USPOL: Pulitzer Feeling Increasingly Out Of Place In New York Times Office

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL: Pulitzer Feeling Increasingly Out Of Place In New York Times Office

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stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Pembroke Fuse posted:

Just to pre-empt every argument we're going to have:

- BLM are the true racists
- Antifa are the true fascists
- Feminists are the true sexists
- Abolitionists are the true slavers
- Something about freeze peach

There, saved you all the trouble.

you forgot something about lgbtq people

# ¿ Sep 11, 2017 03:27

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 04:14

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/907042389054943232 lmbo

# ¿ Sep 11, 2017 03:44

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Lightning Lord posted:

I a... a... ag... I concur with David Frum?

a new uspol for a new david frum

# ¿ Sep 11, 2017 06:02

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Motto posted:

People really need to realize that d&d and Twitter don't encompass the whole of us politics

# ¿ Sep 12, 2017 00:05

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

https://mobile.twitter.com/APWestRegion/status/907339143461699584

oh also, happy 9/11

https://mobile.twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/907142947354828800

# ¿ Sep 12, 2017 00:10

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

GreyjoyBastard posted:

There are people alive who remember Eisenhower.

edit: and depending on your definition of "better", "memory", and maybe "Republican", same for Taft or even Teddy Roosevelt

im sure old persians who got tortured by savak also dislike eisenhower so, yes i mean they still remember eisenhower

# ¿ Sep 15, 2017 06:30

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Dead Reckoning posted:

How is that robber baron logic? I think climate change and environmental degradation is literally the most important issue we face as a country and a species, and if we don't get on top of it, millions of people and thousands of species are going to die. At best. Most of those people will be the poorest and most desperate ones. If IDGAF about the bottom 99%, I'd be saying we should pour money into SpaceX so Elon Musk can give us orbital Villa Straylight mansions to watch the carnage from.
Which is why I asked about effectiveness and metrics.

I never said I work in a homeless shelter. I work in EMS and come into contact with homeless and transient patients on a regular basis.
Literally no one party to this discussion has posted anything remotely resembling a plan with numbers. Deteriorata asked for criticisms and potential issues. I gave mine.

I forgot we can only solve one problem at once y'all

e:

Dead Reckoning posted:

You know what? Screw you. If someone says, "hey you can feed this starving child right in front of you, or you can choose to prevent ten people on the other side of the planet from dying of preventable disease this year" it's not a failure of empathy if I pick the ten, it's a choice not to limit my empathy to what is right in front of me, not to limit my focus to immediate problems. I get that this issue is personal for you, but asking "would this be the best use of our limited resources?" isn't sociopathy, it's rationality.

Thank you, I'll read that.

lmao yes policy is an either/or proposition we can only either feed starving children or do public health work on disease

the only way you could say that you're arguing from a rational place is if you literally have no knowledge of the fact that governments can do more than one thing at once

you do know that so you're really not arguing the smartest position with the given information so either you're a hopeless moron or a pathetic troll

either way

stone cold fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Sep 17, 2017

# ¿ Sep 17, 2017 00:18

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Shbobdb posted:

Gun control is a bad area to go after. It's simply too toxic and it doesn't really do much. Focusing on both economic and racial inequality will better address the underlying causes of gun violence.

Though addressing racial equality may lead to a significant uptick in gun violence in the short term.

can we skip to the part where you take a month off

we can do more than one policy at a time

# ¿ Oct 3, 2017 03:29

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Shbobdb posted:

We can, but we've made zero progress on meaningful gun control and it's served to massively polarize the opposition.

It's incredibly stupid but spending political capital on issues adjacent to the problem as opposed to the problem itself is crazy.

It's also telling that one of the few things the Clinton wing of the party won't triangulate on is gun control. There's a reason for that and it's because it's primarily symbolic. It's an abortion-style wedge issue for a certain subtype of urban liberal.

Stretch Marx posted:

I don't think you guys have considered ~the optics~.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2017 05:49

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:

Antifa is about antifascism but socialism can be used to promote ethnic supremacy and has so...

I'm sorry that you are unable to actually engage with the line of discussion. My desire is not to offend you but only reveal the truth to you.

would you call yourself a race realist, migf

# ¿ Oct 8, 2017 19:25

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

here's a good interview

quote:

MJ: You�ve sometimes been critiqued as a writer who deals in racial theory while remaining apolitical and not offering actual answers for how to grapple with the realities of racism. What do you make of that analysis?

TC: That�s loving ridiculous! That�s what �The Case for Reparations� is! There are facts and numbers all through that piece. But people don�t like the answer I give. I don�t know when reparations became apolitical or just a symbolic fight. I don�t know when decarceration became an apolitical stance. I think what they want is a kind of how-to to activism. But that�s what activists do! That�s not what journalists do. We have plenty of people doing that work, so I don�t know why people are looking to me for that.

MJ: It seems like you�ve become a favorite of liberal white people who are looking to prove that they �get it� when it comes to racism. Do you agree with that?

TC: People say that, but when I wrote �Donald Trump Is the First White President,� I was catching it from all corners. I had white liberals write into The Atlantic to critique the piece. The same with �The Case for Reparations.� I found myself in arguments. If George Packer isn�t a white liberal, I don�t know who is. If Johnathan Chait isn�t a white liberal, I don�t know who is. So when people say that, I think, �Who are you talking about?�

# ¿ Oct 9, 2017 00:09

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

steinrokkan posted:

The Iraq war was bad, but at least it wasn't murder.

crimes against humanity are a step above murder, a good post

# ¿ Oct 25, 2017 18:25

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Shbobdb posted:

Pre-9/11 Bush was saber rattling against loving CHINA.

well, if you recall, the first sort of major diplomatic kerfuffle of the bush administration was the midair collision of a navy ep-3e aries ii intel plane with a plan fighter jet over hainan so

it wasn�t completely contextless

it was still stupid as hell tho

# ¿ Oct 25, 2017 18:29

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Nikalajoga posted:

Viewing politics as war without actually having the means to kill, maim, or disenfranchise your opponents seems like a pretty futile exercise.

Why isn't it sexist, given that there are a lot of men who are chummy with that old monster but receive not one-tenth of the condemnation? That is, given an obvious disparity on the basis of gender or sex, one which transparently benefits cis men, the assumption is that it's revolting to call that sexist, or a manifestation of sexism. And you lack the means to make that received wisdom, so it should require some justification. What it will get is some flailing about over how people are defending Kissinger.

yep, it is

but good luck seeing somebody make a good argument against this point

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:22

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

tekz posted:

Hillary Clinton is a vile human being, both for seeking the endorsement and friendship of Henry Kissinger, and for pushing for regime change in Libya and reducing it to a permanent warzone.

would you

a. call her worse than kissinger himself

and

b. call her worse than obama

just wondering how consistent your line of reasoning is, tia

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:25

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

tekz posted:

What are you

talking about

moron

is it worse to be friends with kissinger or to be kissinger

sorry if you can�t read too good, let me know if that�s a hard question to answer and i�ll rephrase

:kiddo:

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:28

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Condiv posted:

it's deffo worse to be kissinger imo

being friends with him is bad tho

okay cool so the second part of the question now that that�s answered is

is it worse to be obama or clinton, tia

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:29

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

obama got endorsed by fellow war criminal to kissinger, colin powell

colin powell, who got his start covering up my lai

out of curiosity, were y�all just as mad back then, and if not, why do cambodian, laotian, and vietnamese lives matter more to you than iraqi, tia

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:34

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

who is a us politician whose fopo y�all approve of and if any of you say tulsi, stop posting forever

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:36

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

tekz posted:

Socratic dialogue as imagined by liberals with severe brain damage.

hm, no

but thanks for not answering

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:37

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

tekz posted:

You've got me; I love Barack Obama and want to kiss him on the lips.

cool cool cool

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:41

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Neurolimal posted:

Washington, if only because America was still a lovely colony without the means to harm other countries at that point, and his exit speech warned of the effects of abandoning isolationism after obtaining a precarious freedom.

counterpoint: indigenous peoples, slaves, etc

Nikalajoga posted:

When you think about it, Abraham Lincoln was one of the worst Presidents of the United States for supporting regime change in Mexico against the legitimate Maximilian government. Such a shocking act of wanton imperialism against an modernizing and reforming monarch must go down as one of the evillest acts of the United States of America.

all american presidents have been bad, some just less worse than others

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:42

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

I.G.Y. posted:

this is some very high level concern trolling that doesn't account for people developing politically in the past literal decade. but liberals have no sense of history anyways

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:43

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

The Kingfish posted:

Its not misogynist to denounce Hillary Clinton for being good friends with a war criminal. You bunch of loving freaks.

you voted for a man who views women as objects to be grabbed by our genitals

so i guess what im saying is :frogon:

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:45

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Flavahbeast posted:

All presidents are war criminals and any citizen who votes for a winning candidate is complicit. You think Sanders will be any different? He defended Operation Cast Lead, he's not gonna stop droning the Taliban any more than the previous guy did. The only moral act for any American is to flee the country and die

this is pretty true

much like how there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, all voting americans are complicit in the crimes america commits in its position as hegemon

that being said, people who voted for trump are far more culpable than people who pulled the lever in any other way

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:47

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Raskolnikov38 posted:

Do they have to be living because I�m going to pick Henry Harrison

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:48

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Raskolnikov38 posted:

Tecumseh's war was before he was a politician

it counts

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 01:51

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Calibanibal posted:

Me, even though it was just an AOL chatroom poll

a/s/l/w

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 02:09

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

DrNutt posted:

Although to be fair I used to work in a nursing home and that particular anecdote feels exceedingly tame for a 93 year old guy who's run out of fucks to give. At a certain point all filters and decency seem to go for just about everyone.

counterpoint: sexism.....is bad?!?!!!!

# ¿ Oct 26, 2017 17:10

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

nazis are monsters

how is this hard

# ¿ Nov 28, 2017 20:49

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Talmonis posted:

I'm sorry if I came off that way. I think you're right that they act like monsters. But I just think that by saying they're nothing more than monsters is letting humanity itself off too easily. Others who didn't stop them are complicit in it. Tribalism is humanity's greatest sin.

apropos of nothing

quote:

�We so obviously despise them, we so obviously condescend to them,� the conservative social scientist Charles Murray, who co-wrote The Bell Curve, recently told The New Yorker, speaking of the white working class. �The only slur you can use at a dinner party and get away with is to call somebody a redneck�that won�t give you any problems in Manhattan.�

�The utter contempt with which privileged Eastern liberals such as myself discuss red-state, gun-country, working-class America as ridiculous and morons and rubes,� charged the celebrity chef Anthony Bourdain, �is largely responsible for the upswell of rage and contempt and desire to pull down the temple that we�re seeing now.�

That black people, who have lived for centuries under such derision and condescension, have not yet been driven into the arms of Trump does not trouble these theoreticians. After all, in this analysis, Trump�s racism and the racism of his supporters are incidental to his rise. Indeed, the alleged glee with which liberals call out Trump�s bigotry is assigned even more power than the bigotry itself. Ostensibly assaulted by campus protests, battered by arguments about intersectionality, and oppressed by new bathroom rights, a blameless white working class did the only thing any reasonable polity might: elect an orcish reality-television star who insists on taking his intelligence briefings in picture-book form.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2017 20:51

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

GlyphGryph posted:

If only we sympathized with the poow widdle nazis harder they wouldn�t have done the holocaust!

# ¿ Nov 28, 2017 20:53

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

nazis aren�t people why is this controversial y�all got goddamn brain spiders or some poo poo

# ¿ Nov 28, 2017 20:58

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

GlyphGryph posted:

I have no loving clue why some people in this thread are so goddamn butthurt about calling Nazi's people, but they really do.

gb2 stormfrontchan

# ¿ Nov 28, 2017 21:00

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Kilroy posted:

It is splitting hairs and personally I don't give much of a drat if you want to insist they aren't people, or not. I don't see the point in doing so, but you do you.

I don't think that rises to the level of putting anyone "in their place".

you�re telling km, a black Jew, that actually nazis aren�t monsters they�re really people

:allears:

# ¿ Nov 28, 2017 21:02

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Kilroy posted:

Por que no los dos?

I mean yeah you�re doing that and you�re

Kilroy posted:

putting [her] "in [her] place".

so in that sense you can have it both ways I guess

# ¿ Nov 28, 2017 21:05

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Kilroy posted:

When you phrase it that way, to me, it sounds like you're trying to partially absolve them of their sins. It sounds like you're robbing them of their agency at the same time as insisting they must be destroying. I don't want to rob them of their agency, they chose to be what they are, and must be destroyed for it.

But, like I said, it is splitting hairs - we both agree on what to actually do. And I came into this late and apparently rehashed some arguments other posters already made. I definitely agree with the sentiment that it isn't worth going on for pages about it.

calling nazis monsters is absolving them of their sins

-an idiot

# ¿ Nov 28, 2017 21:08