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The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Studio posted:

Did they change leveling at all since the game came out? I played on a guest pass and it was eh. Wondering if it's worth the download again.

Well it sounds like it's pretty much unplayable right now due to lag and queues so I'd give it another week at the very least. I didn't hear anything about them changing the basic leveling experience.

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The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

CoffeeBooze posted:

The game has some very good ideas that are actually well implemented. The way your character feels really responsive like in WoW, the combat system, ability system, art style and music are all pretty good. A lot of the components for a very solid game are there. The problem is it all bogs down when you start encountering the stubborn grognard style of end game design, a substantial number of bugs that never seem to get addressed, and a management team that seems to be utterly incapable of dealing with it all. Oh, and what little remains of the community is as bottom of the barrel as it gets.

Maybe some of this has changed with the f2p relaunch, but based on how it has gone so far I doubt it. When a development house has management issues it seems like it is almost impossible for anything to improve.

Pretty much. The game actually has a lot of good points but it also has a ton of annoyances that will probably keep enough of the potential playerbase from staying long enough to form a functional mmo community. Maybe the f2p standards are lower though idk.

Stanley Pain posted:

On the PVP server queues are popping within 2 minutes in the first 3 brackets so far. I've basically levelled via PVP alone. It's the only thing I "play" in this game. :shobon: If you're on the PVE server you deserve the scrublord carebears ;)

PSA: The PvP server will be completely dead once the queues for the PvE server are gone.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Rhymenoserous posted:

I don't know what scarlet blade is and I can't help but think I'd like to keep it that way.

I was trying to find a funny Scarlet Blade gif to post but the first hit on google was a forum discussing it where one of the posters literally has links to prostitution websites in his sig so I'm just posting that instead. Enjoy.

:nws:http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/185/20120605/AO_Queens_Blade_Media_Scarlet_Blade-4fcdba41ef3673713-4.html

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Rhymenoserous posted:

If you last played at launch/beta there are four zones in the game that weren't in game then. 3 of them kinda big and the 4th a really small hub.

One new dungeon, one new adventure, and I think a new raid?

All in all not bad for a year. But also not super polished.

I haven't heard anything about a genuine new raid but I think the former 40 man/now 20 man is supposed to be less unplayably bad now.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Snatch Duster posted:

Well, he is right isn't he?

It's probably because most Wildstar players are Aurin players.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Turtle Sandbox posted:

The biggest issue is that most people I talk too that have good rigs have problems with the games performance. If you have a normal machine, wildstar might just be unplayable despite you more than meeting the requirements to run it. I don't know why my machine struggles with this game while playing modern, actually good looking games on high settings fine.

I can't imagine how this thing runs on a normal computer that most of your playerbase is going to actually have.

As long as your computer isn't from 2005 or something performance may as well be random and you'll never really know until you try. A great computer might get 10 fps and middling one might get 30.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

imgay posted:

I see the correlations between ff14 and wildstar. Both are poo poo games that had to be relaunched

FF14 1.0 was so much worse than Wildstar ever was.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

Based on that post, I would identify the problem is that you only get a shot at the gear once per week.

If they let you run raids more than weekly half their end game players would end up dying at their keyboards.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

So are they keeping a decent playerbase or has it done the usual MMO post-launch drop off?

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Wonder Turbine posted:



I'm glad to see that the F2P transition has revitalized this under-appreciated masterpiece.

Well hey, at least you don't have to play The Siege of Tempest Refuge this way.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Anoia posted:

I saw mention a little while ago that the low level PVP brackets (Waliki Temple especially) are almost entirely dominated by bots, and Carbine still can't figure out what to do about it.

The idea of no one left but bots duking it out over those drat masks is just magical. :allears:

What do people even have to gain botting low level pvp zones :psyduck:

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005


On the one hand they've avoided the megathread dominance that plagues SA, but on the other hand no it isn't.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

John Dyne posted:

Not only this, but if you skip out on fighting that internet dragon to go do real life poo poo, half the time the people you were going to do it with get lovely about it and punish you for not helping them. Leave in the middle of a raid or miss one? 'Well we put you further down on the list' or some other passive aggressive bullshit. Hilariously, it also applies on the RP side of things; if you don't attend their scheduled plot events or whatever enough times, they just stop interacting with you.

MMO raiding is lovely and all, but it's perfectly reasonable to give someone lower priority if they have a history of bailing midway through/not showing and leaving the entire raid hanging. It's not surprising that games with structures that force these kinds of situations are dying.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

temple posted:

The biggest problem with raiding and I can't believe WoW still doesn't realize this is that you can't PUG them. Why can't you pug them? You need the right classes, the right number of players, the right gear levels, the right experience with the content, the right start time, and the right time commitment. Raiding is just barely a game. Its more of a job by all definitions. You compare raiding to just about any other game and it is easy to understand why raiding attracts a certain hardcore element because its too drat demanding. And that's just to start the raid.

I haven't played WoW since TBC but doesn't the LFR difficulty level solve exactly this problem?

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Rhymenoserous posted:

I still don't get the draw. Usually a MMO can suck me into the leveling draw, that one somehow failed.

It takes forever to get enough abilities to make combat interesting. Even still it's pretty standard. I think people just like it because it's a competently managed WoW-like that isn't WoW and has graphics from the current decade.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Rhymenoserous posted:

Bingo.

Edit: Also just flat out poor performance from the devs when fixing bugs. It wasn't unusual for them to declair a long standing bug finally fixed only to log in and find it was 3-4 times worse.

All around there was (And remains) some seriously poor quality control.

There was a thread on neogaf that someone linked awhile back where some ex-Carbine employeess posted some of why this was the case. The structure of the development team was ridiculously inefficient.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

I said come in! posted:

That is insane but not surprising. I mean Carbine advertised Warplots as a major feature of Widlstar. It was touted as something that made their game unique from everyone else, yet it seriously got zero support after it was implemented?

IIRC Warplots did get seen by an elite few who coordinated it just so they could say they did. You were supposed to be able to queue solo so you could hop into one of the dozens warplot fights going at any given moment as a "mercenary" but since virtually no one ever did them it's not surprising the options is greyed out.

I like how the warplot nodes you used to customize your warplot were max level architecture crafts that were tied to these time limited resources so each architect could make something like 1 or 2 of them per week max. And then if you lost they'd get destroyed.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

To be fair warplots probably would have been pretty neat if they were like 10v10, ran well, and didn't get destroyed if you lost.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Dividing your player base in two in a dying genre will always be a bad idea. The only reasons it worked for WoW is because it has a huge player base and there are a significant number of people who actually give a poo poo about the story/setting (shocking but true!)

Has there been any theme park MMO other than WoW that has done this that hasn't failed to some degree? I guess Rift lasted a decent amount of time.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Cyron posted:

WoW also had 3 full games wroth of story to build a following, people would roll horde/alliance because they like playing them in the rts games.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at when I said people cared about the lore.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

AbrahamLincolnLog posted:

It's probably a spaghetti code thing -- remember, the only reason we can't replace the 16 slot backpack with another bag is because according to Blizzard it is impossible to code it to do so without wildly changing the base game, and many triggers in game are still based on the death of invisible critters behind the environment.

The only way they could allow Horde and Alliance characters to communicate would be to teach every character in the game demon-ese. Every other option they've explored probably makes hunters explode into confetti or something

Ulvirich posted:

Blizzard makes an incredible amount of money on their "value added services."

As far as I know; for a long time, the Horde faction was considered to be The PvP faction to play as, it was only until fairly recent that changes to racial abilities caused a unheard of massive character faction change over to Alliance over perceived nerfing to Horde racial abilities. The change caused a massive influx of Alliance players which dramatically changed the PvP queue times for both factions, so much that Blizzard implemented a "Mercenary" mechanic that allows you to queue as an opposing faction to assist with queue times for battlegrounds because of how many people either race changed ($25), faction changed ($30), or bought level 90 characters ($60).

Does faction change allow you to stay the same race? Or does race change not allow you to change from Orc->Human?

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Mormon Star Wars posted:

If they actually do ditch the faction barrier and unlock all race / class combos, I will definitely throw some money their way to show support for increased casualization.

IIRC they planned to make all classes playable as all races, the reason they weren't initially (and now probably never will) is because they'd need to make new animations which the didn't budget money/man hours for initially.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Anoia posted:

WildStar was made for him.

I bet he'd play a Chua.

And rant non-stop about the moral degeneracy of those scantily clad Aurin :argh:

(that's what the rabbit people were called right?)

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Suitaru posted:

the Aion thing is horrifying enough but you ARE making this up, right

I remember Vindictus had a ton of rental only outfits last time I played it (quite a while ago). Mostly lingerie IIRC.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

ShadowMoo posted:

There was a bug that would wipe out the month long attunement to raids. If you got it you couldn't even try and attune again. The dev response to that initially was supposedly, 'Well, roll a new character'.

I think it was something that specifically affected guild leaders so it was perfectly focused to piss off their most hardcore customers. I guess they were also the ones most likely to go through the entire grind again, though.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

AbrahamLincolnLog posted:

I want to play a video game. Should it be Wildstar?

Play Realmz, imo.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

Meanwhile in an alternate universe, City of Heroes is seeing its most profitable year yet as superheros enter the mainstream fully and gain peak popularity.

I feel like at this point the game would be too old to attract anyone but longtime CoH players, even if it were still going.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Mizuti posted:

That's one of the things that keeps drawing me back to gawk at this trainwreck. They explicitly made a game aimed at ultra-hardcore grognards, then punished them for doing the raid content. What did they think would happen? Just how arrogant were the guys making these calls?

I think the ways raid guild would beat these bosses were considered bugs or exploits because they used unintended strategies to take down the bosses more easily than intended. Of course they resorted to this because the bosses were balanced to be literally unbeatable. Because the 40 man raid wasn't actually finished so that's how they gated it off.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Shy posted:

Why'd they kill it anyway? All I've read is too vague

I don't think they've ever given an explanation. They probably thought they could put the resources to better use.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Schubalts posted:

Look, NCsoft. You know it, we know it. Just put this money towards Lineage 3, like you wanted to all along.

If they play their cards right they could attract a playerbase up to 3% of the size of Lineage 1's!

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Anoia posted:

They had no clue how to balance classes in WHO, so PVP was always a roller coaster ride where your preferred class would dominate, then get nerfed into oblivion, and then improve by sheer virtue of some other class getting hamstrung. The back and forth was almost comical.

Also comical was WoW IMMEDIATELY stole the achievement log from them.

CoX was the first game to have a modern achievement system that I know of. Not that I've played every MMO or anything.

e: meant to say first MMO.

The Moon Monster fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Sep 6, 2016

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Asimo posted:

I suspect it was more that Mythic just fell into the trap of thinking that "separate but equal" for faction abilities would somehow work even despite all of vanilla WoW showing why it never would.

WAR was also a great example of why non-WOW games shouldn't divide the players into two non-interacting factions at all. I'm not sure any MMO has ever had its population crater that hard that fast, and if you didn't have enough people from both factions to PVP on your server the game was virtually unplayable.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

The straw that broke the camel's back for me on Wildstar is pretty funny/stupid. I had about 3 and half platinum to my name, which was enough to buy like half a year of game time. This was in the game's first month, dunno if the price for game item got much more expensive as time went on.

Anyway, I was going around buying pieces of mount flair you could get from rep vendors, generally for around 5-10 silver, a more or less negligible amount of money. So I find another vendor and buy some unremarkable saddlebag for the right side of a mount for 3 silver. Then I try to buy the left side saddlebag, but I can't and my money has gone down to 50 gold. It turned out the saddlebag had cost 3 platinum instead of 3 silver, which I didn't notice because the icon for platinum was almost identical to the icon for silver, and all the other mount flair pieces had cost low amounts of silver.

I hadn't actually used the flair yet but it only vended for something like 10 gold so I put it a support ticket to see if they could refund the item. Nope, their hands were tied. Like $70 worth of game time down the drain for some dumb, drab cosmetic item that I wouldn't be surprised if literally no one who played that game has ever used. It's been awhile so those numbers probably aren't exactly right, but I do distinctly remember it being enough money to buy half a year of game time almost all being wiped out by some saddlebag. To be fair it was as much my fault as anyone's but it sure did kill any enthusiasm I had remaining.

Rorus Raz posted:

Warhammer died for the same reason a lot of big MMOs die. Publishers wanted their WoW, but fail to remember that WoW cost a shitton of money and took just as much time. Publisher gets impatient and eventually forces the game to launch around the holiday season regardless of its current state. Players quickly get bored because there's no content, or it's buggy, or a variety of factors. Warhammer was missing a handful of classes, four capital cities, (literally 2/3s of the end game), and it was obvious they hadn't even begun balance passes for any of the classes. And with Wrath of the Lich King two months away, it's hardly surprising the game crashed and burned.

poo poo, even WoW wasn't immune to this, and I think most would agree the game was launched prematurely. No PvP system, classes getting finished mere weeks prior to launch, and there'd be one raid for over half a year. WoW survived because there was nothing else like it at the time.

Not to excuse Mythic entirely. They sucked at balance and their PR was like a snakeoil pitch loaded with complete lies.

I wonder if they would have been better off waiting 6 months for people to cool off from Lich King. Probably not Since I hear Lich King was the best expansion WoW ever did. It seems like they were kinda screwed on the launch window unless they wanted to delay the game, like, a full year. In retrospect that may have actually been the right call.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Inzombiac posted:

I miss Tabula Rasa.

I only played the beta but that seemed pretty cool.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

a cat on an apple posted:

Two of the Adventures could just bug. At least. I remember Malgrave Trails if you tried to trigger something too early then you could soft-lock it and have to abandon the quest, and I remember the one Tower Defense Adventure it just.. didn't work, sometimes. I want to say that you could bug the DotA Adventure, too, but I'm not entirely certain about that one.

The poo poo thing about the MOBA adventure was that you could beat it really quickly and easily, but the only way to get a gold rating, which was the only way to get worthwhile loot, was to intentionally stall for like ten minutes so you could grind kills on the enemy heroes and wait for the bonus objectives to pop up. Some of the bonus objectives were really easy, but others were like "kill enemy X within 2 minutes" and unless you knew where the enemy was right then you might not even be able to find it in two minutes. There were also a few like "capture a control point" or "kill a boss" so you couldn't do those things while stalling or else you might not have any to complete if they popped up as an objective.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

30.5 Days posted:

I don't think it'd pop up uncompletable objectives, it's just that those objectives were consistently completable in the time limit so you wanted them to be in the pool of missions to up your chances of success. By the way, this adventure dropped the best in slot weapon for tank stalkers but only if you gold medalled it. And then they "fixed" medals to reduce LFG friction.

I definitely would pop up uncompletable objectives at one point, but now that you mention it I think they fixed that after a few days.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

rum sodomy Rainbow Dash posted:

If I remember correctly, GW2 was suposed to have regular expansion packs like the original, as opposed to the...one they've had in the past four years since launch.

I'm curious as to what caused the small spike in Wildstar numbers. I'd say the new raid, but who hears "New Raid in Wildstar!" and thinks "Oh poo poo I gotta get in on that!"

Well, I think their "living story" stuff is kind of like mini-expansion packs. Not on the level of GW1 though.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

The thing I didn't like about GW2 was how they give you 5 skills on your bar (iirc, it has been awhile), and only 1 or 2 of them would actually deal good damage. Most of the combat wasn't actually very hard, so you'd just sort of kill time with your tricksy skills while waiting for the ones that actually dealt damage to come off cooldown. It was a lot more satisfying when the game was hard enough to force you to use your entire toolkit, but the whole system seemed designed for PvP at the expense of making PvE tedious.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Minrad posted:

Maple story? Maple story.

Could have sworn the max level in FFXI was 70 when I played it at the NA launch. I quit at around 44, though.

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The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Farg posted:

how the gently caress do you spend 40k on a game and get to level 60/250

Given the exp curves in those games I'd be surprised if he was even 10% of the way to max. Yikes.

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