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Those images of the cyborg figure are Kylo before they decided to go with just a regular guy. Some of the spoilers talk about his Hamlet moment with Vader's mask. Snoke definitely shows up in the snow fight. There's that one piece of concept art with him standing over Ren/Finn. He is a sorta sickly alien/snake guy wearing a breather. This goes against the leaked info, which doesn't really mention Luke or Snoke at all. Seems like they kept a really, really tight lid on Act III.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:39
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The political situation is a mess and I wish there were a scene that sort of explained what was going on. My general impression is that Hux was pretty much a regional governor. Snoke didn't seem too concerned about his failure. We get this idea that the FO is spreading through the galaxy, but is the Republic actively fighting it? The Resistance seems sort of small. Rey's leveling up was sort of odd too. Not quite sure what to make of her character.
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Dec 20, 2015 09:13
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The basic idea of the crew going on an adventure to find Luke is a good one. But then you have this awful retread of the Starkiller base, with no real sense of space or weight to the fights outside of the confrontation with Kylo. The X-wing attack is lifeless and just takes away from what we actually care about. You could have had act III take place practically anywhere with the same consequences.
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Dec 23, 2015 09:38
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The Prequels aren't bad movies. TPM, considered the worst Prequel by most, is shot better than TFA.
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Jan 5, 2016 08:21
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I like Jar Jar, but I think he overwhelms TPM. Obi-wan really does jack poo poo the entire movie. An odd choice, given how Binks fades away into obscurity and Obi-wan becomes the protagonist. TPM as a whole just feels very disconnected from what comes after, narratively and aesthetically. The best part about TPM is that Anakin comes off as a sweet, caring, and genuinely good kid. Lloyd does a great job and it's a shame that people torn him to pieces for no discernible reason.
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Jan 5, 2016 08:59
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Maul isn't a strong enough character to carry an entire trilogy. I would have rather seen Dooku running things. He's in the shadows in I, reveals himself in II, and finally dies in III more or less the same way. The revelation at the end of II that Dooku was really working for Sidious the entire time highlights the blindness of the Jedi, as their attachment to the Rule of Two prevented them possibly entertaining the notion that Palpatine was behind it all. Maul and Obi-wan are complete non-characters in TPM. Maul is a silent enforcer out for revenge against the Jedi. Obi-wan is a boring, racist rear end in a top hat with no empathy or connection to the living Force. Jar Jar is a "thing" and he worries that they've brought another "pathetic life form" on board. He refers to Maul as an "it" when it was clearly some guy.
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Jan 5, 2016 10:42
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I don't know if Obi-wan being kind of a useless poo poo head is bad writing per se. It drives home a certain point, doesn't it? He's the product of Jedi training. He's the star pupil of the Jedi Order and more than capable of passing the "Jedi trials" whatever those are. Yet he has no regard for life forms he considers inferior, so it's odd that he is tasked with training Anakin. The opening of Clones tells us all we need to know about Obi-wan's training and the Jedi Order: it's turned a sweet, innocent kid who cares about his friends and wants to do the right things into kind of an rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 5, 2016 11:07
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I liked it but it's a dirty sort of feeling. Probably one of the most deceptive scripts ever, and the Skinner's Box filmmaking didn't hurt. The Man Behind the Curtain made his presence too obvious, imploring me to feel X or Y emotion at this precise moment. The movie is clumsy.
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Dec 15, 2017 06:53
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Inescapable Duck posted:I'm kinda disappointed we didn't get to learn anything more about Snoke, it seems like he had some interesting origins to get into. Maybe we haven't seen the last of him. I think they decided at some point that keeping him around would draw inevitable comparisons to Palpatine, whom they couldn't possible beat.
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Dec 15, 2017 07:08
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Rey, a junkyard kid born to a couple of alcoholic nobodies, is the Chosen One of the Actual Revolution and the living embodiment of the Force, whose goal is the total liberation of the weak and oppressed and the destruction of the strict hierarchy separating Jedi and non-Jedi, humanoid and droid. Anakin and Kylo, indoctrinated from an early age, are used as mere tools to artificially bring balance to the force by leading a new generation of young Jedi enforcers who will watch and protect a hapless and corrupt Republic from itself. Both are failed by their masters, who - like Snoke - use their vulgar magic space powers to "read" them without really understanding them. Both rightly see the corrupt institutions surrounding them as The Problem, and decide to achieve Perfection through the blunt instrument of force. The Jedi qua Jedi, that is, as a group of midichlorianed-up ubermensch, need to be destroyed, and Rey is the instrument of their destruction. Whether or not Disney will follow through with this idea remains to be seen. Probably not. KaptainKrunk fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Dec 15, 2017 |
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Dec 15, 2017 08:00
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Ren's character is basically the realization of "The Empire would have been Good if Vader instead of that weird wrinkly gently caress were in charge" but it's Anakin instead.
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Dec 15, 2017 08:11
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Nessus posted:I think somehow that if your way of wiping the slate clean and bringing balance to the galaxy is to become leader of a fascist army that blows up planets, maybe - just maybe - your view on society can't be trusted outright, even if a guy said "midichlorian" a few movies back. That's all a cover for his personal vendetta against the institutions and people that hurt him.
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Dec 15, 2017 08:44
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Kylo is literally the lanky, awkward bully in the group of bullies who gets hit a lot and kinda laughs it off but resents it. Then he murders the bully.
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Dec 15, 2017 08:52
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I liked how they took the time to explain that they couldn't just FTL outta there because the FO would just follow them and they'd be out of fuel. But then they don't even bother to explain why the First Order can't call for reinforcements to cut them off, or swarm the cruiser with the surely thousands of tie fighters they have.
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Dec 15, 2017 08:56
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There's as much dumb poo poo in this movie as TFA but there are actually effective set pieces and good character arcs. It's okay I guess.
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Dec 15, 2017 09:34
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Milky Moor posted:For what, killing the Resistance more promptly? Yeah, surely Snoke would be even more mad when they get away. He doesn't give a gently caress about expendable TIEs or whatever. He didn't care when his Death Star 3 blew up.
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Dec 15, 2017 09:51
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Chickenwalker posted:Good Lord how is this movie getting good reviews? It is absolute trash from a script standpoint. The same reason every bad Marvel movie gets good reviews?
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Dec 15, 2017 10:06
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Chickenwalker posted:Good Lord how is this movie getting good reviews? It is absolute trash from a script standpoint. The sheer number of "build to a specific moment then - HAH! GOTCHA!" and forced comedy became a bit tiring.
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Dec 15, 2017 10:14
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The film flirts with an anti-reactionary egalitarian message before ultimately deciding that the Jedi Order should be recreated, that Luke will be a legend, not by training a new order of psychic enforcers that live apart and above an ultimately corrupt, ineffectual Republic but by inspiring the oppressed with a sanitized message about his martial prowess and bravery. The ultimate goal of the Resistance is still the restoration of the Republic, a political system which by its very nature turns a blind eye to injustice in the galaxy, and fundamentally can't deal with the fascists, the arms dealers, the megacorporations, and slavers.
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Dec 16, 2017 02:06
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The only ideologically acceptable ending to the trilogy lies in the moral redemption of not only Kylo, but Hux and the whole First Order through the power of love.
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Dec 16, 2017 02:34
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Is it any surprise that a bunch of people idolizing failed institutions fail again?
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Dec 16, 2017 03:10
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Zeris posted:I’m very curious about the involvement of Snoke in Ben’s training, since Leia and Luke have both referred to it at length now. But aside from that, I’m quite happy to accept the message that the past is the past and there’s nothing to be gained from examining it; what matters is facing things as they are now. Sounds like a rationalization for their own failure. Luke couldn't have failed because he is Wise and Good. Ben couldn't have been bad because he's the son of Good people.
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Dec 16, 2017 03:14
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In no way does the slow cruiser chase - the plot device around which the entire film revolves - make any sort of sense, even by Star Wars's fast and loose standards.
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Dec 16, 2017 05:11
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Why don't they send TIE fighters to attack the cruiser (which has no ships to defend itself with and is facing its shields backwards)? You know, the thing they did earlier in the movie and were wildly successful doing.
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Dec 16, 2017 05:18
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BardoTheConsumer posted:Why risk TIE pilots when the enemy is inevitably boned? Ah yes, the First Order caring so much about its slaves. We saw Kylo and a two of them take out the bridge. It's also explicitly stated that the Resistance has allies in the Outer Rim, so they could have arrived to help. Or they could have taken off on transports and slipped away. There's no reason not to just finish them right away, and we're not even given a throwaway line about how Hux wants to make them suffer and slowly realize they are doomed IIRC, or about how he wants to draw out their allies (that never come anyway, but it'd go a long way towards explaining their otherwise stupid actions).
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Dec 16, 2017 05:25
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TFA, Rogue One, and TLJ are all bad in different ways, which is probably statistically harder than making okay movies.
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Dec 16, 2017 10:24
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I'd have to see it again but doesn't Hux complain about not being able to crush them right away, and to keep firing to remind them "that we're still here." I dunno, seems like a more effective characterization for Hux or whomever to call back the TIEs, say how he wants to watch them squirm. The enjoyment they get out of picking off the support ships is sadistic, yes, but they don't seem to be enjoying the chase. Milky Moor posted:The very start of the film has Snoke slamming Hux around because the Resistance fleet escaped and took out a dreadnaught in the process. The obvious implication is that he wants them dead and dead promptly. Snoke is obviously very unhappy with Hux! I found this moment weird. Thought there'd be some sort of traitor, but it's just a boring tracking device that only one ship is using... KaptainKrunk fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Dec 16, 2017 |
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Dec 16, 2017 11:07
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Doronin posted:Now that I've had a nap and digesting what I saw some more -- so Rey's parents were just junk dealers? Were they just Iden Versio and that guy from the recent video game? Snoke, like Luke, uses his magic space powers to see into Kylo without really understanding him. Luke sees darkness, but doesn't understand that the darkness stems from his own failings as a teacher, the absent parents, and the reconstitution of a corrupt Republic and Jedi Order. His first reaction when faced with this darkness is to ignite his light saber and consider murdering his nephew instead of him talking to him, understanding him, loving him. Snoke believes himself to be invincible because of his overwhelming ability to read minds and shoot zappy lightning. He can't be betrayed, like the Emperor was by Vader, because he has Mind Reading Level 3 instead of 1. This is his undoing. KaptainKrunk fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Dec 17, 2017 |
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Dec 17, 2017 01:03
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No one really gives a poo poo about the Resistance because they're a black ops group secretly funded to stir poo poo up and fight for the restoration of a Republic no one cared for, not the liberation of the weak and oppressed.
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Dec 17, 2017 01:09
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Yeah the messaging is really mixed, probably to give them maximum flexibility for 9.
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Dec 17, 2017 01:20
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If they don't take out the dreadnought, they would have all died.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:42
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I forget - did Snoke's ship show up before or after the Dreadnought was destroyed?
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Dec 17, 2017 23:52
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Leia says he can't solve all of their problems by blowing poo poo up. She's right. The Resistance can't beat the First Order militarily - although Poe does save the Resistance thanks to his reckless actions. Poe's entire character arc is basically learning that a successful insurgency can't just inflict more damage on its upon than it receives, but has to conserve its strength and inspire the people. This transforms the Resistance from a black ops holdover into the vanguard of a Maoist revolution.
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Dec 18, 2017 00:45
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Jose Oquendo posted:In Luke's Jedi hut, where he talks about the Jedi and Sith, you know that little pool of water? This is the mosaic there: looks like Coppola's Dracula
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Dec 18, 2017 00:56
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Rirse posted:Until Holdo decided to go with her I thought there'd be something inside Finn, maybe a tracker or some sort of "switch" to make him turn, considering the cut from "We have them on the end of a string" right to his unconscious face.
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Dec 18, 2017 01:37
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death, I thought she would be revealed as a traitor, with her being the one who put the light drive tracker on the ship exchange for something like her life or planet.
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Hobo Clown posted:I've already seen theories that the main reason they demonstrated Luke using force projection was so that we're not surprised when it's revealed that Snoke was doing it too and that he's still the Big Bad. Nah, Snoke's dead. Holograms don't fall in half like that. At some point, he might have intended to be a hologram, but that probably changed to just focus on the character people actually like as the villain.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:03
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Wolfsheim posted:Hey, was Po originally supposed to die in TFA? It's kinda setup for that to be the case since he doesn't really do anything noteworthy after he and Finn crash at the beginning. Poe wasn't supposed to survive the crash. IIRC before reshoots Finn's character arcs was supposed to go from realizing what he was doing was wrong -> trying to run away -> feeling guilty about his knowledge of the SKB (which he knew a lot about) -> redemption by sacrificing himself for Rey. Then he was made into a janitor with no obvious guilt. It kinda deflates TFA when getting slashed across the back had no obvious repercussions. Finn, Rey, and Poe all have good moments on their own, but their interactions are weird and their character arcs are stunted as gently caress, with Finn essentially re-running his arc from the first film.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:30
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Ginette Reno posted:At this point it's hard to say Yoda is right. This film pushes hard towards the idea that the Force wants balance in all things. If the Sith win, a Jedi rises, and vice versa. I'd therefore argue that both sides are equally strong and necessary aspects of the universe. Both sides of the Force wax and wane in strength but things always equal out. The sequels are ideologically suspect because they resist the idea of the perfectibility of man, a common liberal trope. As you've said, they took the idea of the "balance" seriously, with the light and dark sides being literal metaphysical flavors of the Force, such that Star Wars will never end, there will always be a good to rise up against the bad and vice versa. The view of the Jedi in the prequels - that the dark side is a cancer on the force, caused by those with malicious intent, fear, hatred and greed in their heart - is broadly correct, but the Jedi fail to realize that the Republic and they themselves are part of it. Bringing balance to the Force means redeeming the Sith through love and compassion, not destroying them through violence. KaptainKrunk fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 21:31
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The throne room scene is more poorly choreographed than anything in the prequels.
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Dec 27, 2017 21:39
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Basebf555 posted:It's dirtier, more clumsy, but in a way that I think makes it feel more genuine, like it's people really trying to hack each other up. I'd need to see it a second time to really make a final judgment though. Nah. The prequel fights are clearly choreographed and don't try to hide it. They embrace it. The Kylo-Rey fight in TFA is a good example of a choreographed fight that manages to feel naturalistic and "real," for what it is. The Throne Room fight takes this halfway point between the prequels clear choreography, a raw fight, and a samurai-inspired standoff that feels really clunky.
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Dec 27, 2017 21:45
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