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Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

steinrokkan posted:

Has anything come out of the Qatar embargo?

Loss of face for Saudi Arabia.

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Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Maybe former PM Hariri has their family fortune tied in KSA to his name personally and MbS have gently reminded him that he could confiscate those assets due to him being a citizen. :v:

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

That's just trolling.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
Would be hella sweet if Putin would do a big mission accomplished ceremony on that aircraft carrier of theirs, preferably with a cloud of that pitch black exhaust bellowing out in the background.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Russia with Rosatom is one of the few competent builders of nuclear power plants left in world, so if you want a decent nuclear power plant and don't mind cuddling up with Russia, you hit them up. The expansion and export of their businesses related to nuclear power generation has been a clear focus for their governments for quite some time.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
Please don't go and join and die for some violent rebellion al Saqr, this thread would not be the same without you spewing local venom and the word fascist over the middle eastern power players.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Bohemian Nights posted:

Haha, turns out that norwegian army dude who pissed off Turkey so much during that NATO exercise has a kurdish background

https://translate.google.com/transl...Erdogan-rasende

To the surprise of no one.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Aurubin posted:

MBS wants puppet states, not diplomatic allies.

He is the epitome example of an old time empire monarch that are too spoiled and high on his royal blood to accept anything less than total obedience from anyone not of such a grand standing and lineage as himself.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

OhFunny posted:

Pakistan is pissed.

Also lol at being a US ambassador and having to explain/apologize for tweets from the president.

And the ambassador probably has to wing this whole thing from start finish because the Trump administration has made sure that his chain of command and support structures are either absent or crippled. He should have had a year of practice though, so maybe he'll manage.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

OhFunny posted:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/948548807612084224

Some staffer needs to grab his phone and smash it.

Donald is a combined FSB and IRGC plant.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Sinteres posted:

The conspiracy theory about MBS being a goon may have been confirmed:

https://twitter.com/swin24/status/950078625205932032

Let's all hope that with proper medication Al-Saqr can retain control and become the dominant personality again.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Volkerball posted:

Deso Dogg got killed according to ISIS media.

I'm surprised he didn't escape or got put in a SVBIED earlier like so many other western ISIS recruits.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Blut posted:

Heres hoping a Kurdish Mannerheim emerges.

Only speaking Swedish and not the dominant language of his troops? Since Trump has the presidency i guess that might suffice for the allied with nazis part at least.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

The X-man cometh posted:

I didn't know left-wing parties privatized major industries and handed them to the leader's family members.

It makes more sense when you realize the ruling family is the state.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Orange Devil posted:

I guess we all get to find out how well Leopard's hold up. Other than those, what tanks does Turkey use anyway?

Lots of old but modernized Patton tanks of the m48 and m60 types in addition to some Leopard 1 tanks. The bulk of their tank forces are basically made up by older western tanks but it seems like the ones spearheading the Syrian ops are the newer Leopard 2 ones. But I recall reading something about the Turkish armed forces skimping out on some armor upgrades due to the financial crisis? I don't know if that was for the Leopard 2s though, or simply something regarding the continued use of old hardware.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Saladman posted:

E: The film and cut quality is great too, even a fair number of good drone shots.

One of the few drone shots from Syria without people dying I hope.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

A Buttery Pastry posted:

They need to triangulate to reach upper-middle class Afghans.

All 5-10% of them? I mean, why would they need to cater to such a small minority whose recent relative wealth and power is heavily dependent on their enemy (an enemy which are steadily losing interest in propping up that minority security wise and whose absence will severely depower that minority anyway).

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Willie Tomg posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_N3kROJvn0

(i mean, granting the premise of the joke, you ain't wrong nawmean?)

Oh hey, I replied to that calorie rich sand German, never mind then!

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Al-Saqr posted:

you gave me a loving heart attack. also it's super cool to know that MBS gives Kissinger, AIPAC and loving zionists more of a hearing than he ever gives his own loving countrymen or any arabs in general.

God loving dammit why does god keep loving us over.

Old Swedish belief was that the prosperity of the land was directly linked to the king, and famines and misery could be remedied by ritually sacrificing the king. So what I'm saying is that, have you tried human sacrifice?

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

HorrificExistence posted:

what do the blue airplane and green star mean?

I guess it's which part of the armed forces the candidate comes from, I hope I'm wrong though.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Darkman Fanpage posted:

lol if you believe a CIA agent telling you they have your back.

They will have your back, with a dagger.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Xae posted:

The drone explanation seems like pure bullshit.

Either it would be a military drone, which you would shoot down with real anti-air missiles or the kind of commercial drone people shoot them down with shotguns all the time in the states.

Drone explanation is completely plausible since 1. Off the shelf drones can easily be used to deliver deadly ordinance or spy on people, both of which seem like very plausible threats to a princeling such as MBS. 2. It was dead in the night and their aim will be poo poo. Also, since you are MBS you care not for stray bullets killing your neighboring citizens.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Wait, is the body (it? he? I don't know what the proper pronoun is for dead Iranian royalty) an actual Egypt-style specially-prepared mummy or is it just an ordinary dried and desiccated corpse?

Maybe we all just misunderstood and it was actually the remains of Tadj ol-Molouk that was found. :v:

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Volkerball posted:

It's not like it's gonna be a headline on RT.

Russians don't really watch RT in the first place anyway. The sentiment of your post still holds true though.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

fishmech posted:

No, they don't. Until they can handle MAD.

And even still, the world's most nuclear armed nation collapsed despite them.

It's pretty nitpicky in the context of the discussion but yes, they don't prevent regime change, they are just really good at preventing foreign military intervention that aims to enforce a regime change. A regime change can still happen through other non military means, as was the case for the soviet union.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Sinteres posted:

China wants West Turkestan to complete the set.

50 years from now: "The historical record is clear that the inhabitants of Anatolia have always been Han Chinese."

Well, the original turkic peoples emigrated to central Asia and Anatolia from Mongolia and Xinjiang so that narrative is likely sellable to Han supremacists even today :v:

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Sergg posted:

Alawites are just naturally better soldiers, which is why they get promoted to officer so quickly.
Also they get their own traffic lanes in Damascus because they're such good drivers

Actually, they introduced separate lanes after Bassels death due to Alawites being bad drivers.

this is fake news

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

RandomPauI posted:

What could happen of Russian/Israeli relationships sour?

Russia stops buying Israeli weapons and might bother to enforce control of Syrian airspace.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Theyve been trying
With the usual saudi rate of success.

So they have spent billions on strengthening the position of the Qatari ruling family, alienated potential allies and greatly empowered radical islamists that crave for the ruination of the house of Saud?

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

qkkl posted:

If you're going to torture and dismember someone for criticizing you it is important to video tape it so you can show other dissidents what could happen to them if they don't shut up. The problem here is that MBS did not follow Putin's lead on how to assassinate dissidents. He needed to make it seem like unofficial pro-MBS guys did the killing, and in a random area, rather than an official regime assassination squad in the Saudi consulate.

The reason for the taping was because MBS said "I want his head on a silver platter" and the hatchet men had to tape that and upload it to a the security services own Google drive for MBS to see.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

enraged_camel posted:

But enough about the USA.


If by “organizing” you mean “slaughtering massive numbers of civilians over a period of several decades”, you may have a point.


You say “nationalists” but I don’t know a single person who identifies as a Turk who is supportive of Kurdistan.

The liberal party in Turkey (CHP) was supportive of HDP for a while, and went so far as to “lend” them some of their votes so that they could reach the 10% threshold for parliamentary representation, but then it turned out that HDP’s leaders were in cohorts with, and receiving directions from, PKK. They lost support after that.


Is it any more a “myth” than that of, say, the USA, which is also composed of numerous ethnic groups and minorities (most of which are also treated horribly)?


I don’t deny the Armenian genocide, and I’m happy to report that, while its denial is still the official policy, many Turks I keep in touch with accept that it happened during the final days of the previous regime.

But here is the thing: Turkey is obviously a mix of many different ethnic groups. If every one of those were granted sovereignty, Turkey would cease to exist. Why do you blame Turks for being against that outcome?

What country in the world is OK with parts of it splitting off to form new countries? Furthermore, why is “ethnic group” the criteria that is used? How does the USA view its own segregationists? Could, say, California secede from the union if its people voted for it? (That’s a rhetorical question obviously. Last time there was a serious secessionist movement in the USA, it, too, was brutally oppressed, and the secessionists were branded “traitors”. And we all are familiar with the present-day discourse surrounding the American Civil War.)

Anyways, my point is, passing judgment is easy. What is not easy is understanding the complex historical and geopolitical realities of conflicts. Americans in general aren’t used to this, because America is geographically isolated, surrounded by friendly neighbors, and is not burdened by the types of gripes and feuds the Old World is. So I’m sharing my perspective as a Turk, and on this dead gay forum it’s probably a unique perspective. I’ve lost friends and relatives to PKK’s suicide bombers. When I was growing up in the 80s and 90s I would be scared to walk down the street, wondering which car or bus would blow up. You don’t know what that is like, and hopefully you never will. All I ask is you dial back your cynicism and make an effort to actually understand the people you are criticizing.

The history is complex but Turkey as a modern state has been and continues to be enormously lovely towards kurds. Like, if you do not want to foment a violent secessionist movement from your significant minority then why do you for the last 70 years suppress that minority, bans their language and do forced disappearances and bombing of their civilians? The Turkish state has by far the biggest resources available to mend this conflict in a peaceful way that does not include secession, but it keeps on fomenting the conflict because it has no interest in a peaceful solution that is not 100% on their terms, and the conflict is a convenient tool for the leadership to keep power.

That last paragraph of you is also quite strange when it seems to wholly disregard the perspective of kurds, the party involved that has suffered the most civilian casualties by most, if not all, estimates. Do you not think that a Kurdish village boy in the 80s and 90s would also fear which of his relatives that would get arbitrarily detained and disappeared/or just raped at a checkpoint? Or if next time when he went home from school, an artillery barrage would come without warning?

Zudgemud fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Jan 5, 2019

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

HorrificExistence posted:

The Ottoman empire was the greatest force for anti-imperialism in the 19th century. Why wouldn't you go to bat for it? You wanna keep supporting colonial successor states?

And the second greatest anti-imperialist force was the British empire.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

And these things come from embracing that you are a multi ethnic power, not the hypernationalist ethnostate which is what modern Turkey has been promoting since its founding and which is at the core of the Turkey-kurd conflict.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Grape posted:

Don't get it twisted, the Ottoman Empire didn't embrace diversity anymore than most pre-modern states did. It was a dynastic holding that wasn't looking through ethnic lenses in the first place because "aristocrats < everyone else".
And this kind of whitewashy talk dovetails directly into modern Turkish nationalism.

True, embracing is the wrong word to describe what I meant. I was trying to convey the fact that conformation to an ethnicity was not really an issue and focal point for the rulers and that were one of the things that made it successful at ruling such a vast and diverse empire for so long.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

enraged_camel posted:

Nah, sorry. You don't get to have your country push their own interests halfway around the world, and then criticize when other countries fight for their own interests on their own soil and around their own borders. "But I don't agree with the US" is just a loving cop out. Must be nice, reaping the benefits of decades of US imperialism while at the same time disconnecting yourself from its moral hazards.

He's still not American.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Though to be true, Sweden, just like all of western Europe, has been benefiting from US imperialism, :911::respek::sweden: etc.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

enraged_camel posted:

i didnt know that was a turkish saying

You are thinking of the wrong kind of turkey

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Ham posted:

Egypt update: Sisi amended the constitution to make himself president till 2034. Just 2034, pinky swear!

He would be like 80 then so it's not unlikely that he just croaks before that time. That still wouldn't fix much though, unless it was by a bomb that took out the rest of the generals at the same time.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Cat Mattress posted:

One word: refugees.



Generic reminders that in European languages, it's not the "Middle" East, it's the "Near" East.

No its still middle east in most germanic languages. The near east is a Latin & Slavic thing as far as I know.

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Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Helsing posted:

In a brilliant move the US allowed China to acquire classified American technology, setting back China's aerospace industry by several decades.

The project is deserving of the jokes and all but its not like rival powers will be unable to make sense of the tech, learn to counter it, and then replicate it in some formats that aren't the avatar of expensive lovely compromises.

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