Metal Gear Solid V TPP SPOILER/PLOT THREAD - this thread has spoilers

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Metal Gear Solid V TPP SPOILER/PLOT THREAD - this thread has spoilers

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Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

cat doter posted:

TPP's systems layer on each other in a really interesting way and it's thematically linked with the story in a lot of cool ways, calling it feature bloat is silly imo. Feature bloat is when a game is crippled by its need to do too much, MGSV is instead invigorated by it. It's a great loving game, regardless of story missteps.

Broseph Brostar posted:

I'm glad most of the budget went into stuff that you actually play with, instead of most of it going into a massive building falling over in CoD or a bunch of fancy QTEs like Uncharted.

Two really good points. I didn't like the story at all, it might be the worst MGS in terms of plot but at the same time I think the problems with writing came from the open world design. In that angry long post the dude said Mantis appeared at random points but KJP would have to make entirely new locales for most of the important plot points. That's why mission 51 got cut. Making two big areas and then doing QA on that is difficult enough. Still could use some polishing because Snake really hates going up steeper hills in this game.

Edit: Also its really funny that after the Garbage trailer most people were like "it's the medic" and it turned out to be true.

Terminally Bored fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Sep 6, 2015

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 23:21

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 07:05

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

My favorite part of the plot was when five African children and Eli fixed a metal gear by themselves and then flew with it to the sunset. The gear ever fluttered its hands a little.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2015 23:51

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Funky Valentine posted:

Huey: It needs to be piloted by a child, it should be able to be fixed by a child!

*Huey returns to work, ignoring the sounds of Strangelove slowly dying in Robo-Boss's brain*

Huey: It was suicide! Also I never even met that kid!

DasKuend posted:

And i thought Kojima would make a decent plot until the very end of the game

Same. 5 really reminded me of 2. The twist was mostly the same - you're the character and you have to accept it. You meet villains you don't actually get to fight. Even pacing is similar, last third of the plot is really goddamn disjointed and the ending feels abrupt and not really earned. Also it would be cool to know at least some of the stuff that the real BB was doing during TPP or meet him during the game.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2015 00:04

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Mr. Fortitude posted:

I think Hideo Kojima gets way too much credit for his writing roles by the fans, frankly. He's not a good writer. The games which people consider to have good stories are the ones he co-wrote with Tomokazu Fukushima, who also wrote Ghost Babel on his own. MGS 4, PW and MGS V he had Shuyo Murata as a co-writer and all three games have been criticized for the story, although PW stands above MGS 4 and MGS V.

It's also worth noting that Hideo Kojima had some really dumb ideas for MGS 1, 2 and 3 and he had to be reigned in somewhat by Fukishima and the rest of the development team, whereas in 4, PW and V he more or less had free reign until Konami put their foot down.

Not that I'm saying Hideo Kojima is a hack or anything, he is good at coming up with cool ideas and directing scenes from his games. But I do think people attribute too much to him and it kind of went to his head a bit, especially when he goes on about how only the games he writes matter which is egotistical as hell, when games like Rising follow up on some plot elements Kojima himself abandoned.

A very good post. Kojima's stories always needed heavy editing and their quality depended on who was the editor.

Under the vegetable comes off as a guy who thinks Sucker Punch was a feminist movie about strong women.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2015 13:25

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

One of the guys at MB just said "Boss, whoever you are, I'll follow you". So they know, too? :confused:

# ¿ Sep 9, 2015 21:28

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

redreader posted:

Hollywood could learn something from Kojima apparently

ftfy, by all accounts he's the guy who wants all those little details in his games. Even if it means going over budget.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2015 17:48

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Under the vegetable posted:

This game cost twenty million dollars less to make than that buggy turd of a rail shooter BioShock infinite. The budget wasn't high enough!

I didn't mean anything hostile by it other than this is a thing he does often. He went over budget in 2 and 4 also. And ran out of dev time in both cases, too. Eurogamer article mentioned there was a large part of MGS1 cut and I guess it was the same with 3 but you won't notice it since both have (comparably) concise and coherent stories.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2015 18:03

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Nakar posted:

How are you even supposed to do 45's "extract all vehicles" objective legit?

I think you have to get your support unit to initiate a sandstorm.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 08:32

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

In It For The Tank posted:

One thing I don't think the game did enough of was illustrating that the whole world was, in fact, after Big Boss. Outside of the one jet sent by Cipher and Mosquito's invasion of Mother Base, Venom was able to build Diamond Dogs without any opposition and I never got the feeling that they were under constant threat from everyone. It was very much an informed threat, not one that felt serious or at all detrimental after the hopsital prologue.

Considering how important it is to motivating Venom's creation in the first place, it seems like it's important to show that Big Boss was being targeted by everyone. The Sovies, the PFs, even the Man on Fire only attacked Venom when he was all up in their poo poo.

Yeah, that one was supposed to be explained by the FOB system I guess but it still doesn't show the urgency of the whole situation. There was even this inspection mentioned in GZ and the subject never returns again. Cyprus was dangerous but there are no attacks after that. One guy tries to take over MB but that's just online tutorial.

Also, I think Ocelot (as cool as he is) was not an interesting character in TPP. He literally doesn't do anything in the story apart from bringing up DD and training some soldiers at the base. Oh and torturing people sometimes and that bit with Miller at the end. Other than that he was just a very cool guy who's always right about everything all the time and throws exposition at you at every possible moment.

Terminally Bored fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Sep 12, 2015

# ¿ Sep 12, 2015 21:56

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

guy in the steam thread:

Blattdorf posted:

I'm still saying the actual MGS5 is not out yet. But this is getting boring, so I'm gonna toxx myself here.

If by the end of December 2015 there is no official confirmation or anything that will prove beyond a shadow of doubt that there will be more chapters to MGSV or MGS5 (or at least some kind of additional epilogue or Mission 51), I will buy a 15-20 dollar/euro game for each of the next five people who reply to this toxx and say they agree to it. The game will be of their choosing, or even multiple games, as long as the total value is within the specified amount.

If less than five people agree to it, the participants will simply get a higher-valued game out of it. I'll divide 100 by 4 and so on.

However, if I'm right, then those five people will each buy me a 15-20 dollar/euro game or multiple games of a total value not exceeding the specified amount. Or, if there are fewer participants, then of a higher value. This will be specified if need be once the deadline for this toxx is reached.

I'd say we'll find out this month on the 21st (or even get a new chapter), but there's no guarantee they won't extend the ARG.

I accept entries for this toxx until Friday.

EDIT: It must be the continuation of the story. No silly plotless mission packs.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 14:31

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Jim Sterling compares Kojima to Michael Bay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy-FhExTY9M

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 20:30

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Sterling is an rear end in a top hat but he's right - Quiet could be a great character but she's fanservice personified instead. Same goes with B&B unit in 4, even with Drebin's monologues.

Strom Cuzewon posted:

In the sense that neither of them know what the gently caress to do with a camera?

Edit: "the downright creepy, awkward, narratively inappropriate poo poo you get in every Quantic Dream farce" could describe everything in those games, not just the sex scenes. And I loving loved Fahrenheit.

Fahrenheit had legit one of the worst stories in gaming. Like the absolutely worst, disjointed, unfinished story with terrible dialogue and twists so stupid it melted brains. It's a loving miracle David Cage can still get any kind of budget to make games because he's terrible at making them. Both in terms of gameplay and story.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 21:35

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

lets hang out posted:

No different from every other mgs

3? Both Eva and The Boss were well written.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 21:40

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Vikar Jerome posted:

yes. all after the 100% player controlled decision to kill her or bring her back.

Nice post/avtext combo.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 21:45

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

ImpAtom posted:

They had other stuff cut but 'cut' is a bit dishonest in that it was more they had ideas they didn't use. One was an ancient sniper whose idea was eventually recycled into The End for example. The game had a lot of codec-in-place-of-cutscenes but that was less cut content and more how they worked around budget limitations.

Cut content doesn't just mean cut for budget. It can be cut because it didn't work, they didn't like the idea, it would have been difficult to implement and so-on. That's a basic part of game design and every game ever made has it.

Haha, no, they cut out a large part of an entire strut in 2.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 22:51

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

ImpAtom posted:

Do you have an actual source of this? I've heard it mentioned but never anything beyond "they planned more content and eventually nixed it" as opposed to "it was cut from the final game."

Yeah, watch Chip Cheezum's LP. He even shows the locked (broken) doors that were to be used and shows of stuff from Document of Metal Gear Solid 2.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 22:57

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

ImpAtom posted:

That isn't actually the same thing as what we're talking about. That's from Document of MGS2 which is where most of the stuff we're talking about is from. It's mostly concepts they didn't use, not stuff cut from the game.

Yeah, some ideas were at concept stage but there are a few locked doors on the last strut that were supposed to lead to a new area. They had to cut it due to time constraints.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 23:06

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Vamp is just an awful, awful character.

Yeah, and they made him even worse in 4.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 23:08

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Man Really Digs Emil Cioran Quote, Accidentaly Rips Off Resident Evil Plot

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 19:03

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Knifegrab posted:

All in all probably the worst metal gear in terms of story save MGS 2.

I'd throw 4 into that pile, too.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 19:10

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

/\/\/\
Absolutely. 1 and 3 are also the only ones that can be enjoyed and understood by newcomers.

Knifegrab posted:

Everyone look upon this post, and see how wrong it is. Know this poster can never post again in good faith having made such a terrible post.

Bad Fan-fiction The Game has good story. Sure.

Terminally Bored fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Sep 16, 2015

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 19:27

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

cargohills posted:

I'm surprised about the unpopularity of MGSV's story. I guess I'd like if there was more to it, but I think (barring maybe some scenes in MGS4) that it's cutscenes are the absolute peak of the series. Previous games in the series often had their cutscenes drag on for far too long and they weren't shot very interestingly.

The cutscenes themselves are amazing, camerawork is off the hook good but the story is the main problem. The theme of race or other taboo subjects that Kojima mentioned don't appear in the game. There are holes in the plot that are not inconsistencies but actual holes where the story should be. It's pretty clear they just ran out of time and funds.

Nail Rat posted:

Also Ocelot is just weird. I don't like Troy Baker voicing him, not just because of the accent, but he just does a bad job in a lot of places. That recitation of the "you're pretty good" speech from MGS3 he gave to some random DD soldier was done flatly and was just really bad. I usually like Baker but this was the first Ocelot I didn't think sounded/acted cool.

Ocelot doesn't do anything in the story apart from interrogating a few people. Other than that he's just there to give you tips.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 20:52

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Nail Rat posted:

Yeah but I'm saying when he does talk or do something, it's usually not done very well. He may as well not be in this game if they weren't going to care enough to at least make him give off the air of being a cool badass he has in every other game in the series, including the Portable Ops ending.

He has very little relevance to the plot.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 20:59

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Archonex posted:

He does plenty, actually. It's just all behind the scenes where Venom can't see it. Hell, he's technically still playing a double agent. Just like he is in every game.

Best part is, unless you're paying attention you'll never notice it. Because for once Ocelot is working for you. Of course he's not going to tell you that he's basically using you as a gigantic target for his real employer.

That's exactly why show not tell is one of the most important rules in writing.

I was going to ask about the plot-important stuff he actually did and you mentioned hypnotising himself to believe Venom was BB. I still don't think him contributing to that stupid twist (and MGS2 ripoff at that) was good in any way.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 21:23

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

TheHoosier posted:

Im on the boat that 1 and 3 are the best MGS games storywise because there's a defined beginning and end. The stories are self-contained and do well to create just enough vagueness to keep you interested. I wanted to know more after those games. The others feel like a madman's stream of consciousness where at the end I just sit there with an eyebrow raised. Especially 4. At least 5 has somewhat of a lead-in to MG1.

Im replaying the games and im looking forward to seeing them again without rose goggles. 3 is still incredible, but we'll see about 2 and 4...

gently caress this parasite nonsense.

It just occurred to me that 1 and 3 are also the only games in the series where Kojima didn't feel the need to explain everything supernatural with some kind of nanomachines/parasites/midichlorians. Awesome stuff just happens, Bond-girls do motorcycle tricks, people shoot bees out of their asses, one guy has a living tattoo, all this without hours of exposition. Then he went all Lucas in all the other games.

Oh, and Peace Walker didn't have that either. Just people talking about birds or dinosaurs or talking cats.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2015 21:19

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

That's crazy. loving infodump generation.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2015 21:33

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Funky Valentine posted:

loving people who want some background on people in stories. gently caress them.

This but unironically. Especially if the background is as well-written and delivered as that on B&B unit post-boss codecs. Fifteen minutes of the same story told four times.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2015 21:38

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

OnimaruXLR posted:

I think it's important to make a distinction here. If you're saying that 1 and 3 are the least weird Metal Gears, then you are one of these crazy people who thinks that Metal Gear Rising is "too over the top" and "doesn't fit" into the canon of the series.

Nah, I love MGR. And I love how it embraced the silliest aspects of all Metal Gear stories to deliver one that's even sillier and over the top.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2015 21:39

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Ekusukariba posted:

Was the cutscene with Eli attacking you with a chair in the game? Can't remember if that happened to me

Yes.

Throb Robinson posted:

Finally beat the game. Kojima should really never make video games again. Instead Hollywood should hire him to cut trailers. He managed to turn the blandest cutscenes into something amazing. Those trailers are a 100 times better then the story.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2015 21:51

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Have a 35-minute spergout on the plot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO4Tusk_V2k

Guy picked up some fun details in the ending.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2015 17:30

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Reposting this for the new page as this is probably the best analysis/review so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO4Tusk_V2k

# ¿ Sep 21, 2015 17:41

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

This thread is loving terrible.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2015 19:51

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

The Unnamed One posted:

Also The Witcher 3 deals with themes such as fatherhood, sacrifice, racism and political intrigue with a fairly deft touch. Hell, just the Bloody Baron's questline handles its point in a better fashion than most of TPP.

Just wanted to post that. That one questline deals with mature themes way, way better than any part of MGSV story.

Witcher 3 is really good in terms of story and it actually uses the open world to its advantage. You learn lots of stuff about the game world by travelling, listening to people, getting quests or looking at villages or people working in the fields. There are also parts where you can choose what part of plot you'll follow. And it has like three endings and all of them are really loving great and tie up the whole story (told across three games) really well. Even the bad ending.

Snak posted:

I mean gently caress, W3 has ~~three~~four+ different stories about fathers and how they relate to their children. MGSV kind of hints at one. MGSV's gameplay and story is pretty great, but to claim that it has more to say that Witcher 3 is just ignorant.

This.

EDIT: I love MGSV, I really do but its greatest strenght is the gameplay which is a huge step up after MGS4.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2015 06:37

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

/\/\/\/\
MGSV doesn't tackle it at all even though "race" is said to be one of its main themes.

I think it would really help the game's story if Kojima played up the hallucination aspect more. Paz sideplot was really good, especially its ending and with her tapes it's one of the few parts of the game where it actually feels, I don't know, poetic?

# ¿ Sep 24, 2015 07:02

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Yeah Bro posted:

Characters in metal gear are caricatures that exist for thematic reasons.

And how does this makes MGSV writing good exactly?

I mean, it worked in 3 where all the characters were kinda goofy because they were transplanted from classic spy thrillers but there's none of that in 5. People expected realism because that's exactly what Ground Zeroes delivered - a really dark (in a realistic way) story.

One more thing that W3 story did way better than V: the characters actually develop throughout the story. They change and it's fun seeing them change. Meanwhile you get the flatest Ocelot character in all the series and one-note "I'm crazy as hell" Miller. The only person who actually has an arc is Quiet but it's still undercooked.

Terminally Bored fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Sep 24, 2015

# ¿ Sep 24, 2015 09:03

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Yeah Bro posted:

Lol

Like, dude, read what I wrote. I criticized y'all for believing that all characters in fiction should be judged on how "real" or "believable" they are, and y'all respond with "metal gear characters are not realistic or believable". Lol

"drat, these characters who're in a series that has been( in 3, pw & v) about the reduction of a people] into a symbol, and how that is then used to mobilize ideology are 1 dimensional symbols. What's going on!?!?"

That's absolutely not what I meant. It's not about the realism (although as I said, people expected it because GZ set it up). MGS as a series embraced pulp and paper-thin characters but even pulp stories have to be delivered properly. As people here mentioned, V is full of themes and sideplots that don't go anywhere. There's 1984 but apart from some MB posters and Miller saying everyone should suspect everyone it doesn't move anywhere. Miller even apologizes for all this few cutscenes later and it's abandoned completely. There's the hallucination part but it appears in the first mission and Paz arc only. The main plot doesn't build up properly, there are no story beats to it either. The tapes help a bit, but they make the whole thing look like a Greek drama - there's whole lotta talking but the most important stuff happens behind the scenes.

Terminally Bored fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Sep 24, 2015

# ¿ Sep 24, 2015 09:25

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Yeah, as in: one tape has the old guy saying "MB is superorganism, kinda". That's it, that's the whole theme.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2015 17:52

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

Depth's not the problem. You go through a warehouse full of nuclear warheads in MGS1, the antinuclear theme is tied to the gameplay really well and it's memorable that way. In V you just hear one conversation.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2015 17:58

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

SPACE HOMOS posted:

I thought these were interesting interpretations of MGSV and how to relates to other metal gear games.

http://europeanextreme.tumblr.com/post/128801653764/tpp-analysis

http://www.giantbomb.com/metal-gear-solid-v-the-phantom-pain/3030-40796/forums/the-ultimate-ending-discussion-spoilers-1781915/?page=1

I also listened to that youtube personality superbunnyhop's video on the game. He should learn how to not sound like a drone while reading. He also goes on saying things like "how can these SILLY characters in MGS3 be EVIL later on?? I don't believe it!!" and "They don't explain anything!!!" So what I got out of his review is that he doesn't want to think for himself and wants Kojima to explain everything. Last time the fans demanded everything to be explain was MGS4 and look how that turned out. Plus the characters in metal gear aren't supposed to be cut and dry.

if you think turning MGS3 cast into villains was good writing.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2015 18:37

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 07:05

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

SPACE HOMOS posted:

They're not supposed to be villians hence why nothing is cut and dry.

Sure but was it well written?

# ¿ Sep 29, 2015 18:42

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Metal Gear Solid V TPP SPOILER/PLOT THREAD - this thread has spoilers

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