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Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Best to post something positive along with that or Trabisnikof will call you a climate change denier.

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Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

brakeless posted:

Gave a little talk today at my school on geoengineering.

School as in where you attend or where you attended? If geoengineering is part of your career, I'd be interested in reading about what you do.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Arkane posted:

Food scarcity is a completely idiotic bogeyman.

I like how your graph stops at the year that phosphate shortage is predicted to become a thing.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

DolphinCop posted:

although the hyperfertilizer is apparently more effective for grasses than it is for stalks, meaning america's nonsensically excessive corn production won't be as incentivised to get with the program, which is a bummer

Not that I'm doubting your uncle, but as I understand it, the major grain crops (corn, wheat, etc) actually are grasses.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Kurt_Cobain posted:

This new yorker article mentioned something I hadn't heard before, raised streets

"Building up" is a pretty traditional response to flooding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_of_Chicago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Underground

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

New study claiming that a lot more people than previously thought currently experience severe water scarcity. About half a billion year-round, with another 3.5 billion at least one month of the year.

The study: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/2/e1500323.full
Washington Post article on the study that spoke to one of the researchers: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/02/12/the-world-has-even-bigger-water-problems-than-we-thought/

Rime posted:

Edit: It's 4am and climate change is not the climbing thread.

Climbate Change: Are We Headed for an Insurmountable Cliff?

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Uranium Phoenix posted:

I don't think we should conflate hopelessness with denialism. You can criticize someone who feels hopeless for inaction, but I think many of the people who are feeling hopeless still do things, they just realize how inadequate their individual actions are.

It's Trabisnikof. Anyone who doesn't agree with him is in some stage of climate change denial.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Isaac0105 posted:

"A given?" Please. Right now even human survival over the next century isn't a given, let alone an unprecedented shift in energy production which (according to you) is a given because of a pilot project and an underdeveloped technology. All I am calling for is realism.

If you seriously think the human race may not last another 100 years, you and realism aren't in the same boat.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Isaac0105 posted:

Human extinction is definitely possible. It's been possible for a while actually, it's just that the odds have seemingly been very low. So for instance, we never ended up having a terminal thermonuclear war between the Soviet Union and the United States - but the reason that failed to happen was not because it couldn't happen, but because we just got lucky. There were plenty of close calls - read up about these two incidents, as one example. Now of course there were ifs - maybe that nuclear torpedo would not have triggered a nuclear war if it had been launched. Or maybe the war would not have wiped out humanity - there are simulations saying it would have, but these were criticized.

But you see I'm not saying it is likely (or has been likely), I'm saying it is possible. I'd hate to depress you pal, but reality does not offer any guarantees. And "realism" means dealing with the world as it is, not the Disney version where everything works out in the end.

Now you're just being dishonest. We're talking about the possibility of the consequences of climate change leading to human extinction, not nuclear warfare. If you'd like to seriously discuss the possibility of nuclear warfare, find or create a thread for it.

"Possible" does not also equal "realistic". It's possible that flipping a (fair) coin a hundred times in a row will result in a hundred instances of heads, but it's not realistic to assume that scenario has a reasonable chance of occurring.

So, find us some reliable evidence that the consequences of climate change have a reasonable chance of bringing about human extinction within 100 years. Best of luck with that, because there isn't any.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

The problem is, climate doesn't really work like that. A climate suitable for producing one catalyzing megadisaster (or perfect storm of disasters) is suitable for producing multiple megadisasters.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Back to the libertarian threads with you, jrod. The Cato Institute isn't a reliable source.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Triglav posted:

Is there anything wrong with climate change?

Mountains and rivers move, populations and species come and go.

We over-populated and over-consumed. Maybe the best way to save the Earth is to burn it all down and start again from bugs. Future earthlings might even find our mass graves turned into the hydrocarbons we loved.

Anti-human perspectives aren't really relevant. You're also ignoring that we don't really know where the "tipping point" is for when warming trends become self-sustaining (for example, when permafrost melts) and Earth is locked in to becoming a second Venus without intervention via geoengineering.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Rime posted:

Give up on keeping up with the Jone's, espouse YOLO in all things and don't give a gently caress about what might happen.

An attitude which would make a large portion of the population happier, regardless of almost certain impending doom.

Do you think your crippling depression and near-homelessness might have anything to do with the perpetual attitude of hopelessness you espouse in this thread?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

LLSix posted:

While I'm asking about the percent agreement on AGW and it's likely impact, where does that 3% contrarian come from? I've always just kind of assumed that coal and oil company money is buying them that much but more and more that'd be a huge number of flatly fraudulent papers.

Having research funded by the fossil fuels industry is a thing, but there's also just a small collection of wingnuts with PhDs on most every topic within a given discipline. For example, there are a handful of geologists who actually believe that oil isn't formed from organic material.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

TildeATH posted:

Anthropogenic, you idiot.

Maybe the furries/otherkin/etc have just gotten even weirder.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Femur posted:

For people who think we give a poo poo about what we say.


I believe keeping the status quo is the only thing that matters, and we're just gonna just adjust to mega cities, mega slums, whatever.

I guess that's damning to people who expect PACs to be single-issue organizations (and for that issue to be climate change).

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Trabisnikof posted:

Most everything we can do now won't go far enough, but that's because the scale of our problem and the realities of systemic inertia, but that inertia is the exact reason we must act and act now in all the ways we political and socially can even if those ways aren't perfect or "enough".

Unless it's an initiative to try and get people to stop breeding quite so much.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

smoke sumthin bitch posted:

carbon taxes are regressive and disproportionately burden the poor

So you're totally on board with a carbon tax as long as low-income taxpayers are subsidized to make up the difference, then?

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

TildeATH posted:

That's the comically wrong jet stream guy, right?

Please tell me this is some kind of comically wrong graph.

Because, poo poo, man, I liked polar bears.

Yeah, I think he's off the mark. The NSIDC graphs for arctic and antarctic sea ice don't match his at all.




e: Went and looked at the twitter post that had the graph. He even includes the same two NSIDC images. I have no idea how he's combining them to get that.

e2: What the gently caress. Look at the totals. Eight million arctic and fifteen million antarctic makes twenty-three million right now. This dude's own graph only ever reached twenty-three million in the 1980s.

Hello Sailor fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Nov 14, 2016

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

There was an A/T thread some years back started by a goon who had a home aquaponic setup going. He kept his fish fed by growing duckweed and said that it took about 2 pounds of duckweed to raise 1 pound of tilapia from fry to adult. Since the fish crap went on to become fertilizer used to rapidly grow crops that adapted well to his method (tomatoes did very well, as I recall), that's hardly a terrible return on investment in lieu of just eating the duckweed directly.

e: Might be misremembering on the fish a bit. I think he just raised tropical fish as pets and got the 2:1 duckweed:fish ratio from other aquaponics enthusiasts.

Hello Sailor fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Nov 26, 2016

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Stallion Cabana posted:

just convince Donald you can somehow gold plate Solar panels and get him to invest in them.

He's nakedly just aiming for his own profit so if you can get him to invest in Solar and Wind he'll go whole hog for it.

"Trump Solar settled out-of-court today to resolve plaintiffs' claims that their solar panels, which were advertised as "the greatest solar panels money can buy", in fact only returned an average of .5% of their cost in electricity savings before breaking down, often in less than six months."

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Notorious R.I.M. posted:

Dumping a species in 2100-level pH water ignores the 80 years that happens in between. But I do agree that the rate of acidification is terrifying. The faster pH drops, the fewer generations anything will have to adapt.

Also, which is more likely, that ocean systems will have a linear pH increase with increasing levels of carbonic acid or that ocean systems are buffered? Because if it's the latter, as soon as we hit the tipping point, the rate speeds up exponentially.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Get angry, stay angry.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Fangz posted:

Interesting stuff. What about paper/cardboard? Or replacing plastics with paper/cardboard?

If you're recycling the material, plastic is generally better than paper. It takes less energy to make a plastic product than an equivalent paper one.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

A Buttery Pastry posted:

And yes, I know, the last map I posted probably wasn't the best way to make people take my posts seriously, but I hope you can all look past that. :v:

The map was just icing on the cake.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

No other marine ecosystem has managed to withstand unmanaged fishing. What do you think?

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

ChairMaster posted:

Not all nihilists are suicidal, some people do stuff just because they feel like it. I just don't like the idea of people wasting so much time and effort towards a greater good that cannot materalise when they could be putting that time and effort into making their own lives better instead.

Well then, gently caress off. Go try to convince climate change deniers to give up.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

The Ender posted:

...So, we're pretty much down to trying to somehow solve climate change through individual action now then, right? Since the state has catastrophically failed and is obviously not going to be able to respond in time even if somehow Democrats manage to stop being comical losers long enough to hold power again?

:|


FML

Pretty sure there is no good outlook going forward from there, both because people are too stupid & petty to make sufficient changes on their own and because the footprints of private homes aren't large enough even if we could magically convince everyone to reduce their energy consumption.

In the US, there's always the court system. I'm taking Environmental Law & Reg this semester and current events are an inevitable part of the discussion. A large part of the Trump administration's problems are going to stem from them not really having any idea how their branch of government works or the checks placed upon them.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

That's a pretty good post/custom title combo.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Has anyone sent this to Trump? It's from the Russian Academy of Science, so he might believe it.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

RobotDogPolice posted:

I'm going to community college right now with the intention of transferring to a university. I've been gravitating toward biology and it's evident to me how much of a problem climate change will be. What majors should I pursue if I want to help? I live in Seattle now, are there good places to intern?

What can I expect in the area in terms of climate change over the next few decades? If I'm 30 now, can I even plan on staying here until I'm old?

I went back to school for a bachelors in environmental engineering and have about a year left to go. Engineering degrees usually pay well and you definitely don't need a doctorate (masters is debatable). I did as much as I could at CC before transferring to a university, which knocked out about half of my degree requirements at about a fourth of the price. My plan is to spend a couple years working for a state regulatory agency, which should give me a good foot in the door pretty much anywhere else.

If no nearby universities specifically offer an env eng program, you can do civil or chemical and use your engineering electives to give you an environmental focus.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

According to the study, they think it's likely that increased erosion in the river the glacier is now discharging to will eventually connect it back to the Slims.

e: Just rechecked after reading the study yesterday and erosion is expected to connect the river to the lake the Slims drained into, not the Slims itself.

Hello Sailor fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Apr 19, 2017

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here


I'm taking a particularly Carlinesque pleasure from these bits:

quote:

“Nobody thinks it’s coming as fast as it is,” said Dan Kipnis, the chairman of Miami Beach’s Marine and Waterfront Protection Authority, who has been trying to find a buyer for his home in Miami Beach for almost a year, and has already lowered his asking price twice.

Some South Florida homeowners, stuck in a twist on the prisoner’s dilemma, are deciding to sell now—not necessarily because they want to move, but because they’re worried their neighbors will sell first.

...

Marla Martin, a spokeswoman for Florida’s association of realtors, said that while “of course climate change is on the radar for our members,” she hadn’t heard of clients selling homes because of sea-level rise.

“I think the scientists are still trying to get a handle on it,” she wrote in an email.

It's starting.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

I'm all for this. Clearly Smith intends this to be a two-way street and wants to include scientists on business and economic advisory boards.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Libluini posted:

You know, I first wanted to write down this long text explaining why this issue could potentially cause huge military disasters, but I realized that would come with the danger of an American general reading this on SA. So instead I just say: Yes, yes you're 100% right. It would be no issue whatsoever.

Edit:

In fact, hypothetical US-general reading this, please disregard my earlier post, too.

Please do elaborate on how our continual satellite coverage of the earth could fail to notice the disappearance of a beach over a couple of decades.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Those GT of CO2-equivalent reductions are just estimates for implementation only in the US, right?

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

BattleMoose posted:

Thirdly, and repeating ad nuasem, unsubstantiated claims get rejected.

Equally ad nauseum, the substantiation of the claims are in the book, you enormous fuckwit.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Deltasquid posted:

His parting shot to me was "There's no problem the free market can't fix. And the government is never a solution. Remember that." so I think he was a lost cause no matter what. :smith:

"Markets require government in order to exist, fuckwit.

Love, Econ 101"

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

Burt Buckle posted:

Really cool picture.

Question. Is desalinazation impractical for financial reasons or other reasons? Also you know how we have pipelines across states for oil? Would such a system of pipes be possible to transport water long distances?

Desalination processes are energy-intensive, which is where a chunk of the expense comes in. So, if the energy source isn't nuclear or renewable, then it also increases atmospheric carbon.

There was some promising research in greatly reducing the energy usage by filtering saltwater through a carbon nanotube mesh, but I haven't heard anything recent about it.

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Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

a fuckwit with 20/20 hindsight posted:

And which of those outcomes was obviously going to occur when Borlaug set his monster loose. We're not even touching on the environmental catastrophe from the intensive farming itself, mind, but just the human suffering which was inevitable to occur under existing socioeconomic systems. He knew his work would cause a population explosion, he knew it would require farming techniques which would sterilize the soil after a few decades of intensive use. He couldn't possibly have not foreseen this.

"Good Intentions in a broken system" does not absolve him from causing the lives, suffering, and deaths of several hundred million people who would otherwise not have existed. It was the worst kind of god-playing. :colbert:

"Some of the environmental lobbyists of the Western nations are the salt of the earth, but many of them are elitists. They've never experienced the physical sensation of hunger. They do their lobbying from comfortable office suites in Washington or Brussels. If they lived just one month amid the misery of the developing world, as I have for fifty years, they'd be crying out for tractors and fertilizer and irrigation canals and be outraged that fashionable elitists back home were trying to deny them these things." - Norman Borlaug

Hello Sailor fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Jul 4, 2017

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