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

hopterque posted:

I don't use traction or stability control and I play with a 360 controller. My favorite car is the lancia stratos too.

Sure, you spin out once in a while, but it's not super hard to feather a throttle with a controller or anything.
Have to experiment since I'm definitely driving differently (better) than when I first turned them on since I've weened down aggression to more appropriate levels rather than luck-of-the-drawing my way through some parts of stages. Using a DS3 so the triggers are a bit different than 360 though and RWD seemed really rough. I've been using my Peugeot 205 mostly the last few days though and the current settings are probably overkill for 4WD.

Jehde posted:

I didn't have time to participate in the latest goon rally. Could the goon rallies possibly be open for longer than 2 days?

Edit: Nevermind! Seen the new rally is similar and open for slightly longer. Still, is it possible to post them for any longer? I dunno if the thread prefers these constant rallies or not, I know atleast one goon prefers it as is so. :shrug:
Given that it's up to 42 members, pretty sure a majority haven't been finishing them for one reason or another. Been playing a lot so it hasn't been an issue, but I'd generally agree that they seem to be popping off pretty quickly. Not sure if it's for better or worse: it keeps things moving along so no one forgets about it at least.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

quaunaut posted:

The Audi Sport quattro Rallye.
If the daily today was it fully upgraded something just doesn't add up because that felt a bit more sluggish than my partially upgraded Group A Lancia that's running 280 HP at ~2700 lbs when the Quattro claims 400 HP at ~2100 lbs. They've said the Custom Events don't have the upgrades on the car despite the UI showing the upgraded numbers so maybe they put the daily in today without upgrades and the UI still showed them?

If that is upgraded, it ought to get pretty much murdered by anything else Group B (and probably literally bugged) because the daily with the Metro and my mostly upgraded Peugeot both completely blow today's daily out of the water.

In related news: the Sport Quattro, according to Wikipedia, had 444 HP in the first version, the upgraded one produced 470 (official documents, but 500+ tested) HP, and the final ones produced pumped out 591 HP at the factory. Why does the in-game top out at 400 HP that was lower than any of the possible Sport options (and higher than the non-Sport options)?

Poking around Wikipedia also led me to looking at other Group B cars and apparently there were some even more ridiculous prototypes (possibly Group S before it was also cancelled when Group B was?) in the works like the Toyota 222D: "The race-ready car weighed around 750 kilograms (1,650 lb) and its [...] engine was reported to produce as much as 750 horsepower." :vince: I thought my Peugeot 205 currently 430 HP at ~2000 lbs was frightening. I suddenly kind of hope they eventually probe "what if" cars. Apparently Ferrari was also looking to get meaningfully into the rally game; what a different world rally racing would've been if not for the Group B tragedies causing it to be shut down.

ManicJason posted:

I still did the daily :q:
I'd hope so, it's easy credits. If you finish without getting a time penalty (and maintain a not completely atrocious pace), then you are pretty much guaranteed to be within the top tier.

Also, does that bug exist in both interior cameras? I don't use the camera lock setting (I assume you do since the hood cam is the best otherwise), but by the description it allows either cockpit or dash.

bUm fucked around with this message at 08:28 on May 9, 2015

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

quaunaut posted:

Finally raced hard enough to get upgraded to Elite from Group B. The idea that I might get to the top on a XBox One controller is pretty awesome.
Fully upgraded Peugeot 205 made it surprisingly easy to take the number 1 spot (twice since I reached full upgrades after the first event of the series; I finished first in the first one as well, but it was much closer) in a Master's Championship for me with a controller. I was top by like two minutes over second place by the end of the 12 stages and that was even making modest mistakes here and there.

Pretty sure the game AI is not as difficult as the playerbase initially thought and the AI cars just have full upgrades right away, putting the player at a massive disadvantage so you pretty much need flawless runs to compete until you catch up on upgrades.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

njsykora posted:

Loads of other little changes to career too, might end up restarting that mode just so I can spend my money on something other than engineer slots.
Just race more to get more money again? It's not like you start with a spectacularly large sum that was squandered on crew slots (although it is pretty annoying they couldn't reimburse the 300~350k dropped there). Besides, money gets easier going up (kind of... I think Pro, maybe Elite, Events are actually peak money per time invested), the 60's cars that you can start with are pretty much the worst for getting money again in (since they're so much slower than anything else).

Haven't loaded up to see the changes first hand, but the list doesn't entice me heavily, mostly just touch-up fixes to pretty minor issues. Also really disappointed there's not even a single modernish Pikes Peak car like the Suzuki Escudo, let alone an actual new one, because I was kind of hoping to get a stab at some of the absurd greater than 1 HP per kg things that have been par for the course since the mid-90's and instead we get a bunch of 80's hill climb cars to go with the unpaved version and zero cars to go with the paved version that they brag about being the first game to yet implement it. :confused: :smith:

Will probably dabble a bit with this update, but I'll probably keep it mostly shelved (played the three base rallies ad nauseam since they're really only two rally stages apiece chopped into 12 pieces... I hope to all hopes they open up fan stage creation at some point) in favor of PCars for my racing fix like I have been after a couple weeks of intense play on Dirt.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

xzzy posted:

That's interesting, especially for the price, but the stand looks super wobbly and I'm not sure how I'd deal with the pedals.
He posts some pics of how he sets it up on page 3 of that thread. Looks functional, but not ideal (stand parts in the way of comfortable pedal use). That said, most DIY ones look much nicer, but, for an easy stowing away option at $30, it doesn't seem like a bad find.

I doubt it's wobbly if it's designed for shop use since that'd be a notable safety hazard.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Harminoff posted:

So I see that beamng.drive is out on steam, thinking of picking it up. Is there fun to be had or is it mostly just a tech demo right now?
Cool to see they've finally hit a release-worthy milestone. Never was interested at the possibility of paying for it, but hopefully them hitting a release means we're getting closer to other games looking into the possibility of utilizing aspects of their physics model since it seems like it has pretty cool potential for any game where destructive physics can play a role.

I don't think BeamNG is trying to make anything that isn't always going to be basically a tech demo. They're probably just releasing it for QA purposes, money on the side, and press/attention so other companies take notice (apparently, googling a bit, the movie industry has been interested so they can prototype stunts better beforehand without destroying actual cars) and are interested in paying much larger sums to use their physics engine.

wolrah posted:

Yeah, the beam physics model is excellent but their tires are all greased hockey pucks.
Seems kind of weak to push a super detailed physics model that has really poor physics with respect to the friction on wheels.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Keket posted:

I loving hate Monaco, but these new Germany tracks are loving amazing and i really have to give it to the devs they're doing an amazing job, cant wait until the end of the month when it comes out. If you wanna sneaky peek, here's the stream i did yesterday, trigger warning, lots of bad driving. http://www.twitch.tv/keeket/b/665501972

Also, be brave.
Watched the first ten minutes and who knew driving a car was harder than flying a plane. :razz: You ought to get a patent on your 540 degree method of doing hairpins.

Does look like a pretty good change of pace from Monaco (wider, but bumpier), except that the roads are still lined with various deathtraps that'll murder your car if you catch a quarter panel on one as you try to blaze around a bend.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

SealHammer posted:

I can go retard fast through most of the Wales and basically all of the Greece stages, but Monaco makes me want to cry tears of shame. I just can't find out how to go fast on tarmac with a big wall on one side and a radiator-smasher on the other.
I have the same issue; I feel much stronger offroad (including icy Monaco areas) being able to tap momentum to my benefit. On the bare tarmac, I feel like even minor errors or going a bit slower as a precaution to prevent murdering my car on the jagged "wall" cost me a lot of time and it's much harder to find a happy medium pace between safely navigating things and putting up competitive times with the strongest AI.

Cojawfee posted:

Stop being terrible and learn the tracks, you will be much faster.
Agreed. If I wanted to race on the rainbow road, I'd play Mario Kart. :frogc00l:

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Cojawfee posted:

I don't think fanatec understands black friday sales as they only sell things they want to get rid of. Last year it was CSL seats as I assume they weren't selling well. They can barely keep production going anyway, so it's hard for them to have a sale. Expect to see old porsche based wheels this year probably.
Counterpoint: most Black Friday sales (in stores anyway) are selling things they want to get rid of and maybe a few actually notable deals to try and lure people in. Was kind of funny working in retail to see how many Black Friday sale items were on clearance the shortly after for a similar price.

This doesn't hold as true in online sales, but I don't think the racing wheel market is such that it'd do anything but lose them money to do noteworthy discounts on their staple products.

GhostDog posted:

I can't play the career mode in Dirt because I can't comprehend how to rally a front wheel drive.
Even if you do poorly, it doesn't take too long to unlock a 70's car and get things rolling.

All this Dirt talk is making me want to fire it up after starting a hiatus shortly before the Hill Climb was added due to playing the hell out of the first three rallies to the point it was frustratingly repetitive.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

SealHammer posted:

It's actually a left three, you just gotta stand on the throttle to keep your traction.

But yeah, some of these pace notes are just wrong or totally missing important poo poo like "keep out, hazard inside" so I dive the corner blind and end up tumbling end over end like a toddler on a Power Wheels.
There's this "Right Four Tightens" on Greece that drove me crazy for quite some time until I memorized it because it is more or less a Two Right (it's even a Three Left on the reverse direction, which feels much more lenient based on the approach being coming off another Three turn instead of a high speed straight). It's especially bad because on the normal timed Co-Driver calls the Tightens part is literally not said until you're already halfway into the corner (and going flying off a cliff or, if you were more on the ball, into a boulder that also sits outside the exit of the turn).

Hearing how they did the pace notes* was a downer simply because it seems like it'll be a massive hassle to just fix the plainly wrong ones (think they agreed some were wrong and are going to be fixed eventually), let alone make custom ones which would be neat (custom including giving the option of editing the notes so you could just change them to follow your own preference for a particular curve and who cares if it doesn't have a ~perfect~ intonation for the precise curve at hand based on the actual forces felt in the car).

I also don't like that they don't have any notes explicitly calling for you to cut a turn since sometimes a deep cut works incredibly well and sometimes not (even on ones that don't specify "Don't Cut").

* Pretty sure they said they did them in an actual motion rig following the courses all the way through on a single run with the guy on the Dev Team who actually has worked as a pro rally co-driver for some years. This is cool, but probably made them code it in a less accessible manner than they otherwise would've for "realism/authenticity" that most people don't notice anyway.**

** That said, if they open up any customizing content contributions from the community I really, really hope it's, over anything else, stage design tools/assets so the community can add more stages to the existing rallies since they become hopelessly repetitive. Even when they have the full 7~8 rallies they're shooting for added, two long stages (four if you include reverses which feel quite unique) per rally gets pretty repetitive fairly quickly. One of my favorite aspects of the old Colin McRae games was large stage count making it far less likely for you to end up memorizing the stages to the point you don't even need a Co-Driver. Recreating real world locations is, again, cool, but I feel like as a game it'd be more enjoyable with more quantity rather than a likely unnoticeable drop in quality (aka: they'd probably be able to make double the stage count in the same time without trying to painstakingly match it to real stages that most players won't recognize).

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

T1g4h posted:

Probably gonna be an unpopular opinion here, have they finally fixed the traction in DiRT Rally so cars actually have grip or is everything still a big slidey mess? Last time I played it I found my Delta sliding off the road at like 30 - 40mph no matter what I did and said gently caress it and uninstalled again :v:
This is the first I think I've seen any complaints on the grip in Dirt Rally. They have at least one WRC driver even giving them feedback so I doubt it's grossly out of line or they probably would've said that it'd be getting attention at some point.

In fact, the heavy gravel on Greece is so grippy that you barely even need to touch the brakes with non-Group-B cars.

I don't want to be the "L2P" voice, but it took me a bit to learn how to throw the car's weight around such that I don't put the car into a slow, gripless side ways slide. Usually this is caused by going too fast into a bend and continuing to hard turn to try staying on despite having too much speed to grip and then the momentum keeps carrying you on your previous trajectory despite your nose no longer facing that way and you just slowly slide off side ways unless your tires can get grip again (often not an option in narrow areas). Alternatively, Group B's carry such high speeds that little bumps often give you enough air that your lack of grip is because your wheels are not firmly planted on (or even touching, sometimes) the racing surface.

Having seen no mention by Devs of too much/little grip, I wouldn't expect changes to it, at least in the near term.

bUm fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jun 29, 2015

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

T1g4h posted:

Counterpoint, and my big issue with it: Real cars do not work the way they do in DiRT Rally. A race prepped Lancia Delta Integrale with actual offroad spec tires should not slide off into the trees on the slightest corner at 30mph when my 2wd work truck on lovely lovely all season street tires can easily manage 30 - 40mph down dirt and gravel roads without breaking traction in the slightest.

It's not even a matter of throwing the weight and learning to drive, it's a matter of the tires just not gripping the way real tires do. It feels like every car is skating around on oiled up surfaces while running hockey pucks for tires. It's not realistic, nor is it a simulation of how real cars actually handle, unless rally drivers just cover their tires in lard before every stage for extra challenge. I could see if I was barreling into a hairpin corner at 60+ and my car pushing and plowing straight into the trees or whatever, that'd be expected. But taking a very slight righthand bend at 30mph and having the car just understeer and slide off the road? That's just silly.
Acute, Hairpins, Right Angle, and 1's are the only time I ever go below 40 MPH (and, hell, some of those don't even need to go sub-40 MPH depending on the lead-in/lead-out) in a Group B car and seem to stay on alright barring pulling either of the situations mentioned in my previous post (going in to the turn too hot, losing all grip, and then still not regaining grip in time despite losing a lot of speed; or bouncing off from too much speed over rough terrain... usually my bigger problem in Group B cars). :shrug: I doubt you're taking any tight turns of those nature at 40 MPH in your truck (since it'd probably rollover, never mind losing grip).

I haven't tried it, but I'm fairly sure you could navigate any stage in the game at 40 MPH and easily drive along like it was a normal road and it would be quite composed. There's also factors like your truck probably has a much softer suspension compared to a rally car since it's supposed to be easy to drive by literally even grandmas whilst a rally car is supposed to be fast and things like a stiff (or at least very fast reacting compared to street vehicles) suspension are usually important towards going as fast as possible.

The Devs, least last I looked, seem to be listening and responding to feedback. Maybe you should do some tests and present them if you really feel the low speed handling characteristics are demonstrably bad/bugged since, even if you convince us, things won't change without convincing them.

osker posted:

Another counterpoint. If they have a wrc driver on retainer, how come the ffb was spectacular dog poo poo until some racedept schlubs fixed it?
They said the first week Dirt Rally was out that they did a half-assed implementation of FFB and would be revisiting it? I don't have a wheel (and, therefore, zero expertise on configuring one) so I can't really comment on why their revised version wasn't as good as what some third party was able to put together after their FFB changes.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Top Hats Monthly posted:

Weird question but are there any racing sims for cars like regular sedans? I want to take a Fusion around nurburing but nothing I can find for the PC
PCars has a couple sedan-like vehicles. Nothing as lowly as a Ford Fusion, but a BMW M1 and Mitsubishi Lancer. There's also a few hatchbacks that have closer to similar-ish performance to a Ford Fusion.

Jehde posted:

Lol @ complaining about the lack of grip in a rally sim.
I had a good laugh and figured it was a good point to stop the conversation when he said sticking to Dirt 3, a game that I don't think even pretends it's not arcade anymore (like the first Dirt did... and I jumped in feet first having loved the Colin McRae's of old... and it was one of the most disappointing gaming experiences I've ever had because, even as an arcade racer, it was not fun).


In other news, the Dirt Rally patch decided to bug out for me at installing (at least I assume since it said installing for like an hour after finishing the DL... on an SSD) and fell into an infinite loop of validating files (let it run for three hours while playing another game) after I restarted Steam. Guess it's good I don't have a monthly internet cap (relegating the poo poo ISP industry to a utility can't be implemented quick enough :colbert:), but still kind of annoying to DL 7 GB and have it screw up so I then have to DL 12 more GB. :smith:

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

jonathan posted:

This is going to be hard to explain, but does anyone else get the feeling that dirt rally is kind of like a rail shooter, but for cars ? What I mean is, it almost seems like they wouldn't be able to just out in a normal course like Laguna seca. Almost like the game just wants to follow the course. Like the original need for speed game.

Does this make any sense ?
Agreeing with no, it doesn't make sense.

For what it's worth: I think the Pike's Peak Hillclimb is probably among the closest to a "normal course like Laguna Seca" that you could add to a rally game as something iconic that people would recognize. The Monte Carlo stage (it's really one stage that meets in the mountain village I believe) is also, I believe, considered fairly iconic. In general though: rallies are hundreds of miles long and I'm pretty sure they vary which lengths of road are used from year to year for many of them (although usually keeping some of the more notable ones... which the ones used in game are among/part of, I believe). Many of the roads are also back roads or mountain roads without many diverging paths so, yeah, they tend to be fairly linear with not many other "roads not taken" going off the course.

Also, Rallycross is next. Rallycross is a closed course like Laguna Seca (except covered in dirt/gravel/whatever).

But, ultimately:

Cojawfee posted:

What? It's a point to point rally. You drive on the road from the start to the finish. Where else would you go? Do you want an open world rally game?


Also, maybe he wants a choose your own adventure rally? All roads are open... hope you pick the right ones to get to the end the fastest?

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

jonathan posted:

Yeah I mean I get rally, and I want to rally in a rally game, but I just get this weird sensation that the game engine mechanics wouldn't translate to a circuit course. Or almost like the car is being guided along the rally stage making driving easier than it should be.

Pretend we took a tarmac rally course and put it into a seemingly more universal engine such as iRacing. Would I still be able to get the car through the stage pulling off drifts with such ease ?

Sigh, maybe I've been in work camp too long.

Edit: maybe it's a FOV thing. What FOV setting do you guys with triple monitors use, and what angle are the side monitors supposed to be ?
I don't get that feeling at all with a controller and single monitor; staying on course seems plenty challenging to me at times (especially when it gets similar in width to the width of car). There might be some spots where there's ruts in the road help me out by pushing me in favorable directions, but there's also plenty that will send me flying off course if I hit them wrong (aka: some spots the course does help keep you on and others, it seems, try to buck you right the gently caress off).

I haven't played iRacing, but opinions around here and the PCars thread have me under the impression it has, like a lot of older-gen sims, less grip than it should (?) so maybe that's not a great comparison. Wait, why would you be pulling drifts on tarmac anyway (outside maybe hairpins)? Regardless, watch some tarmac rally onboard (crappy quality, but a stage you'll know) video on YouTube; rally cars grip dat hip road hard which probably makes it a lot less squirrel-y than you might think.

bUm fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Jul 2, 2015

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

holocaust bloopers posted:

Work in progress. They've updated the AI for several tracks already. Despite their raving mad forums, SMS is improving the game monthly.

The AI is more aware of the player, and tends to be less aggressive as a result.
Unless you're behind the AI in a higher class of vehicle (multi-class races). Then they are oblivious to your existence. :v:

I've seen the AI make some fairly aggressive moves in PCars both against me and against other AI that all but guarantee some contact. Not sure why sometimes they opt for such moves and others (more often) they just seem content to wait around.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Cojawfee posted:

So the only non Brazilian track they will have is CGV? That's why I didn't really like GSCE. It was fun to drive but I didn't know any of the tracks besides Interlagos. I don't want to learn tracks I'll never use in any other game.
As long as Brazil isn't filled with Nurburgrings, I feel like learning a new track doesn't take that long for basic competence driving it. In PCars, I feel like I have a pretty good feel for a track I've never driven before within the same 10~15 minute practice it takes to tweak the setup to something more preferable (assuming the default car setup isn't trash, then it can take much longer).

Picking up a known entity is nice, but new tracks can be cool too (and who cares if you ever see them again if they're decently good tracks to race on).

bUm
Jan 11, 2011
Gotta loosen up the rear roll bar a smidge, losing grip to lifting that wheel.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Tony Montana posted:

oh, Dirt Rally is loving great guys. I really dig it, it's got a totally different model to Dirt before it and it's rally proper.. complex turn instructions, long stages (under 5 min total, but when you've had new corners coming at you for 2 mins and you're revving high in 4th and suddenly you get a CAUTION.. it's intense), all the cars there should be (Stratos is available in almost from the start).

Rally is really time-trial, but they're working on the RallyCross component now. I really don't care about, in Dirt it was just a terrible smashfest. Head to head happens on a track where you've got the grip and space on the track to play around, many RallyCross circuts have choke points and much of it is almost single track.. nah if you're a track racing fan the head to head on the dirt is just too cumbersome.

Oh FFB code is great. I think better than PCars, but in a rally enviroment you're going to have all sorts of interesting things going on with the wheel you don't on a track.

Yeah.. it's been worth the money for me.
Dirt Rally is so good we made a marginally active thread for it!

I fell a bit out of the loop on Dirt Rally for the last few weeks, but isn't Finland next? Think the second Rallycross patch dropped and that's it for it (per their current plans). For what it's worth: Rallycross is surprisingly fun, even as someone who thought it'd be a dumb waste of time holding back the addition of more proper rally action; some "circuit" action where bumping and grinding is par for the course (not to mention bits of offroading to help contact happen) is a neat change of pace compared to racing clean being the standard and incidents of not keeping it clean can be race ending as per "proper" circuit racing.

quote:

So, at Sept in 2015 we have

Track Racing: Project Cars
Rally: Dirt Rally
Real car combat and upgrades and FUN : Mad Max
Flying Car Sportmans and car dress-up and MUCH FUN: Rocket League

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

njsykora posted:

On another note I did a couple of races against the AI in the rFactor 2 stock cars and that AI is not great.
Speaking of AI, I wandered to the OP and saw our chart says Raceroom has good AI. I then wandered to the Steam page and saw it was F2P. To which, I feel obligated to ask before DLing it: does it have at least PCars (mediocre) level controller support?

My last parting of ways with PCars was thanks to a massive AI difficulty inconsistency annoying me (one race in an invitational I won by a moderate margin at 90 difficulty, the next I can't qualify better than 18/20 on 80 difficulty on a track I feel I'm pretty good at [Donington]).

Cojawfee posted:

Don't get three monitors. If you currently have three monitors, go with it. If you don't have three monitors, wait for the Rift or Vive. Even with the low resolution of the DK2, you're actually in the car and it's amazing. There's so much depth. At the very least, find someone to let you try VR when it comes out before going with three screens. The extra peripheral of three screen is nice, but you can't place the car as well as you can with a rift.
I haven't really been following VR stuff aside from glancing at some things after reading this last night, but have any of them hinted at (at least in the future) including peripheral vision screens? I guess, on the downside, it'd be the equivalent of four screens which raises PC spec necessity over even that of triple monitors, but that seems like a kind of big drawback over a more tradition setup since peripheral vision is definitely a plus. I'd probably rather go for VR on the principle of it taking up a lot less space than a triple monitor setup though (sounds like price-wise, it'll be similar-ish).

Cojawfee posted:

Holy poo poo. Not counting what's already in iRacing or any duplicates on the same device (his tach/shift light thing has the lap time on 7 section display as well as the LED display):

3 digital readouts of RPM
3 shift lights
3 readouts of speed
2 readouts of gear
3 tachometers
5 readouts of lap times
3 readouts for water/oil temps

Then all his loving LEDs and fans. With all the money he's wasted on useless poo poo, he could have a way better wheel. Granted this was posted well over a year ago when the DD wheel craze hadn't gotten into full swing, but still. Jesus.

Edit: I forgot that his TVs are so far away.
I don't think it was his intend purpose, but I started laughing when he was going through all the gauges and totally unnecessary lights. I'm sure in a separate video he is PCMasterRacing up his Titan-using (in 2014... so when it was over $1000 for just the card?), LED filled PC too.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

njsykora posted:

You could play it with a controller, I've not done it but the outside car camera is pretty rubbish, the HUD basically doesn't exist and every loading screen will say "Yo you really should be using a wheel".

But it's also free to at least download it and try it out so you might as well if you can.
I decided what the hell and gave Raceroom a try. I quickly realized it is hardly the F2P it claims and it's more or a less a demo since the F2P component includes: 2 circuits, 1 non-circuit, and five cars (in, I think, 2 different classes) which is hardly enough to do anything interesting without buying a pack. It is kind of annoying that it included so little for DLing 17 gigs for.

It was technically possible to use a controller with, but difficult. Poked around with settings for little while, but it still felt really touchy and I was routinely unrecoverably spinning out trying to accelerate out of turns (even when being perfectly straight before touching the gas). Might've been able to tune it to feel better, but, having seen how little content was free anyway, just went ahead and uninstalled it.

I was using the driver cam like I do in PCars; not sure why you'd assume chase cam since it's probably harder to use that, even with a controller.

Think I've put in enough time with a controller between PCars and Dirt Rally that I might seriously start looking into getting a wheel. Think in the past people here mentioned the G27 as a good quality per dollar (gold standard for entry wheels?) for a first wheel, right? If that still checks out, it seems like a decent idea to price watch (looking at a price history, it occasionally went sub-$200 brand new last holiday season) the G27 in the coming months as they try to clear stock to make way for the G29/920 being their primary during holiday sales.

OhsH posted:

the sounds are always so goddamn good in r3e imo
It definitely sounded nice; probably the highlight of it from my brief glance.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

njsykora posted:

Yeah I usually prefer to call RaceRoom's free stuff a demo, but if you like it just buy the DTM 2013 or ADAC 2014 packs because they're the cheapest and will get you going pretty well. As for wheels I'd say hold off on the G27 because the T150 is supposedly a really great wheel coming out next month for $200.
If I was going to drop money for it, I think I'd jump for GSCE instead since it looks more interesting from afar (I'm assuming it has a similar/good season based around Brazilian Stock Cars instead of the series R3E covers). I was just probing since it was "free" with above average AI. Played some PCars last night and had a good time though so that'll sate my short term circuit racing desire for awhile until one of its quirks drives me away again.

T150 sounds interesting. Looks like it lacks a clutch pedal/shifter, but is also belt driven (better/quieter, right?) and has a brake with progressive resistance out of the box. I assume using paddles makes things quite a bit easier, but I might also feel like I'm missing out on the full experience when driving cars that have a proper shifter. Might be a better bet in the long run though if I decided to upgrade if the wheel itself was still good so I'd just need pedals/shifter. I'll have to have a look at some reviews for G27/T150 (the InsideSimRacing ones mentioned in the OP seem quite thorough) before any money is dropped. Thanks for an alternative suggestion; any others hanging around the $200 mark that I ought to check out?

GhostDog posted:

I'm going to add a remark about R3E's F2P aka Demo content in the next update. What is it now, three tracks and half a dozen cars?
One hill climb, two circuits with a few layouts, and five cars. Beyond that, as far as I'm aware, there wasn't really any feature locking (theoretically could play online/championship/etc) or duration locking preventing you from going hog wild with the fairly small amount provided if you wanted.

More explicitly: Lakeview Hillclimb; Raceroom Raceway, Portimao Circuit; Aquila CR1 Sports GT, Saleen S7R, DMD P20, 134 Judd V8, and Canhard R52.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

GhostDog posted:

I want to add a specific recommendation for starting out with a controller to the OP. I assume that would be pCars since it's actually available for console?
PCars, R3E, and Dirt Rally are the only modern ones I've played with a controller (tried Race 07 and a couple others back in the day and they were basically unplayable for me with controller, having only played Gran Turismo for sim racing before). Of those three, I'd rate controller play quality as (best to worst): Dirt Rally (felt solid out of the gates with no changes at all) > PCars (feels pretty good after tweaking: first to something playable [from official forums] since the Default is trash... then to personal preference) > R3E (didn't seem good with a controller, basic tweaks didn't help... didn't consult official forums for suggestions though).

I and others (Sealhammer, Kaddion) were winning goon PCars races with a controller against some with wheels so you can definitely be competitive after setting it up to your liking. Seems a reasonable recommendation for a PC circuit sim if you're rocking a controller, but I haven't played much of the competition in the OP for comparison.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

njsykora posted:

Completely unrelated but I decided to try out Nascar Racing 2003 and I'm shocked at how well that game stands up. Granted after installing quite a few mods and making graphics tweaks but it's really interesting to look at and see how very little in terms of UI and such changed when iRacing was made, even the replay controls and spotter lines are the same. Only real difference is the AI doesn't start screaming over voice chat if you drift up too high and cause a 20 car pile up. Also the adaptive AI thing actually shows you the difficulty it's operating at which is awesome for seeing actual improvement from race to race. Anyway what I'm saying is it's probably worth putting in the OP under old sims both for historical value and it still being pretty great to play, especially since most every form of Nascar (and Indycar) has been modded in over time.
NASCAR Racing 2003 worked decently with a controller! Remember playing it with a bunch of friends for a brief period years ago, we'd muck about in Practice and Qualifying (I got pole every time :smuggo:) and then we'd go to race and someone would manage to screw up and crash into AI drivers before the green flag (:argh: manual pace laps with teenagers with ADD) every single time.

Googling it, there's some Reddit post explaining how to get it all updated and, apparently, it's validly considered abandonware so it's theoretically legit to DL it for free. An interesting prospect perhaps for people who've mentioned wanting to get their oval racing on whilst most sims have slim to none for oval racing.* IIRC didn't Dale Earnhardt Jr. and some other NASCAR drivers call NR2003 harder than the real thing way back then?

* Think someone mentioned in the PCars thread awhile back being annoyed at the lack of adding Indy which is supposedly the still-missing category from career mode that has been "coming soon" despite the game being out like 5 months now. Also, when we did a goon race I remember looking at the setup and noticing a "Weight Jacker" setting on the Mustang race car that, per in-game info, was for running it on an oval track; naturally, it was defaulted to non-zero, despite there not being a single oval track in PCars. I was the only one who mucked with the settings and turned it to zero so the car wasn't pulling to the side the entire race. :shobon:

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

365 Nog Hogger posted:

At the correct FOV (which I am currently using, 22-4* depending on seating position), I can't see jack poo poo from the cockpit on my 24" monitor, if I was planning on driving with other people you bet your rear end I would be using an unrealistic FOV.
Yeah, I feel like having the technically accurate FoV with a small monitor is kind of a bad situation because you end up with so little peripheral vision and looking around can be distracting (with a controller, not sure if it'd be better or worse with a wheel to reach for a button) as you're trying to focus on driving.

In fact, if you watch the Emptybox video, he explicit states that his theoretically correct calls for 55 (or thereabouts) degrees, but he uses a 65 (or thereabouts) because it is a decent compromise between :rice: speed thanks to to distant objects wrapping (90 degrees) and forced tunnel vision (see a couple posts back). As long as you don't have it ridiculously unrealistic so you can see straight out the side window while looking straight ahead on a single monitor, you're probably not completely ruining your potential even if you might be able to do a bit better (at the potential cost of it feeling right, even if it technically is).

It's nice to have a section there as reference for people who are interested in messing with it to at least see their theoretical and then work towards something that feels good.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

SealHammer posted:

If it makes you feel any better, he knew the stage because he played it before :shobon:

...and the time wasn't that fast either.
Let's calculate the FoV we're getting from the camera's position and how much faster it looks than it is from where he is sitting. :v:

For reference, one of the top Dirt Rally players does the same stage/car in 2:58.6, a solid 7 seconds faster with a decent mistake. Now I'm curious what I've gotten on that stage in the Fiesta; wonder if I did or can do better with a controller than a "pro" driver.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

jonathan posted:

I thought the ford rs200 caused the end of the group B era
Nah, Lancia Delta was the final nail in the coffin.

Helicon One posted:

Is dirt rally finished yet or are they doing the whole Eternal Beta thing?
I wish, but we're almost done. Next month adding the Sweden Rally is the end of announced content being added as part of Early Access. As far as I've seen, they've been mum about what's after that.

I'm sure many would be thrilled for them to continue to pump out free content monthly, but I'd assume things will get a little more complicated once it's officially released.

Was pretty worth the $30 back when it hit Early Access; definitely worth it now if you like rally racing and maybe even if not just as a different alternative to all the other circuit racers out there.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Black Griffon posted:

Has anyone experienced CTDs in Dirt Rally when alt-tabbing?
Nope. Think I've had maybe one or two CTDs ever since getting it shortly after it was opened for Early Access.

FancyMike posted:

Alt-tabbing in dirt rally works fine for me, never crashed, but it does switch out of fullscreen into a tiny window and I have to Alt-enter when switching back to it.
This is super annoying. Probably should've complained about this on the official forums months ago: give us full screen windowed or just fully Alt-tab like every other full screen game ever; Dirt Rally's method is like the worst of all possible worlds on Alt-tabbing.

conversation piece posted:

Edit: MOTHERFUCKER all of my car tune presets have been erased with this 0.9 DiRT Rally update. I guess everything is new again. Hopped in a 60's car and went to Finland, everything feels real floaty now, but I think that's just the course.

Oh wow did all the times get reset too? All of my precious top 100 times are gone :qq:
Did they actually all get erased due to the patch or did they get erased because you haven't played since prior to the transitioning to their version 2 physics model for cars? Most of the setups got wiped last patch (all but Group B and Group A) since the cars behave totally different anyway.

Yeah, I'm not sold on the new physics models. I haven't driven a rally car, but the new physics models feel stupidly light (maybe realistic?) in not a good way compared to the old physics model. On the one hand it makes the cars feel more responsive, but, on the other, I feel like small bumps are much more liable to just throw you clear off the stage if you hit them wrong, ruining/ending your run.

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Black Griffon posted:

Alright, second time now, so I'm not chalking it up to a freak crash.

This is what I get, right as the race is over.


First time was single player, second was the monthly. Both runs are completely lost.

Edit: This time involved no alt-tabbing.
There was quite a few issues with Error 41 crashes for months (mostly on game start so people couldn't play at all), but, by the sounds of patch notes, most of them were fixed.

The only known cause I know of offhand that came up in the Dirt Rally thread was caused by their C drive being near full capacity; not sure if that's been fixed by Codemasters yet. Think this has to do with the game creating the replay (see: a large file) alongside your run and it only saving if you tell it post run and this would crash it if there wasn't enough space on your C drive to store the temporary replay file.

I can't really say more since I haven't had any problems; your best bet is probably Steam discussion and/or Dirt Rally forums.

conversation piece posted:

Same difference really.
Kind of in that they were wiped. Kind of not in that any prior setups were rendered useless by the car physics changing completely so it was pretty logical to delete them.

Norns posted:

Oh god that desktop. Triggered
Agreed: it has Uplay on it. :barf:

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

Black Griffon posted:

Still gonna wait for sale though, it's quite painful. I really want a wheel, man, I really want a wheel.

Edit: Also, using the Warthog joystick as the handbrake would be loving awesome. Oh man.
The T-150 is a month old; I figured I'd wait around just in case it went on sale during the holidays, but I'm doubtful it will (hasn't yet). Other Thrustmaster stuff might though if you were curious at something beyond entry level.

Sounds like it might break the joystick unless you were gentle with it (what's the fun in that?).

bUm
Jan 11, 2011
:laugh:

Part of it is on you though: it's like first turn mayhem, except it happens whenever there's a group of cars near those houses/buildings. :v:

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bUm
Jan 11, 2011
Speaking of Reiza, I've been thinking of nabbing SCE while it's on sale as I lean further towards getting a wheel (hasn't sounded like a good controller title) and it sounds like what I'm looking for in terms of good AI (big selling point, going by the OP chart it seems the best of the three marked for good AI that I've seen based on discussion in here) and unique tracks, good mods doesn't hurt either.

Can anyone give a quick and dirty breakdown (or link) about what the deal with the Reiza 2015 thing was where it sounded like they were going to make a new game instead of a SCE expansion or something? Were they going to give a discount to SCE owners for that or just to donors for the project? Also, what's going on with free content being added to SCE?

Beyond that, can anyone give a quick description of what career/season mode is like in it since details seem scarce? Does it have any fluff like joining a team or anything or is it just single seasons with position-based points system?

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