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420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

Pipski posted:

Any tips for not getting my poo poo comprehensively pushed in by Bretonnia? Their knights just marmalise me every time, by a ratio of like 6:1. I've only just got access to knights - and I have that one unit of Reiksguard I've been carefully preserving since the start - nothing that can compete with 300 of the bastards stamping all over my lovely spearmen.

You're playing as empire right?

Bring loads up artillery and fight them in their cities. Bretonnian AI loves to have 6-12 cards of cavalry in a 20 stack and most of them will be uselessly mulling around the town square where you can pummel them and their friends with hellfire rockets until you can overwhelm them with lovely spearmen

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420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

Afriscipio posted:

I'm having some trouble with the Varg and Skaeling on my current Empire campaign. I need to deal with Chaos awakening in the Northeast, but I keep getting pulled back to deal will full raiding stacks of northern tribesmen. I tried razing their settlements, but it's taking too long and attrition is bastard that far North.

Any suggestions?

Oh, and the quest for Ghal Maraz now wants me to destroy orkish settlements. I haven't seen an orc since turn 15.

Best bet is to keep Nordland alive and happy, even if you end up at war with them early on when conquering middenland just shoo them away and show up with a big stack and they'll give you gold to gently caress off. Leave them alone and fight vampires/orcs/chaos and eventually every human faction will love you and accept alliances and trade or whatever. Any human faction with more than a single settlement will eventually end up with 1-2 full 20 stacks that they send around fighting chaos and norsca

Also I wouldnt worry about orcs, dwarfs almost always get overrun and you'll have greenskins cramming themselves up into your eastern provinces in no time.

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Korgan posted:

I got that one by chasing down a fleeing Thorgrim Grudgebearer. He was the sole survivor of the previous battle, and was on one health. Doom diver hit him, battle over, cheevo get.

I earned Iron-Hard and Angry chasing down Grimgor Ironhide. I deployed 5 units of miners with blasting charges right in front of him and he died alone in a hail of dynamite.

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

Voyager I posted:

Your deployment is probably going to change every battle based on the exact composition of your army (including the condition of various units if any have taken serious losses in recent fighting), your opponent and their composition, whether you are attacking or defending, and the layout of the terrain you are fighting on.

Also turn off/on your autocorrect.

Rome 2 had a great system of deployment templates that would organize your army instantly into multiple different layouts and also multiple auto-formations where you could select a group of units and organize them into double lines, triple lines, assign cav to secure flanks etc.

In TW: Warhammer all that's left of that is the ability to make a melee or missile fronted double line.


It would be really nice if we could get all those deployment options back or better yet, a deployment template you can script for yourself

I would even settle for a triple line that puts Guns in front, Melee in the middle and archers in the back

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

drat Dirty Ape posted:

Every starting capital is like that. They basically have the fortress upgrade added in.

e: And even though the game lists the dwarfs starting position as easy I don't necessarily think they are the easiest faction to play.

On easier difficulties Dwarves have a great start, Orcs are 90% of your early game enemies and your infantry and artillery are head and shoulders above theirs

Dwarf Warriors can hold the line indefinitely and without and of the leadership penalties of higher difficulties will fight to the last man before routing and when their enemy routs first the shorties can poke them full of holes

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Athropos posted:

Holy balls is the chaos start crushingly difficult on hard. I restarted it like 4 times and savescummed a bit to even the odds. Im playing with a heavily modded game but I spent like 100 turns running away from about 6 skaeling stacks just getting my single archaon army to like god tier levels with a level 30 Archaon and finally stood my ground and wrecked those stacks. All my attempts at raising another lasting army didnt work since I never had enough money to maintain two high tiered armies which is the only thing that would stand to Norscan spam. Im using the chaos divided mod which adds amazing unique units to the chaos and northmen roster, such as khorne berzerkers, nurgle plague guards and manticore knights but also give very good mid tier units to the Norscans (on par with the chaos warrior unit)and the AI just shits out full chevron stacks of those and chaos trolls with gold chevrons. So I spent the whole evening doing whack a mole awaken/subjugate up north while the skaelings followed me everywhere and got like 15 settlements.I managed to raise a second high tier stack with Sigvald and had enough momentum to crush the northern tribes. However my vassals are already breaking off with me I dont give a gently caress im going to Kislev. Im finally breaking out though but jesus christ the chaos campaign is very wierdly designed. Maybe I should have found a way to ally with the varg and skaeling instead of trying to clean up everything with one stack.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=701170286&searchtext=varg

Norsca tribes get a building that lets them recruit fresh units with gold chevrons and gives them a crapton of income to fund huge stacks with (They get ~600 from a max level settlement compared to ~120 for most other factions)

That mod fixes them up to get buildings comparable to the other factions

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

Gejnor posted:

Also, you think the autoresolve hates Fluffy? Try Slayers, it'll just auto-kill them even with a good mod on.

Hell i made a personal super OP mod where the slayers had: 25% physical resistance, 20% missile resistance and 40 armour and it STILL loving autokilled the unit in autoresolve.

Autoresolve is where creative assembly stick their most byzantine and arcane game mechanics. No one knows how or why it gets the results it gets, as far as I can tell it just simulates the two armies being mashed together and has a seething hatred for single model units

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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SunAndSpring posted:

There any good guides for this? I'm still a bit confused on what kinds of buildings I should go for first.

Campaign Map tips

-Every province needs 1 or more growth buildings until their main building chains are filled out, after that you can keep the building (some factions get bonus casualty replenishment from growth chain or other bonuses) or replace it with something more useful

-Take whole provinces as often as possible, it will allow you to set province-wide bonuses like +5% tax rate or +4 public order; and many buildings apply their effects to the whole province so you get more out of a densely built up province where you control all the settlements, than haphazardly spread out settlements

-Build as many of your basic economic building as you can early on. This is the building in the infrastructure tab that just gives +Gold per turn. Dwarves and Empire have very good ones, Vampire Counts and Orcs are less good but you will still need a few


-Dont double up on recruitment buildings early; even if you can only recruit strong troops in one province, you shouldnt bother having a level 2+ barracks building or any other specialty recruitment buildings in every single province its a waste of cash you need

-Agent units are very strong on the campaign map and in battles, this is true of all factions but maybe twice as true for Empire with the most varied and strong agents in the game, look into which buildings unlock what agents and try to get some on the map as early as possible so they can start building levels. Assassin agents are arguably the most important because of AI agent spam so Witch Hunters, Banshees, and Goblin Big Bosses are priority #1 depending on your faction

-In your primary military province try to rush down one line of very effective high tech troop recruitment buildings. Like for Empire this could be the buildings for Steam Tanks or Demigryph Knights; but trying to get both right away is prohibitively expensive, so just focus on getting access to one or two high tech units and come back for the rest later

-when you first conquer a new province, start out with adding 1 or 2 +growth buildings in those settlements, you need growth points to upgrade the main building chain in each settlement (and thus unlock more building slots)

420 Gank Mid fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jun 25, 2016

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!



My Balthasar Gelt loves Vampire Counts so much he is standing in the ruins of their freshly razed capital

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Danann posted:

Is there anything you can do to deal with Gondor's bullshit ghost army stacks? My vassals are useless and simply hand end up giving Gondor free boats.

What's a ghost gonna do with a boat?

:iiam:

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Grognan posted:

Discord is giving people free poo poo for shilling for a bad app. Reconsider.

Sorry you dont like free software friend

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Rand alPaul posted:

They're advancing across the map, the AI (like in almost every TW game) usually will kill more of your units than your artillery will of theirs. I have Doom Drivers that I shoot at the Helcannons and they don't usually kill them fast enough. In this battle I had 2 boar big uns that didn't really do poo poo except fight off a marauder charge against said Doom Drivers.


Playing as orcs and you only have 2 units of cav? Orc Boar Boy Big'uns are far and away the most useful cavalry anywhere near that kind of price. Its heavy armor, has a shield, armor piercing damage, anti-large, and has a huge charge bonus.

If they came unmounted in unit sizes of 60+ they would be exactly the kind of strong line infantry people have been complaining about orcs not having earlier in this thread. They are amazing counter cavalry because of their huge damage vs enemy armored cavalry and the morale shock of a full rear charge from these guys is comparable to Reiksguard-tier cavalry.


Their only weakness is low morale and relatively lovely combat stats when they aren't charging, but they are so cheap it almost doesnt matter because you can bring 4 boar boy big uns for every 2 units of heavy cav your enemy can field.

Use half your boar boys to deal with enemy cavalry, either by tying them up long enough for AP infantry to surround them or by getting your melee line charged and then hitting them in the back with the boars

And then use the other half to disable the enemy artillery and harry their missile infantry

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Rand alPaul posted:

Alright I'll try again with more cav. I have been using more the spider cav for flanking and poison debuff.

Greenskins are really hurting for armor piercing damage early. Dwarf infantry have a floor somewhere around 60-80 armor (bar slayers) and plenty are in triple digits, half of them hold shields to boot. Goblin archers (even the higher tier ones) do a grand total of ~1 armor piercing damage and orc arrer boyz aren't much better. On harder difficulties AI dwarfs will fight to the last man every time so your archers (especially mounted archers) will run out of ammunition before making a significant dent in their numbers and then be unable to shock the dwarves into routing. Boar Boyz will at least be able to chop them up a bit and has enough mass to knock down those dwarf axe lords that are so nearly invincible early on

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

Gejnor posted:

Big 'uns, either in cav or non-cav mode, don't come with shields. You may as well stick with normal boar boyz imo, both have terrible stats overall but atleast the boar boyz won't melt under arrow fire. Also cheaper, earlier tier yadda yadda.

Also not sure what you mean by them being as good as a reiksguard, going by
http://whenc.totalwar.com/#/unit_compare/wh_main_grn_cav_orc_boar_boy_big_uns,wh_main_emp_cav_reiksguard
The reiksguard have super superiour stats, are you talking stuff like hidden mass weight or whatever?

You're right the big'uns dont have shields like the regular ones do, but I was talking about morale shock not stats compared to the Reiksguard

If you mouse-over the leadership bar of units in combat the tooltip will display what does what, some of the biggest leadership debuffs you can get before a unit is severely damaged is "Attacked from behind" and "Surrounded by stronger and faster units"

Your units dont have to have great stats to do the same leadership damage as other better shock cavalry, it just needs to be stronger and faster than the infantry they are attacking. So yes your Boar Boyz will never rout Reiksguard or Blood Knights but they are still going to give huge leadership penalties to all but the most-elite infantry

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Gonkish posted:

Not if they're all Mace "The Ace" Tyrell with his super badass armor and awesome facial hair. He'd be too confused or too busy giving terrible speeches to uninterested soldiers to be killed.

Sweet Summer child...

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

Rand alPaul posted:

I actually hosed up the Dwarves really early and killed Ungrim and Thorgrim with Grimgor and my boys. The battle I was complaining about was against Chaos, and I just had another instant-rout against the Empire, where my general ended up surrounded by halberdiers and Big Uns broke after about 15-20 seconds of fighting. Goblin Fanatics broke with them, leaving my general and spiders killing hundreds of dudes before tucking tale and running.

I think this is a harder difficulty glitch "feature", because I can't figure it out otherwise. I mean it was Big Uns versus halberds and great swords, and unless I'm missing something neither of those units cause fear/terror. To make matters worse the Empire was on march so they were tired, and I had 2 rock lobbas murdering their lines as they marched toward me.

If this is in the campaign there is a banner that generals can assign to a unit to give them fear/terror

Also, what does your combat line look like? It matters a lot whether your army is holding a tight line/sparse and spread or if any units are being attacked from their flanks how quickly they rout

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Total War: Knights of the Old Republic

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Onmi posted:

Is there a particular way to use Riflemen? Right now I just line them up in front of the melee and let the rifles murder whoever gets close (they absolutely shred morale) and then charge the melee forward when the rifle lines aren't being as worth while. Of course I'm a bad player, always wind up getting flanked by Cav forces


Blue Boxes: Line Infantry (Sword/Axe/Shield)
Red Boxes: Gun Infantry (or cannon artillery)
Green Boxes: Crossbow infantry (or mortar/catapult artillery)
Pink Boxes: Spear/Halberd infantry (no shield)

This is a basic defensive setup that is devastating against frontal charges. The swords in front will tar pit multiple units each while your gunners wreck havok on them from behind the shield wall. The most important thing is to make the gaps in your front line a bit too small for a full health enemy melee unit can get through without getting tagged by your infantry on one side. Any melee units more than required to hold a line in front of your gunners should be held in reserve behind your forces where they wont take missile fire and can react to flankers

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Curse of Undeath is a must-have in any army, it isn't that great on necromancers who are basically only casting nehek, but on a hero like Manfredd with some of the best magic in the game who can cast over a dozen spells in a battle all that extra healing you poo poo out basically doubles the staying power of your undead armies

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

Kaza42 posted:

Yeah, these were my first real multiplayer matches and it was a lot of fun. I played the vampires in the second match and the dwarfs in the last one. As the dwarfs, I was terrified of the greater bretonnian mobility, which is why I tried to keep in a block formation as I inched forward. In the end, it wasn't enough to counter the cavalry's ability to cycle charge but it was really tense for a while. I think I may have been able to win the vamp vs dwarf match if I had just been more careful with Mannfred at the end there, but 420gankmid played really well and I had no problems admitting defeat. My most embarrassing match was definitely my loss as Empire though, I completely failed to redeploy once I saw that his initial position completely countered mine. No idea what I was thinking there, but I'll just be sure to do better next time!

Rewatching that Brettonia vs Dwarfs match it looked a lot closer than it felt when I was playing, didn't realize how quickly my infantry evaporated at the end there (probably in part to my own trebuchets)

I think if you had brought quarrellers instead of thunderers and had you taken a strong line at the crest of the hill instead of a box at the top you could have beaten me pretty soundly

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

Kaza42 posted:

I was expecting more heavy cavalry than the light infantry you ended up pinning me with, hence taking thunderers to pierce their armor. I probably should have trusted the sturdy dwarfs to stand up to the charges more

I thought for sure it was going to be a loss vs Dwarves because the halberds are basically the only armor piercing troops for Brettonia so I just piled in as many as I thought I could put to use

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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drat Dirty Ape posted:

Are you calling Thorgrim a liar? Sounds like a grudgin' to me.

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Timboslice posted:

Just getting into this as my first total war game. How do I know when I should be getting the growth building upgrades vs income? Do I just want to stack Growth buildings unless I plan on going into debt then demolish them later?

Depends, your primary settlement should have at least 2 growth buildings because it takes so much growth to upgrade to the level 5 cities but that is absolutely something you want done asap. If you're conquering new territories you should fill them out with a economy buildings, at least 1 growth building and public order building.

Choosing one province to be your military recruiting station (usually your starting zone) and ignoring military buildings in other provinces is fine for the early parts of your game, its only when you have provinces more than 3-4 turns march away from home that you really need new places to recruit armies from

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Timboslice posted:

Great, thanks for that!

I also don't really know how 'fast' I should be playing, It feels like some turns I just look at my base, check for updates upgrades and make a turn without really doing anything. Should I always be out moving an army? Am i aiming to win by turn 100?

Dont worry about accomplishing objectives quickly. Try to get as much done as possible in the first 15 turns (usually unifying your starter province and whatever the easiest target of opportunity is) and then from there just focus on having an Expand and Re-consolidate cycle


Basically, aggressively expand into new territory with overwhelming force, and then park a strong army in the region while you build enough that the settlement is self sufficient in economy, public order, and defense (this is done either politically by conquering up until a safe natural border or ally; by building walls on vulnerable settlements, or by having a cheapo army stack within marching distance that can team up with local garrisons to defend your land)


Also in general early game you should try to expand south or away from chaos. Empire can get a lot of money going into Brettonia, Dwarves and Greenskins want to consolidate hold on the badlands and prep for the turn ~80-100 southern coastal invasion, and VC can snake down into Border Prince territory or towards Altdorf

420 Gank Mid fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jul 13, 2016

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Mukip posted:

What are heroes good for killing in multiplayer? I considered sending my griffon general after some demigryph knights but I'm not sure if it's a good idea.

That's almost certainly a terrible idea because most people take Demigryphs with halberds and they have huge damage bonus against large (anything as big or bigger than a man on a horse)

Empire:
Empire Captain: All around great melee expert. On foot he will hold your melee line with his morale aura and he has enough damage to murder even the heaviest armored infantry. Has the typical empire melee expert abilities and can hold his own against most enemy melee experts. Standard and Armored mount options are underwhelming, what you gain in speed or armor you lose in the ability to stand and fight in the line where he is best. The Pegasus mount on the other hand gives you not only the mobility to get to wherever you can wreck the most havok, but also in the air you can take on and outright slaughter other flying non-melee heroes or team up your captain with Franz and kill the enemy general handily

Warrior Priest: Similar niche to the foot-Captain, your warrior priest encourages your troops to keep going and has decent combat stats himself but is isn't really a combat expert and of the spells you get the only really useful one is the damage negation AOE buff which is nice but makes the WP a less good Runemaster

Witch Hunter: Ranged Assassination Expert. His main ability "Accuse!" got nerfed recently but it is still a good chunk of damage out of the health of any single target model with less than 4000 health. He has a gun with significantly shorter range than the handgunners but if he gets into a good spot can really pound down even the heaviest armored lords and heroes with his massive armor piercing damage. No mount options but he does get an ability to move fast and disengage easier. While he isnt exactly fragile, he'll get merc'd if any significant force of dudes or a melee expert gets in his grill

Bright Wizard: Possibly the all-around 'best' caster for the Empire, it is almost always worth it to get his pegasus mount. Fireball is in my experience the most powerful magic missile ability. Cheap, low cooldown, high damage, and when you get him in the air it's deadly accurate to boot. His offensive buff gives a unit bonus fire damage to their attacks, allowing them to shred through armor, regeneration, or physical resistance (ghosts!). The bombardment spell is very weak, the vortexes are as likely to destroy your own troops as the enemy as they veer wildly off course but dont do that much. 1-3 overcast fireballs will kill any lord or hero if they connect and can be shot from massive range so just do that

Light Wizard: Light is Right. I said Bright Wizards were the best, but these guys are really freaking good too. Against the undead they give a significant map-wide leadership penalty. Their magic missile is almost as good if not exactly as good as the Bright Wizard's fireball so you will also almost always want these guys in the air. The Net spell just crushes cavalry who think they are getting a free charge off into your gunline, hole them there and get 2 full free volleys into them. Also even not overcast its an AoE spell so if the enemy isnt spreading out their charge you can stop an army dead cold in its tracks. He also has a Vortex Spell (does no or little damage but disrupts enemy lines and prevents units from attacking for awhile) and a few buffs (+armor to ally)(make unit unbreakable) but both are very short duration and ultra-niche use compared to the all around goodness of chucking around more light-fireballs

Celestial Wizard: No magic missile 0/10 never used

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Mans posted:

17 euros for a new faction and an entire mini-campaign is right on par with all Rome and Attila mini campaign DLCs and seems reasonable?

How much should an entire new campaign be? 2 euros?

CA said it themselves, adding in the cool units like the Jabberslythe and other huge monsters costs as much alone as entire DLC packs for previous games have in the past. Wouldn't they be better off saving up the big$$ factions for the later larger expansions and keep the game fresh by revamping existing neglected factions? For the money they spent making beastmen they could have given Brettonnia+Friends, Kislev, or a few interesting Empire minors fully fleshed out campaign starts, with unique lords, quests, events, diverse rosters, and new magic lores all while using 90% scavenged art assets like they did in Age of Charlemagne

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Mans posted:

they will most likely release constant faction and extra unit DLCs, my main questions is why are people against a 15 euro mini campaign when CA showed they are really good at making them (let's ignore wrath of sparta because that DLC was cealrly for the hoplite enthusiasts).

For me it's less the price point and more than it just feels rushed. I love all the factions at release and they all have a lot of love put into how they play on the campaign and battle map scale (Chaos maybe the least but still head and shoulders above usual TW diversity overall) and unlike other TW games it feels like they actually worked on this game for years until it was polished and fleshed out way more than any other title at it's launch. And with all the things that were left on the cutting room floor I'm not at all optimistic about this dlc but I am hoping for the best. For the first time in years Creative Assembly actually substantially raised the bar for themselves and it would be sad to see them underperform now

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

I think a lot of people are underestimating how much work there is in the current Beastman roster. In terms of unit models they're adding Ungors, Gors, Bestigors, Centigors, Minotaurs, Cygors and Razorgors. Compare to the Empire which has Humans, Horses, Demigryphs, Pegasi and Griffins + Machines or Dwarfs who are Dwarfs + Machines.

I'm disappointed at the missing Beastman units but considering that they would each require a new model (Tuskgor, Harpy, Ghorgon, Jabberslythe) each it's not surprising they had to leave some out. I just hope they make it in later installments.

That's exactly the problem. Doing beastmen any amount of justice is a huge undertaking and I don't like that CA has put it on the shoulders of their B-team

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Arcturas posted:

How should I be building Manfred von Carstein? I went through the spells to get Fate of Bjuna, because that seems awesome. I mostly have him running around the back line using spirit leech and bjuna on their big dudes. I've also unlocked the +1 vampire skill, but now that I have both of those two things done, I"m not sure if I should be going for choppy-chop or leadership abilities. (I tagged Nehek because it looked awfully good, too.)

Manfred is a combat monster, filling out his battle path is very powerful early and late game. Spells are worth investing into to get the protection against miscasting so you can always spam overcasted nehek in combat and keep your armies fresh

I'm partial to armor, charge bonus, and weapon damage, but the other skills are good too

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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The Lone Badger posted:

Manfred doesn't need overcast protection when casting Nehek, he can just take the damage and heal it.
Manny should stay in melee where possible, especially if he has his sword that gives him +winds when fighting.

You dont always cast it on yourself though, or at least you dont if you have overcast protection

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Gonkish posted:

I still don't think that I "get" how to play as Chaos. I'm roaming around with this stack of poo poo units, everyone outnumbers me, literally every loving empire province and most of the dwarves have armies hovering around the area who absolutely refuse to engage me but will happily sack any subjugated vassals, etc. I just can't get going. Hell, at one point I tried to create a second stack and Kislev, the dwarves, the Empire, and seemingly the entire world knew exactly where Archaon and friends were and were happily marching doomstacks right up into the northernmost Chaos wastes because SUDDENLY they want to have a fight. It's just a loving slog and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to get ahead. I don't even know where to start. Is there a decent guide or anything ANYWHERE? I've been googling like crazy and the only things that come up are lovely PR blurbs.

Making two stacks early on is pretty important because you want to get them growing as fast as possible.

Pick a reliable fighter like Kholek or Sigvald and lean on them in tactical battles, they are worth way more than autoresolve gives them credit for as soon as they get a handful of levels they can beat any enemy army with just chaff infantry behind them

Use the strong units your main lord started with in your new second stack to support your weaker lord/horde until they grow and can recruit their own units.

Try to to access your more powerful troop options asap; chosen and chaos knights are very good at dealing with the lovely infantry stacks AI loves to build

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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drat Dirty Ape posted:

Ahh, well they pretty much hate me for wiping them out so they won't accept being my vassal. Not sure how this works out for other VC players.

It worked for me while they still had -200 opinion of me

Zhufbar had Zhufbar and Mount Gunbad left, I sacked Zhufbar half a dozen times and the Broken Spears captures Gunbad and they accepted.

Zhufbar was also at war with Greenskins, Karak Kadran, and Averland so that might factor into it

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

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Fangz posted:

quote:

Is there a mod that doesn't let the computer ignore zones of control on the campaign map? I have an army standing next to an allied town, literally cannot be any closer to it. The computer runs in with one army and sieges the town, and then attacks my army with their second army, and thus I'm forced to fight 2 AI armies while the allied army and its town garrison are all under siege.

It's loving ridiculous that they can just enter my zone of control and then somehow magically keep the allied army from rallying to fight with me.
You can always enter a zone of control to perform a hostile action, and garrisons under siege can't reinforce outside battles except by sallying out.

How exactly should it work? Should two armies next to each other mean that neither can be attacked?

There are a lot of ways that this should work that make more sense and aren't as frustrating as is.

1. The Zone of Control of the army outside the settlement forces enemy armies to attack that outside army first, which will be reinforced by the garrison

2. The enemy army can still circumvent the outside-the-settlement army but when the 2nd enemy army comes to attack the OTS army, it is a 1v1 battle as the enemy sieging the province is occupied and can't reinforce in the battle vs the OTS

3. All armies participate in the battle


As is, the OTS army is abandoned and easily run down helplessly and although both the AI and the player can do this it's wildly frustrating when it happens to you, and is gamey and unintuitive when you do it

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

unwantedplatypus posted:

God forbid strategic decisions have consequences.

Its just a noob trap, anyone who has had this happen knows that you just dont keep stacks inside settlements(unless you really need the replenishment or public order I guess) when enemy armies are nearby.

Instead you put them just inside the reinforce radius of the city and you get the #3 outcome I posted where all armies fight (except for the non-army garrison force itself)

Its not really a 'strategic decision' if there is a correct way and an incorrect way

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Dec 26, 2008

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Fangz posted:

I don't really see why this is a big issue here. In the original scenario... so what? You click retreat on the attacked army, then on your turn you send your guys back, sally out the defenders and have the 3 vs 2 battle you wanted, assuming that a single one of their stacks can't take out your outside-town stack themselves.

If you had two armies outside a town, then they can send a stack to cut off your garrison army and then fight you in a 2v2 battle, so I don't think that's always the better solution. If they have Lightning Strike you'd also be utterly hosed.

Really the best solution in this situation is to put both armies in ambush stance outside the town you are defending. That stack comes in to siege? Bam, 3v1 battle that they can't retreat from. The AI actually pulled this off against me a couple of times and that was pretty impressive.

It's not a big issue because its an edge case but what can happen is the aggressor will send one stack to block the garrison and garrisonned army in the settlement, and then their second stack will attack the army trapped outside the city in a 2v1 battle.

Even though all those units are right next to each other within the space of each other's zone of control, the aggressor will get to use both of their armies against 1 of the 3 armies of the defender.

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Dec 26, 2008

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Has anyone played a defensive siege battle in campaign mode yet? The AI never attacks a garrison with more than ~10 units in it and just sits outside letting attrition do all the work until my cleanup squads arrive and fight a field battle outside the settlement

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Dec 26, 2008

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Tiler Kiwi posted:

I've had a few, and yeah the AI is less keen on suicide by siege than it used to be. as a dwarf player you tend to have grimgor show up to die early on at your capital, and during my first vampire campaign I had a bunch of chaos stacks overrun a level 3 settlement with a full stack and level 2 garrison and even though I lost the AI armies were really badly crippled trying to take the place.

its one of those issues that's kind of tricky, since on one hand, its a smart play by the AI to not attack a force behind a wall when there's a good chance they'd eat poo poo for it, but otoh it results in them behaving overly cautious sometimes and really, slaughtering AI forces at your walls was generally fun no matter how stupid the AI was for doing that.

that'd actually be a fun mini campaign. you only control a single city, and you have to hold out as long as you can against waves of forces that always assault on the turn they besiege you.

It would be nice if attacking an army besieging a walled settlement caused a siege battle anyways, but with the way the siege maps are (towers having range to the edge of the map in most cases) this would be way too heavily in the player's favor.

Overall I like the new map scope as the attacker, forcing you to rush for the walls instead of sitting back until your artillery runs out of ammo with all your units safely out of reach. But there are some things I miss about the way older games did sieges. It feels like sallying out to defend outside the walls isnt really a thing that happens anymore either.

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Dec 26, 2008

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WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:

Mannfred is a punk rear end bitch. He was at strength rank 1 and ran a full stack against a level 2 garrison in Grunberg. He lost the auto resolve and I had like 80% remaining.

Then he was at strength rank 20. I don't even know what dumb mathematics were used but VCs are always inexplicably high af in the rankings and also the weakest dudes by far. Once I disabled the aggressive agents mod, they went from most annoying to the cutest "evil" faction.


Siege walls own bones, but sallying out is a really really good tactic generally. If the unit count is in your enemy's favor a little bit, you can put a unit or two of your hardiest troops in front of your towers and put your ranged units on the walls behind them and have them fight to the death. They'll take out a sizable chunk of dudes with them. Mix in cavalry tactics and you're good to go.

The thing is, the towers in siege battles are just SO good that the whole "rush the walls" tactic is crucial, but when defending you can really gently caress with the AI into letting the towers do all the heavy lifting for you.

Undead AI will spam skeletons bats and zombies and thus will have 3-4 stacks filled with garbage but outnumber the next largest military 5 to 1 until it is wiped out as autoresolve does not value a composition without ranged, cavalry, or monstrous infantry

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Dec 26, 2008

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IanTheM posted:

I beat the game on normal with Orks, and now I'm trying to beat it on hard with Chaos. Holy crap is starting a second horde difficult, the fact you have to keep them apart is annoying, but then getting your weak army chased around by enemies you've made and such. My first run I took way too long, and had to fight the Tzeench Deamon with an underprepared army, and spent many turns running away until I managed to beat him, by which time I was too deep into imperial territory and got killed by another army the same turn. This second time started out better, but I went too deep into Middenland, while two of their stacks chased me around, but I couldn't get a good enough second horde going. Karl Franz killed me right after I defeated Middenland's armies.

Any advice on how to run a Chaos campaign? How long should I spend abusing the Varg? Should I fight Skaelig?

Varg and Skaelig are just pit stops to sack and move on from. You're much better off getting past Kislev and into the Empire minors with only a handful of settlements each. Leave factions with "Imperial Distrust" intact and try to rush into the Reikland and smother Karl Franz in his crib

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Dec 26, 2008

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Krazyface posted:

Does anyone know (or remember from previous games) what will happen to my current campaign when the beastmen get ported in? Will it just continue without them or will it get broken?

Beastmen are hordes with no settlements or any other major changes to the campaign map, I'd bet previous saves will just continue status quo with no beastmen ever having spawned in the world. That or you will need to disable the DLC to continue playing older saves.

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