Venezuela: The Empanada Summit

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Venezuela: The Empanada Summit

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

It's more likely to be ignorance than a deliberate lie on LK's part.

edit: oh jeez don't do the "it's just semantics" thing, LK, that's a terrible look.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jan 23, 2019

# ¿ Jan 23, 2019 17:35

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 1, 2024 11:19

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

This isn't the Trump thread. You don't need to evaluate everything in terms of the domestic politics of the United States.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2019 20:44

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Lightning Knight posted:

The American government effectively just co-signed an attempted political coup. While you may wish to argue that they are justified in doing so, it is undeniable now that we have made ourselves involved.

That's...not what I said. You are evaluating what is happening in another country in terms of how the US is involved, and not with any particular attention or knowledge of what is happening in that country. You're also getting the directionality of the coup backwards- Maduro executed a coup by attempting to bypass the legislature.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2019 20:50

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

The events occurring in Venezuela are not about the United States. The US isn't enforcing the election law of another country, it's performing its obligations under the general principles of international law regarding the recognition of sovereign governments. I'm struggling here because you're glossing or simply wrong about enough different parts of the subject, simultaneously, that it's difficult to identify what order of correction to apply.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2019 20:56

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Sinteres posted:

Do you think Trudeau signed on because he wants right wing death squads to kill more Veneuzelans than Maduro would starve too?

You don't understand, Sinteres. Other countries, other information, those things aren't relevant. It's about what the US does, and how wrong it is.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2019 20:59

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Party Plane Jones posted:

again, too long, it cuts off before coup

"stuck in the middle with coup" might be sufficient.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2019 18:59

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Is Golinger as insanely untrustworthy a source as she seems?

# ¿ Jan 24, 2019 19:15

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Really leaning into that redtext, aintcha capslock

# ¿ Jan 25, 2019 00:10

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Berke Negri posted:

maduro's still got a blue checkmark on twitter so i guess things are not truly official yet

Oh god, now I'm visualizing a version of Twitter/Hatreon/Gab for deposed dictators

# ¿ Jan 25, 2019 01:10

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Ilhan Omar is making some pretty disappointing tweets on the subject. She�s also retweeting Russia Today pundits.

Well, that's incredibly loving depressing.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2019 20:43

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Acebuckeye13 posted:

He's a founding member of Voluntad Popular, which is center left by Venezuelan standards and would probably be considered roughly Bernie Sanders level in the US from what I understand.

Acebuckeye, has there been a breakdown of the parties in the Actual Real Legislature at any point in the thread? I don't recall one, and I'd been lurking for awhile this kicked off. That sort of contextualizing information might help rebuff at least the "American puppet is fascist" part of this...we'll call it an argument for lack of a better term.

vvv and, regrettably, because otherwise I think we outsiders are going to do it for you.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2019 02:47

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

fnox posted:

This is a fun one I just found, bunch of white Americans masquerading as Venezuelans, protesting in Philadelphia.

https://twitter.com/JULIOCESARRIVAS/status/1089248079298072576

What are the affiliations of this twitter account, and what do we know about the affiliations of the protesters? I know that a lot of the social media poo poo Maduro's purchased is apparently run out of Turkey.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2019 22:50

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Chuck Boone posted:

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has just announced a 30 days period of negotiations between the US and Maduro. They're setting up something called the "Oficina de Intereses" (roughly, "Interests Office", as in, office where we talk about shared interests). Maduro is backing down from his threat to kick US staff and break all diplomatic relations with Washington. If there's no agreement made in these 30 days, the ministry says, then they'll really kick them out.

I'm reminded of the saying "Perro que ladra no muerde" (the dog that barks doesn't bite). Maduro isn't guided by any kind of ideological opposition to the US. He's guided by greed. He'll do anything to save his neck and keep his stolen money.

You think there's a managed exit/ airplane to russia loaded with gold scenario possible here? From what I'm hearing it might actually be a good outcome, if it also covers his circle.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2019 00:30

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Axelord, they already answer that. Your interrogation of the polling methods is starting to look really bad faith.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2019 06:08

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Phlegmish posted:

Maduro hits a lot of the same beats as Erdogan, right down to blaming nebulous foreign enemies for the results of his disastorus economic policies. When it comes down to it, and despite his vaguely socialist rambling, he's just another authoritarian strongman in the Latin American tradition.

Well we're seeing other ties to Erdogan, including Russian support. It's literally the same playbook.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2019 15:57

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Every time information is provided refuting one argument, you move to a different one that was already addressed. The constant shifting of rhetorical focus from y'all is getting really old.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2019 21:14

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

fnox posted:

gently caress it, it's a cult. Not worth it.

I don't even know what that bird is.

Northern Crested Caracara.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2019 23:04

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Please god yes, some sort of internal management by the competent would be nice.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2019 01:50

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Labradoodle posted:

Returning to some news, yesterday Marco Rubio tweeted the US had handed over control of the Venezuelan government and central bank accounts over to Guaido's team, but I haven't seen any other reports on this yet.

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1089656112130019329

This seems like a pretty massive deal to me, assuming they moved significant amounts of money (if not most of it) through those accounts, isn't it?

My understanding is the bank account association follows directly from recognizing the legislature as the locus of sovereignty. "We recognize you as the government, these are your accounts." That said, there are government accounts, "government" accounts and government "accounts".

# ¿ Jan 28, 2019 18:36

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

How difficult would it be to perform that transfer of financial control to the legislature? The gap seems to be the issue, the risk point.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2019 22:03

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

The reddit thread was identified as selective and bad faith several pages ago. They're rotating claims and sources.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2019 02:18

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Truga posted:

a few days ago someone here posted news about 5000 us troops heading for colombia

now i'm being told there's venezuelan t-72s and howitzers moving towards the colombian border

colombian border also happens to be the place where most refuges manage to get out of the country afaik, so that seems like a really bad development.

Got a source for either of these?

# ¿ Jan 29, 2019 16:40

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I am distracted by that video of an absolute wave of obese soldiers, with Maduro being somehow even more immense than the rest of them.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2019 23:42

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Venezuela: In awe at the size of this presidente

Seriously I think that video was actually footage of them moving the 200 tons of gold out of the country

# ¿ Jan 30, 2019 00:57

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Venomous posted:

...it's not a coincidence that MAG = Make America Great/M and A are the 13th and 1st letters of the alphabet, isn't it

loving brazen Nazis

It's a callsign in use for that purpose since at least July 2016.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2019 01:20

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

elgatofilo posted:

I believe it was Maduro himself who said that the CIA infected Chavez with an oncovirus.

To be fair, colorectal cancer (what Chavez had) has been linked to HPV, but HPV is not a systemic virus, so infecting the colon would require direct physical inoculation of that area.

Well, they have to smuggle the 200 tons of gold somehow

# ¿ Jan 30, 2019 18:19

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Venezuela Has 20 Tons of Gold Ready to Ship. Address Unknown
-Lawmaker claims Russian airplane has come to whisk it away
-Gold accounts for much of the country�s remaining hard assets

Bloomberg has separate corroboration of the report on the gold being prepared for removal.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2019 07:13

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Chuck tingle joke goes here

Edit pounded in the rear end by my 20 tons of radioactive CIA gold cancer

# ¿ Jan 31, 2019 08:40

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Try again, Nipples.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2019 17:05

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

ChaseSP posted:

Are we getting to the point of preemptively bragging how owned people will be when a situation they have zero control over may possibly get even worse, including the full on deaths of thousands if not more?

They came to the thread already past that point.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2019 17:27

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I love the whole �serially elide the first word of the article title and fail to link it until prompted, leaving no doubt about my bad faith� schtick

# ¿ Jan 31, 2019 18:37

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

This is reminding me I need to do a deepdive on intra-UN politics and appointments sometime; it�s a total shitshow.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2019 18:46

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

See I don't think this thread is really accurately summarizing the situation with food aid to Venezuela. I've watched the news, I've seen the videos. There's no way the government is seizing it and selling it off. No way.

Maduro is just eating all of it himself.

People posting like Venezuela is Iraq

it's really Kirby's Dream Land

# ¿ Feb 1, 2019 03:05

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I feel like I have a brain injury reading these arguments on loop from progressively less informed posters.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2019 02:56

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Please find some sort of supporting evidence for the �right wing coup� framing.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2019 13:42

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I too remember the declaration of right wing coup, the rightwing fascistary war and the coupstitutional conventions.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2019 17:26

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

God, just that initial shot displaying their respective sizes

After a transition away from Maduro occurs, what sort of structural government reforms would help stabilize the country's leadership? It seems like the military is a core issue, in that it's a concentrated power base. Would shifting leadership of military forces through the legislature help? How do countries that don't have these issues inculcate appropriate values in their military officers?

# ¿ Feb 2, 2019 21:24

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

What role do media systems and regulations play in this as well? Maduro/regime control over state and regional media companies seems to be a significant factor in his staying power. Media system control by the state, or by powerful factions, is a common issue in societal harm across the world. How can the situation be at least improved in Venezuela, even if it's not totally resolved?

edit: vvv case in point, I mean come on

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Feb 2, 2019

# ¿ Feb 2, 2019 23:18

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Truga posted:

From what I can tell it's been the new normal for over a year now that people just pour through the border, mostly to colombia.

Also,
https://twitter.com/IntheNow_tweet/status/1090670102209544192

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishmaeldaro/quirky-viral-video-channel-is-funded-by-the-russian-govt

Five seconds with google.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2019 18:38

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 1, 2024 11:19

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Flayer posted:

Bolton does say what the title of the video is saying. Yes, it is a pro-Russian news service but we're talking about the content of the video here.

What do you think the video shows. What do you think it means by captioning it "Admitted. Officially." How is posting it, without any discussion of its content or sourcing, an example of "talking about the content of the video"?

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Feb 4, 2019

# ¿ Feb 4, 2019 18:58

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Venezuela: The Empanada Summit

«‹›9 »