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clamiam45 posted:I don't think this is economics... The problem here from my perspective is WotC's pretending that there is a good reason to not reprint cards more aggressively. Speaking more generally, I think they're too accepting of status quo relationships with second parties. They've lacked any kind of solid vision and were happy with the status quo for years which is why they've been embarrassed by Hearthstone. They made the game such a tough sell because drafting is expensive, especially when you are new or bad at it, and playing constructed is a ridiculous investment for a new player, compared to Hearthstone where you can spend nothing, or spend a fraction of the amount and start playing with a competitive deck. I started actually playing again when they reintroduced leagues, but the competition lets people pay little or nothing in comparison, and has a much more visually appealing game. I don't even understand how people can watch the Pro Tour, you can't see anything. They should have the feature matches played through MTGO. They should have been throwing their weight behind the digital side of the game for years.
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Feb 6, 2017 00:10
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mcmagic posted:I think Scrapheap Scrounger is close to banworthy but they can't ban it. heh They would ban Heart or Kiran first. All scrappy ever does is drive, it's not like he gets played other than to enable vehicles. This standard is a mess though.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:10
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GonSmithe posted:Kamigawa/Ravnica Standard was the objective best Not even the best standard with Ravnica, since RAV/TSP was better. I liked Shards/Zendikar standard the best. Both Jaces, bloodbraid elf and Nicol Bolas/Cruel Ultimatum all legal in the same format, where mono red and vampire tribal were actual decent decks.
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Feb 7, 2017 21:49
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The issue with magic is they only go after whales. You can't, for instance, do phantom drafts online, you need 3 packs and two tix. They could sell a lot more drafts if they were 5 bucks instead of 15 or whatever it works out to, but they aren't interested, god knows why. They could have cube around all the time but they aren't interested because .... I don't know, they're afraid the set won't sell well, even though fewer people drafting means the value will go up and it will self correct. They set out to make an affordable legacy and blamed the reprint policy on the cost of the format, then proceeded to make it have exactly the same price issues legacy has, if to a slightly smaller degree sometimes. Theres a serious lack of long term vision and ambition at the top, things like the client and the costs are a joke compare to competitors, so despite being a great game it's barely relevant anymore.
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Feb 11, 2017 17:22
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GoutPatrol posted:I went looking at the 2012(?) world championship on youtube and they had cube as a format. Think about how much that would rule now. I mean, they've had cube working for years now. Why can't I cube draft at any time? Why isn't it available whenever? Their decisions are laughable, they get in the way of their own successes.
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Feb 16, 2017 03:46
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Sigma-X posted:Why would you play anything other than Cube? Seriously. Why would you ever open a new set pack and draft that? Coming up with ways to entice me to crack packs and draft other formats is their job. If I want to play cube all day, offering me an inferior product or nothing isn't a solution. I don't draft the current format most of the time anyway, all the policy does is see me spend my time and money elsewhere. I can't imagine anyone trying to seriously defend this policy, especially when it wasn't like all the time cube was tried and failed, it's never even been attempted which is insane. They've been happy to rest on their laurels and nickel and dime players (4-3-2-2, lol) for years, to the detriment of the game.
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Feb 16, 2017 04:51
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Serperoth posted:When The Dark was printed, words such as "apply", "layer", "effect", and "appropriate" weren't a thing in Magic Who cares? I'm cracking packs for motherfucking Uncle Istvan
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Feb 16, 2017 16:53
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Losing knowledge of your opponents deck thanks to a singleton format isn't worth an extra 1.5 hours of downtime per draft. As a benefit it seems to finally be teaching people to draft cooperatively with the people next to them, which they should have been doing anyway but now people aren't hate drafting third pick when they know there's virtually no chance they play against a particular card. It was always wrong but it seems to have finally gotten through to people and I see much better passing/signaling than I did in the old 8-4s.
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Feb 19, 2017 17:14
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They originally defended Goyf and Bob at mythic due to them being rares from sets before mythics, right? As in, they were about as rare as mythics before they existed. Snapcaster is going to be heavily played in every eternal format forever it wouldn't hurt to have a few more of them around.
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Feb 28, 2017 18:42
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:This is literally the same thing as locking movies away in The Disney Vault (TM). Hahah the Disney Vault is beyond idiotic. I thought my sister was joking about it until I went in search of some Disney movies for my niece and nephew. It's a bad sign when my sister who would gladly pay full price for Blu Rays asks me to pirate a bunch of movies so her kids can watch Disney classics. Rap Record Hoarder posted:Has there ever been a company as resistant to turning a profit or growing their market share as WOTC? They're incredibly risk averse to their own detriment, especially the digital side of the game. These sets would sell more and cards would retain value if they pushed harder for more players because demand for cards is going to increase the more people are playing the game.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:28
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evilweasel posted:There's a certain print run that makes sense. It's not whatever the market will buy, because then you're killing your ability to do them in the future. I doubt WOTC or anyone could actually know what that number is, they should be printing them at a reasonable price point for as long as they'll sell. There are so many factors you aren't considering if your goal is just to maintain some arbitrary card value, like brand loyalty or even demand for the game in general. What do you think happens when a new player wants to get into modern and finds all the packs are sold out? Magic isn't the only, or even the biggest, game in town, they'll switch to something else, and WOTC loses a current sale and a future sale. They're continued concern for the value of the secondary market is one of their biggest mistakes, I think they should be trying more aggressively to keep the price of some of their higher costing cards down.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:14
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*sips New Coke loudly* They have access to marketing research you don't have. Don't question the decisions of a profitable company. >>> sent from My Blackberry.
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Mar 2, 2017 19:56
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Angry Grimace posted:Banning cards isn't bad. It makes the format better when they ban stuff. The fact that a card is bannable is bad. I'd rather they unban cards before banning more, and I can't even imagine why anyone would want Marvel to be banned it isn't even in the top three decks in the format. Felidar Guardian and that entire combo is simply awful to play against, and forces decks to either blind race it and hope or play a really awful game of magic. It's not fun to have the game end immediately from turn 6 on regardless of board state even with no nonland permanents in play. I've actually won more games against it than I've lost, but that deck will only get better, and currently with Elder deep fiend it's just a complete chore to play against. I hated Twin in standard and they probably waited too long to ban it from modern, which at least gives you the correct tools to answer it properly.
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Mar 2, 2017 22:29
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BJPaskoff posted:I think I've told this story before. The saltiest opponent I ever had on MTGO was when I was playing in a free sealed league for judges. My pool sucked, but I had a Battle of Wits, so I said gently caress it, it's free, and played my entire pool with enough lands to pad it out. I hit the Battle of Wits turn five naturally both games of my first match. My opponent said something like, "Great, I lost to the guy who's going to go 1-2 drop." I'm tilted just reading this, that's not being salty he's just stating the facts
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Mar 10, 2017 19:31
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gwrtheyrn posted:Win condition: elixir of immortality The nephalia drownyard deck was some of the most miserable magic I can remember. That mirror had to be an all time worst. Has there ever been a genuinely sweet mill deck that wasn't terrible?
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Mar 10, 2017 21:38
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AlternateNu posted:Well, yeah. Fair enough. -8 Swamp, +8 Fetch. You want fetches for bloodghast anyway. There are a ton of Legacy and Modern death cloud or pox prison style decks I'd probably start there. Is Gifted Aetherborn really the best option? You also get a lot of free splashes thanks to the lands available.
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Mar 11, 2017 04:13
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Rinkles posted:Imo, the combo's being banned, and I can imagine something like Scrounger eating a bullet on similar grounds to Reflector Mage. (And who wouldn't mind Gideon going away? tbf, he'll likely overshadow Amonkhet's Gideon). Scrounger won't get banned. It is too important to keeping aggro alive in the format, especially after they banned Copter, they need an artifact two drop and at least it requires you play black mana. Gideon is good but not even close to ban worthy, and promotes the same creature strategies they want to be in the format. Just rip off the band aid and ban Felidar nobody wants that combo around forever and it has the same problem as Reflector Mage which is it makes creature based strategies look bad. When you cast a 5 mana 8/8 and your opponent bounces it and then your next turn you have 2 of them in your hand it's that 'feel bad' magic they specifically want to avoid. Felidar goes in exactly one deck, and other than Saheeli dropping in price and the combo exiting the format nothing gets too disrupted, and potentially some new midrange decks emerge. Scrounger is a vital tool to beating control as aggro, makes exiling clauses matter, is a maindeck all star in zombies and mardu vehicles and sees sideboard play in BG. Speaking of standard as a whole I think it is bad the deck to beat is a 3 color aggressive deck that's quite challenging to play and play against, and it's also the most expensive deck in the format but I don't think banning it is an answer to those problems.
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Mar 11, 2017 19:00
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Angry Grimace posted:I can only assume they thought playing a cool dude and having it eat a Hero's Downfall was "unfun." I don't get why that's a card that rotated to begin with rather than seeing an almost immediate reprint given they were planning to print Gideon the second it rotated. Because they were "reprinting" it in Ruinous Path. It fits the set better but obviously awaken being upside at 7 mana isn't worth losing instant speed. Hero's Downfall is also a little bit oppressive in that expensive planeswalkers are less viable. You can certainly make the argument that it creates interesting deck building choices between it and Murder that simply wouldn't exist with Downfall in the format. I just hope they don't go crazy, ban the Cat or nothing at all. Once you start getting rid of pieces like Scrounger, Gideon, Heart of Kiran or winding Constrictor you don't know what type of format you wind up with, and banning the chase mythics is just not good for standard. I'd have them announce that the Cat is going to be banned as soon as Amonkhet is legal, I feel like that's the best compromise that can be had given the state of things.
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Mar 11, 2017 20:42
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Sickening posted:I stopped reading when you said hero's downfall is oppressive. Yeah to planeswalker design. . . .is that controversial? They have enough time balancing them as is, downfall just makes you not want to put planeswalkers in your deck, which is bad for business.
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Mar 11, 2017 20:54
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JerryLee posted:Hero's Downfall could be an uncommon without too much stretching as far as the dynamics of the game are concerned (economic greed is another matter). The only real game-logic justification for it being rare is that it interacts with planeswalkers, which I realize is a semi-official rule, but I don't think it justifies making it a rare if that in turn is an obstacle to reprinting it. Limited isn't the issue, I just think they put themselves into a bind, having the removal spells be stuff like Grasp, Stasis Snare etc, and then stuff like Ruinous Path, having Hero's Downfall is just flat out better than everything else and they generally like to create a removal suite where one card doesn't answer everything relevant at instant speed. I think they are taking steps in the right direction with Unlicensed Disintegration and Fatal Push. Personally I'd like to see them reprint Bolt and Path to Exile in standard but they don't care about the type of environment I think is fun. I also think it is reasonable to not have a lot of instant speed answers to planeswalkers that don't care about loyalty, although I'm apparently alone on that one.
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Mar 11, 2017 22:53
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mandatory lesbian posted:so in conclusion AVR sucked to draft but that was the only time i did good at a pre-release so i can't hate it It was the worst draft format in the modern era. The loner mechanic was just blowout city. The good soul bonds just snowballed and ended the game. No card draw and if I remember correctly black was so shallow if two people in a pod were drafting it, they were both guaranteed to lose.
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Mar 12, 2017 21:10
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Good choice not to ban anything right now, even if Guardian has to go eventually. Sure it shakes up the meta but we don't necessarily end up with anything better, and what are people going to do when they can't play their deck anymore, and the new set doesn't release yet? The last series of bans were too aggressive anyway and Smugglers Copter should have been the only card removed, but too late to fix that now. Bannings are also insanely disruptive to the market. On MTGO Gideon, Saheeli, and Heart of Kiran all dropped about 50 percent in value, only to instantly rebound after the announcement. An environment where every ban announcement has people trying to dump their mythics and not be caught with the hot potato is terrible. Bannings to shake up older formats are fine, but standard bannings are just awful when the cards have a built in expiration date. The promise of having your Gideons or Heart of Kiran for 2 years or however long it is factors heavily into people buying into the format that is meant to be the most accessible.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:04
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ThePeavstenator posted:Emrakul 100% had to go and if Copter was the only card banned the only playable deck would be 4-Color-Delirium-Copy-Cat-Emrakul-Marvel. You might be right about that, I hated the design of that card, and I wasn't sorry to see reflector mage go either, which is the type of card that when it is is good, its too good, and when it isn't good it sees no play and doesn't matter. E: reflector mage reminded me a little of Maelstrom Pulse, where it would randomly blow someone out who had drawn too many Oblivion Rings, steppe lynxes or putrid leeches. Randomly time walking your opponent some percentage of the time just doesn't seem like good design on a man-o-war. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 19:19
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Angry Grimace posted:The thing is, the Cat has to go. There's no real question about it. It's mostly just optics, and I don't envy Forsythe for having to deal with it - the only thing that sucks about the decision is the fact they have to bullshit us with "well Temur Tower was being played at Utrecht" instead of admitting that for financial reasons it makes less sense to ban a deck out of existence mid-cycle. Which is true - the release of a new set means people are going to be BUYING cards and building decks, regardless of what's legal. Banning Cat right now means you have a negative flow of people playing the game since Cat players likely give up until Amonkhet (or possibly leave the game entirely), and few people are going to be in a buying mood when WOTC just banned an entire deck and the format is in lame duck status. Yeah it is pretty much exactly this. The cat will need to go eventually, it is a ticking time bomb that will eventually get the right shell and be the best deck. Let people who bought it have their fun because it isn't completely broken now and then ban it when new cards come out and people were going to create new decks anyway. There's so little upside to banning it now and a lot of definite downside but the writing is on the wall for that card.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:36
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Star Man posted:Isn't part of the problem that after FFL makes all their adjustments to the set, cards still get further tweaks anyway? Phone posting, so sorry for the double post. Yeah the interaction is obvious so I assume a late change got made that enabled it. Saheeli might have been designed with her -2 being a -3 which instantly kills the combo, or Felidar was added late for an extra blink effect since they are all over the place in Kal/Aer and someone goofed with the templating and forgot to make it EOT like Flickerwisp or be unable to target Planeswalkers.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:48
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Jitte and Top are both miserable to play against albeit for completely different reasons and are rightfully banned from Modern, and it wouldn't surprise me if Top eventually eats a Legacy ban for boring opponents too much.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:58
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Angry Grimace posted:It was a "3 deck Standard" ....kind of. The most dominant decks were around 4 decks, but Mono-Black wasn't actually so good as to legit push everything else out of the format. GW Aggro, Mono-Blue, RG Monsters, UW Control, Red Aggro and Mono-B were all decks that saw reasonable amounts of play during that period. There were also fringe strategies that saw play like Mono-Green Devotion. Games were actually quite good with most of those matches, as well. Thoughtseize is a fine magic card, people may not like playing against it but it is a well constructed card and in a well balanced format it hits the sweet spot of powerful but fair. Pack Rat was a loving abomination, What a miserable card for limited and constructed, it absolutely ruined the format. E: You can't ban Emrakul/Copter/whatever and then unban it. That goes for any card banned in standard, once it is dead it needs to stay dead, I don't think unbanning a card in standard could ever be the correct decision even if the original banning was completely wrong. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 23:50
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A big flaming stink posted:Pack Rat was literally a limited bulk rare before Innistrad rotated. It slotted well in Mono black devotion, of course, but it's prominence was solely an artifact of Theros being the most drastic reduction of power level in the game to date. Actually I'm pretty sure it was the combination of self replicating creature that kills you quickly that requires extremely specific answers and Thoughtseize. I don't remember that well but other than Detention Sphere and wrath what dealt with it? It's also just a complete garbage card design, there's no reason for the ability on that card to be instant speed.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:22
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A big flaming stink posted:well, that'll teach me to speak without qualifiers. Ravnica was pretty low powered all things considered, maybe average at best for the time. Time Spiral was a definite big uptick in power, although a weird set all around, one of the best limited formats before Future Sight ruined it with loving Sprout Swarm. Lorwyn and then Shards both saw big levels of power creep.
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Mar 14, 2017 03:30
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Mezzanon posted:Thoughts: This is a sweet deck but I promise you, Mardu Vehicles is not the matchup this deck craves, it wants to play against Tower decks, and possibly Marvel decks. I had been playing a lot of GB and Mardu Vehicles online before GB became trash, and I thought I was slightly favored as GB but both Zombies and GB just lose when they don't have curve outs that come together. Meanwhile as Mardu I absolutely crushed this deck. A bunch of maindeck Avacyn make Mardu even better thanks to it being a threat you can deploy in response to an upkeep Elder Deep Fiend and it + Ballista being way to flip Avacyn and wipe all the zombies off the board. It is also without a doubt the sweetest looking deck in the format and looks like a blast to play so the likely bad Mardu matchup, which I've only seen it about 7-8 times so I may be wrong, shouldn't factor in that too heavily. Playing the sweetest deck in a meh format can't ever be too wrong.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:05
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Mezzanon posted:It really does feel like the sweetest deck in the format. My favorite comment was from a guy I played some side games with who was on 4 color Saheeli: "So did you just draft this and then go 'gently caress it, let's turn everything I drafted into 4-of's' because you've made an unstoppable monster." There are a lot of different makeups of the deck, I'm sure some are just accidentally better or worse vs Zombies. The better hand, especially the better hand on the play, is usually going to win and that's just standard as it exists today. The big difference I noticed is Mardu has a much better curve out potential of 1, 2, 3 that's tough for Zombies to answer, and GIdeon on the play is also a nightmare for basically every deck in the format. The other big difference is Mardu never has a hand that just does nothing, even if some draws are slow you are always advancing your game plan significantly where as I've won with incredibly mediocre draws when Zombies just spun its wheels. It might not be all that lopsided, it just feels like Mardu wins every close game, which is why I've been playing it. The only deck I had playing against as Mardu is Marvel and that's just because you win or lose entirely based off their draws.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:49
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DangerDongs posted:I am thinking of tanking Abzan in the direction. My last brew had 12 single removal spells along with 2 fumigates, and I was auto-losing game one to control, and still burning myself too much against Mardu. The more changes I make the more I feel like I am moving towards the stock B/G deck, which I am trying to avoid by going over that deck and hopefully also Mardu. So far my original build games 2 and 3 can hold well against control by keeping up on card draw, so I am trying to keep that going. Painful truths is amazing. I feel like 4 Gideon is a must. Inspector doesn't do anything impressive here, and sylvan advocate is underwhelming. I like servant of the conduit. It lets you play aether hub, atune with aether, ramps and mana fixes. All those planeswalkers and 3 power creatures means I'd try 3 possibly 4 heart of Kiran, maybe add a scrounger and cut the sifters. Thalia is a million times better than Gonti due to Copy Cat. The more I look at it the sure I am you want servant of the conduit. It plays so well with 3 colors, and tireless tracker is an even better 4 drop than 3 drop. -4 thraben, advocate -2 sifter + 4 servant, 2 Gideon, 3 Heart 1 scrounger. Just some thoughts, like I said you can switch to atune and have some decent energy but I don't know of any good sinks for this deck, I suppose you could run the 2/1 black menace guy that draws a card from energy over painful truths and move that to the sideboard. Upping the Gideon count definitely moves you away from GB into a clear Abzan direction though.
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Mar 15, 2017 08:18
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Sickening posted:Why would they do this? Competitive events can create a problem later in the season, where more boosters are getting created than destroyed, or are needed because draft queues have slowed down. This creates another issue, because the value of playing constructed is tied to pack value, so if an AER draft is 8 tickets, suddenly going 5-0 or 4-1 is worth a lot less. They had the same issue back in the day when certain events awarded core set packs nobody wanted. Hopefully they are programmed well and treasure chests retain their value. If they are stable at around 2.5, 16 chests is about 40 tickets which is reasonable. If they drop in value too much, then we have the same problem.
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Mar 15, 2017 17:06
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It depends on a lot of factors. Dismember stayed at close to 5 and had much less implications for eternal formats, but it was much less drafted due to being in the third set from a block. The paper market is much less fluid than MTGO, where fatal push has fallen to under two tickets. I don't really play the MTGO long game of buying cards to sell later, but you wouldn't be foolish for buying 20 now and sitting on them, it'll be worth 4-5 tickets in a couple years without fail. Back when I was a heavy drafter I used to never sell my lands and right before set rotation I'd buy 4 play sets on modo of all the essential mana fixing, and like clockwork sell off last years which were of course suddenly in short supply as they hadn't been drafted in so long. I don't think I ever lost money on a single dual land, although some appreciated less than a ticket depending on how the format shook out, but it was always worth double whatever I paid in aggregate, and in the case of fetch lands and man lands it was absurd. I remember creeping tar pit in particular quadrupling in value while it was in standard. E: haha watching Numot and he just said chests dropped in price already just due to the announcement. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 18:40
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Pontius Pilate posted:And goyf growth. Lorwyn was a sweet set with a bunch of new, exciting, cool mechanics and planeswalkers. Then they released Morningtide which came with Bitterblossom, and it was bad. It was impossible not to figure out the deck so it's unclear how it ever happened, kind of like Jund a block later.
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Mar 16, 2017 07:38
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The Shortest Path posted:JTMS does not help blue control be good in the current meta. It's got other problems. If they unban Jace and he sticks, they'll reprint him. A lot of people love the card and want to play it, I think the format would be more interesting with him and BBE in it. Preordain, much like Ponder just does so much more for combo decks it is much worse for the format and should stay banned. The complaint that the card is unfun to play against doesn't really hold up considering the type of decks and cards legal in the format already like Blood Moon and stuff like Lantern control.
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Mar 16, 2017 19:36
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I'm so sick of these poors ruining drafts. I let people know before a draft that if they don't drop, I'm taking everyone to Applebees. It's what I like to call a win/win.
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Mar 17, 2017 20:40
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Everything post alara block until it rotated was my favorite, with the best standard being when the core set with mana leak legal right before the rotation and Scars block. Doom blade, path, terminate, mana leak and bolt were all standard legal. Jace, Garruk and Ajani were all kept in check by pulse and blightning, and Nicol Bolas and Cruel Ultimatum were cards you could cast and still be competitive. Mill and RDW both extremely viable as well, including the standard dredge deck with vengevines and unearth creatures. Nothing had to be banned, people hated Jund but a lot of why it was omnipresent was the deck played 0-2 mythics (Garruk) and broodmate was the only rare so the whole thing was dirt cheap.
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Mar 25, 2017 19:00
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Soul Glo posted:So what are we fetching that this hates on Traverse is the only card I can think of that cares about searching your library other than evolving wilds which was already mentioned.
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Mar 30, 2017 17:56
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Angry Grimace posted:It's mostly of similar utility and power as Temples in my opinion. Temples offer more utility in the early game because you get scry and the land, but Cyclelands offer a better topdeck and a small mana sink. No these are more powerful by a sizable margin due to deck building and starting hand considerations. You could easily play 28 or more lands if 6-8 of them cycle and you can keep a 6 land hand, with 2 cycle lands where that would be an easy mulligan with scry lands. With the new mulligan rules turn one scry is also devalued a fair bit.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:46
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