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wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?
I've used moderately bolstered seats from lower-end "sporty" junkyard cars (Mazda MX-6 and Hyundai Tiburon) in my two builds. They feel more "right" but certainly aren't the greatest for long sessions.

I'd say focus more on comfort. It'd probably feel weird to go too far, a cockpit-style driving position with conversion van captains chairs for example probably wouldn't be great, but the bolstering is definitely only there for ~~my immersion~~ rather than actual function.

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wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Goetta posted:

This is a long shot but has anyone tried F1 2015 with a steam link and controller? No matter which setting I try the car won't accelerate and I think the game just doesn't work over the link?

e: To be specific the car accelerates but something is pressing the brake so it just sits there and wheel spins

I don't have a solution, but at least you can be happy it's not just you. It does exactly the same for me no matter what input configuration I select. Even using a controller profile that makes it act like a keyboard I still have the same behavior when using the Steam Controller via Steam Link.

It works as expected using a 360 controller local to the PC.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?
Greenawalt's response when I complained about that last time around: https://twitter.com/dan_greenawalt/status/639985402271522816

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Ratmtattat posted:

I know there's no wheel support for now but has Microsoft at least hinted that they might try to add it in later?

http://www.forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/fm6_apex_beta_announce

quote:

As development continues, players can expect to see updates and improvements to the game.

For example, wheel support is coming to Forza Motorsport 6: Apex and Turn 10 is busy working to ensure that Apex delivers the kind of wheel support, performance, and features that racing fans expect from a range of available hardware. In addition we plan to support additional features that we know are important to PC gamers, such as the ability to disable Vsync and an in-app framerate counter.

So wheel support is confirmed, vsync control and overlays are "planned"

edit: Is there some default throttle in the Windows Store or do their servers just suck? I have 250mbit internet and Steam will happily crush it all day every day, but I'm getting about 15mbit/sec on this.

edit2: Turns out the Windows Store is on IPv6, but since my ISP does not I'm using a Tunnelbroker setup, and that caps out around 15mbit apparently (not like I'm complaining for free). Disabling IPv6 temporarily on my router got me up in to the 200s.

wolrah fucked around with this message at 19:54 on May 5, 2016

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?
I just ran the demo race and the first round. OBS full screen capture (game capure can't even see the game's window) sure sucks up performance, I was regularly under 60 FPS with ~50% GPU usage (with 2 cores mostly maxed and two mostly idle on a 4790K) while I was streaming. I then did another round after streaming running Sebring in the Mustang again, but in the rain this time for extra stress, without streaming and it was butter smooth.


Since it's running at desktop resolution and is supposedly 60 FPS locked, but is also vsync locked, and my desktop resolution is 1920x1080x144, I wonder what it's actually doing. This isn't like a FPS where high refresh rates are immediately obvious. I need to drag my Xbone down here and side by side the two to see if I can tell a smoothness difference.

wolrah fucked around with this message at 21:49 on May 5, 2016

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Cojawfee posted:

You can't use your 7 or 8 keys because they are 7 or 8 keys. Windows 10 checks your previous key license and then adds your hardware fingerprint to Microsoft's list of licenses.

No, since the first big update (November IIRC) you can actually just put your 7/8 key in to the 10 installer and it works. Before that you had to do an upgrade first to tag the hardware, then you could nuke and clean install.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Abu Dave posted:

also performance in this is weird got a 980ti and it runs perfect but once it rains it TANKS plus the mirror being 30 fps constant is annoying

What track were you on? My rain performance at Sebring was great with 16 cars on track on a 970. The only performance problems I had were while I was streaming, and I think that's because the OBS full screen capture required for UWP titles probably isn't as efficient as its normal method.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Abu Dave posted:

That first rain one in the career. are you using dynamic or hand set settings?

Dynamic.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Goetta posted:

The AI in Yas Marina is hilarious. Stop randomly slamming on your brakes at the apex of the hairpin you cocksuckers.

Or I guess the Driveatar thing maybe means that is how random people drive that track? I never had an xbox so this is my first exposure to the series.

Yeah, that's just how Forza AI works. It's always been conservative about braking in corners. Turn on the racing line and you'll get a pretty good glimpse in to its mind. You'll be amazed at how many little kinks it wants to brake at.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

eggyolk posted:

I just want a PC sim where you take a not-so-great car and gradually turn it into an awesome racing machine. As far as I know Forza was the only game with that level of customization.

The fact that this post gets positive responses is why I like this thread. When I've brought up the same topic on simracing forums it always seems to bring out the spergs who think anything less than perfect realism (or their teflon-tired vision of realism) is an affront to the PC gods and that the idea of doing a nonsense build that's maybe not realistic but definitely fun to drive should stay on consoles. The idea that a checkbox could force stock configs in multiplayer seems meaningless to that crowd. If I'm having fun they're not.

gently caress that, I want as realistic of a simulation engine as I can get, but I want to be able to feed it the parameters of an '80s Vandura with a LS7 hiding under the doghouse when I need a break from realistic racing. BMW Isetta with a 13B-REW? Yes please! Drunken racing in gimmick cars is wonderful.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

I'm torn. They finally release something that's a reasonable replacement for my CSR with Xbox One compatibility right when Forza starts coming to PC where my old wheel works great.

On the other hand, more power and replaceable wheels...

Since I already have the CSR load cell pedals I'd only need the base and wheel, making it a $440 upgrade.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Tony Montana posted:

I've not seen these guys before. They look to have some beautiful stuff.

Check this out: http://www.ricmotech.com/default.asp

Discuss.

My nice racing cockpit setup is built from their plans. I have no complaints. It looks good, it fits well.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

GhostDog posted:

The Crew is free if you care to log into your UPlay account.

Have they made the manual transmission option on gamepads not retarded?

Last time I played, if you were using a wheel with a H-pattern stick you could shift between any gears as quickly as you could move the stick. If you were playing with a gamepad you could only upshift and downshift sequentially and it would apply an arbitrary delay based on some kind of leveling you've done in game. It also didn't queue those inputs, so tapping the button a few times in rapid succession only gets a single shift. This meant for example if you were in 5th coming up to a corner and wanted to drop to second quickly you were basically hosed, because you had to tap, wait for it to go to 4, tap, wait for 3, tap, wait for 2 where wheel users just went 5>2. I don't recall if automatic went direct or just downshifted faster, but either way playing manual on gamepad at a low level guaranteed you'd be the slow one either in to or out of every tight turn.

I bought the game within a month of release but I only put 2-3 hours in to it because of that.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

no bones about it posted:

I think some of the high-end simulators (think poo poo that costs 55k+, used to train for series during off-season) have actual hydraulic systems for the brake and clutch with proper pedal feedback, as well as motion systems built into the cockpit. A load cell and some pedal vibration is probably the best you're gonna get with the funds of a mere mortal though.

I used one of the VirtualGT sims at a demo this year, and they're pretty good about brake and clutch feel, you can feel precisely where the clutch bite point is and when and how hard your wheels have locked up.

I've thought a few times about how it might feel to get a real junkyard trans, strap an electric motor to it to spin it, and rig that with the appropriate switches and pots. Use an actual legitimate clutch assembly operating an actual clutch.

The two outstanding things I'm not really sure of on that are how powerful of an electric motor I'd need to be able to make it rev realistically and how disorienting it would feel to have ratios that obviously don't match (unless they did by chance). I think the second problem might be a fatal flaw with the idea.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

no bones about it posted:

That sounds like some AI level poo poo there, both awesome and horrifically dangerous

How so on the dangerous part? If I put a cover over the output shaft there'll be no exposed moving parts. The only real danger I could see would be a flywheel explosion, but even that should be significantly less likely than it would be in a real car because there's no actual significant load being put on things. The way it would work I'd want the lightest flywheel I could get anyways (since it'd be trying to track the game, which would be simulating the flywheel on its own), so the amount of energy available would be minimized.

That said aside from the gear ratio thing another semi-obvious problem I've come up with as I've thought more about it is that almost everything I drive in racing games has six gears, and almost every trans I'd be able to get cheap from a junkyard is going to have five at best. AFAIK all of the six speeds produced in the '90s are fairly desirable for swaps. Obviously there's pretty much no chance of getting a 7 speed, but there are only like 3 cars with 7 speed manuals (C7, 991, and I think Aston Martin has one now) so it doesn't matter that much.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?
Definitely worth getting a wheel if you like racing games.

IMO force feedback is a bare minimum requirement. I've had two wheels without force and they both got used maybe a half dozen times before they got shelved forever. The two I've had with force are both still in service today and I'm planning to buy the CSL when it goes on sale for Black Friday.

I'd strongly recommend getting a wheel that natively supports three pedals and an h-pattern shifter. You can add those on as separate components, but some less simmy games don't properly handle taking input from multiple devices at once so a wheel that can combine everything in to a single input stream can be beneficial. Also if you care about console compatibility this is mandatory.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?
Found on /r/dirtgame:

"My experience with Dirt Rally so far..."
https://gfycat.com/JoyousFastFallowdeer

edit: hmm, apparently gfycat doesn't embed properly like imgur does? imgur won't take this clip, it's too long.

wolrah fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jan 7, 2017

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

KidDynamite posted:

Are there any games that feature the new Focus RS it's my car IRL and I would like to sim drive it cool places.

Forza Horizon 3 isn't really a sim but it drives decent and is the best game to just screw around with cars in. It has the current Focus RS as well as the previous two versions, plus the current STs.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

njsykora posted:

I played it on Dolphin and it runs pretty well.

Yeah Dolphin is pretty close to perfect as far as Gamecube titles go. It's definitely the most usable of the emulators existing for recent systems.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Harminoff posted:

So I actually built a pretty nice pvc rig with a car seat and whatnot and really enjoy it but want to expand on it. Does anyone here have any experience with a buttkicker? It seems like it would add a lot and would be a good next step to take.

Should I just go with the buttkicker, and if so which one? Or should I make my own or skip it all together?

I don't have a buttkicker on my racing seat but I have one on my couch and it's pretty awesome. Mine's a ghettoed together setup with an ebay "speaker" unit being powered by an old car stereo amplifier running off a hacked PC power supply. I'd recommend going a few notches more professional than that.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

xzzy posted:

Which I've actually looked into in the past, and you definitely can do it, but there's no magic usb controller out there that lets you program the buttons via gui or anything. You're basically programming an arduino with keyboard codes.

https://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html

Though I personally find the Teensy Arduino gamepad mode really easy to work with and have built a few custom controllers with that.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

peter gabriel posted:

This is me every time I play Euro Truck Sim :v:

I wish the truck sim games had a better engine so they could maintain framerate more consistently, but it's still one of my favorite seated VR titles. With a wheel and VR even some of the most complicated deliveries become a piece of cake. Everything just feels right.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Eyud posted:

Top of my list for testing today: Nurburgring in the snow. :getin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bspJDkB83Kk

900HP Group 5 Datsun on the 'ring in snow.

This in VR might sell me on this game even with Forza coming out in a few days.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

orange juche posted:

What's hilarious is people getting bent and saying dude should demand a % royalty of the profits from F1 2017. Even if codemasters wanted to give him anything they couldn't because the dude has no rights to profit from that model because he never requested permission from Ferrari to make the F2002 model.

Two wrongs don't make a right though. There are a bunch of people in the linked thread, and you sort of sound like you're going the same direction, acting like the fact that the unofficial model isn't licensed somehow makes it OK for Codemasters to "reference". The comparison that overlays the polygons really sells it for me, where so much of the model is literally identical and many of the differences seen are actually because the person doing the comparison has an older version of the guy's model.

Obviously he couldn't actually take this to court in any way, but what's legally right and what's right often aren't the same thing.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

njsykora posted:

The dude was selling it as a royalty free model. Codemasters paid for the model and used it as reference. There is literally no moral quandry here. Dude might even end up getting a job out of it since the message they sent him seemed like they were impressed enough with his ability to get a good model without ever seeing the actual car.
According to the linked thread Codemasters did not purchase the model. The artist he communicated with claims they "found it for free on the internet" and offers to buy it on TurboSquid, but at least as of the last time the subject came up said purchase had not come through.

If CM had purchased the model ahead of time and credited the author you are correct, based on the TurboSquid license they'd be legally OK, but so far it doesn't look like they did either.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?
I never got around to putting one in my racing seat, but I have one mounted to my couch in my home theater setup. I'm using an amp designed for a car subwoofer powered by an old PC power supply so it cost like $40 out of pocket and it's wonderful.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Zaphod42 posted:

Windows is seriously lovely and I can't understand for the life of me why some goons trip over themselves to rush to its defense. I regularly miss races in iracing because windows just won't make the handshake connection with my wheel. It has the drivers installed and the wheel has worked fine before but on random days you still get the "windows is setting up your new device" bs popup

Because when you're talking about the majority desktop OS a problem that's the OS' fault generally affects ~everyone. The less people it affects the less likely it is to be the OS at fault.

If the rest of us using Fanatec wheels on Windows 10 aren't having the same problem, it probably isn't Windows' fault.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Zaphod42 posted:

This is extremely not true, lmao. Do you have any idea how many variables there are in a computer? Not like, variables in RAM, but like, significant experimental variables that change how my machine might operate compared to yours?

The idea that 2 people running the same OS should have all the same experiences is hilariously wrong. Do you not talk to your friends about computers or something?
MSP poo poo is my day job, so I probably touch more computers per week than most people do in their lives.

If you have a repeatable problem that's not happening to every remotely similar configuration it's probably not the OS. That's not to say it never can be, but that is saying that if you assume it's the OS without actual good reason to eliminate the other factors you're not being logical.

quote:

Especially with modern Windows 10 compared to older Windows releases. I bet you I could check 20 people's Windows 10 machines and they'd each be on a slightly different update version at any given day.

Do you have Windows 10 home or professional? Are you in insiders update? Do you have the latest beta updates or just the reliable release candidates?
Which CPU are you using? Which GPU? Which drivers? Which Mobo? Is the CPU overclocked or not? Does the CPU have hyperthreading? How many cores? Which instruction sets? Is the RAM timing all stock?

Like poo poo dude where do I even loving begin???

Even if we had identical hardware (which we do not) we'd have different software. Even if we had the same software, we'd have different updates. EVEN if we had the same updates, we'd have different configurations.
A modern computer is so insanely complicated the idea that any given problem should happen on most computers or it definitely isn't an OS issue is hilariously wrong.
Again, while yes all those differences can theoretically matter the odds that your problem is an OS bug specific to your configuration are so slim as to be not worth considering unless you've exhausted the more reasonable options. It would be a lot more likely that any of those hardware and third party software differences were themselves to blame.

It's like the old saying in programming, "it's never a compiler bug". It's not that it's impossible that you've stumbled upon a configuration that triggers a recurring bug in the OS which doesn't affect most users, it's just very unlikely.

When you come out saying "I'm having this obscure problem, it must be a bug in one of the most common pieces of software on my computer" it's in the same league as the guy blaming "the firewall" because he can't reach a single random web page.

quote:

Oh yeah? Well are you using discontinued Fanatec wheels that aren't getting driver updates, that were designed for Windows 7 and haven't been touched since then?

This is just hilariously small-minded thinking.

Unless you're claiming there's a bug in Windows 10 that only affects older Fanatec drivers this really shouldn't matter, but for the record I have the Forza CSR which was abandoned at 261 just like many of the 911 wheels (it's internally pretty much the same as the later ones).

wolrah fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Nov 29, 2017

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Harminoff posted:

Is there traffic yet in beamng? I see they added a new city nap, which is cool, but would rather not drive in a ghost town.

There kinda sorta is, but not really traffic as much as you can spawn multiple cars and assign very basic "AI" behaviors to them if the map you're playing on has paths configured.

There are pretty much three modes; random, chase, and flee. Random just drives around and makes a die roll at every intersection to decide what it's going to do. Chase lets you select another vehicle and the AI will do its best to ram in to it, following roads as much as possible. Flee is the inverse of that, the AI will do its best to get as far as it can from the selected vehicle. I believe there are more advanced options available in scenarios for selecting specific paths but I haven't dug too deep in to those.

I like to stage 8-12 police cars around a map, set them on random for a few minutes, then set them to chase me while I drive some capable but unbalanced vehicle (like maybe it has a lot of power but poo poo tires, or great off-road suspension but the smallest motor) and see if I can survive long enough for them to take themselves out.

The West Coast USA map's paths are still pretty janky, I was having cars trying to cut corners through buildings and there was a bridge that they'd just stop and then move forward/backward repeatedly at the edge of. The Utah map is pretty good for this.

Also doing the reverse is fun sometimes, set the AI up in a bunch of various "getaway" cars and me in a cop car that I've tweaked to be stupid fast trying to take them all out without wrecking my own car.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Thief posted:

can you imagine this game engine with pvp destruction derby mode. i hope the devs can at least eventually cash out by selling what they've learned to be used in other games.

Wreckfest (previously knowns as Next Car Game) is vaguely in that direction. It doesn't have as detailed of a physics model as BeamNG but it's built around detailed crashing.

It is possible to use multiple gamepads to control multiple vehicles in BeamNG, but it doesn't have a split screen mode so it'd only really work to do a top-down view on the demolition derby map and maybe some of the smaller circuits.

I can see why they don't do multiplayer though, there's just too much to keep synchronized for it to work well. The only way to not have it require powerhouse servers would be to trust each client to handle the physics of its own vehicles/objects, and that still leaves room for lag or one player running on a potato to cause the whole game to jank up.

wolrah fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Nov 30, 2017

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

tater_salad posted:

edit: IMO here's how money spent should go Wheel>Pedals>>Shifter.

Agreed 100%. Aside from my immersion the only actual advantage offered by an h-pattern shifter is the ability to go directly between non-neighboring gears, which is rarely a huge deal outside of the truck sim type stuff. Slamming it in to reverse when I've spun out is probably the most common situation I use that capability in a racing game.

A good wheel is a big deal, good pedals are nice, a good shifter is almost entirely fun over functionality.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Dirt Road Junglist posted:

I have similar pedals, and got a foam soccer ball that's about 5-6" in diameter, cut it in half, and shoved it into the space behind the brake pedal. It's not a load cell, but it's way better than the unmodded pedal was.

I did this with a stress ball on my old official 360 wheel. Pedal feel on my load cell Fanatecs is still certainly better but the modded MS pedals are surprisingly close.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

GutBomb posted:

I’d love of these games had an in game currency system that was hard to earn and you had to use it to pay for repairs to your cars. That would curb dirty racing real quick.

Or when the inevitable money exploits happen you end up with the same kinds of assholes doing the same things, just now they have an impact beyond ruining one race.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?
The most fun in BeamNG definitely happens at lower speeds. It was the same thing with its predecessor, Rigs of Rods, where the "realistic" physics model is probably doing the math right but just isn't simulating with enough detail to get the real world answer. In the real world tires flex in thousands of places per tread block to grab around the texture of the road surface, where in the Beam world you have a few hundred polygons at best against a perfectly flat surface with a semi-arbitrary traction multiplier applied.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?
I will definitely agree that a cheap wheel can be worse than a gamepad. I have never had a good experience with a non-force wheel and would gladly take a modern gamepad (especially an Xbox One pad with the individual trigger vibration that Forza uses so well) over something like the Mad Catz piece of poo poo I had as a kid.

A proper force wheel on the other hand, it's an entirely different game. The precision you get while also having the feel of the road is just wonderful.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Rated PG-34 posted:

They need to implement a bus in Dakar rally for desert bus 2.0
Desert Bus 2.0 actually already happened.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/638110/Desert_Bus_VR/

It's free, it supports VR, and it even has multiplayer.

Not saying Dakar Bus is a bad idea though.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Zaphod42 posted:

Very unlikely

Its a lovely UWP port of an xbox game. Wish MS would just release on pc proper instead. They make the most boneheaded decisions.

This was accurate when FM6A was released, and even early on in FH3's life AFAIK, but at this point most of the UWP-related issues have been resolved.

FM7 definitely supports multiple input devices and I think FH3 has been updated for it, so there's no reason to believe FH4 went backwards.

I'd try it myself but I sold my Fanatec and don't have room for a new sim setup at the moment so I'm playing gamepad style.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?
Apparently I'm weird but I loved Horizon 1 on wheel. Horizon 1 and Motorsport 4 I played almost 100% on wheel.with simulation steering and it was great. I haven't played any of the Xbone versions on a wheel though so I'm not sure if they've gotten worse or something.

Anime Store Adventure posted:

Also surprise, he’s much better at mastering extremely dirty racing and slamming me into a wall on a 3 lap track we’ll never see again because there’s a thousand races. And also whoops, now he wants to get a new class of car after I’ve just tuned and learned the finer points of my last one perfectly.
To a certain extent if you play the game heavily you begin to learn the map and can have a good expectation of what's to come, just like you begin to learn the details of the roads you drive on in the real world. Until you reach that point I say there's no shame in turning on the racing line feature so you have a better idea where the track is going. I've been playing this series since the beginning and I still often end up turning it on with some of the cross-country style races because the intended route is not always clear.

In the end though, and this applies to the vehicle thing too, getting good at Horizon is not about mastering your car/track to eke every last hundredth out of it. It's about being adaptable and being able to make it work with whatever you're handed.

quote:

Not saying there’s anything wrong with the way he has fun, but it’s the opposite of how I’ve come to want to race in video games.
Can't argue that. If what makes you tick is perfecting every single corner, Horizon is not the game for you but there are many other options out there.

Also yes, :420: and :cheers: make Forza games better. I don't think I've played any of them completely sober since maybe the second one.

wolrah fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jul 25, 2019

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Cojawfee posted:

If you can't pay money to whoever owns it for a new copy, then pirating and buying used is pretty much the same thing.

I'm of two minds on this one. Obviously in neither case does the publisher, developer, or anyone else responsible for that game's existence get money, so from that standpoint they're equal. There are still differences.

If I buy a legitimate used copy of the game, I get the moral warm and fuzzy (however small it may be) for doing it all legit and someone else gets money for a game they didn't want anymore. I also might get some or all of the other things that physically came with the game

Of course if I pirate such an "abandonware" title I get it for free and no one loses anything, unless the person selling the used copy really needed that money and was unable to find any other interested buyers. One could even make an argument that popularity in pirate land could help make the case for bringing an old title back to market or even doing a remake. That's probably stretching a bit, but it seems plausible that the rightsholders are looking at those numbers where they have no idea what's happening on the resale market.

Not really taking a position here, just throwing thoughts out.

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wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Jim Silly-Balls posted:

They don’t allow lifetime subs anymore and they try their damnedest to get you off them

For instance, in like 2014 they switched their stance that you can only move a lifetime subscription once and then you have to buy a regular sub.

I was moving my sub from car to car and they refused to move it. I went as far as saying the old car was in a wreck and I couldn’t keep the sub on it. They requested a police report. :psypop:

Sirius is so bad about it that there is a cottage industry of people selling the portable car radios with lifetime subs still on them on ebay

All of that is loving hilarious, because it's trivial to keep a receiver active after service is discontinued.

I own three standalone Sirius receivers, the newest of which hasn't had an active subscription in 8 years, and they all work fine to this day if I actually bother to hook them up. All of my units are pre-merger hardware so I have no idea what may have changed in the years since, but with these they activate and deactivate by receiving control pings from the satellite. There is no expiration after which they must be reactivated, once activated they work forever until deactivated.

As you may have been able to guess, this means if you just disconnect it before the deactivation signal goes out, you're good to go. They do re-send the signal multiple times after service is terminated, but there's only so much bandwidth on the control channel and they have other things that need it so eventually they stop sending signals for old deactivated receivers. There's obviously no official information, but the internet seems to think that you're safe after a few months. Maybe during major listening events they might run back through their backlog, but I gave one of mine that had been deactivated in 2006 to a coworker in 2008 and he used it for three years before giving it back when he got a new car that had satellite built in. The one I have in my garage worked great until I accidentally cut the cord to the outdoor antenna when weed whacking.

tl;dr: Unless they've changed something, any sub can become a lifetime sub if you want it to.

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