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Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!
Let us take a moment to remember the fallen.


Ring of Thorns, 2013-2017

RIP nvr 4get

and Fracture, but Fracture doesn't get a screenshot. Because it was terrible.

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Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!
Good news for warriors! Your beast gauge does NOT time out like stacks used to. So you can stockpile 100 gauge and then walk around with it, and the next mob you see can instantly get three cleaves right to the face if you fold in infuriate.

Bad news for warriors: you know that extremely distracting Super Saiyan aura you generate when you picked up stacks previously? Yeah, you're basically going to be running around in that, all the time. All. The. Time.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!
First loving boss fight of the expansion is "walk across Rhalgr's Reach", lag on every action, every character you see has a dc mark, and I got three 90002s just getting to the next MSQ mark in there.

Do yourselves a favor and get through and get out asap if you're just starting this morning.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!
Dear Square-Enix:
YOUR COCKSUCKING PRODUCT HAS REDUCED ME TO A GIBBERING MAN-APE WHOSE ONLY RESORT TO DEALING WITH THE ALMIGHTY loving GRIEF IT'S BESTOWED UPON ME IS TO SCREAM AND HURT MYSELF.

Seriously, I am jumping up and down and throwing my poo poo in handfuls at the loving computer screen in some impotent primal effort to get this instance to load. I have been sitting here trying to enjoy your expansion - YOUR EXPANSION, YOUR GAME, YOUR CONTRACT BETWEEN DEVELOPER AND CONSUMER THAT THE CONSUMER WILL ENJOY YOUR EXPANSION - but instead the Bull of Ala Mhigo's been crawling out of the computer and taking warm shits in my gaping mouth. Swear to god, you should have just added a little door to my new UI gauge through which a hand pops out and flips me off, because I am insulted that your QA or testers or whatever brainless shitstove three genes short of a monkey FAGNUT signs your games through thought that a person with more than a single loving digit IQ could enjoy Served with Cold Steel. INSULTED.

WORK WITH ME HERE: The goal's simple enough! Enter the loving battle! Hey, that's fine, it's just like hitting a single button; not a problem! Only deal is your cross-eyed team of tongue-slapping scenario designers decided to give every single loving advantage possible TO THE INSTANCE SERVERS rather than me.

How in the gently caress does RAUBAHN - who really jobbed that fight where he got his arm cut off, frankly - suddenly become SO loving GOOD that he can single-handedly hold off the teeming hordes of level 60-70 players desperate to get to Anime Japan? Huh!? Why!? You never see this shithead anywhere near the top loving 20 in a reddit argument about NPC power levels. BUT HO HO HO THIS TIME HE'S RAUBLOCK, THE BIGGEST STOP SIGN IN THE WORLD. 1.21 GIGAWATTS ALEXANDER, LET'S GO FORWARD AND BACK AND FORWARD AND BACK AND FORWARD AND BACK AND

But it's not just Raubahn with the magical error messages, it's the entire loving lineup of solo instances! THEY'RE ALL KICKING YOU OFF THE GAME. AND NONE GIVE A poo poo ABOUT LOGIN QUEUES.

But but but I of course, am still rocking some fragile prima donna of a connection that throws a hissy fit if you so much as look at the reflection of a queue button sideways! Add to this the entire expansion just got shitted on by some retarded discount not-Bahamut moon dragon and his quadruped robot frenemy and you've got a game that will give you error 90002 after 30 minutes in the login queue JUST BECAUSE IT CAN. WHOOPIE.

HURRR, you say. THAT'S JUST AN MMO DURING A LAUNCH PERIOD. IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE FUNCTIONAL. Well gently caress that noise, you lopsided pair of Thal's Balls.

Tell me, please, why does the GAME have to win? Huh? What happens when the game wins and I lose? Is there some huge loving kegger waiting for it when it gets every server to set up a waiting line in front of the npc? Is there money involved? Or perhaps the motives are more sinister. Maybe the game's family is being held hostage by Hiromichi Tanaka and Tanaka has his cock in Final Fantasy XI and he's holding a cell phone up to her and Yoshida can hear her pained moans and cries for help and the rear end in a top hat then says, "You keep every goddamn player in the Fringes, or I will get them to get you to run THIS game," I COULD UNDERSTAND THAT. I CAN BE SYMPATHETIC.

It's not any fun if I can't progress, you faggots. I want to move on. I want to unlock whatever piece of poo poo Primal fight that sticks you in a rock on victory you have hidden away from me so I can get locked out of the game permanently and get pissed off with that too. When your expansion prevents me from fully enjoying the product I have bought you have failed in your loving mission to deliver a game. You lose! You break the contract! You contract the gay and loving DIE DIE DIE.

I regret nothing

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

8-Bit Scholar posted:

Yeah I mean, most of the expansion is literally inaccessible to me. Bottom line, that's a poo poo situation.

The really egregious thing is that they had the presence of mind to put the hub city in heavensward available all of 60 seconds after you start the expansion content. No muss, no fuss, just 2-3 cutscenes and suddenly an entire city, market, levequests, hunt marks, all at the player's fingertips well before they have to put any kind of strain on their servers. So this was a solved problem that they decided to backtrack on.

Can you imagine what it would be like right now if Samurai and Red Mage started in the new city? There would have been practically nothing for people.

If anything I hope they take this as a cautionary tale and all subsequent expansions front-load that kind of content like HW did before anyone gets anywhere near an instance. They should just assume that whatever solo instance they put in first is going to be a possible likely bottleneck and make sure there's a significant chunk of content available before it.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

sunken fleet posted:

If I server transfer to low pop server can I beat the raubhan encounter?

If you server transfer you would need to consider the data centre and not a specific server.

The issue is that all instances are grouped by data centre and not by server anymore, to accommodate cross-server DF and PF. So when they have limited slots for Raubahn's fight, those slots are shared between every server on your data centre - so right now, for example, Gilgamesh is loving over every tiny server in the Aether data centre. Sorry about that! Transferring to a tiny NA server won't help as long as one of it's bigger brothers in the same data centre is trying to run the instance too.

If you want to do it, then you should be picking specifically an EU or JP data centre for this. And, frankly, you should get some kind of confirmation that servers on those centres are not running into this issue before you make the move.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

I did this too and was feeling pretty smug about it but holy loving poo poo is Ruby Sea ready to be the match of anyone who wants to do all the sidequests. There's always more. Always. More.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!
I've heard the dungeon boss music a good dozen times at this point and while the second half is obviously the Stormblood motif my brain just made the connection that the first half is a dramatic version of the Garlean anthem :stare:

I'm never going to get tired of Soken coming up with awesome catchy themes and sticking them everywhere.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Kalenn Istarion posted:

Distracting? I think you mean AWESOME

And whatever my new bar is called for WAR, grrr


Yeah, a few days later I have gotten used to it and in fact see the humour in it. Walking around the Azim Steppe picking up poo poo while in MAXIMUM POWER AURA :ssj: was pretty great.

Your new bar is called the Beast Gauge :black101:

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Cu Chulainn posted:

Yoooooo what coat is that

Field Commander set is granted through five achievements for first place victories in Seal Rock. It goes Head -> Feet -> Gloves -> Legs -> Body, for 1 -> 10 -> 30 -> 50 -> 100 victories respectively.

All the pieces are good and work well as a set or matched with other things, although 100 victories will obviously take you awhile. Hopefully there will be more interest in Seal Rock now with the PvP changes; I have always liked it a lot better then Shatter.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Thundarr posted:

I generally agree. It had some pretty good high points and amazing set pieces but on the whole it isn't as good as what we had in Heavensward.

(ending chat)

On the other hand, this expansion gave us lots of Alisae time and that is a good thing.

(full story spoilers)

Having just finished yesterday, I would agree with you that Zenos really isn't that interesting of a primary antagonist. I don't really think they were trying to romanticize him at the end though - he's still an irredeemable psycho and his last words basically read as irredeemable psycho to me in the moment. I will say that his english VA was goddamn incredible and elevated the character well beyond an otherwise generic portrayal basically by chewing all the scenery. Fordola was pretty good in this regard too, especially when she's angry, which was like 80% of the time.

Yotsuyu was the better antagonist by far in that they put effort into showing why she's a horrible person instead of Zenos being a horrible person just because he is. I actually liked the Far East portion of the expansion storyline way more then the Ala Mhigo portions - brand new area, new lore, the new characters were better written and more interesting (Gosetsu :allears:) and Yugiri finally got some character focus after first showing up in the story all of 2-3 years ago now.

Also, seriously, I gotta ask, all this effort into planning the siege and no one noticed the giant castle-sized dragon just chilling in an energy sphere on the roof of the Ala Mhigan palace? Not a single person?

Last fight was incredible although if I am being cynical I think it will utterly destroy trial roulette for awhile. Maybe I just got bad groups but two full lockouts before my raid group stepped in to help me clear it, people just couldn't handle all the mechanics in the last phase. It's a slower snowball then an extreme fight once people start dying but once it starts it's just as hard to reverse the wipe. Better then Thordan for sure, although I'm already terrified of how they'll make it WORSE for the extreme version...


No argument about Alisae being MVP of the scions this expansion, hope she sticks around.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

ilifinicus posted:

wait a loving second

SB MSQ spoiler if Lyse decides to leave the Scions because she can't stay neutral anymore, what about the WoL and how they pick and join a grand company? doesn't that make us non-neutral too

This is probably hand-waved by the fact that the WoL proves his neutrality, regardless of GC status, through actions, helping everyone. Saving the world several times will do that. Neither your GC nor the other two nations care that you decide to stand for Ishgard in the post-3.0 Grand Melee, after all.

National alignments are for lesser mortals who don't slay gods (that no one else can even go near) on a routine, almost daily basis.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Lemon-Lime posted:

I've now played WAR at 70 for a couple of days and it feels bad enough to play I'm considering just dropping tanking entirely, and either being 4-6 weeks behind on gearing while I level a DPS up or just not playing FF14 for the foreseeable future. :rip:

After a few days of ex primals I have the following problems with warrior:

1. Incoming damage is higher but not so high that I'm required to full time tank stance. Gauge spenders in tank stance are still not worth using in most cases when spending gauge in dps stance remains better. So optimal play for warrior is still to aggressively stance dance even while mt but now you're harshly penalized for doing so.

2. In addition to the penalty for stance dancing, removing stacks from our buffs has restricted how we can build gauge easily. Path giving the equivalent of two hw stacks is nice but the fact remains that you're entirely locked into your gcd rotation to build gauge; moreso now that zerk and infuriate are both 60s which encourages you to use infuriate during a zerk window. Shout out to enhanced infuriate being useless garbage btw.

2b. Speaking of useless garbage I can think of much better options for one of five precious ability slots then whatever shake it off is supposed to be.

3. getting the most out of inner release, our premier and best tool for spike dps, now takes like 30-40s worth of gcd rotation so that you go in with full gauge and fresh storms eye. This is really unwieldy and there are no concessions whatsoever to having to handle mechanics or unexpected developments mid fight and having to delay ir or use it prematurely is a significant hit to dps.

If I was going to fix all this I'd probably add a couple options off gcd for increasing gauge (having onslaught build gauge instead of taking it would be very nice) and I would either cap the stance penalty so it wouldn't apply at 50 or under, or get rid of the penalty entirely. Essentially, my position is gently caress Off Game I want to stance dance and you should not be trying to stop me.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

8-Bit Scholar posted:

Kugane Castle was a pleasant surprise, and it was everything I wanted Shisui to be. We have ninjas leaping out of walls, Samurai patrolling gardens, we have ninpo magic and just a loving gorgeous aesthetic through and through. But it ends with a duel with none other than Yojimbo himself, a gimmick-heavy battle that is loving spectacular to behold, a high note to end the expansion's dungeon content on and a pitch perfect way to announce a new era of extreme dungeons. Kugane Castle may be my new favorite dungeon in the entire game.

I was already in love with this particular dungeon early on with the appearance of Tall Ninja. Why is he so tall? Who knows! He's a Tall Ninja. I dunno why I find the concept so funny but I do. Having a Tall Ninja as the second boss was just icing. What really sold this dungeon on me was the boss fight at the end.

loving Yojimbo just rises up out of the floor and once the fight is over he just sinks back down again I was more or less paralyzed with laughter for a good 20 seconds after that. He's just, like, later fellows. What a god. I sort of hope he keeps showing up in subsequent L70 dungeons and just wandering off every time.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Evil Fluffy posted:

I'd love to know what the deal was with that plotline. Like did they always plan to have it go full Poochy on us or did they just have to scrap it so it wouldn't be a loose end* when Stormblood hit?

It does seem a little bit abrupt but it does serve a few purposes:

1. Gives a little bit more context to the Ascian's actions
2. Sets up the idea of parallel universes which almost certainly will be mined for content at some point in the future
3. Puts another couple datapoints into a slow-burning metaplot that our own power and ability to constantly destroy all challengers may actually have some negative affect on the fabric of reality, considering the WoDs are basically us after being successful for even longer
4. Introduces Heavensward-version Alisae as a proper red mage shitwrecker and all around Best Scion

XIV's plotline is notable for keeping future plots on the back burner for long periods of time before they actually become the main focus, occasionally flipping back to remind you that they exist - consider all the buildup to Stormblood. The concept of Ala Mhigo and it's occupation was first being introduced as a concept way back in 2013 when we're all taking our first characters through Little Ala Mhigo. Follow that up with the end of 2.5 with Ilberd bringing the Ala Mhigo plot back into focus, prompting our flight to Ishgard, then a brief touch upon that plot with in HW when we go back and get Raubahn, and then allusions to it in 3.4's MSQ before 3.5 is pretty much all about that because now we're going into the Ala Mhigo expansion.

The thing with the WoD plot line was that it wasn't a WoD plot line - it was an Ascian plot line, the longest plot arc passing through everything, and it was basically there just to remind you that the Ascians exist, and are assholes, and the entire world itself still has some serious problems that we will need to solve beyond which Evil Empire is currently causing problems on a given continent in this expansion.

Fake Edit:

Nostalgia4Infinity posted:

I love everything about this :allears:

"Is it safe to come out yet?"
"NO."

Makes me giggle every time.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Augus posted:

I remember reading that there was gonna be a "Super Savage" trial in between Omega content updates that would be tuned to the level of Second Coil Savage and be based on an old fight or something? Has anything been said about that since? Bahamut Primal Savage would be pretty nuts.

What we know is that the actual raid tiers are not going to be tuned too harshly and in the off-patches there will be something for the super hardcore people that will be the extra difficult challenges but we don't know specifically what it's going to be. Given the effort involved, probably not entirely new versions of raids with extra mechanics like SCS was because raid tiers take the two patches of prep work as it is.

As a hilarious aside this is what they decided on basically because they don't trust the player base to give effective feedback on raids anymore, at least going by some anecdotes Yoshida has dropped in interviews. It went from them releasing Final Coil in 2.4 and getting complaints like "This is too easy! We want harder raids!". So when HW came out Gordias was a giant wrecking ball of raid difficulty and everyone went "Holy poo poo this is too hard! We hate this!" and some significant chunk of the raid population quit raiding. An entire expansion reacting to that later, we get Creator, and once again people are going "This is too easy! We want harder raids!" because no one learns anything. Apparently now they're just going to tune raids based on internal statistics of how many people are clearing them and when.

The solution is probably just to scale everything to Midas but that ship has probably sailed in XIV

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

nuru posted:

I don't like that Rhalgar's rebuilding is probably going to be our modern Revenant's Toll / Idyllshire considering the resistance already won and we could be chilling in Ala Mihgo or Kugane instead.

Interesting possible twist to this - if you go back to Yanxia after completing the MSQ you can still go back to that Doman residential area that ended the Doma arc - it has an actual area map, Hien is there, along with like a dozen NPCs and they're all talking about rebuilding the place (Triple Triad NPC there too, probably easily missed otherwise).

Considering that Rhalgr's Reach is basically "built" at this point and there isn't exactly incredible room for expansion like Mor Dhona or Idyllshire, it would be a nice change if other areas got to enjoy periodic improvements with the patch cycle, like Doma, or even the residential district in the Lochs.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Ainsley McTree posted:

I cleared it last night for the first time and it was fun, but I think it's maybe just a teensy bit too difficult for "casual" content. Certainly way harder than anything else in SB up to that point, it caught me by surprise.

And by "too difficult for casual content" I don't mean that I minded dealing with the mechanics myself, but that if it's content that you're expected to queue up for alongside random casual chucklefucks from duty finder instead of a static or PF group, I'm not really thrilled about the idea of clearing it being dependent on 7 random idiots from a duty roulette not loving it up too hard. It's no fun to wipe constantly because other people are making mistakes and you can't control it; I feel like that's the province of savage/ex primal content, personally.

It's also possible that it's just temporarily really bad right now because so many people are doing it for the first time, so the odds of getting a full group of people capable of navigating the mechanics are very low. Also I was drunk and kept loving up the mechanics

Fights like Menagerie sink into a vicious cycle super quick. Storytime:

I was late behind the rest of my raid group when we were all running through the MSQ, coming in second last. When first reaching the fight I blind DFed because that's how I had done everything else (hurray for tank privilege) and ended up blowing an hour to a full lockout that ended in failure.

At this point about six people in my raid group (who were not only past it but now patiently waiting for me to clear so we could try the Ex primals blind) called me an idiot, we partied up, and we immediately one-shot the fight with a single dps helper from DF (who died). Aside from getting their first clear, none of my friends had put any more time into Menagerie than I; less, probably. But we can string decent rotations together and have played with each other for awhile that that's all it took.

In the weeks since I've seen the same advice both in my FC and every LS that I belong to whenever people get to Menagerie - don't DF the fight, don't PF the fight. Stay away from those people. Tell us when you get there, we will run with you.

Which, I mean, good for us, I suppose. It's an excellent fight to play with friends, a good way to stretch your muscles as a fresh 70 who is still getting used to a changed class and new tools. But I can't imagine that these conversations aren't happening in an awful lot of social circles in the game across all servers, and that has to result in some significant chunk of skilled players just not being there when you DF the fight. People who haven't made a lot of social connections or are not in an active FC, who have to resort to blind queues, become an ever greater portion of the players trying to get through, so the pool of player skill gets worse over time, not better. I saw this same principle at work with both Steps of Faith fights, and the Chrysalis way back in 2.4. It seems a lot more prevalent now, perhaps people taking bad experiences from those earlier fights and just giving up on DF even faster.

I don't really know what my point is here it's just an interesting thing I've been dwelling on. Making story fights difficult can quickly become self-defeating for the player base as a whole if enough players just stick with their friends and acquaintances to clear it. Is that punishing people who don't make enough friends? Or should you expect players to have enough social networking by endgame to tap for these fights?

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

LOCUST FART HELL posted:

The establishing moment when I knew we were in for a good ride was early on when they take in Tataru on some bullshit charge and you march on in to clear her name via trial by combat. It helped establish that you weren't loving around and also it felt good to cut loose and beat up some priests.

e: also worth remembering that the lore reason DRK exists is to execute corrupt clergy and knights that are above the law

I'm not gonna lie the moment where the court is going WILL A CHAMPION STAND FOR THIS LALAFELL and you march right the gently caress in there, the greatest knights in Ishgard look at you like "who the gently caress's this rear end in a top hat", and you trounce the gently caress outta them while heroic music plays is probably the highlight of the entire first act of Heavensward for me. And at that point you've barely been out of the city, I think.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Toshimo posted:

My rule of thumb is that if you don't care for something another player is doing, you communicate to them like an adult instead of being a giant manbaby. It's had a pretty good success rate.

Speaking as a tank I have a 100% success rate at controlling the rest of the party's actions by just typing something quick into party chat between pulls. "This is a double pull", "This guy is a single, then doubling the next two", "pulling up to (x)". I don't think I've ever gotten a complaint about it, so far everyone I'm with seems to trust that I know what I'm doing (even if it's singles), as long as I tell them what I'm doing in advance.

Cao Ni Ma posted:

I did my first siren song yesterday tanking and let me tell you, if things continue the way they do I dont know if I would bother doing multipulls. The summoner was content with dropping the ground targeted aoe and the red mage forgot they had aoe in the first place for 3/4 of the dungeon.

Going into a dungeon with people I don't know I spend the first minute checking levels (if it's sub-70) and then gear. Based on the above and the dungeon I'm on I do either a single or double pull at the start to test them out. If it goes well, I pull big. If it's a shitshow, I pull singles. And same deal I'll always end that pull by typing something like "well that went well I'll pull big" or "that was rough, I'll stick to singles" and it more or less keeps everyone behaving. You sort of intuit how well a pack goes based more on how fast it dies over how low your hp gets - because a good group will have the healer contributing as well.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

SonicRulez posted:

I have yet to try Aquapolis. I thought it was more of a gatherer thing?

Steps to enjoy Aquapolis:

1. Go with friends.
2. Everyone be on voice chat.
3. Everyone should be drinking. You should, in fact, make an Aquapolis drinking game, based on doors opening/not opening.

You haven't lived in this game until you get the seventh of seven doors finally opening after a double fakeout and a bunch of wasted nerds scream their heads off on discord, louder then when you clear a savage floor for the first time

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Maguoob posted:

During downtime is when notes usually come out. Here is a quick rundown on tank changes:

PLD suddenly preferred? Better nerf them quickly because we can't upset the WAR/DRK tank meta from all of HWs.

Here is an actual rundown on tank changes:

PLD is cock of the walk right now because, in an expansion where a large number of the jobs have some missteps that need to be corrected as part of the combat redesign, PLD got a perfect setup right out of the box. They have a nice long-duration physical boost CD in Fight or Flight, which boosts the damage of an oGCD that gives them a temporary boost to magic damage under certain conditions, which prompts them to blow their MP on their new damaging spell. Then their optimal melee combo refreshes their MP in time for it all to happen again. PLD slips into it's optimal rotation very intuitively, with allowances made to swap in their hate combo when necessary. Their job gauge builds by itself through blocks and is used to fuel special defensive abilities. PLD is pretty much exactly where you want it to be.

WAR and DRK, on the other hand, are not. WAR suffers far more then the other two tanks for the stance changing penalty to the job gauge because the job is built from the ground up to use that gauge far more than PLD or DRK do. Both jobs are currently suffering from potency issues with some abilities and general clunkiness to play; so there are hard reductions to DPS from potency and soft reductions to DPS because the player controlling them can't get the same performance out of the job as they could with a PLD.

Holy Spirit is getting a bit of a nerf and if you want to debate that I mean there's room on each side, it's not like the spell was turning PLD into a quasi-dps in the same way Fell Cleave was transforming WAR in 3.0, it was just fun and useful and satisfying to pull off. It'll probably still be that on the other side. Nothing mechanically is expected to change with PLD, or PLD's rotation, and it should be just as fun going into Savage as it is right now.

Meanwhile, WAR and DRK are both getting potency buffs to bring them up to PLD's level, and WAR specifically is getting more work done by removing the stance dance penalty (as well as a hilarious admission that, oh yeah, Shake it Off is entirely loving useless in a game where all the debuffs you care about are unremovable so this entire button needs to be redone).

Frankly the fact that they easily identify what's pissing people off with the current jobs at 70 and more importantly are ok with making these changes now, before Savage, speaks well of the whole process here. I doubt everyone will be satisfied with all the changes tomorrow, but if there are still problems I've got enough faith in the dev team to see them fixed over time.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

ilifinicus posted:

oh my god pepsi man is back to kill all the statics of the world



Halicarnassus: How many layers of mechanics are you on
Brute Justice: Like, five or six, my dude
Halicarnassus: You are like a little baby
Halicarnassus: watch this

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

TheRagamuffin posted:

As a newbie tank, I'm finding the biggest thing that trips me up is knowing what mobs In about to lose threat lead on. I kinda wish there were separate aggro icons for "you have a decent threat lead" versus "you have a tenuous threat lead". How do better tanks keep track of this? Do I just need to get used to reading the A/2/3/4/etc markers at a glance? Is there any way that doesn't involve just cycling through every mob?

e: Should I just not even care about this level of micromanagement, and just Overpower again, when in doubt?

Remembering your ABCs, Always Be COverpowering, certainly won't hurt. In lower dungeons what will help is not to watch the threat bars, but to watch your dps party members. If you've done some overpowers but you have a dragoon single targeting something you're not, that's the one that will get away from you.

In general this is something you just start to develop instinctively the more dungeons you run. After a certain point you know if you pull a pack in a dungeon and overpower X amount of times you'll have hate locked down to a degree that the pack will be dead before someone pulls. Even then, do not freak out over losing control of a mob periodically - this is what provoke and tomahawk are for.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!
The main core issue is that when they were designing the pre-2.0 endgame content, ie: everything in the first 40 hours, they intentionally dumbed everything down because they expected there to be a lot of new players who were very experienced in Final Fantasy but maybe had never looked at a MMO before and had never played WoW. So the plan is for the first 30 levels to literally be Babby's First MMO. You can see this in how the early class quests for tank or healer roles have entire quests designed to hammer in the concepts like "mobs should be attackiing YOU, gladiator" or "you have dps spells for a reason, conjurer", and combat below 50 is there to give an entirely fresh person the muscle memory for more complex rotations one very tiny step at a time.

I mean, well and good for when XIV launched but that was two years ago and I imagine there are a lot more people coming to it now who have probably played an mmo some time in their lives, especially in the west.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!
The point where dungeons start becoming halfway interesting is Brayflox's Longstop at, I think, 32, and the plot conveniently starts becoming more compelling right after you finish the excruciating side arc that ends with the Longstop as well.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

HOOLY BOOLY posted:

Got Deliverance as WAR and i suppose you're suppose to be stance dancing a ton to get the most use huh? Trying to tank it in for extensive periods of time usually ends with aggro dropping before too long. Get gauge in Deliverance, switch to Fell Cleave, then switch back?

How the hell were you suppose to use these when you lose 50 beast gauge when you changed? That would be so damned annoying.

The stance dance penalty, among other things, nearly killed WAR's popularity at max level outright. We're in a much better spot now, but the damage is still done. Be thankful you're leveling it long after that debacle is resolved.

In 4-man content you'll generally do a bunch of Overpowers and/or Steel Cyclones to secure hate, and then switch to Deliverance as a mob pack dies, or gets small enough that you won't die without a tank stance. Against single-target bosses in dungeons or raids you should be spending the majority of your time in Deliverance after an initial burst in Defiance to secure hate, time cooldowns appropriately to survive incoming damage even without tank stance buffs, and rely on tank swaps or shirk (or both) to keep you ahead of your party, with brief Defiance periods if they're warranted. Figuring out how much hate to build before you swap over is just something you'll learn to intuit as you go. That said, figuring out the absolute minimum amount of time, in any given situation, that you have to be in tank stance to keep hate secured and yourself alive is the #1 most important concept to being a good Warrior, and a good tank in general. Start practicing now!

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

SwissArmyDruid posted:

Often. First stack won't cost you anything, and a success will put you up at 3. Patient touch again, and a success puts you up at 5, while a loss takes you down to 2. (1/2, rounded up.) Still not terrible.

It's from there on upwards that failures are bad, because 1) you start to run out of durability to recover and 2) you're already 2/5ths of the way through a Steady Hand.

I figure two Patient Touches are pretty much de rigeur, three or more depending on how much of a gambler you are.

In theory, this is entirely true, and something that will probably be good to remember when we get 3-star crafts.

In practice, people already have completely consistent crafting patterns for every craft added, 2-stars included, that completely omit Patient touch to go all in on Manip2 and spamming Prudent. Like I'm not even exaggerating here - crafting is a solved problem at the moment, as long as you have the raw stats to start 2-star recipes, and will remain so until theoretical 3-star recipes spike difficulty and quality requirements. Thanks to cunning potions you can even slack on CP melds a fair bit. I haven't used anything but prudent in months.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

HOOLY BOOLY posted:

Had a Red Mage just now in Shisui complain that i shouldn't be stance swapping because he kept ripping aggro off me in Deliverance. Once i told him i'm going to keep doing it because i like to do damage, he spent the entire next pull AFK typing out some long diatribe on how it's a leveling dungeon and it doesn't matter and i should learn how to "weave" Overpower into my DPS The pull he sat out was slightly slower, but suddenly there were no issues, no problems with the ninja or the healer taking aggro at all.


Why he waited until the last pull before the final boss is a bit of a mystery to me. Correct me if i'm wrong but it seems like just randomly throwing in overpowers while in Deliverance is a bit of a waste since aggro gain sucks dick while you're in Deliverance and that is time that is better spent Fell Cleaving/Decimating.

How big were you pulling things? This should be a non-issue if you're pulling double packs because that necessitates starting in Defiance anyway and the Steel Cyclone/Overpower spam, powered by berserk, that you unleash until the pack dwindles down to 3-4 and you swap to deliverance should be giving you an insurmountable hate lead that the dps can't rip from before the rest of the mobs die.

You are right that hate generation is pretty much not there in Deliverance, although an Onslaught will still give you a nice chunk if you need to dump gauge. However what you should be doing, as tank, is building enough of a hate lead in tank stance so that when you swap over the DPS cannot rip from you before the mobs die. You doing DPS is a good thing that should be optimized, but making sure that the actual DPS jobs can fully optimize as well is just going to make the dungeon faster for everyone. In a levelling dungeon the effective power of the group is going to be fairly even, so if a DPS is consistently pulling hate off you then you need to ramp up your hate generation, or pay more attention to what that DPS is targeting.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

cheetah7071 posted:

I'm just extrapolating from how hard O3S is. Maybe O4S is even more than twice as long to learn! If it's more like 5-10 times then still working on it isn't so absurd.

O4S is XIV's perfect example of the most difficult part of a raid - mastering execution.

The dark secret of NED is that once you've figured out how to survive Grand Cross Omega (including the last terminal antilight immediately afterwards) you are set to beat the fight. Omega happens at almost exactly the halfway mark of the fight and everything past Omega is a near 1:1 repeat what came before. He actually has less mechanics to deal with then, say, A8S, because while NED and Brute Justice are fights of roughly the same length NED repeats all his mechanics twice in the same order while BJ will bust out new ones 10 minutes in for you to deal with. Because of this NED is mechanically one of the more easy end-raid bosses that XIV has done.

But it's still hard, because he's tuned to time you out. For the first ~3 weeks or so after savage launch if you wanted your clear you essentially needed to play the entire 12.5 minute fight perfectly. No deaths, practically no emptiness debuffs, or you would not beat the hard enrage. That's a lot of focus to ask of a group, and it could be frustrating because after a certain point everyone will be aware that any death snatched a potential clear away.

Fortunately, NED also drops in difficulty dramatically as people gear up through tomes, and if everyone is rocking tomestone weapons the fight gets much, much more lax in terms of how many errors it will allow. After a certain point it's O3S and not O4S that becomes the really annoying fight of the tier.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!
You guys

I have spent the night in Ultimate Coil and I am

Just

So happy Twisters are a part of my life again :unsmith:

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Augus posted:

that sounds really dumb and boring

ArtIsResistance posted:

It's as if the people who take videogames the most seriously are the most lame and least fun

There are plenty of people streaming if you feel a desire to feel smart and see something exciting, just not everyone.

The entire endgame community is looking at this fight, speculating on progress, salivating for every new 60 second twitch capture that shows some new ridiculous mechanic. The first group to get the clear are going to get major acclaim, and if what is current knowledge about the fight is any indication, it will be well earned.

World-first progression is something additional, almost separate, from the rest of the video game. It's a competition with your peers, a race, and you are not obligated to help the people you're racing against because you are racing against them.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Reiterpallasch posted:

Since there's a lot of interest/macabre curiosity about the fight in the thread, let's have a look at one of the Phase 3 clips that's been making the rounds. Starting at around 40 seconds into the clip, bahamut:

(madness)

This takes place in the span of about 20 seconds. This combination is not particularly unusual in mechanical complexity for the fight. The fight is theorized to last approximately 20 minutes.

Additional context:

The actual Bahamut fight is phase 3, with the first two phases being Twintania and Nael respectively, with their own mechanics dialled to 12 (thats right, we're going beyond 11) and hard enrage timers of 3min 30s and 3min per enemy. Presumably Bahamut will also have a hard enrage timer but, haha, no one is expecting to find out what it is for awhile.

This is trio attack #4 out of an expected five. To even see this you had to get past three other trio attacks, all entirely different, which are basically Twin, Nael, and Bahamut doing 1-3 of their mechanics each, simultaneously.

You may note in that video that Bahamut is at ~11.8 million hp remaining out of an initial ~13.5 million, so you get a sense of how early in the Bahamut phase this actually is.

At this point in the fight, one datamined enemy has not even made an appearance yet.

E: I understand how decimals work! :downs:

Meiteron fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Oct 26, 2017

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

I'm loving sorry are those the goddamn motherfucking dragon helpers from loving T9 and also Ultimate Phase 2 just chilling in the outside in that upper right screenshot

gently caress my life

E: Twin and Bahamut are up there too so this is the fifth trio attack oh my god why would you do I can't even

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Rascyc posted:

I suspect we'll start to see some player base whiplash if the ultimate fight keeps going longer.

Like people were afraid of players getting mad at discovering they weren't good enough to clear half way through Nael and nobody had pity for those people, but what do you say to people who have dumped 80 hours now and can't get through the harder stages of Bahamut despite the time being thrown at it? I think that's probably a much worse time to realize you or your static might not be good enough!

It's really not a question of "good enough" but the raw, unfeeling march of time.

People laughed at a Yoshida interview prepatch when he mentioned that groups doing an average number of hours a week (so, not WF progression) would easily take multiple months to clear this fight. Months, they'd laugh at, because the only time something like that happened in the game ever was T5 and that was only because T5 had some legitimate bugs in it. Raiders are crazy, SE can never slow them down! Now here we are and turns out Yoshida's probably going to be right on the money.

My group isn't remotely close to the current bleeding edge of the fight but we've progressed far enough to enjoy a common raid hurdle. Even if you have a given phase on utter, total lockdown thanks to massive repetition people are still human and sometimes slip up, especially when you are doing the same fight nonstop for multiple hours. In Ultimate every slip up usually means a wipe and back to start. What this means is if every individual mechanic in the fight takes the same amount of time to learn, execute, and perfect on paper, then in practice every individual mechanic takes longer then the one before it because you lose more and more pulls to attrition. Even the wipes get worse when someone screwing up an egg against Twin eats maybe 60 seconds but progressing far enough to start screwing up divebombs in Nael eats ~5 minutes, and so on.

So when you take that principle and you stretch it out to what looks easily to be a 20 minute fight with nearly zero downtime and no looping of mechanics like Alexander or NED and you end up with a fight that apparently takes more then 80 hours or whatever WF groups have spent in there since last week. 80's probably an extreme lowball.

I mean, it's worth remembering that Yoshida straight up said they'll consider tweaking the fight if no one's cleared it in 2-3 weeks. This is the dev team's first serious attempt at a no-holds-barred gently caress-off-difficult raid battle and they're not guaranteed to get that right on their first offering. The paradox of raid design is every serious fight tries very hard to stop you from clearing it, and yet every fight is also designed to be inevitably cleared.

Frankly I still expect a clear or multiple clears before that point; but for everyone who hasn't compressed 3 months into a span of weeks, well, gotta just keep going back if you really want it!

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Hidingo Kojimba posted:

I think we've just found the next super-savage raid.

No joke I would be totally down for a Ultimate tier raid which is you versus every Garlean Legatus and Tribunus we've seen so far, in the style of that one FFXII boss fight they added to the Zodiac edition which was you versus all the Judges in a cage match.

Glamour reward will be the Garlean armor sets. Dyeable.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Rascyc posted:

They were ending quite fast yesterday for me but then everyone discovered the cannons and that was it.

I think the mode is a disappointment for me after the newness wore off. Like you can take the generator but there's so many gas tanks in the moat and caves that it's kind of whatever, except it's the most un-fun thing be on tank duty. Whoever grabs the mechs will probably always be the ones with mechs cause they revive in 5 seconds and just grab a new one. Everyone else is basically just swarming something ineffectively until your core is getting pushed, playing hide and seek in the moat, or generally just bouncing off healers in the generator room. Oppressor is basically "ugh all the cruise chasers are occupied, I guess I should help us win <alt-tab for 30 seconds while you slowly trundle across the battlefield>"

About the only cool thing to do is taking control of the chaser or the justice cause they can move reasonably fast and splatter people.

Actually solo'ing the mechs with a bard/mch/smn is pretty funny too.

Still have no idea what the dota adds do.

If a mammet can make it to a tower or core they will charge up an attack and self-destruct into the tower doing about 20% of it's health. They won't fight players, only each other, so when pushing a lane even if it's hectic someone should be trying to clear out opposing mammets because no one watches the mammets in a scrap.

Additionally, if you're on foot and land a killshot on an enemy mammet, you get a CE bonus, which is an alternative way to build ceruleum without having to scour mid for it.

Because of this in the early game I've found it's more effective to not send a giant murder ball into the generator room but to have 1-2 parties push up a lane while everyone is occupied. Kill mammets on the way and escort your own as far up to the tower as you can. Worst case you still get some CE for when it's time for robot wars, best case you make inroads on a tower and clear up the path for the first wave of your own mechs.

Side note - you don't have to die to get back to your base to grab a mech, using Return will get you there too.

As far as swarming goes I dunno I guess people are getting used to the dynamic still. People on foot are a fast, responsive option to deal with Oppressors (the only thing faster is 2-4 chasers spamming their 1 unopposed) and every enemy Oppressor that shows up on the map should have a pack of players hunting for it. Similarly, Cruise Chasers are countered by a few good dps getting right up in their faces; I have in the past soloed a Cruise Chaser player on SAM because their toolkit works pretty bad against some agile players directly inside their own hitbox. On foot against a Justice is a lot more iffy but you can often take advantage of the fact that there's very little feedback to a mech pilot when they're in danger, and in the middle of a giant scrum of angry robots you can luck out and have a Justice pilot straight up not notice you gnawing at their ankles until you've already done a big chunk of damage.

I actually have had more fun being a hunter-killer for isolated mechs on foot then pushing a lane with a mech since my survivability is higher and it feels better to turn back a push when you bring down an oppressor or even a chaser escort. Plus if you're keeping an eye on your map you'll occasionally notice some clever boy trying to pilot an oppressor through the lake hoping no one will notice. :allears:

I noticed. :unsmigghh:

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

gmq posted:

I'm level 14 in the trial and it's been kinda boring so far, especially the combat.

I assume the entire game is not like this but how many hours do I need to play before it starts being fun?

In a level or two you are going to get access to your first 4man dungeons which will be more interesting then just running from place to place.

The issue with XIV's early game is they designed from the ground up to accommodate people who knew what Final Fantasy was but maybe not World of Warcraft, so 1-50 is essentially Easy Tutorials for Babby's First MMO.

Basically if you're feeling bored you should be focusing entirely on main story quests (which have the unique icon) or side quests which unlock things (which have a blue marker as opposed to yellow, such as your class quests) and only start faffing about with side quests if you run into a level disparity. If you started on a server with an xp bonus that'll pretty much never happen and you can run the MSQ super fast. The higher level you get the more buttons you'll get to shake up combat, and the more complex and interesting the content itself will get.

E: You can probably tell from how Xarbala and I came up with the same reason almost down to the wording that this is a situation that comes up fairly regularly. We're all still here despite the slow start, so give it some time and see if it grows on you!

Meiteron fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Nov 24, 2017

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

DarkstarIV posted:

Trailer is up for anyone interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1tABKPBlJs

Lots of interesting story stuff in this one.

Here I am thinking I am a mature adult human being and from the very first second when FFVI music starts playing I'm giggling and bouncing up and down in my mature adult office chair like I'm 10 years old again and it's christmas.

Everything in there looks great, hype levels critical.

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Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Dwesa posted:

I understood it merely as a rationalization of WoL's continuing use of mount/minion after that scene. His spirit is seemingly unkillable and he just incarnates into new bodies.

It's this. (Sigmascope spoilers)

Middy starts as a giant dragon and "dies" when he destroys the Garlean dreadnaught in Mor Dhona before 2.0 even starts. Even dead for years buried in the wreckage of the fight he's still got enough spiritual pep to give you a decent boss fight, as a ghost dragon, when you do Keeper of the Lake.

The whole stripping you of the blessing of light that happens in 2.5 is partially a test and partially using the power you had acquired over the 2.0 series to jump-start a resurrection that was already happening at that point, but would have otherwise taken, like, centuries. Instead he gets enough power to incarnate as first the tiny dragon, then the slightly larger dragon that serves as the mount you get near the end of 3.0. He would have kept growing that way but instead burned everything that he had built up to temporarily turn into the big dragon to get you out of that jam. With what he had been stockpiling gone, he's back to the sleeping spirit he was before you ever went to Mor Dhona and woke him back up.

All that said this is one of those plot points which is entirely open-ended. If they don't want to use Midgardsormr in the future, well, then he must be sleeping for centuries. If at any point they want him back in the plot hand-waving him waking up will be as easy as writing something like 2.5 that they've already done.

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