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So uh, these weapons kind of suck. I think?
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Oct 19, 2016 17:27
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Dr Cheeto posted:Of course they're all likely suboptimal for 1D This is mostly what I'm getting at. I don't look at any of these weapons and think "man, that'd be good for DW/OD." The sniper might make for a good low-conceal sharpshooter setup. Well, maybe not good.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:57
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Malek posted:They all suck after the balance update. Yes, literally all weapons in the game suck. 
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Oct 19, 2016 18:39
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spit on my clit posted:holy gently caress what did they do to melee weapons? Cop health is multiple times higher than it used to be. Melee damage hasn't been adjusted upward, and melee weapons don't benefit from headshot multipliers. RIP melee. It's just another example of how poorly-conceived Jules's design is.
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Oct 20, 2016 06:31
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watho posted:I agree fully. And yeah, I agree with this too, more or less. All weapons in a category should be similarly damaging. There are other ways to differentiate weapons that don't obviously make some weapons better than others, like rate of fire and recoil pattern.
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Oct 20, 2016 06:34
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The new weapons are all pretty bad. The funniest one is probably the sniper. Highest base conceal of all snipers, but basically every part makes it less concealable. Also has poo poo accuracy considering it's a loving sniper.
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Oct 20, 2016 23:50
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Plan Z posted:Wish they'd just stop with low ammo count SMGs. Psion was literally just talking about this. It's pretty obviously nonsense that weapons that do less than half the damage of a DMR have a similar ammo count. I really do think that Overkill needs to, yet again, do a general balance pass on weapons, if only to standardize things. There shouldn't be obvious winners and losers. E: PSIONNNNNNNNNNNN LuciferMorningstar fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Oct 21, 2016 |
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Oct 21, 2016 02:05
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Oct 21, 2016 05:45
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Dr Cheeto posted:If I can't bring a KSP it's not worth playing imho If you're talking about OD, you can bring a KSP. You absolutely need Body Expertise, though. Bipodding is also dangerous, but you can manage risk with good positioning. The only thing in that changelist that really throws balance is the pistol xbow damage reduction. I'm guessing it won't one-shot shields anymore. Given how loving numerous they are, that could be a real issue.
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Oct 21, 2016 17:33
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Psion posted:what was it, something like a constant 10-12 on map at all times during most 1D assault waves? And you were mentioning something like a huge damage reduction to the two things which are designed to punch through shields - snipers and slugs? gross Yep. Typically eight or more Shields at any given time. They seem to frequently move in clumps. And yeah, Shields don't just block most bullets, they also reduce penetrative damage. They are, as far as I can tell, the only thing that does this. The three projectiles that pierce Shields are slugs, snipers, and dragon's breath. Damage is reduced by a staggering 75%. This renders those Shield-busting weapons largely worthless.
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Oct 21, 2016 18:04
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Dr Cheeto posted:This is accurate. Weapons capable of penetrating walls or other cops don't have their damage reduced at all, for example. The shield penetration damage reduction has been in for some time, but obviously the way it interacts with 1D health pools is new. Yes. It really only hit me how hosed up this is when I was trying to come up with my own take on balance for cop health and weapon damage. With Shield DR as it is, you either keep the man behind the Shield flimsy or you make penetrative damage really high. In the former scenario, it's easier to flank or use HE. In the latter, you end up with idiotically strong weapons that would probably be too good at everything. Either way, it makes balancing snipers and slugs basically impossible.
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Oct 21, 2016 18:12
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oohhboy posted:Instead of fixing the brokenness of OD they nerf the few weapons that did work....... wow Oh, word?
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Oct 21, 2016 19:16
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Goldfarb strikes again
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Oct 21, 2016 20:26
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Psion posted:I can see the logic behind demanding headshots when trying to punch through a presumably bulletproof shield instead of just casually bodyshotting them en masse, but the out of balance headshot multipliers combined with the larger health pool is a real problem. Shields, perhaps, could stand to have a higher headshot multiplier like cloakers do. Or just reduce that ridiculous pen DR, which would be an effective buff without changing any numbers. You can adjust headshot multipliers on a per-cop basis, I think. Of course, then you might as well take Body Expertise and flank the Shield or use the Shield-staggering skill to get the squishy bits. I'd rather just eliminate the DR, I think. Snipers are in a bad spot, and I don't know if they can actually be meaningfully fixed. You could draw a line and say that only snipers (and maybe a select group of other weapons) can one-shot specials. That would carve out a niche. But would it ultimately just frustrate people? Would it actually be enough to make a difference? If it only takes me an additional shot with a DMR, maybe I'd still prefer the DMR. The Sharpshooter tree also complicates this a bunch by compressing the sorts of roles you can develop for snipers. You could come up with some snipers that hit breakpoints that allow you to bodyshot some subset of cops. You'd basically trade ammo/pickup rate/mag size, etc. for the ability to just click a man and have that man die. With Sharpshooter, though, the emphasis in on headshots. Stylistically, it makes sense, but those skills feel like poo poo given how many points you have to invest and what you could otherwise get with those points. Why would I gently caress around with difficult-to-conceal, low-ammo, low-pickup snipers that require some amount of aim to work when I can just charge around with a shotgun and auto DMR? I'm also talking about this in terms of a how the highest difficulties look. It makes sense for all this to be more flexible on lower difficulties.
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Oct 21, 2016 20:49
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Discendo Vox posted:New Death Vox unit change ideas workshopping: 
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Oct 21, 2016 22:35
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Discendo Vox posted:I'm trying to figure out how to deal with the synergy between that skill and the one that penetrates armor. You're an idiot.
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Oct 21, 2016 23:09
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Okay. I just realized my question sounded more general than I meant. I was more specifically thinking of weapon stats and breakpoints, but it did sound like I was asking about everything. On Overkill, 40 damage should still serve you reasonably well for assault rifles, I think. Generally, higher accuracy and stability are better, but it's honestly better to just try different weapons and see how they feel. The more important part is probably having a good build in terms of skills. Invest in skills that help the weapon you're using, and make sure to pick an appropriate set of "defensive" skills, so either dodge or ICTV.
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Oct 23, 2016 02:01
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Tulip posted:So this is the build I'm currently using for Mayhem. The thing that I'm concerned about is the Brawler tree. I can't think of any skills that really improve grenade launchers other than Bloodthirst, so that feels like a good option, but Frenzerking feels pretty marginal. Would I be better off moving those points to Revenant or even Controller? Frenzy alone is good because it increases your survivability. Berserker will help the Minigun, so it's justified. Unfortunately, as Psion has pointed out, you don't have skills to help the Minigun, and I'm not sure going up to only basic Frenzy is worth it.
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Oct 23, 2016 23:31
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Drewjitsu posted:What are the good skill builds/weapons for 1D? Mostly fine. I wouldn't gently caress with hostage skills or Fully Loaded. I wouldn't advise taking a non-explosive secondary, either. Wiping out clumps of cops or Shields is really valuable.
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Oct 25, 2016 18:41
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Drewjitsu posted:Dominating a cop is mostly a pipe dream? Even if they turn out to be basically invincible (from what I understand)? They're no longer invincible. Last I heard, skills actually made them weaker. Might have been fixed. It's just generally not worth it, IMO.
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Oct 25, 2016 18:54
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Tempest_56 posted:Cops vs. heisters is an attrition battle in many ways - even a group of specials isn't that strong against players. But there's infinite cops, and player resources are limited. Halve the charges you get out of deployables, halve the value of ammo pickups, lengthen armor regen time. Suddenly the heisters have to be much more aware of ammo and health and we get situations where teams are scraping their way out. Start out strong, but at the end you're scrambling to the van with no deployables left, half the team black & white and twenty bullets between everyone. Or you just game the system and trade teammates from custody each assault break. Wow, what an exciting new meta!
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Oct 26, 2016 02:54
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Tempest_56 posted:That's a hellishly risky meta and you know it. Mis-time things and you're spending ~10m down a player or two, which is really goddamn tough on top difficulties. (I'm sure you're going to come back and claim to solo entire 1D assault waves, in which case congrats in being the top 0.01% of players.) Well, I guess it depends on how else you're balancing top difficulties. My assumption is that you're reducing cop health and damage by some amount and replacing that with lower resources, in which case being down a player or two is less significant. You're also neglecting to consider weapons like the crossbow and javelins, for which you can recover ammo. I'm not saying this wouldn't work, mind you. I just don't see how it necessarily generates outcomes that are better than the status quo. I also don't understand how this allows you to balance around heists of various length. I probably don't care much about resource reductions on a short heist like Biker 2, but longer heists would probably be more difficult. Maybe that's a desirable outcome, as one might think that longer heists should be harder.
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Oct 26, 2016 03:52
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In a shocking turn of events, Vox and Coolguye reveal their inability to handle the challenge of OD and repeatedly insist that winning or losing is based on factors beyond player control, absolving themselves of personal responsibility.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:03
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JohnnyOso posted:In unrelated news, "git gud" continues to be a fantastic way to excuse questionable design choices. More at 11. You may note that neither Psion nor I are arguing that the design choices in OD are necessarily good. We're simply pointing out that, by summoning your demonic powers to get good, you can overcome the OD challenge, instead of whining about how it's just luck.
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Oct 27, 2016 17:19
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spit on my clit posted:dont answer back, you twat Another well-reasoned post by MSPaintHUD-user and resident thread idiot (repetitive, I know), spit on my clit .
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Oct 27, 2016 17:33
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spit on my clit posted:look, we're not gonna do this again. either stop being such a goddamn retard and click on cops, or accept your fate as being ignored by the entire thread. I think you'll find that it is, in fact, those of you who lack a OD mask who have cop-clicking to do. Or you can continue to whine about how unfair the game is. Your call.
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Oct 27, 2016 17:48
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Coolguye posted:i was answering psion's question dude, discussing strategies takes a couple of words You seem kind of worked up about this, again. Have you considered taking a break? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 27, 2016 18:57
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