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 WHAT IS THE AGE OF SIGMAR? Age of Sigmar is a game of fantasy miniature battles set within the sprawling Mortal Realms where the myriad armies of immortal gods make endless war upon each other for control of vast dimensional planes. The game is a successor to Warhammer Fantasy Battles, but mechanically has more in common with Warhammer 40k and lore-wise abandons the Old World of Fantasy Battles for something like the multi-verse of Michael Moorcock's Corum novels. The rules represent a streamlining of - but not a significant departure from - common Games Workshop mechanics. You will be rolling buckets of dice, rolling to-hit, to-wound, and to-save, but these mechanics have been adjusted to play more quickly. For example, a unit might hit on a 3+ and they will always hit any target on a 3+ unless otherwise buffed or debuffed. This differs from Warhammer 40k where you have to compare the attacker to the defender to determine the to-hit value. Overall the game plays much faster than 40k and Warhammer fantasy. In a truly epic cock-up the launch of the game alienated the faithful Warhammer Fantasy communities, but over the past year Games Workshop has worked to transform Age of Sigmar into a fun and competitive game worth your time and attention. WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS LORE?  tldr: The good guy gods fail to defend their realms from chaos, chaos takes over, lots of people die. Thousands of years later sigmar decides he's had enough, forges an army, and counterattacks. Early success leads to a new alliance between several gods and the war for the realms expands. long version:  Age of Sigmar is set within eight mortal realms - infinite dimensional planes wherein gods, monsters, and mortal men dwell. Each of the mortal realms represents a different fundamental, elemental force within the Warhammer world: Azyr (Celestial), Aqshy (Fire), Shyish (Death), Ghyran (Life), Hysh (Light), Ghur (Beasts), Chamon (Metal), Ulgu (Shadow). The realms are linked by various Realm Gates which provide a means to travel between them. They are also linked to the Chaos Realms, each ruled by one of the Chaos Gods. The Chaos Gods are obsessed with conquering the mortal realms in order to absorb them, increasing their individual power. In the time before time, men dwelt upon a material sphere that touched each of these realms but it was destroyed by invaders from the realms of Chaos. The destruction of that world marked the beginning of the Age of Myth, followed by the Age of Chaos, and ending in the current Age of Sigmar. This is the grand write-off of the Warhammer fantasy lore. The previous game system relegated to foot-note status. Age of Myth - For thousands of years the human god Sigmar ran around the mortal realms exploring, forging alliances, teaching the various mortal races technology and civilization, and generally trying to be an all around good guy. Heroic deeds were done. Sigmar manages to convince the gods of the mortal realms to form a Grand Alliance whose purpose was to defend the realms from invasion by the chaos gods. Ultimately the Grand Alliance falls apart from infighting and manipulation by the chaos gods. Unable to defend their realms, the mortal gods were divided and overcome. Age of Chaos - With the Grand Alliance in ruins, the chaos gods invade the mortal realms. Sigmar flees to the realm of Azyr and seals the realm gates that lead there. With Sigmar in hiding, the remaining gods can do little to defend their realms and chaos gradually consolidates. Mortal societies are destroyed or converted to chaos. Some races, such as the wood elves, are completely annihilated. The gods hide. Everyone despairs. The servants of the chaos gods begin rituals that will absorb the mortal realms into the chaos realms. Age of Sigmar - On the edge of a total chaos victory, Sigmar emerges from Azyr to invade Aqshy and Ghyran. Surprise chaos bastards! He's been planning for this moment from the very beginning! So, it turns out that throughout the Age of Chaos, Sigmar had been collecting the souls of brave warriors who died opposing the chaos invasion. Using magical metal from the core of the Old World and these brave warrior souls, Sigmar forges the Stormcast Eternals. An army of immortal warriors who march out to push back the all-consuming tide of chaos. The Stormcast establish beachheads on several realms, securing realm gates and setting out with the goal of finding the other gods and reforming the Grand Alliance. That's the background in short. There have also been two campaigns that have moved the story forward. (More details later). During the Realmgate Wars, a very large four book campaign series, Sigmar establishes his beachheads and makes contact with several other races and gods. During the 2016 summer campaign, the new Grand Alliance of Order conquers the mortal realm of Ghyran. OKAY, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE RULES?  [video type=""]/jtnREvA.mp4[/video]  The core game rules are available for free here. The game is a streamlined version of the traditional GW system, with more straightforward combat. There are several other mechanics that are different from previous GW games.
Warscrolls - While the core rules seem straightforward, the game expands in complexity as units are added. Each unit has a Warscroll which describes the unit's weapons, stats, and special rules. Many of these special rules interact with other warscrolls to create complexity. You don't need to buy any rulebooks to get warscrolls. The Age of Sigmar app has every warscroll for free and a warscroll is also packaged with the miniature kits. Battleplans - A battleplan is GW's term for a narrative scenario. The campaign books consist of a series of lore / battleplan pairs that tell a story. The various army battle tomes also include battleplans that are tailored to show off that army's play style. When it was first released AoS had no point system or any real army structure. The rules allowed for things like infinite summoning of daemons, abusive use of terrain, beardy armies consisting only of special characters, etc. This was not so good for the reputation of the game or Games Workshop. This has also changed. The General's Handbook is a sourcebook that provides much needed structure to the game:
Battle Tomes are like Warhammer 40k's codexes or Fantasy's army books. The battle tome spends most of it's time on lore, but also includes three narrative battle plans for the army. The battle tome also includes warscrolls for every unit in the army. Usually the app's warscrolls are a better resource, since GW applies errata and adjustments to the electronic warscrolls. Battle tomes are less necessary in AoS than they are in 40k, but are still full of awesome artwork and lore. Campaign Books contain lore and battleplans that advance the AoS storyline. They also sometimes contain special rules for playing narrative games in the various realms. ARMY COMPOSITION  (An example warscroll. Notice the command ability which buffs Brayherd units.) This section will focus on building armies for competitive "Matched Play" games. Armies in AoS are categorized by faction and alliance. There are four alliances: Order, Chaos, Destruction, and Death. Each alliance contains a number of factions. For example, Order contains Stormcast Eternals and Fyreslayers, among others. Units are then categorized with a battlefield role. Those roles are leader, battleline, behemoth, artillery, and other. To build a matched play legal army you begin by selecting an alliance. You then take one hero and a number of battleline units from that alliance based on the point value of the game. Games <2000 points require 2 battleline units, <2500 points requires 3, and >=2500 points requires 4. There may also be limits on the number of leaders and behemoths that can be included at various point levels, for example, you cannot have more than 2 behemoths at 1000 points. Your choice of army general may change the battlefield role of certain units; for example taking a Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut as your general makes Mighty Skullcrushers (a heavy cav unit) count as battleline. Selecting your army from a single faction provides bonuses. It may unlock access to relic weapons, faction specific schools of magic, faction specific army bonuses, or better battleline units. It may also provide implicit access to better buffs or magical effects. Each unit has a series of keywords like "mortal khorne" and some buffs only affect units with particular target keywords. Finally, you may choose to organize parts of your army into a Battalion. Battalions are like Formations in 40k: a set of specific units that when taken together provide some additional bonus. Unlike 40k, Battalions in AoS cost points in addition to the cost of the units that compose the Battalion. So taking a Vanguard Wing costs 400 points min for the units that compose it and then an additional 100 points to pay for the Battalion itself. If you want to build a few armies and explore points values without buying the General's Handbook, you can use Warscroll Builder. Battlescribe also has a dataset for Age of Sigmar. Both of these tools are free (there is also a paid version of Battlescribe that gets rid of advertisements.)THE ARMIES First, a word of caution. While there are warscrolls for many of the old Warhammer Fantasy armies, several of these armies are now considered to be "Compendium Armies". That is, they are out of print and may no longer receive support from GW. The General's Handbook has a list of the compendium armies. While many compendium armies are expected to get official support in the future, some are known to have been squatted: Khemri and Bretonnia. For now, this OP will discuss only armies that have had official AoS releases from GW in the form of Battletomes or Start Collecting boxes. I will add armies, art, and details over this week. We wanted to open the thread before all the content was done. --ORDER-- Stormcast Eternals Sylvaneth Fyreslayers  The Fyreslayers are a dwarven ("duardin") faction of musclebound mercenary warriors. Riding giant Magmadroths into battle, the Fyreslayers will fight for anyone willing to pay for their services with gold or rumors of ur-gold. The ur-gold are shards of the Duardin god Grimmnir who had a bit of an unfortunate accident during the Age of Myth and ended up merged with the fire plane of Aqshy. Fyreslayers gain strength by hammering ur-gold runes into their bodies and hope to gather enough of the god to bring him back. Although they originate in the realm of Aqshy, the Fyreslayers are found throughout the mortal realms and are one of the few Order races to prosper during the Age of Chaos. Seraphon --CHAOS-- Khorne Bloodbound Daemons of Khorne Daemons of Nurgle Skaven Clan Pestilins Everchosen Legion of Azgorh  Chaos dwarves, centaur warriors, and fire elementals. An army only available from Forge World with an online rulebook you can find here. The Legion of Azgorh are a gunline army with cannons, rifle/pistol infantry, and heavy cavalry to protect the line. Fantastic looking models, including a beardy chaos dwarf lord on a charging winged bull. Matched play points values for the Legion can be found in this Forge World supplement. If you run into the Legion or collect them let us know how they play. This isn't an army you see on the field very often. --DESTRUCTION-- Ironjawz Bonesplitterz Beastclaw Raiders  Cursed by their insatiable appetites and pursued by a malevolent and endless Everwinter, the Beastclaw Raiders consist of migratory packs of ogors (the packs are called Alfrostuns) that can never find rest, lest they be destroyed. The lore here is pretty bad rear end, with a gigantic storm following each Alfrostun, freezing out any game or prey should they linger in one place too long. The army consists of a small model count of elite units that move fast, hit hard, and nearly everything can both melee and shoot. The army's large models are all monsters, meaning they are incredibly powerful early game but lose strength as they incur wounds. While many Ogors served in Sigmar's army in the Age of Myth, those of the Alfrostuns generally despise the Stormcast Eternals because they cannot be eaten. They also don't much like ghosts, skeletons, imaginary lizards, and anything else not composed of meat. Alfrostuns originate in the Realm of Beasts, but have spread out across the mortal realms looking for new hunting grounds. Wherever they go the Everwinter follows, creating strategic problems for both Chaos and Order who must dedicate resources to misdirecting the Ogors in order to keep the stormfront away from key fortresses, towns, or resources. --DEATH-- Flesh-Eater Courts Related Games Gorechosen Silver Tower GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Nov 19, 2016 21:30
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I would expect them to be shooting as well. For the steamhead, would be neat to have some form of steam tank like monster that isn't necessarily an animal/beast. As for future releases, I'd like to see a book for the Nurgle mortal plaguehosts, like the Khorne bloodbound.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:01
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It's real. I admit to fat fingering the title, but I do plan on populating the OP with more content over the week. Several people in the 40k thread have been playing Sigmar and wanted a separate location to discuss the game.
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Nov 20, 2016 01:16
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All of the groups I've played with measure from the base. I suppose I should put that in the OP, as it's a very common house rule. However, some units like the Prosecutors seem designed to be played as if they measure from the wings. Warhammer Community has an article up on how to play the Legion of Azgorh, which is a Forge World exclusive army of Chaos Dwarves. http://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/19/legion-of-azgorh-by-ben-curry/
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Nov 20, 2016 08:09
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The start collecting boxes aren't all legal for comp on their own, as you need 1 hero and 2 battle line units. The Stormcast start collecting box is 1 hero, 1 battle line, and 2 other units. It's 500 points , so it's about half what you would need to start playing 1000 point matched play games. The Sylvaneth start collecting box is 600 points and does have two battleline units, but one of them is understrength. Dryads come in units of 10 and it has 16 dryads. The Sylvaneth christmas battle force box is 1100 points and can be made legal out of the box if you build two units of tree-revanants. The christmas battle forces mix well with the start collecting boxes to create forces that are about 1500 points. So a 1500 point Sylvaneth army looks something like this. (There might be a cheap battalion to cover the remaining 60 points.) ++ Pitched Battle (1,500) (Grand Alliance: Order v23) (1440pts) ++ + Leader (100pts) + ········Branchwych (100pts) + Leader/Behemoth (280pts) + ········Drycha Hamadreth (280pts) + Behemoth (260pts) + ········Treelord (260pts) + Battleline (340pts) + ········Dryads (120pts) [10 Dryads (120pts)] ········Dryads (120pts) [10 Dryads (120pts)] ········Tree-Revenants (100pts) [5 Tree-Revenants (100pts)] + Other (460pts) + ········Kurnoth Hunters (180pts) [3 Kurnoth Hunters (180pts)] ········Kurnoth Hunters (180pts) [3 Kurnoth Hunters (180pts)] ········Spite-Revenants (100pts) [5 Spite-Revenants (100pts)] The Ironjawz Start Collecting + Battleforce box looks to be about the same point value and there is also probably a battalion to round out the remaining points. The Ironjawz start collecting box is a legal list out of the box. Here are the two combined: ++ Pitched Battle (1,500) (Grand Alliance: Destruction v12) (1420pts) ++ + Leader (340pts) + ········Orruk Megaboss (140pts) ········Orruk Warchanter (80pts) ········Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120pts) + Behemoth (180pts) + ········Aleguzzler Gargant (180pts) + Battleline (900pts) + ········Orruk Ardboys (180pts) [10 Ardboys (180pts)] ········Orruk Brutes (180pts) [5 Brutes (180pts)] ········Orruk Brutes (180pts) [5 Brutes (180pts)] ········Orruk Gore-Gruntas (180pts) [3 Gore-Gruntas (180pts)] ········Orruk Gore-Gruntas (180pts) [3 Gore-Gruntas (180pts)] GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Nov 20, 2016 |
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Nov 20, 2016 17:16
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tallkidwithglasses posted:They're a PDF that came out when the game launched that will likely never be updated again. Those PDFs also have the fun and excellent "make a sound/do an action" rules too. All of those joke rules have been removed and their war scrolls updated. I'll update the OP with info on army comp, but basically you can build however you want, or within one of the four major alliances, or faction specific. As you move from unfocused to faction specific you get access to more bonuses. Also each unit has a set of keywords like "mortal Khorne" and some buffs only take effect on units with the right keyword. So a bunch of bloodbound bonuses don't work on generic chaos warriors because they aren't mortal khorne. Your general choice can also unlock new units as troops, so taking a khorne lord on juggernaut let's you take juggernaut cav as troops. In AoS troops are called "battleline" units.
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Nov 20, 2016 18:39
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Avenging Dentist posted:You say this, but the following excerpt is from the Fyreslayers' "Auric Runeson on Magmadroth", which is an entirely new faction/model: Yeah I see that on Explosive Rage. That's honestly the first one I've seen on the current armies and I agree those kinds of rules are dumb. They damage the game's reputation and make it harder to convince people to try playing. I checked in the app to see if the text is current and it is. I'm not trying to defend GW's bad decisions. They made a bunch of bad decisions introducing this game. But it is fun to play and other people here also enjoy it. This thread is intended to provide a place for that group to talk about the game. GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Nov 20, 2016 |
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Nov 20, 2016 19:14
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Moola posted:so you just want a hugbox then? I don't think the thread should be a hugbox. Here are things that made me change my mind. - General's Handbook fixed a bunch of broken rules and added structure that made it hard to play with other people before. The game should have had this from the start, but the addition of it is what made me take another look. - I am way into the models. Even if this thread was just discussion of armies and releases, I would be into that. - Once I started playing, I enjoyed some rules I thought were bad before. I like the easier rolling to hit and wound, as it makes the game faster. I like the alternating combat in melee as there is a blood bowl like element of risk management. I like the interactions between units, with positioning being useful and important. A game like Wamachine has a bunch of this stuff to a much tighter degree. But I don't like playing Warmachine. It is way too execution based, too tightly balanced, and I suck at it. I like the higher variance afforded by GW games. I found that games of AoS were not thoughtless, although it can be played without thought. - I like the narrative scenarios. (Variations on the game like Kill the Beast where you have an army on one side against monsters on the other side.) - I like the lore. I've always loved planescape and corum and this has a similar vibe. I was never that much into the old world, so for me there's no sense of loss there. I'll think more about it. Maybe I can describe better what I enjoy or put together some battle reports.
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Nov 20, 2016 23:50
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Avenging Dentist posted:In that case, would you mind showing me where they host the rules from the General's Compendium? (That is the book that adds points, right?) We're talking about the post-release improvements GW has made (most importantly, adding points values and army composition rules) costing money, despite their initial push with the "free rules" thing. I've gone through every subsection on their site I can think of and there's nary a point value to be found for AoS. This feels like a forced argument. The books with points in 40k aren't free, but there are plenty of tools to get access to points and rules for that game. Same for AoS. If you download Battlescribe you can get the AoS module which has all of the points and unit structure for list building. Scroll Builder is a free website that has all of the points: http://www.scrollbuilder.com/ There are also points lists for all of Forge World's models online, including the complete Chaos Dwarf army: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/aos_warscrolls/warhammer-aos-legion-of-azgorh.pdf I'll put these resources in the OP.
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Nov 21, 2016 04:00
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Bombogenesis posted:In the event anyone itt actually plays this dumb game, can I get some input on the current status of ogres or if they have more than just the raiders faction? While moving I found my old ogres and I'm kinda bummed I only ever got a chance to play them once against an rear end in a top hat who just played several hundred ratmen to drown me in dice. Currently the only faction with a book are the raiders. There are warscrolls for all of the old world ogre units under the "Gutbusters" faction and I would expect a book for them at some point in the future.
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Nov 21, 2016 04:17
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TKIY posted:I have a fair number of people trying to make AoS work here, but it's such a mess rules-wise that everyone that wants to play has their own set of house rules which makes the whole process pointless. The shooting rules function fine, but conflict with people's expectations that "in a fantasy melee, you're too busy fighting to shoot your weapon" or maybe you can't see out. That is less a change to fix the rules and more to make it map to expectations of how things work in other games. Can you clarify how attaching heroes to units changes the way the game works? Regarding to hit-to wound, it seems like they could have combined these into a single check. There are some things like "if your to-hit is a 6, deal a mortal wound instead of rolling to-wound", but that could still be captured in a single roll. GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 05:48
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Moola posted:if your general is Wubadubdub then your Lichkings become linebacker (but only on a monday) Hehe. His sentence meant "if you pick the leader of [specific faction] than you can run [specific unit from that faction] as troops." Battleline == troops. Moola posted:That doesnt sound too complicated Yeah this is strange. A bunch of them have like 2 or 3 units in them. Some have gone away over time. I think this might be part of GW's sloppy transition, where they wanted all the old models to have a place in the new game, but only during the transition. I would expect a bunch of these factions to get merged or retired as they release books for the various alliances.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:18
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mango sentinel posted:TBF the current release schedule for explicitly supported AoS stuff also seems to be "not releasing anything for months and months." They did a leak of a steampunk duardin unit a bit ago, so I imagine they'll be next. The Skaven clans are Eshin, Moulder, Pestilins, Skyre, Verminus, and the Masterclan. All are still in the game, although only Pestilins has a new codex. Pestilins is disease. Skyre is gadgets / warmachines. Verminus are the brave rats that are an organized legion type thing. Moulder are mutants. Eshin are assassins. Masterclan is the group a bunch of overarching special characters come from. Not an army by itself. Over time, I'd expect all of these to get official support. GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 23:43
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Moola posted:how old is the first GH? Six months. Probably the right time to gather feedback if they plan to release another one in the summer.
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Nov 23, 2016 17:09
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Speaking of, here is my Slaughterbrute for my bloodbound: Just finished him recently and used the Bloodthirster video as a guide for most of it. Here is one of the gorechosen:  And for my bases, I'm using water FX mixed with blood for the blood god and various inks: 
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Nov 23, 2016 22:57
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Fuegan posted:Ha, unfortunately I think they used the same guy who named Murderfang armed with murderclaws. Doing any conversions on it? I have a warshrine for khorne waiting to be put together. The jugg idea is pretty cool.
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Nov 26, 2016 04:34
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In the lore the Stormcast Relictors have a link to the realm of death. It's suggested they might be former vampires or slaves to Nagash. Nagash shows up from time to time to try and convince them to return to his fold and when some Relictors die they don't make it back to Sigmar. They are probably still somewhat undead. I dig the idea of a Stormcast legion that is all undead. Their armor tarnishing as soon as they leave Azyr. The idea of making specific Stormcast armies that are linked to the various realms has a bunch of modeling potential. A fire themed Stormcast legion might look really neat, sort of like the Salamanders. For the white death legion you should mount a Templar on an undead dragon instead of a stardrake.
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Nov 29, 2016 08:18
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Here are some of my sigmarines. I went with the standard gold and blue, since I like the scheme and wanted to learn it. Here is a battle board I painted for AoS. I still have several pieces to go, but am currently trying to finish a 30k army before the end of the year. I've since done another drybrush on the board to unify the colors more. I also added water FX to the living water. 
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Nov 30, 2016 01:32
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SRM posted:You did a good job on those Sigmarines, but I still don't love that scheme. I really dig the brushwork though. I did a light green drybrushing all over and it did a good job tying it together. I don't have an image of that, though.
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Nov 30, 2016 19:10
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Horace-Noah posted:So guys, any idea where I could find some tomb kings stuff outside of eBay? I really love the models and want to try out this AOS game. Lizardmen are a fully supported faction and so will probably get more releases in the future, whereas they've said tomb kings have been shelved. I'd stick to Lizards, mostly to avoid the problem of it being hard to get the models and the risk that the tomb kings faction's rules might go away in a future edition.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:02
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There is a strong element of buying into the lore and design of a world when you get into a game. Mantic's world and lore is generic and hard to get engaged with. Is this generic design intentional, so the game can be played with many miniatures? If so, that's a product decision - I don't know if it's the right one, but I can respect it as a decision they've made. It might also be due to lack of skill. With Games Workshop, you might not like the lore or the models, but if you do they can really pull you in and fire your imagination. Mantic isn't able to achieve that at their current level of execution.
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Dec 1, 2016 06:24
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Unless mobile is messed up, the thread title still has Sigmar mis-capitalized. How do you change thread titles?
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Dec 4, 2016 16:52
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Aren't 'ardboyz the old models? They seem to fit alongside just fine. Is this where someone tries to derail the debate my mentioning how awesome the Maw-Krusha is?
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Dec 6, 2016 00:24
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mango sentinel posted:If I'm waiting for Christmas gift money to get a Battle force box how hosed am I? I expect you'll be okay, for AoS or 40k. The stores seem to have received a lot of boxes.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:31
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Fuegan posted:Adding some Daemons to my Bloodbound army and wanted to get a tester done for the Bloodletters to see how quickly I could get a decent job done. Pretty happy with the outcome for a couple of hours of work. That looks great! What formula did you use?
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Dec 13, 2016 20:13
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The 9 dice rule sounds fluffy and fun and I like that they are supporting each chaos god with a book, cultists, etc. I wonder if there will be a new Lord of Change kit? Having painted 9 of the winged Stormcast, they are very sturdy. Snapping the wings is more of a risk than damaging the oath papers. The papers hold the miniatures up well and bend slightly to resist breaking. Best to paint them as a sub assembly. The real downside of wide-winged models is getting them in base contact with anything else. The "measure from the model" rule favors Prosecutors and measure from base runs into problems when you run them. Their wings cause issues with unit coherence, whereas with measure from model you get a nice spread in their coherence. GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 01:58
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I LOVE that new Lord of Change. The head and staff are awesome. I was hoping for a Magnus dual kit, but this is so much better.
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Jan 8, 2017 21:51
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Skaarac is huge. I have him. He's knight sized and wouldn't work as a regular khorgorath.
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Jan 12, 2017 04:28
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All of the tinypic links in the OP seem broken. Is there some other image host I should use?
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Jan 17, 2017 20:16
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Atlas Hugged posted:It's been said before but "fun" is a subjective experience and not a metric in game design. At risk of being pedantic... Fun is a very useful initial measurement of someone's affect towards a product and usually a good playtesting module will lead to questions that piece apart the enjoyment into a series of specific reactions. If someone says something is "fun" it isn't specific, but it is a reaction you want to engender (usually) and it is something you can drill down into. Game design is very much about evoking specific experiences (subjective experiences) in customers and customers will tend to speak in a subjective language. So a constructive response to someone saying AoS is fun is not "fun isn't a valid way to talk about your experience" but something more like "can you be specific about what you enjoyed?" or "can you describe the experience that you just had?" and then successive drilling down (after observational playtesting). If someone plays my game and says it's fun it's one of a bunch of things that help me understand if their experience matches my expectations. Yes it's very high level, but subjectivity does not disqualify feedback.  GW needs to stop this "the designers got a note saying the rules had to be 4 pages" crap. They've turned the corner on community, now they need to turn the corner on design. I'm not sure how the community sends a clear message there.
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Jan 22, 2017 23:13
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:Traditionally the way you send this message is by buying games that are well designed and not buying ones that aren't. GW has seemed immune to that in the past. Prideful, almost, in their old fashioned processes.
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Jan 22, 2017 23:29
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Speaking of which, I picked up the Disciples of Tzeentch book today. The Lord of Change has some neat abilities: - Mastery of Magic: When casting or unbinding, change the lowest dice to equal the highest dice. - Spell-thief: On an unbinding roll of 9 or greater, the Lord of Change learns the spell and can cast it on a subsequent turn. - Can cast two spells a turn. And he's got a spell that can deal up to 9 mortal wounds. His Rod of Sorcery weapon deals 2D6 attacks (3/3/-/1). The blue scribes have a 50% chance of learning any spell cast within 18" (friend or foe) and have a spell that allows re-rolls of casting for Tzeentch Wizards. The Ogre Thaumaturge has a spell that creates a pink daemon for every mortal wound it causes. GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 00:51
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Bird dogs look like a lot of fun to paint. Hopefully the new Stormcast codex will have relics and spells, like the more recent codexes have. Sounds like an entirely updated codex and not a chamber book? Odd to say that the stormcast hunters are wearing lighter gear. Adding a pelt over your full plate just makes it heavier. Stormcast must never sweat. That said, I do like Stormcast a lot. Not sure they need any new units, they have all the battlefield roles covered cept casting. Any mid-range melee/shooter hybrid will have trouble beating dedicated melee or dedicated shooting options. GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 23:38
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Atlas Hugged posted:It's a minor change, but still one fundamental to choosing a force and that says to me that they're still making this up as they go. Right, I moderately agree. Where I disagree is only in that they appear to be adding these features by request of the community. TGA (the grand alliance) is one of the core forums for AoS posts from Brit players and they were asking for relics, school of magic, etc, for a while to add more depth to the game (although now they are complaining that there are too many rules, so go figure). GW seems to have a lot of trouble reasoning through how to support their games as a service (in the TF/Dota sense of an ongoing service with changing content and rules) without causing situations like this to happen. As far as I know, the relics, etc, aren't available in the app as a free download. Maybe they are now or will be soon, but I think it's okay for them to be updating the content as long as they have some way of delivering the patches within reason. I thought the $25 Generals' Handbook was _Fine_, but I don't think relics and spells are worth $50 for a new stormcast codex, but I'll probably have to pay it because I play stormcast and I really want relics and spells. That said, I don't think Forge World has handled this very well either. I play a bunch of horus heresy and if you own the digital books you get updates for free, but if you buy the physical books you get outdated. I think it's good they are willing to patch the game, but patches have to be delivered at low cost to everyone. (That's the genius of Steam.)
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Jan 24, 2017 04:57
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That duardin with the shotgun looks new.
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Jan 24, 2017 17:36
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This podcast is an interesting discussion of the state of competitive AoS: https://soundcloud.com/scrubyandwells/ep-11-balance-and-fun-in-age-of-sigmar Thought it was an enjoyable listen.
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Jan 25, 2017 08:38
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TKIY posted:I would have said Tzeentch since it looks like its an amalgam of a bunch of animals. Depends on how hard you want to bring the pain. First, get the Sylvaneth book so you can get the rules for various relics. Then you'll want some of the Glades. They let you deep strike certain units / formations onto the field. Sylvaneth are a highly mobile army so for building you want to leverage that. Don't design your lists thinking in 8th edition terms, use deep strike so that if your opponent gets a double turn you can punish him on your second turn. There is a relic that lets you summon an extra Glade which you could place over an objective to cause more problems for him. You can mix Sylvaneth with Wood Elves, but you might not be able to use Sylvaneth specific relics and lore and some of your abilities might not affect the Wood Elves (check the keywords).
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Jan 28, 2017 00:07
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Leperflesh posted:It doesn't matter. Just assemble the force you want with the models you want, drink heavily, shove your models into the middle of the table all piled up on top of one another, roll way too many dice, and win or lose based on who is the first player to get two turns in a row. Game doesn't play that way. I'm trying to decide between closing this thread or taking a more active roll in trying to dispell mistaken notions. It's pretty frustrating because most of the posts here are one line poo poo posts with no real content. The current set of scenarios allow for play a lot more like 40k than the early impressions of "mass in the middle." You might run for the middle, but your opponent (if they are playing to the objectives) will avoid that and go score. The turn doubling requires you to think a lot more about when you bring forces in. Unlike 40k you have total control over your deep striking reinforcements and you can respond to an enemy's plan much more freely if you keep a chunk of your army off the board. Stormcast, Skaven, and Sylvaneth all have interesting ways to get units on the board later. When the game first released there was no matched play objective other than kill points, so everyone ran for the middle. The current state of the game is one where list building, placement, movement management, etc, all matter just as much as how killy a unit is. For example, Sylvaneth can get a first turn alpha strike on the enemy dealing around 30 wounds on turn 1. Yet, that isn't particularly over powered because there are ways of making that strategy too risky. Stormcasts might keep a brotherhood off the board, leaving a low value target for the Sylvaneth and then teleport the brotherhood behind the Sylvaneth, taking objectives and decimating their monsters and key casters. A meta game has emerged that tames most of the excesses, but there are some problematic lists. Clan Skryre, for example, can deep strike their entire army from underground tunnels. This is mostly a problem for some chaos lists like Bloodbound who don't have much of an ability to deep strike to punish skryre for deploying out of tunnels too far forward. On the flip side, Bloodbound can deliver massive amounts of mortal wounds so they mostly suffer if they get hit before they can buff up. It's more interesting than it gets credit and the endless trolling makes trying to contribute something positive to this board feel like a waste of time.
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Jan 28, 2017 00:22
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Business Gorillas posted:Can someone explain to me how you're supposed to have a strategy when your opponent can randomly take two turns in a row without a rebuttal? Sure, there's quite a bit of developed theory in the community about playing for and defending against the double turn. There's some of that here: https://aos-tactics.com/2017/01/08/how-to-optimise-for-the-double-turn/ The double turn isn't just two rounds of combat. If you think of the game as a pile in the middle than, sure, you're going to be limited in how you think about the double turn. In games where you're playing for objectives the double turn adds a bunch of complexity. Also, because of alternating combat you don't take two rounds of uninterrupted combat. Your opponent goes twice, but both players get to play during the combat phase. You get to pick your order of activation. Double turn is least impactful on combat and most impactful on the other phases. Two rounds of movement let you avoid combat against a poorly positioned enemy and take/score an objective. If your opponent is due a double turn, you don't want to group up quite as much. You might avoid committing everything to a fight and favor covering an objective instead. If you are due the double turn, you might position in a way where (if it comes) you can make the play on the objective that you want. A round of movement and then shooting can be useful for units that have to move and shoot, so if your opponent is due the double turn you may position differently than otherwise. For example, a long charge to wound the shooter can be worth taking if they are due the double turn. So the double turn mostly impacts the thinking that goes into the turn before the double turn. You also have the ability to not take the double turn. If you do this, your opponent does not get a double turn either. Because shooting is very strong in the double turn, gunline armies tend to give their opponents double turns when they can and tend to be denied them when they don't have the initiative.
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Jan 28, 2017 01:37
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Son had a snow day so I wasn't able to go to work today. Instead, I painted a Lord Veritant:
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Feb 7, 2017 05:54
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