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May 21, 2024 07:27
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- Burn Zone
- May 22, 2004
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yeah this thread is fine, are people just upset that we aren't all full mask off calling for genocide and poo poo?
just a heads up, for all of the hate readers quoting me in SAD, i stand by everything i have said in this thread without remorse or regret, i will always say my piece and stand up against apartheid nazism, and if you disagree feel free to talk to me on this discussion i will politely have a discussion a out it with you and own you in the marketplace of ideas, its truly sad that you are too cowardly to do so and need to run to the principal because your fee fees got hurt, and you dont have any moral backbone or spine when the chips of humanity and decency against the forces of fascism and white colonialism are on the ground, but i never expected any less of people like you. im not gonna go into SAD to make my case or defend myself, i dont need to. here i stand, here are my thoughts, i can do no other. Free palestine, DTI.
Al-Saqr is right
Burn Zone has issued a correction as of 17:41 on Oct 11, 2023
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Oct 11, 2023 17:34
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- Burn Zone
- May 22, 2004
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We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.
username/post combo 
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Oct 19, 2023 18:21
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- Burn Zone
- May 22, 2004
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not sure if this was posted yet but I didn't sub to Sy Hersh's substack for nothin
THE MYSTERIES OF OCTOBER 7
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/the-mysteries-of-october-7
See More Hearse posted:
A decade ago, while on a trip to the Middle East, my wife and I were sharing a pizza dinner in a Jerusalem hotel with an American journalist and a photographer who had just returned from a reporting visit to Gaza City. An anchorman for one of America’s television networks and his wife joined us. The journalist and photographer chatted at some point in Arabic with our waiter and that chatter prompted a middle-aged gentleman in a suit and tie who was dining alone to approach our table and ask if he could join. He explained that he was a US Army intelligence officer, a colonel, assigned to the American consulate in Jerusalem and his mission was to report on Gaza. The only problem, he said, was that he was not allowed to actually travel to Gaza and so when he overheard the journalists talking about their visit there, he wanted to know more.
We invited him to join, and the colonel got what was in effect a briefing on the deprivation and despair that the reporters had found.
Gaza and Hamas—the Islamist group that has led the territory since 2007—remain murky, confounding subjects today. Why did Hamas stage an early morning raid on October 7 in what turned out to be a series of unguarded kibbutzim in Israel south? Why were only a few Israelis Israeli soldiers on duty that morning?
We in the media do not know the full story. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is saying nothing about Israel’s failure to defend its citizens, although a number of leading generals have publicly apologized for their lapse, and Hamas has insisted that the mission it authorized was solely aimed at the capture of a few Israeli soldiers to be used for a possible prisoner exchange. Hamas operatives began the operation early on the morning of October 7 by blowing up the unguarded fences separating Gaza from Israel.
Hamas also has claimed that the bulk of the mayhem was caused by other terrorist groups and the aggrieved citizens of Gaza who flooded across the downed gates and fences, with no Israeli soldiers to stop them. It has been widely reported that Israel, at the instigation of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, was financing Hamas, via funds supplied by Qatar, in the belief that a strong Hamas would make a two-state solution, long sought by some in Washington, unlikely.
That is where we are today. Israel is now in the process of turning Gaza City into rubble, via constant bombing, and is also planning to begin a ground invasion in the near future. A well informed American official told me that the Israeli leadership is known to be considering flooding Hamas's vast tunnel system before sending in its troops, many of whom have had only a few weeks of training in the maneuvers and coordination required for the invasion. Such an act could mean that Israel was prepared to write off the hostages still in jeopardy.
Where the estimated two hundred-plus hostages are is an open question. Israel is only talking about the end of the Hamas regime, and Hamas has so far released four hostages. Two elderly Israelis were released yesterday, with no known demands.
The release was the second in three days. The first involved two Americans, a mother and her teenage daughter, who appeared to be in good health. All four were given over to the International Committee of the Red Cross. The American official told me that the Israel leadership expects more to come soon. The releases could be a sign that the Hamas leadership is feeling pressure because of the incessant bombing, which is widely assumed to be a precursor to an all-out Israel ground attack. They could also be a sign that Hamas is not going to let the Israeli bombing dictate its hostage policy. There have been secret talks about a larger release of Israeli prisoners since the first United Nations relief trucks began flowing from Egypt into southern Gaza, where up to a million hungry and thirsty refugees were waiting.
The complete aid shipment should have been delivered directly to the Red Cross representatives who are already in Gaza City, the American official told me, “but the Egyptian UN officials wanted a cut and so did Hamas.” The official said that after much back and forth late last week a deal was worked out. The distribution of the goods would be left in the hands of Red Cross officials in Gaza City, and Hamas would forward its share, the official said, to its fighters “in the tunnels and their families. The rest would go to cronies”—that is, to senior members of the Hamas leadership. In return, Hamas would release ten more hostages when the actual transfer of goods took place. It is not known whether the hostages to be released were to include any Americans.
The American official who outlined the bargaining involved did not know why the agreement fell apart. But he was dismissive of the greed involved. “The Egyptians and Palestinian factions were fighting for the relief goods,” he told me, “while the needy living without clean water and food will continue to suffer.”
One serious complication that has not been publicly discussed since the October 7 attack is that the Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas, were not the sole attackers or collectors of hostages on a day in which there was no Israeli Army presence in the kibbutzim and villages under attack for at least eight hours.
“We know,” the American official told me, “that the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade participated.” He was referring to a coalition of Palestinian armed groups that have been designated as a terrorist organization by the United States, Israel, the European Union, and a number of other nations worldwide. (Hamas has also been designated a terrorist group by the US and the EU.)
“Was the attack a surprise to the Hamas civilian leadership? No. It was long in the planning and coordinated. The other crazies with a history of terrorism were enlisted to join forces. Did they expect success? No. Did the attacking force commit egregious atrocities? Yes. Was it unanticipated by Hamas? No. All involved proclaimed their intention and proved it in their tactics over the past twenty years. Will Israel react and destroy Hamas? Yes. Are they justified? Was the creation of a Jewish state justified? One person’s answer to the second question answers the first.” He went on: “Will the refugees die of starvation? No. Public sympathy for their genuine suffering will save the day.”
I heard a similar account of how the long-planned October 7 attack got out of control from a long-standing expert on Middle Eastern politics who has no access to American intelligence assessments. “The goal of the Palestinian operation,” he told me, “was exactly what happened—a shocking and inspired military operation that humiliated the Israelis and shook them to their foundation. Hamas military commanders had a map of bases [inside Israel] and wanted to take computer servers with all of the potentially compromising information they contained and would probably have sent them to Iran for analysis.”
Another Hamas goal, I was told, was to take Israeli Army prisoners and force Israel to trade for the release of thousands of Gazan and West Bank prisoners, break the siege of Gaza, and continue to compete with the Palestine Liberation Organization that was initially designated by the 1993 Oslo Accords to control the West Bank and Gaza. “A further bonus of a successful attack,” the expert said, “would have been to stifle the ongoing normalization talks between Saudi Arabia and Israel.”
The Qassam wing of Hamas initiated the attack by launching rockets to distract the Israeli military and then disarmed the electronic system that provided round-the-clock surveillance of the fence around Gaza. The Hamas fighters who poured through the destroyed fence were soon followed by local residents of Gaza City who, in their ongoing anger at Israel, were eager to join in on the assault, as were members of other resistance groups in the Gaza Strip. The expert said he was told that attacking the all-night dance party—260 young Israelis were slaughtered that morning—was not part of the initial plan, but no one is denying that, planned or not, the murders at the dance party and in the Israeli settlements ultimately are the responsibility of Hamas.
From the Hamas point of view, the expert added, “no matter what the Israelis do” in response to the slaughter triggered by Hamas—attack in force with ground troops or continue the saturation bombing of Gaza City—the October 7 raid was one from which the Israeli Defense Force cannot recover. The expert told me that “Israel calling in the US to make threats and send carriers and make threats only makes Israel look weaker.” The expert added that the Hamas leadership understands that Israel may have to invade Gaza on the ground in the immediate future, and declare victory no matter how many casualties are incurred, if only to reassure its traumatized population.
The expert said that the critical issue for the Israeli military today, in the view of the Hamas leadership, is that a planned Hamas commando raid aimed at seizing IDF soldiers “turned into a prison break.” News of the unchallenged penetration of the initial Hamas attackers quickly spread throughout Gaza, and spontaneous groups of Gazans and hastily formed martyr hit teams poured through the downed fence. The result, said the expert, turned “the operation into a catastrophic success.”
More than 200 hostages were carted off—one can see their abduction in various videos that have emerged—on the backs of a motorcycle or a bicycle or jammed into autos, and now are believed to be scattered in underground tunnels or in private homes throughout Gaza. Their fate may never be known.
There are scores of videos providing evidence of what clearly was a fly-by-night attack that succeeded because of a stunning Israeli Defense Force failure that thus far has not led to the punishment of a single Israeli army officer. That possibility—that the initially limited Hamas goal turned into the horror that took place essentially because of the IDF failure—has yet to be acknowledged by Israel’s military and political leadership. They believe, as the expert said, that Hamas and other factions broke out of Gaza into Israel with specific orders to kill and abduct as many civilians and soldiers as possible.
On October 11, Tal Heinrich, the spokesman for Netanyahu, added to the furor by telling CNN that the IDF found Israeli infants and toddlers with their “heads decapitated,” presumably while going house to house searching for survivors. Netanhayu was reported to have conveyed such to President Biden during one of their meetings this month. Hamas immediately denied the subsequent reports, which briefly dominated the news in America. A spokesman for the Israeli government announced a day later that it could not confirm that Hamas attackers cut off the heads of babies.
Whatever the truth, the Israeli public is rattled as never before with questions about the ability of the Israeli government to protect its citizenry. In return, they are subjected to braying and bellicosity by their prime minister who, unlike his senior generals and the head of Shin Bet, the Israeli internal security agency, has refused so far to publicly take responsibility for the military and intelligence failures on October 7. A recent public opinion poll in Israel showed that Netanyahu has the support of 29 percent of his country.
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Oct 24, 2023 23:56
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- Burn Zone
- May 22, 2004
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new Sy Hersh drop https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-the-hostage-crisis-could-end
HOW THE HOSTAGE CRISIS COULD END
The Israeli military and political leadership are beginning to see the results of a carefully planned end game that will be murderous—there is no other word for it—to the members of the Hamas military now being hunted down in the tunnels and rubble of Gaza City. The orders are to shoot to kill on sight. The collapse of the military wing of Hamas has given the group’s political leadership, who claim to have not been directly involved in the planning for the October 7 massacre, a chance to demonstrate their good will and save their own lives by arranging for Israeli hostages to be transferred to a basement in the besieged al-Shifa hospital, long a stronghold of Hamas. Some Israeli officials fear that time is running out because it’s not known how long the air in the tunnels will be breathable.
A possible breakthrough, if that is the right word, concerning the hostages emerged in secret talks between Israel and Yahya Sinwar, a onetime prisoner of Israel who now directs the political wing of Hamas. Sinwar publicly announced on October 28 that Hamas was ready for what he said would be an “immediate” prisoner swap with Israel in return for the release of all Palestinian prisoners now in Israeli custody.
The Hamas leader and his colleagues have been told that survival is possible if they release the Israeli hostages and agree to begin holding immediate war-crime tribunals. The Israelis want the death penalty for those Hamas combat leaders who encouraged and then did nothing to stop the war crimes of their fighters.
“The Hamas political leadership was not involved in the massacre,” an American official told me, “and the thought was that if they agree to try their own people and order them executed, they will be given their lives while also exonerating Israel for the war. We’re holding out clemency for the Hamas political leadership—giving them a chance to surrender the hostages and cling to life by moving them to the hospital.” One key member of the Hamas political leadership, Sinwar’s predecessor Ismail Hanyieh, left Gaza with his family before the October attack took place.
A significant factor in the talks, the American official said, has been the Hamas horrors that involved the raping, mutilation, and murder of Israeli civilians, including the very young and very old, who were left unprotected by the Israeli military during the ten or so hours of rampage on October 7. Graphic evidence of the unimaginable brutality was recorded by iPhones and GoPro head cameras and relayed in real time by the Hamas fighters to family and friends in Gaza and the West Bank, and is now gradually being released by the Israeli government as worldwide condemnation mounts of Israel’s retaliatory bombing of Gaza. Those unopposed attacks, at last count, had led to more than ten thousand deaths and worldwide rage and demonstrations protesting the Israeli decision to target the civilians of Gaza—an assault seen as a war crime by many. Hundreds of thousands marched Saturday in Washington, Berlin, Santiago, Rome, and London calling for an immediate ceasefire.
The concept of an Israeli-instigated war-crimes tribunal amid a bombing campaign that has flattened much of Gaza may seem out of a bad novel but an Israeli expert on the region, who knows of the seriousness of current hostage talks, surprised me by depicting Sinwar as someone “who could be open to a deal.
“He is a fanatic and an ascetic,” the expert said of Sinwar, who served twenty-two years in an Israeli prison for murder. “Dedicated to the cause. No family, very religious but got very friendly with Shin Bet [Israeli internal security] guys while in prison and was seen as not irrational. He will want a chance to give service to the cause. He will be open to a door.” Sinwar also became fluent in Hebrew while in prison. The expert predicted that Sinwar, along with some of the Hamas officials now in Qatar, “would want any deal to include a commitment that Israel would not come after them if a deal is made.”
Evidence of Sinwar’s publicly promised prisoner deal—his initial offer called the release of the Israeli hostages to be traded for thousands of Palestinian prisoners now in Israeli jails—is the hoped for flow of the current Israeli hostages to their much safer, drier, and healthier quarters below ground in Gaza’s Al-Shifa hospital. I was told that water and food would be available.
At the time of writing the Israeli infantry, aided by the bombing, is in the process of either blowing up Hamas tunnels or sending in combat units, accompanied by dogs trained to sniff out human beings, with the mission to kill Hamas soldiers on site or to force others to the surface where they are being shot on sight. The two hundred Hamas soldiers who were captured during or in the aftermath of the October 7 attacks “were not interrogated nicely,” I was told by an Israeli combat veteran, and they have provided higher numbers—an estimated 35,000 fighters, total—of the Hamas fighting force than were known to Israeli intelligence, adding to the many questions left unanswered by the attack.
The requests by President Joe Biden and Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who recently visited Tel Aviv, for a bombing “pause” were rejected out of hand by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli military leadership. One knowledgeable American official told me that a ceasefire and a pause are seen by the Israeli leadership as the same thing: a halt in the bombing. I was further told that one general in the Israeli command headquarters in Tel Aviv noted any bombing pause at this point will only be “to reload.”
As the Israeli bombing and ground attack continues—Gaza City is now under siege from the North, East, South, and the Mediterranean Sea—Sinwar and his political wing colleagues also have been told that their own chances of survival will improve if they continue to ensure that the Israeli hostages, now believed to total 248, are moved to relative safety in the hospital.
“Thirty-one of the hostages are seventy years and older—one is said to be a Holocaust survivor, and two are infants, aged four months and eight months, with no mother or father, and twenty-three under eighteen years of age.” The Israeli who relayed those numbers to me said that the International Committee of the Red Cross “has not been pressuring Hamas to grant them access to the hostages, although it did seek almost immediate access to the two hundred Hamas prisoners in Israeli custody.”
Meanwhile, the Hamas soldiers still alive in the tunnels underneath Gaza will be suffocating soon from a lack of fresh air, as there is little fuel left to run the generators necessary for a constant flow of oxygen. Food will be getting rancid and water supplies may be running low. The more than two hundred miles of tunnels will inevitably become a death trap, making life below ground as difficult as it is above.
“Hamas must begin to release the hostages,” the American official said.
Burn Zone has issued a correction as of 20:02 on Nov 5, 2023
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Nov 5, 2023 19:53
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- Burn Zone
- May 22, 2004
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Hamas Press release, bold for emphasis
Hamas posted:
⭕️ ⭕️ We call on the UN Secretary-General António Guterres to form an international committee to visit the Gaza Strip's hospitals to verify the occupation’s false narrative about using them as hideouts..
- What the spokesman of the Zionist occupation army claimed in his press conference is nothing but lies and blatant fabrications.
- He tried to justify their threat to target the Indonesian Hospital and the Qatari Hospital in the northern Gaza Strip, by saying that Hamas had built tunnels under them and was using them as a cover to launch rockets. This is nothing but a lie to justify their ongoing crimes against civilians and against the wounded and patients in the Gaza hospitals.
- His claims about a tunnel in the Indonesian hospital are nothing but a lie. In fact, there is a room that was dug and built for the hospital's fuel store, and the engineering maps and pictures prove this.
- Also, his claim about a tunnel in Hamad Hospital is another fabrication. There is a room under the hospital being used for pumps and electricity generators.
- What exposes the lies of the Israeli army spokesman is their targeting of more than 100 hospitals and medical centers, which led to the termination of the services of around 16 hospitals due to the Israeli strikes, not to mention the massacre they committed in the Baptist Hospital, and left hundreds of victims.
- All international institutions and media outlets that investigated the incident denied the Israeli narrative about the massacre after they claimed that a Palestinian missile fell on the hospital. We emphasize that all hospitals are open to journalists and international institutions to visit and inspect throughout the day.
- The claim of the Israeli army's spokesman that Hamas steals fuel is also fake which was categorically denied by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA). All international institutions know the quantities of fuel that enter hospitals in Gaza, and they are calculated in liters. They also know the time periods during which these quantities are run out. This is what prompted the United Nations, the World Health Organization, and many bodies to seriously warn against running out of fuel which may cause an unprecedent disaster in the health sector.
- The claim that the Israeli Nazi army targeted shelter centers in internationally protected schools after phoning the concerned administrations was also proof of impudence, ugliness, and sadism. These neo-Nazis destroyed about a quarter of a million housing units and displaced their residents, including families and children before targeting them again in the schools they sheltered in. This took place in Al-Mabadi School massacre, the Osama Bin Zaid School massacre, and the Al-Fakhoura School massacre.
- We affirm that we will continue our commitment to defend our people and their national aspirations and we will spare no effort to continue our legitimate struggle against this ugly and arrogant occupation. We do remember the remarks of the former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin who once said: I would like to wake up one day and see Gaza entirely swallowed by the sea. We tell them that the sands of Gaza will swallow you and will be a graveyard for you and your army.
Islamic Resistance Movement - Hamas
Nov 5, 2023
Official website - Hamas movement
https://t.me/+kUoQCMfm8bI1NWE0
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Nov 5, 2023 20:40
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May 21, 2024 07:27
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May 13, 2021 18:15
