|
Sir Kodiak posted:I find it a little odd to call a figure strongly associated with amazing feats of physical strength and a spectacular ability to engage in physical combat a trickster figure. John McClane from Die Hard's a trickster figure because he cracks jokes and pushes the 3.5th wall.
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2016 15:01
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 16, 2024 23:30 |
|
|
cvnvcnv posted:Pretty sure in one of the original flavor origins Bruce joins the FBI but quits a couple or few months in because all he learned was procedures and rules where his interest lied in catching criminals and saving people. He saw it as what he wanted to do but severely handicapped and passionless and so he left to do things his way. He didnt quit a few months in; that's where he learned detectiving and associated skills. He learned ninjaing and that associated skillset through his time doing other things. Learning about criminal justice was important to him. THe other people are right about him wanting to lead change through a symbol, rather than being bogged down with the sort of thing a future Commissioner Gordon had to deal with through a corrupt police and justice system.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2016 16:44
|
|
|
I really wish they'd hired Lucy Lawless to be Hippolatia, because then I could work out some sort of fanficcy/headcannon thing about Wonderwoman being a relative of Xena.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 22, 2016 14:37
|
|
|
^^^  MeatwadIsGod posted:Ehh, that's a bit too on the nose. Robin Wright is pretty good at playing clinical brutality, which seems fitting for an immortal warrior queen. I don't want her to play Xena...but I think Lucy Lawless is pretty cool, the xena history would just be a little bonus coincidence unrelated to the actual movie. Robin Wright's super dope, at least. Lucy Lawless, though.  
|
|
#
¿
Jul 22, 2016 17:17
|
|
|
Codependent Poster posted:That breastplate is just about as ridiculous as the Power Rangers. Those breast pockets are where she keeps her lunch and wallet.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 22, 2016 17:50
|
|
|
feedmyleg posted:Honestly think the Spider-Man costume on film would look dope if it added some Chucks. Would the science of him sticking to walls still work through that thick rubber sole? 
|
|
#
¿
Jul 22, 2016 21:07
|
|
|
I thought SS was a trash heap of editing/cuts and what seemed like half-finished scenes, but I really dug the little bit of Leto's Joker that we got to see. It was an interesting take on the character, just a whole heap of contradiction and dysfunction. The Joker seemed to have an awareness of his persona/reputation and was working hard to maintain it in a way the other Jokers don't seem to Leto's Joker is an inorganic version, which is pretty cool. Deadshot was a fun, @WillSmithVehicle and I can't fault that, but was super cliched with his 'mah kid!!' which got uninteresting. Harley is super hot and ... ... actually she was pretty interesting aside from a few lines of dialog which were just utterly awful. A lot of the other characters were cool in theory, but woefully non-existent in application. The dialog came across as stilted and hollow much of the time - empty like a sitcom without its laughtrack. "wordswords" - beat beat - "words words" - beat beat. I felt pretty bored watching the movie in the theater, but drat, there were bits and pieces interspersed that made it not totally irredeemable. If this was Ayer's vision as he defends then I think he has pretty poo poo vision. The movie was nice and colorful at times, I guess. Coming off the awesomeness of MoS and BvS(extended cut) this was a crap in the pants.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2016 00:09
|
|
|
Kurzon posted:This is a good question. The best batmans for most people are the versions they grew up with as a child. The one they've spent the most time with. I LOVE BTAS Batman, but I fuckin' love the idea of a Millar-ish BvS Batman as well. Even if Mark Millar himself is mostly loving nuts. A lot of people don't invest thought into why they like one particular version, especially if they're just 'used' to it, so they react vitriolically when their constants are tested. To me, the idea that the government allows superheroes but doesn't regulate them to death is the most 'comic' idea within the superhero universe. Hyperion's backstory up until he learns as an adult how the government manipulated him growing up is probably one of the more realistic things in the comic book universe.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2016 16:57
|
|
|
Karloff posted:I think Batman is a far more interesting, and better character when he is not killing. He certainly seems to be the most interesting that way, the version in BvS was poorly thought out, one-dimensional and bad, though incredibly effective on a surface textural level (best Bat voice, best Bat suit, best Bat fighting, Affleck's performance is excellent) which I think is the main reason people are going great lengths to convince others (but really themselves) that he's really great.  Source your quotes. Haha
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
Karloff posted:No doubt. But I'm not obligated to like every single one though. Yes, I like multiple different version of Batman, I like Adam West Batman, I like Nolan Batman, I like Scott Snyder Batman, I like Miller Batman (sometimes) I like Burton Batman, all very different, all I think are interesting and good. I do not like BvS Batman, I think he is bad, I think on the whole Batman killing does not work, though there are exceptions like the aforementioned Burton Batman and some of Miller's stuff that contextualize the killing interestingly. BvS failed to contextualize the killing interestingly. Burton Batman killed more people than BvS Batman.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:I guess my real question is, has the BvS Batman been OK with killing the whole time or is it a recent development? Literally the movie tells us he's become more violent and murderous recently.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
Not to mention many of the bit characters mentioning how "strange it is that Batman's become so loving brutal and been 'branding people to die' over the past year/month". It's on a television news report and newspaper, for god's sake. It's always weird to see people saying things like "this, this, and this is why I hate this version of Batman; Goddamn BvS sucks Vote Trump" except their arguments are so off base they're basically proving that they've never even watched the movie.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2016 23:35
|
|
|
SOmebody please edit the awesome Batman fight scene where he's rescuing Martha Kent to have the 60's POW and BAM violence effects so the true comics fanboys can be mollified.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 05:25
|
|
|
How do you type all that with your fingers in your ears, eyes squished shut, yelling "lalalalala" the whole time? Is that how you watched the movie, too?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 05:51
|
|
|
Karloff posted:Yes, that is how I watched the film, it's why I didn't realize it's a secret arthouse masterpiece made by geniuses, and not at all a studio mandated, lazily constructed, thematically empty, lifeless and boring mess that has a naked contempt for its audience. It's by no means an arthouse masterpiece (not that I would be able to label a movie that), but your arguments and interpretations are colored by something that has no bearing on what the movie actually portrayed, implicitly or otherwise. Your arguments don't really have any bearing on the movie you're trying to argue against, mainly because they're so inaccurate.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 06:03
|
|
|
Robin's dead, that's a pretty huge consequence of Batman's violent actions. Someone clearly responded to Batman's behavior. The movie also shows the moral consequences of violence more than the boring "ho-hum watch me be laid up in a hospital for three months" type of simplified immediate reaction to the act of violence. We see the victims of Batman beating the gently caress out of them and branding are in decent enough shape after their trial and sentencing, showing that he'll try to submit them before he'll try to kill them in self defense. The people Batman kills are all in the act of trying to categorically kill Batman - that I can remember. The car chase, the day of him stealing the kryptonite is him at his essentially lowest, most desperate point. I guess he kills people with his batmobile pre-emptively, perhaps. The first time we see Batman in the film he's running away; he's barely human as he slinks out away from the gunfire; he's a demon. The women he's saved are terrified of him and he doesn't really give much a poo poo about them because he's so focused on finding a way to destroy Superman his energy is on the criminal. As for the warehouse fight scene, he's beast-moding out and is free of all his previous fears of the past two years. He's aware of his manipulation and realizes that Superman is actually probably not that bad a guy - at his death Clark's begging Bruce to save his mom - and he's got a purpose at that moment in the warehouse that is explicitly the reason he became Batman in the first place, all those years ago. He's saving someone's mother from the bad guys with guns. At the warehouse he's no longer afraid of Superman, he's actually found a kindred soul and he shrugs off those bullets because he's fighting to save lives again. The woman he saves is friendly and even grateful for his intervention - doesn't she even wave to him as he flies away? Batman's renewed his purpose and is no longer cognitively dissonant. Thankfully, he's still the beautiful, violent angel of destruction we all know and love. In the 'real' Batman movie world he's going to capture criminals and send them off to the cops, but if it comes down to killing or dying he's probably not going to sit down and wait for someone to murder him. Them or him it's going to be them. You can't peacefully violence someone into unconsciousness or catastrophic skeletal damage. In the movie, Batman's time to shine was this warehouse scene. He's fighting bad guy humans to save an innocent human - and in doing so to also save himself and bring Batman back under the mantle of humanity. WW and Superman shone against the alien menace.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 07:06
|
|
|
TetsuoTW posted:You mean all those dudes he leaves "unconscious" with "30 bpm" heart rates? It's a shame Batman's developed faulty software for his biofeedback sensory hardware. Someone should look into that.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 07:27
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:I like how Karloff can come in and make numerous excellent points with actual evidence from media to back them up, and when people can't come up with a response they just insult him out of the thread. To be clear, people think that Batman not killing is totally unrealistic whereas him killing a few people every now and then is totally realistic. And we should cheering Batman for taking another mans life, despite the fact that he possesses the skill and the numerous non-lethal tools necessary to subdue them non-lethally. We can introduce 20 instances of Batman being non-lethal but this is totally cast aside the moment its pointed out that some Batman, somewhere, killed. 20 years of awesome stories are irrelevant because in a "post watchmen world" (which I have to assume is everything after 1986) they are suddenly stupid. It totally makes sense for Batman to see an alien and decide then that human life isn't worth saving, despite it being the thing he's afraid Superman will do. You are amazing because that's literally not true. I'm amazed by your abilities to deceive yourself and create a new pocket fictional reality where you can function semi-coherently.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 16:15
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:And let's be clear, if you are OK with Batman killing people, you are condoning the act of killing. This is awfully sorta strawmanny. Who cares if I condone killing in self-defense during efforts to stop crimes? Who cares if I condone killing? The discussion about Batman has been a couple of people whining about how much they truly love their childhood hero Batman and how dare anyone complicate the Berenstain Bears-esque level of fiction about a man they wish they could be who brutalizes criminals and there's no fuckin' way that a movie that explores a more grounded level of consequence show such things. SolidSnakesBandana posted:So I just made up in my head all the posts of people saying that Batman having a no-kill rule is totally unrealistic and that a realistic Batman would kill? To say nothing of the people that come out and claim that Batman has always killed and its weird to expect him to have a no-kill rule. A realistic Batman could kill. It's refreshing to see the filmmaker build a rational reason as to why that might happen to a guy who maybe wouldn't otherwise consistently do such a thing - refreshing to see the consequences of Batman's violent rampages acknowledged. Also, he's not killing willy-nilly like a serial killer. Batman STILL subdues bad guys and lets the cops handle the rest. It's cool you don't like the movie. It's not cool you're creating a narrative of the movie that in no way reflects the actual movie. Say you didn't like it because you refuse to accept a different evolution of Batman and you can't stomach the difference. Don't say you hate the movie because the scene where Alfred stabs a unicorn in the nutsack and dances naked around a dead stripper Batman crucified at Seaworld. You're screaming and shouting NOT MY BATMAN so hard that nostalgia is blinding you to anything else. Drifter fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Aug 21, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 16:43
|
|
|
Karloff posted:I have never once said that I did not like this Batman because he doesn't remind me of whatever Batman was in my childhood. Or that he's unfaithful to some sort of ultimate Batman. You are saying what that is what I am doing because that is easier than tackling my points. I have suggested that Batman killing rarely works because it has rarely been done well, and it is done especially poorly in BvS because it's not the Batman I have come to love. The bolded extension is the single subtext that runs through each of your arguments, despite your denials to such. All of your posts run off this single childlike blind nostalgic conceit because all of your posts to this point are irrational and uninformed. None of your complaints have any basis in the movie that was run in theaters or now available on bluray.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 17:41
|
|
|
Burkion posted:All three of them have in the past and will in the future. The next time Spider-man kills they'll just BraveNewDay it away. Sir Kodiak posted:What are these multiple conflicting reasons? Less than ten percent of what he talks about has to do with the movie.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 18:10
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:Superman's an individual with the power to interact with nation-states as equals, with the joke being that despite how scary that is, he's still a much better moral actor than most nation-states. If Batman finds Superman that terrifying, he should probably be an anarchist. Batman's just a space racist. All this talk about how he's "not even human" and how Clark's parents were all "probably not murdered right in front of his eyes as a young lad". He's a jealous space racist. It was pretty funny at the end of the movie when Bruce is all waxing poetic about how humankind isn't all that bad when we really actually are. That ending monologue was the least believable part of the movie, imo.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 18:38
|
|
|
Rarity posted:So is Suicide Squad any good? I didn't like it. I enjoyed the take on The Joker; thought Will Smith was Will Smithing pretty good but pretty uninterestingly cliched, felt that Harley was about as good as Will Smith. The other characters were pretty soft and not that neat or boringly underutilized. Overall, the movie seemed like a summary of an actual movie. Coming off of MoS and BvS it just seemed shallow and boring. On its own it seemed like a mediocre TV show. I thought the relationship conflict presented between Joker and Harley was actually pretty interesting.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 18:55
|
|
|
KVeezy3 posted:. Batman even admits that his past 20 years of work has resulted in no real change. Batman said this at the height of his emotional desperation and tension. Him admitting that was a feeling, not a fact. He feels like he doesn't make a difference sometimes; he makes a difference to the people of Gotham.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 19:39
|
|
|
Stacks posted:I've always thought of Batman as a 'law and order' right winger. He's a billionaire beating up poor people to restore order. He's gone after the richest crime families in Gotham as often as he's gone after the lowest level street thug. The beating up poor people meme is just that - our country's forceful effort to equate a lack of a job with laziness and criminality rather than gentrification and upperclass capitalist domination. And most of the criminals in Gotham have a few bank robberies or human trafficking deals under their belt at the least, so Batman mostly preys upon the modestly successful middle-class. Drifter fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Aug 21, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 22:42
|
|
|
^^^ Jesus loving christ lay off the physics bullshit. If you need to correct him, send him a PM or post it, don't make some vague bullshit statement about him "just not understanding it".BiggerBoat posted:What, you don't have a strong opinion about Batman killing people? I don't think we've broached that topic yet. If Star Wars ep 4 happened today no one would give a poo poo in a year. Except for its soundtrack. That's timeless. Hell, ep 7, a remake of ep 4, came out today and as a movie that stands alone it's literally nothing special or interesting. Drifter fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Aug 22, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Aug 22, 2016 02:50
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:It does get old, doesn't it? Hahaha Hahahahahaha What, are you reading posts from Earth-2 or something?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 22, 2016 03:02
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:What do chatbots generate? Everybody posts
|
|
#
¿
Aug 22, 2016 05:40
|
|
|
Slugworth posted:And in a film where an alien slams a guy through several concrete walls at the speed of sound, and then claims a couple scenes later he didn't kill him. Clark says "I didn't kill those people," in reference to the mutilated and burned villagers, not that he didn't kill the guy who was threatening to shoot Lois.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 22, 2016 23:21
|
|
|
DeimosRising posted:Conversely, it's fine for batman to wander around assaulting people and manufacturing cases for the prosecution as long as he (and the reader) are disgusted by their actions. Notwithstanding that one of the stock openings to a Batman/Spider-Man story is them tarzaning away from some bound and beaten people, their crimes left totally off panel. In which context their preferred modes of transport ( brachiating from building to building on artificial vines) is notable - they are the kings of the urban jungle, and all the apes and animals are under their jurisdiction. In the (batman) movies he always drives away not grapple...or in Batman '89 he just tumbles down buildings, I guess.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 23, 2016 05:41
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:It works in Superman: The Movie where they're just getting to know each other, because you get Clark's internal conflict over wanting to show that side of himself. Once they're in a relationship, though, yeah, it's gross, and these movies are much stronger for just having them be in a relationship without all that Lois & Clark melodrama. No no Superman is a paragon of goodness and righteousness and him gaslighting his girlfriend Lois Lane at every turn is totally okay because
|
|
#
¿
Aug 23, 2016 17:05
|
|
|
Jimbot posted:Did anyone else never like the secret identity thing between Clark and Lois? Even when I was a kid I never bought it and when I grew older I realized how gross it was. It just didn't look good for either character. Showed that Superman didn't respect Lois enough and it showed that Lois was blind and bad at figuring things out. In Man of Steel at least it is used to show that Lois is a drat good investigative journalist rather than just saying she is. I still remember golden/silver age Superman comics where half the subplot between Clark and Lois was basically Clark: "This dumb bitch doesn't know I'm Superman." Lois: "Hey, I've been investigating Superman and isn't it funny that you -" Clark: *mind controls Lois* "Hah! Make me a sandwich, you lazy idiot!" and am surprised people could even have an attachment to half the characters that are famous. I mean, I'm incredibly overjoyed that the sexism has at least evolved, because holy gently caress comics were TERRIBLE.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 23, 2016 18:19
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:I don't think I'd call Adam West athletic either. Adam West and Burt Ward were in pretty darn good shape, actually.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 23, 2016 20:10
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:BvS isn't a sequel to the Nolan movies. Different Batman, different continuity. If you care about that kind of stuff. Lots of people seem to think BvS is a sequel to TDKR. Which, if that many people do, then I can see why they feel the need to always reboot with an origin story. It's like, thematically a sequel. But yeah, it's not an actual sequel.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 23, 2016 20:50
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Or is this another one of those things that doesn't count because Batman's fictional? It's a beautiful ideal. You can't argue convincingly against Faith.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 24, 2016 01:34
|
|
|
ThePlague-Daemon posted:
I always thought it was pretty hilarious that Batman's giving all those copycats poo poo about equipment and then the next cut his mecha-fist is having critical usage failures and he's being driven into garage columns because he's stuck to a van door. Also,  and 
Drifter fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Aug 24, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Aug 24, 2016 15:10
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Can't it just be his oldest friend? The only thing he has from the 'old days'? It's pretty clear he has a soft spot for things like that. That seems reason enough. This is kind of what I think, too. I've never thought Cap was jockin' after dick - that just wasn't the sign I got between him and Buck (rhymes with gently caress?!?!).
|
|
#
¿
Aug 24, 2016 15:42
|
|
|
Yaws posted:Martha?!? MARTHA! I can understand that Batman was able to figure it out, since he is a great detective, while you are not.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 25, 2016 04:27
|
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:what I really want is a Batman who brands human traffickers so they get murked up in prison. Batman's ALWAYS been a loving dick. 
|
|
#
¿
Aug 26, 2016 01:14
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 16, 2024 23:30 |
|
|
Detective Dog Dick posted:David Ayer has made at least two excellent films. Unfortunately neither of those films were Suicide Squad.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 26, 2016 02:30
|
|