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Huzanko posted:I shouldn't be but I'm surprised more leftists don't see that leftist socialist programs and reforms are held back by bigotry, racism, fear of the other, etc. You can't get socialist reforms without addressing systemic racism; it's just not possible. If you can't get cops to stop shooting people for no reason; you're very far from any kind of socialist utopia. Yep, even if you accept the premise that racism is a construction to divide and conquer, that should making working on stamping it out a prerequisite, rather than coming up with some bullshit about how people's actual lives are a real distraction from The Cause™ and letting the division happen.
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Nov 8, 2016 06:24
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I wish I could say something eloquent to express my sympathies and wishes that things turn out right for you all but all I've got are these.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:55
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So is this becoming the red text thread courtesy of one man on a crusade to prove everyone right about white fragility?
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Nov 9, 2016 19:09
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OwlFancier posted:Don's secretly been spending all his offtime browsing SA. Wonder if saying the dude's the sort that give white people a reputation for whinging about how the boot on other people's neck fits them poorly is worth a tenner.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:22
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Lightning Knight posted:I sent exmarx a message on slack and I posted in a QCS thread but I don't have PMs. I was going to buy them after the election but that's now my don't get banned money. Same name on steam skype and discord and no problems being a slush fund for good posters, just in case.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:43
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Koalas March posted:anything that promotes, establishes and entrenches white supremacy is white supremacy. My mental image is a bucket of crabs where the rules make it a whole hell of a lot easier and safer to pull down on or step on black people. That about right?
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Nov 9, 2016 21:41
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negromancer posted:That's because the alt-right is loving stupid and think Africa is all mud huts and AIDS. Also the alt-right is loving stupid and doesn't think it's brain drain.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:51
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biracial bear for uncut posted:For some reason I was thinking that Racist Tree short story would be relevant, but it looks like the only way social progress will actually be made is if the children chop the loving tree down and use it to build something better. That's the one that the people whinging about DnD were incredibly angry about. I mean how dare you ostracize people just for having lovely harmful beliefs?
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Nov 9, 2016 23:26
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OwlFancier posted:You got trump because Obama did not deliver for the people who voted Trump today, and because Clinton didn't show any sign of wanting to. Problem is those people can and will continue to cheerfully gently caress themselves just because they know people of color are going to get it worse.
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Nov 10, 2016 01:38
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Also not kidding I'll paypal folks a fiver so it costs some racist a tenner.
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Nov 10, 2016 01:44
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Gaunab posted:You guys should defend yourselves in GBS. Or, and this is a really compelling notion, we could not venture into a cesspit.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:10
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Bishounen Bonanza posted:What does living as your authentic black self mean, and how does it differ from simply living as a human being? There's an implicit comparison being made to the black self that is permissible in a white society. It struck me as obvious.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:53
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WampaLord posted:Well, GBS and /pol have invaded D&D. It didn't just happen, it was a process spanning three or more centuries, and it's proof that the parable of the racist tree only works if you can hold a lid on it for a long drat time.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:00
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I'm going to say it again, nothing happened with white people, no sudden comforting change that absolves us from confronting the fact that MLK is still right about the white moderate who may hold some decent views but when the chips are down would rather hear of no evil or see no evil happen than stop evil from being done.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:49
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negromancer posted:Just...don't. Shouldn't we weight it by expected years left in the electorate?
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Nov 10, 2016 19:15
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Baronjutter posted:Don't forget that gun ownership and using a gun for "self defense" are really only for white men. Women using guns on their domestic abusers, and black people using guns on white people for any reason is going to be actually investigated and the bar for "self defense" claims set a few thousand meters above that for a white guy in the same situation. Black men open carrying is what got gun control in California. So carry, know the rules and get whitey to disarm themselves  (actual results may vary).
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Nov 10, 2016 21:39
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negromancer posted:India is horrifically racist against black people. I was unaware of these?
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Nov 10, 2016 22:28
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negromancer posted:Well, at least no one can question your allyship now. That takes some intestinal fortitude right there. After seeing some of the poo poo in this thread, I was going to say that until they've actually sacrificed for it, you can't be sure if a white person is an ally or just a coalition member who's only there till the goal. I hope to live up to that and you're an inspiration.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:33
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:My big fear is dealing with coworkers. There's at least one I know I'm going to have to see at our team lunch today who I know voted straight republican. It's nice to be principled, but also as a trans woman I'd like to not lose my very good job because I hurt the racist's feelings. It's a lovely situation to be in. The way companies and modern career poo poo is structured is daunting as hell to look down the barrel of, and that's with a fat bunch of privilege to insulate me. The big problem for me is that I'm stuck in a county that's redder than Rudolph's nose and basically everyone isn't giving good opportunities but just hints at a flat out 100% untrue idea of the world and history and more than anything I'm not prepared to give a good answer to that that might do something other than drive them into their little bizarro world hugbox, and I'm not prepared to stake my job on that. Does anyone have more resources that cover stuff like the case for reparations did? I hate to ask people to do my work for me but I don't really know where to start other than asking people who know more, and at least then I can push back on the delusional Lincoln fixed America's race problems forever horseshit. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 19:41
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Who What Now posted:I have no doubt. I've always "known" that any hardship I face is at least five times worse for PoC, but seeing first hand accounts coming from people in a community I'm part of is doing a lot to drive that home for me. I'd started getting an inkling when I ran into serious specific advice for hiring (tech) saying pretty outright that you need to actively work to counter the way that you've in all likeliness stacked the deck without even noticing. An example of this is: https://blog.codinghorror.com/we-hire-the-best-just-like-everyone-else/ (tl;dr money quote is "Perhaps worst of all, if the interview process is predicated on zero doubt, total confidence … maybe this candidate doesn't feel right because they don't look like you, dress like you, think like you, speak like you, or come from a similar background as you? Are you accidentally maximizing for hidden bias?") This thread was really good at giving me an idea of just how big the iceberg actually is.
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Nov 12, 2016 23:54
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Geostomp posted:All of the above. Alt-righters are usually young white men who expected the world to bow before them, and are stunned this was not the case. They deal with their feelings of inadequacy joining echo chambers that blame it all on everybody else. Women, minorities, LGBT people, "race traitors", somebody else is always there to explain why they aren't taking their "rightful" place. Latching onto white supremacy and often outright Nazism to boost protect their fragile egos and fears. Being angry and hateful is empowering and energizing in a twisted way, so they go for that instead of having to face the introspection that risks destroying their idea of self worth. Saying cluck like a rooster is the perfect way for them to express rage that their greatest achievement, being born white, doesn't actually promise them anything and shout that the world isn't conforming to their expectations. If they'd done one goddamn thing in their lives to be proud of...
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Nov 13, 2016 04:00
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PantherWill posted:Will that pickup be rolling coal the whole time for the full douche? Dixie horn too.
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Nov 13, 2016 04:49
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Morby posted:Jill Stein gives tacit approval to 9/11 Truthers, anti-vaxxers, and a whole host of anti-science rhetoric. And she does all of this while making millions of dollars investing in oil, coal, and other industries she rails against. And yet Hillary is the shill. You should probably do the "ask for explanation until they say something that even they can't deny is racist." If they're going to base their identity on poo poo like that, they deserve to get their self-image shattered. Also holy gently caress Bannon's going to be chief of staff. What the gently caress. Gonna have to throw that one on top of a bridge I'm burning.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:28
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It's probably a good idea to set the wheels in motion for actually pinning the bullshit Trump does on Trump, considering how disingenuous the Republican propaganda machine is.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:30
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BrandorKP posted:This type of thing is what led to me getting screened. They were doing phonics and I had already been reading for years at that point. I figured out the phonics work sheets weren't ever graded. So off to the Atari in the class room to play burger time during phonics work sheets. This is something teachers are supposed to be trained to identify. Here's the problem, three standard deviations from the mean. Gifted / Talented kids are rare, ADHD isn't. So many / most gifted kids have this experience because most of the time the kid in question actually is just ADHD. My experience was way different from the black people in the thread, and was a hell of a lot more respectful of my ability and my parents being people with valid input. It was much more along the lines of "you might want to get little x tested". And I actually do have serious attention issues. There seems to be a lot more judgement of non-conformity and non-compliance in a negative light in any of their accounts.
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Nov 16, 2016 20:09
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negromancer posted:The thing is, I honestly don't believe a lot of children have ADHD most of the time. I just think they've figured out that it's bullshit and they already know what is being taught, and it doesn't hold their attention. If I was in an art history class right now, you'd think I'd have attention issues, but the simpler answer is that I just don't give a gently caress about the topic. I think a lot of kids don't give a gently caress about certain things, and honestly once they reach a certain baseline, we should funnel kids into where their natural talents and interests are. I love computers and programming and I still can't and couldn't see things through without a lot of work (more often a deadline and a fuckload of stress hormones) or medication and still serious effort. And not difficult poo poo, if it's actually challenging I can't keep my mind on track for more than five minutes if I'm lucky. It was the same deal back in school, I tried doing homework in class, and I just couldn't. I don't think all of it is conditioning. It's probably overprescribed as hell but it is an actual thing for some people, although there's a lot of possible causes for the behaviors that show signs of it, and that's fertile ground for racial bias.
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Nov 16, 2016 20:33
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Art is good and important. Not least it shapes the majority's understanding of minorities. It's one of the most powerful tools we have to combat oppression. And it's one of the mechanisms by which society reinforces its beliefs if not countered.
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Nov 16, 2016 20:44
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It's like how history isn't great at the start but once you've got some idea of the basics for context you can draw connections to it and the trends and processes start getting brought up and making it a lot more interesting, isn't it?
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Nov 16, 2016 23:46
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Fluffdaddy posted:Jesus loving Christ white people are real mad. This thread is like a shrine to white fragility where the prayer candles are red titles, it's amazing.
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Nov 24, 2016 03:41
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BigRed0427 posted:Hell, isn't this what happened int he 60-70s with the BLack Panthers? It's how we got Ronnie Regan, patron saint of gun control in California.
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Nov 25, 2016 04:41
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there wolf posted:White moderates are the right without the spite. It's why they sympathize so much with those poor rural people trapped in their racism and bigotry. "There but for the grace of a better education and social group, go I" They don't have the deep-seated hatred to drive them away from generally wanting equal treatment for everyone, but they're still just as selfish and afraid of change. So they become a critical mass of dead weight on progressivism because it's not like they want to hurt black people/gays/immigrants like the right does, but they don't want to see the world change in any substantial and unpredictable ways like those activist on the left either. Honestly from dealing with white moderates I think it's because they don't want to acknowledge that there's problems because then that might be something they're complicit in, so it's easier if things are fine and those horrid people being unruly is some sort of overreaction. A lot of the time they treat frank discussion that there's still issues as an accusation that they're complicit in racism and that they didn't earn what they have and get all defensive against the actual facts, and when people protesting aren't perfectly behaved they bust out the hand wringing.
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Nov 28, 2016 03:26
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I'm quite fond of how Brevik got reduced to a whinging little baby because he wasn't getting the video games he wanted. Comfortable, locked away and reduced to being utterly ridiculous is a good outcome in my book and works with a system that won't gently caress people who can be redeemed or aren't even bad in the first place.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:41
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And of course racial bias helps otherize the prisoners so that a retributive style of "justice" is preferred...
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Nov 29, 2016 04:11
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Darth Walrus posted:Well, IIRC, the Roman system wasn't so heavily rooted in race (Romans could become slaves too), which made it much easier to escape - specific races were not perceived as subhuman 'natural slaves' to nearly the same extent. Could be wrong on that, though. Also freedom for slaves seemed to be a thing that actually happened once in a while.
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Nov 29, 2016 20:12
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Morby posted:Honestly, I was glad they included manslaughter as a potential charge in this case. Murder charges are clearly considered overreach when you look at situations like Gray, Garner, Bland, etc. Yeah, and hopefully successful convictions at all help normalize the idea of police being found guilty.
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Dec 3, 2016 19:41
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He put a gently caress of a lot more of his livelihood at risk than I ever have, and where he lives his vote doesn't count for more than he used it for, so I can't throw stones there. Now people who didn't use their vote for something the way he did or live in a state in question, gently caress em. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 01:27
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How does the experience of white people not believing PoC about their experiences and people without experience with mental health issues not believing people who've dealt with that sort of thing stack up? They seem superficially like they might be similar and might be useful in getting to some white people.
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Dec 9, 2016 21:57
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biracial bear for uncut posted:What if he thought there was nothing he could do about it? I get that impression as well. I think he tried, and I think that the problem is such that doing what he could left a ton of the problem unaddressed. I think he got caught in dealing with the denial white people are in about racism and he never could really get through that and trying to make some changes that would benefit black people. I get what you're talking about negromancer, I'm torn on whether it's a fault with him or whether it's a system where even in the oval office, if a black person wants to achieve goals for black people he's got to pick and choose his battles. I lean towards the latter because there's always enough power in white hands or working towards white goals that progress is only made when white people get shamed enough that supporting some aspect of white supremacy embarrasses them in front of other white people. Then they fix it and go back to their fondly held illusion that they live in a just society and they got their position because of talent, skill, or hard work. I think he did some really good work fighting against that illusion, and a lot of white people I know hate him for it. I'd be interested in whether you think that's a really white perspective on his presidency and there's major issues that I'm blind to.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:28
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Maluco Marinero posted:How much power does the president actually have to change things? I mean that seriously, yes they have the power to execute pretty serious things but usually all of those fit into part of the plan for the institution. Here in Australia the Prime Minister only serves at the mercy of their party, the party is able to (and recently has, once for both sides of our political spectrum) switch leaders mid term if they want to. I think we're still in for a while at least where progress is won by making it too uncomfortable for white people to present themselves to themselves and other white people as not A Racist. The house is hosed and really it'd take a good hold on all three branches. LeftistMuslimObama posted:This is is the really hard part to help people understand because it can be both true and also not the whole picture. I absolutely would not have my job if I didn't have a lot of talent and skill that I directed into hard work, but also none of that would have mattered if I did not pass white. It's very hard to get someone past the "are you saying I didn't earn what I have?" phase and I've only succeeded getting someone through that twice (both times by pulling up our internal "black at <company>" group and pointing out that every person [all 18 of them out of 10000 people] on it had names like "Amber Adams" and "James Smith" and so on). Yeah, you're right on there that it can be true and not the whole picture, I should have said "they got their position because of talent, skill, or hard work and that's it". What I wrote in that post and this feels like a phoneposting oversimplification of what I'm getting at about how one of the really key things about modern racism is that it's deniable to the very people who practice it. It's a whole lot of small things all pointing in the same direction, and none of them are big enough or blatant enough that the people doing them have to acknowledge them. And to keep that going and keep them from seeing themselves as A Racist, white people will do all sorts of nasty twisting of the truth and even just be really really racist. I think the bullshit around cop shootings is one good example, to avoid acknowledging that policing is racist as gently caress, they'll go out of their way and brainstorm all sorts of justifications and stereotype the hell out of black people so they can decide that there was some reason why that person got shot that wasn't a racist system. I'm hopeful that some of the injustices that have gotten exposed get to the point where white folks can't justify them to themselves so we get some progress out of the bargain, but that's me hoping for the best.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:17
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Koalas March posted:yeah thats basically whats been going on with the avatars. we've talked about this in the misogynoir thread too. Some racists (that we probably ran out of here) are all up in their feelings. It's kind of funny because you can tell they don't really understand what people are talking about so they come off tone-deaf. They're hateful, but they aren't good at it. biracial bear for uncut posted:Yeah, most of the time when a white person says "all white people are terrible" it's a meaningless powerless complaint because the specific white individual that says it is living in a meaningless, powerless position in life. I think there's an an argument to be made for white supremacy valuing whiteness more than white people and white people having much more ability to keep their head down and do fine than to stick their head up and do something, but unless I am flat out told such, I don't think this is the time or place. TB's right in my estimation, and I deleted a longer post earlier because of it. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 19:11
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