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Most of the people buying and stockpiling lots of guns do not use them for hunting so I fail to see why "But guns are necessary for hunting!" is a valid argument for the large amount of gun proliferation.
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Jan 8, 2016 17:05
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I don't know about the super internal workings of the Clinton campaign but the vibe Iv been getting from were I am is that there is a certain panic about Sanders momentum in the polls and people really don't want this to turn into another 2008. The farther right rhetoric we are seeing is probably a panicked attempt to bring in moderates (who don't exist) and people turned off by the GOP being a shitshow.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:24
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Like I'm not going to go to bat for the Clintons or w/e on their lovely policies like the very tepid commitment to campaign finance reform but it shouldn't surprise anyone the Clintons represent a more "soft left" (as in not as left) part of the Dem party and main thing is the fact Hillary is good at getting things done. EDIT: The Democrats should count their blessings they don't have any wrong or bad choices.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:30
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Khisanth Magus posted:I think my favorite part of the "Bernie isn't going to do anything about helping minorities, just try to fix economic problems!" is that the common solution to this is to elect someone who both doesn't give a poo poo about helping minorities and isn't going to do poo poo about economic problems. I wouldn't say Hillary would be bad for minorities or the economy. Basically the only really objectively bad thing about her is that shes not committed to fixing the issue of money in politics which granted is a big problem but well.....you take what you can get. Buckwheat Sings posted:That's true and really weird. I bet a lot of people going to bat for Clinton don't have much experience living in foreign countries. She's pretty far rightwing compared to her equivalent in other countries and Bernie would actually be considered center. It's just wild how rightwing people are in the US. While the overton window is shifted farther to the left in many European countries in general the U.S. trends more conservative because the way the system is set up is that you have two big tend parties. This isn't getting into the issue with racism Europe is having to finally come to terms with which the U.S. has kinda dealt with better in some area's (some states specifically).
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Jan 12, 2016 22:40
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Maarek posted:He polls better against the Republican field than Hillary Clinton does. Bernie's biggest issues are thus: -Large inexperience running a national campaign (doesn't really have that well formed policy on things outside the economy and social issues, foreign policy is a huge deal for a lot of people) -Running off that his campaign isn't very well put together and he needs to pick better people to work with, the amount of hostility shown on the upper tiers of his campaign towards his opponent and the party is distressing -Promising things that will come off as unrealistic (not that they maybe absolutely are) -Way to nice to the GOP.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:45
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Maarek posted:"Clinton 2016: Worst Case Scenario Is The Status Quo" If you don't like status quo you picked the wrong political system to be engaged in; generally progress in America is slowed by the slugish nature of the system (which is intentionally built in to balance power). You can see the symptoms of how broken it is in that SCOTUS and the President basically need to enact change unilaterally to get anything down because America forgot how to democracy slowly over the years.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:47
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MODS CURE JOKES posted:I don't think that either of these things are necessarily an issue. The first one falls apart because nobody likes Hillary Clinton or the Democratic leadership, even if it's kneejerk. Hillary is extremely popular with the democratic base. And yes nobody in the DNC like's DWS but she won't be there for much longer. MODS CURE JOKES posted:The second one, well, there's a lot of Very Serious People who love that sort of "bipartisan" bullshit. I think these both play well in terms of optics, especially since you can spin it as Bernie being willing to work with anyone. Eh not really. Being nice to your enemies does nothing for your side at best and drags it down at worst. Participating in politics isn't a clean family fun game and acting like the other side actually has a point instead of being morons is self defeating. One of the main attractions of Hillary is she is very good at the political game (for better or worse). Staying positive for the primary is good, the general? no.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:55
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Talmonis posted:Bipartisanship and dealmaking through porkbarrel spending was how Washington actually got anything done. You could wax some Republican's balls by spending money in his state and he'd help pass your bill. Now there is no incentive to do that. Add in the openly hostile Tea Party element that is pretty open about wanting to burn it all down, and here we are. Bipartisanship is dead due to political polarization, it has nothing to do with people being mean or nice. Khisanth Magus posted:Gotta love superdelegates and the whole concept of "Your primary votes don't actually mean poo poo, the establishment gets enough votes that short of a landslide if you don't vote for our candidate, gently caress you, your vote doesn't count." The democratic primary is way, way better set up than the Republican one and part of that is super delegates. No holds barred shitshow like the GOP primaries should not be the goal.
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Jan 12, 2016 23:24
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Man, if Clinton really does lose the democratic nomination then we deserve Trump. Democrats make shooting themselves in their own foot a loving work of art. How are the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot when they have two candidates running that are mostly similar on a lot of things and both enjoy a large amount of popular support from the base. The GOP primary's front runner is currently Donald Trump IE it's a literal joke.
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Jan 12, 2016 23:34
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Do you really believe Bernie will overtake Trump? Maybe I'm more pessimistic because I keep up with this thread and 99% of the time everyone considers Bernie a joke and any Bernout a idiot. If you get your ideas of whats actually happening in elections from USPOL the only one being shot in the foot is you. Bernie has out fundraised everyone currently running for the office of President except Hillary. The dems could run a cardboard cutout of FDR and beat the GOP in 2016.
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Jan 12, 2016 23:46
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Nobody is hated more in congress than Ted Cruz, except for maybe Trey Gowdy
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Jan 12, 2016 23:53
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Trabisnikof posted:If you get your ideas of what the election will be like from primary fundraising numbers the only one being shot in the foot is you. I was just using it as a point that the Dems have their poo poo together. A Man With A Plan posted:Small donor fundraising is the only thing that matters, which is why we have lived in the Ron Pauliphate of America these past 16 years. Not even touching on the fact Bernie =/= Ron Paul for many reasons if were talking small donor fundraising Bernie blows him out of the water. Obama also did shitloads of small donor fundraising and well, OBAMA'S AMERICA
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Jan 13, 2016 00:16
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Well, turns out, while 10 U.S. sailors are being detained in Iran tonight, Obama is still going to tout his iran deal. And, of course, will ignore completely said sailors. I hope we use the might of the entire U.S. navy to crush irans enemy saudi arabia by allah it shall be so
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Jan 13, 2016 01:32
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thank goodness they're looking out for them.
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Joementum posted:It's really amazing and funny how obviously scared they are of him. Nobody wants a repeat of 2008 I can tell you that much.
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Jan 13, 2016 05:58
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Trabisnikof posted:So lets start a fight over single payer! I never said it was a smart move, but one interestingly based on possibly overcompensating for the lazy attitude that doomed the campaign in 2008
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Jan 13, 2016 06:12
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Raskolnikov38 posted:To derail uspol with a snarky pro-Bernie post or not to derail uspol, that is the question. Insert post about Bernie running a positive campaign yet internet supporters being aggressive trash monsters here
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Jan 13, 2016 06:14
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Well I've got some bad news for hildawg if she's worried about a 2008 repeat. I think when all the negative reaction to this really gets bad she will walk it back.
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Jan 13, 2016 06:17
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gradenko_2000 posted:FDR looked dead inside by the time he left office. He didn't have a leg to stand on I hear
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Jan 13, 2016 08:38
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Joementum posted:The choice with Bernie isn't (and never has been) to believe his plans have any chance of becoming law - Hillary's probably don't either! Instead, it's about forcing them into the mainstream of Democratic party policy objectives. This, Bernie outright stated at the start of his run that even getting a large amount of the voter even if he doesn't win in the Primary will be a victory because it sends a message about what the party base wants.
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Jan 14, 2016 16:19
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:No, he didn't. Shifting the overton window and shaping the parties approach despite losing is a very well documented thing. I never said he wasn't running to win, just that if he doesn't not all is lost.
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Jan 14, 2016 16:37
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:You said he outright stated that he wanted to do that. Where is this statement? wait lol are you asking me to cite were Bernie Sanders has said he wants to send a message about what the people want from their party? Are you serious?
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Jan 14, 2016 16:43
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:You were the one claiming that Sanders outright stated it... unless you're just making poo poo up you should have no problem finding a transcript that backs up what you're saying. I am indeed making things up. Bernie has never called for a political revolution and has made no statements regarding sending a message to the Democratic Party about what people want.
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Jan 14, 2016 16:54
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Trabisnikof posted:Can anyone think of a good reason why the Sanders campaign sent a DMCA takedown notice to Wikipedia demanding the removal of their logos? The same reason they think suing the DNC for allowing them to willingly steal someone else's data without the DNC knowing is a grand idea
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Jan 16, 2016 00:03
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Who gives a poo poo, other than you, because of course you do. Because it's funny that that the Bernie campaigns legal people are insane
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Jan 16, 2016 00:36
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Did they give a reason why they want Wikipedia to stop giving them free advertising.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:08
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Raskolnikov38 posted:No I wouldn't because its a slap fight over a .png file that I can just go to their campaign website to see. this makes the case more stupid not less
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Jan 16, 2016 01:18
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Lotka Volterra posted:She cannot be serious. We're finally allowing relations to thaw a bit and she wants to go right back to the antagonism? Generally I think the issue is the Clinton campaign is trying to swing to the right as a response to Bernie getting higher in the polls, why I have no loving clue.
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Jan 17, 2016 01:20
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Lotka Volterra posted:If she keeps making unenforced errors like this and loses the primary, I will never stop laughing. I mean I have no clue whats going on at the top level but there are a lot of donors and other people that are a part of the Clinton circle kinda sweating at all the stuff that she and her campaign have been saying lately because it's also going to piss off the current administration.
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Jan 17, 2016 01:24
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Stultus Maximus posted:She has always seemed extremely intelligent and competent, why is she such an amazingly terrible campaigner? Being an aggressive politician makes for effective time in office but incredibly bad optics in elections. Also she listens to her inner circle a little to much instead of thinking for herself.
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Jan 17, 2016 01:31
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Killer Mike is awesome in some areas but leans on the "Insane conspiracy person" fence a little to much which uh, might not be great for Sanders if Mike comes under scrutiny. Nebalebadingdong posted:Wouldn't virtually all of reparation money just re-accumulate back to the wealthy? Reparations are good and should be done, but it feels like a token gesture. Worse, doesn't that let everyone off the hook for slavery and jim crow and mass incarceration? Reparations isn't just "give black people more money" it's about making sure black American's aren't eternally stuck in a cycle of poverty by using targeted programs. One of the biggest criticisms of Bernie is his "Rising tide lifts all boats" thing never works like that in reality.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:55
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Joementum posted:Such as? He thinks there is a shadow government that secretly controls everything. Although I guess in recent years he's mellowed out.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:57
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Is this an indirect criticism of The Great Society? The Great Society came with a bunch of programs to specially improve the lives of minorities in America. The point I'm getting at is that you need to directly address racism and problems unique to minorities to fix poo poo. Nebalebadingdong posted:I understand its not "just give black people money" but I don't see how it will end the cycle of poverty. Even giving people land seems like a non-starter unless you give them developed land. Which sounds kinda awesome but we've ventured even further from "a thing that can actually happen" Investing more money in education, infrastructure, and community centers at a local level is a good start. Also getting rid of retardly shaped school districts that basically give us segregation 2.0
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Jan 20, 2016 04:02
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crazy cloud posted:Yeah but like isn't there and don't they? Eisenhower MIC speech and so on? The MIC is anything but shadowy. Also there is good MIC stuff and bad MIC stuff. Good: research, using armed forces to help with disaster relief and so on bad: buying thousands of tanks to sit in a desert and make planes for trillions of dollars that melt in the rain On Terra Firma posted:Within a few years you would have white families moving out of the new lines to where more white people are and the cycle would just repeat. White people don't like living outside of cities anymore really. Suburbs are the new inner city in a lot of places.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:09
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Paradoxish posted:The phrase you're using here has been perverted from its original meaning, and it's a poor description of what Bernie's platform is about in any case. Sanders is after programs which will disproportionately benefit poor people, which has absolutely nothing to do with (and in fact is the complete opposite of) what people usually mean when they say "a rising tide lifts all boats." Programs that are specifically for poor people often get built in such a way minorities have a much harder time taking advantage of them (historically) which is why people are appropriately cautious when the rhetoric of "Why don't black people love me? They are all poor and in need!" rears it's ugly head.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:49
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On Terra Firma posted:Um, what? That isn't true at all in Virginia where I'm at. Really? Because lately in the D.C. metro area people have been moving closer in as the traffic gets worse. Gentrification is everywere. mlmp08 posted:Hm, yes, good hot take here. I'm not talking about rural america? although it's literally dying.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:24
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Typical Pubbie posted:And single payer healthcare along with stuff like universal pre-k would do more to help the long term prosperity of black communities than a check for $30,000. That's great but when your schools are literally falling apart due to local negligence because your own state hates you.... Basically the problem is so complex it requires plans that specifically target minority communities because well as much as it sucks to say this more people in America would be fine with socialism as long as they were assured it wasn't going to any non-whites. Voters are also more interested in how you will personally help them which is why the Clintons have historically had a good relationship with the black community.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:54
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Rand alPaul posted:Health insurance reform barely passed after it was watered down to the point that many of its backers barely gave a gently caress about it anymore, and it became an almost entirely symbolic victory because of the name it was given. I'm guessing Sanders will do a little bit better this time because he's not taking a million checks from Pharma, nor would he let Max Baucus shout down and arrest people trying to get the Public Option (which I believe was the third compromise of the bill) discussed in a hearing open to the public. I know several people that would be dead if it wasn't for Obamacare. Calling it a symbolic victory is defeatist as gently caress.
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Jan 20, 2016 07:04
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Not a Step posted:Uh, in closing, UHC good One of the biggest reasons social services are so hard to fund and argue for (such as UHC) is because people are racist and don't like the idea of the wrong people getting benefits. You can't address the issues of the United States without addressing racism in some way which is why a shitload of the rhetoric coming from BLM isn't TEAR DOWN THE BIG BANKS but "Maybe make districts not insane prisons to keep black people as isolated as possible" and "help make local government better represent it's population". Arguing from the standpoint of "Who cares about race we have big business to take on!" is a losing proposition for the Democrats because the strength of the Democratic party is it has down well to bring minorities and other oppressed groups into it's tent. Similarly the Democrats have a lot of outspoken military people trying to reign in the MIC by pushing funding towards research and other non-idiot F35 poo poo that get pissed when people ignore foreign policy with the idea the world will just leave us alone if we don't bother it.
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Jan 20, 2016 08:50
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Rand alPaul posted:There's a huge difference between your strawman and actively gutting portions of the bill you campaigned on because you're getting a ton of money and playing twelve-dimensional-chess and are a brilliant poker player and MASSING POLITICAL CAPITAL and all the stupid poo poo people rationalized Obama's actions for. Saying that Obama promised something he (or anyone else) couldn't deliver on is a criticism of him and society as a whole. Similarly when people say Bernie's promises and plans are unrealistic it's not saying Bernie is a shitlord or w/e it's saying that recognition of plausibility is important. There seems to be this fundamental misunderstanding that electing new people will magically fix everything when most big change these days is done via the Supreme Court supporting or knocking things down because our system is a gridlocked mess. Honestly if you want a cause that will enable some of the amazing stuff Sanders want then you need to take on gerrymandering. You can suck all the money out of politics you want but as long as people are divided to naturally give one party an advantage that party will do better.
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Jan 20, 2016 09:02
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Not a Step posted:If HRC came out and said she was going to spend thirty billion dollars buying buses for a federal forced busing/desegregation program I would vote for her in a heartbeat. If she came out on a platform of expanding mass transit in every major American city and providing subsidies so no middle class worker had to pay a train/bus fare again I'd also vote for her. If anyone could promise federal judiciary oversight of redistricting with a straight face I'd probably also swing that way. My other hot button issue is whichever candidate offers the best benefits package for three year olds. I can say the last point is definitely a thing she supports and she has expressed in her infrastructure plans that we need more mass transit to stop the forced isolation felt in many communities in America but a legit criticism of both Bernie and Hillary is that these specific things will not be addressed until they are will into office with a team that can figure out how to do it. And hell her platform of automatic voter registration (as well as other strengthening of voters rights laws) would go a long way towards giving minority communities that aforementioned better representation that can meet their needs. As someone who does a lot of stuff with the Hillary campaign I can tell you stuff Bernie adopts and supports also has the effect of more than likely becoming part of HRC's platforms in the general (if she wins) so it can never hurt to support these things. My biggest endorsement of Bernie is he has done a good job of shifting the overton window and energizing the base.
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Jan 20, 2016 09:11
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