Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Piell posted:

If you look at the top right, you can see the other members of their team are furries.

I'm pretty sure those are halloween costumes? The one in the middle of the right side team looks like a fursuit hat, but the others don't. They just look like they're not taking this seriously, which is the right play.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S
Hey guys, is there a summary of what's going on with Zak, with some detail about what Mearls did and why his statement was insufficient? I'm going to try to convince my group to stop playing D&D, and I'm not confident in my own ability to explain the situation.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S
Thanks for the help everyone, I really appreciate it.

Lynx Winters posted:

You already got some helpful answers so I'm just going to add that by through with this, you should be ready to find out which of your friends are perfectly fine with supporting abusive folks and their enablers as long as it's not happening to anyone they know. I'm not saying you shouldn't tell people what happened, I just telling you to get ready to deal with that.

Yeah, I know. I'm already kinda disappointed in our DM, who bought into D&D so hard that he's kinda unwilling to run anything else. Hopefully the rest of my friends will be more willing to join me in dropping the product like the toxic waste it is.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Impermanent posted:

Also, uh, if you've already bought D&D 5e you aren't exactly contributing materially to zak or mearls in any way shape or form by continuing to use it, unless you encourage other people to buy it. A boycott is designed to exert economic pressure by deliberately targeting the purchase of a given product. And you should by all means discourage the continued purchasing of D&D stuff. But as far as anything that's been bought already, that damage is done.

Oh, I know. I recognize that the damage is done, but there's still value in pulling my group away from a toxic product and towards games that don't have a gross history attached to them.

E: And yeah, I plan on emphasizing that we definitely shouldn't buy new D&D content as it gets released, because that's more active support for the product.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Finster Dexter posted:

That duck loving owns


Also, what is the deal with RPGPundit? Is he a sex pest or something? I'm not familiar with him but am curious since people here seem to hate him.

I spent 30 seconds checking out his twitter, and I can confidently say: dude's a chud.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Nuns with Guns posted:

Looks like there was some valid discontent on twitter about the success of the Critical Role kickstarter feeding back into what's already the most successful and pervasive tabletop RPG, so the writer for the campaign setting, James Haeck, started a twitter thread and promoted a hashtag for people to support diverse/indie games:

https://twitter.com/jamesjhaeck/status/1102946733074472960

Matt Mercer retweeted it for promotion and stuff, too.

I like how he didn't even try to exclude D&D content.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Elephant Parade posted:

I mean, indie D&D modules are a thing. I'm not sure why he'd want to exclude them.

Nuns with Guns posted:

discontent on twitter about the success of the Critical Role kickstarter feeding back into what's already the most successful and pervasive tabletop RPG

This is why.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Elephant Parade posted:

Fair enough, I guess, but I'd rather not exclude indie creators just because they've chosen the largest possible marketplace to sell their wares in

Nine times out of ten, I'm with you all the way. I just think that, given the context of the backlash specifically relating to the fact that it's D&D, maybe they should be trying to draw attention to games and modules that have nothing to do with D&D?

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S
For what it's worth, the two most recent episodes are not on the Geek and Sundry YouTube channel. They're only on the Critical Role channel

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

thespaceinvader posted:

That I had not noticed, because I usually get them through youtube recs rather than subscriptions because both channels shove a lot of gumf I don't care about into my subscriptions.

It explains why I haven't seen the new episodes show up. I only followed the show through the G&S playlist.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Arthil posted:

Only costs money for the DM, players can use the demo/free version.

That's only if the host pays out for the expensive version.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

BattleMaster posted:

Maybe there will be a well-considered 5.5E or 6E that takes into the huge number of play experience that it has gotten as the most popular D&D edition ever? Probably not.

The best thing WotC could do right now (for their TTRPG efforts, anyway) is fire Mearls and have his replacement start working on 6E.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Jimbozig posted:

Some people are saying don't blame D&D for its bad players. Other people are saying don't blame players for D&D's bad design.

I just wanna know: should I hate the player or hate the game?

It depends. If the player is being intransigent and refusing to play anything else, it's reasonable to blame the player. In most cases, though, you should blame the game.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

moths posted:

The thing is that INT has in-game benchmarks so it doesn't matter how a character meets them. It's irrelevant whether they studied real hard, have a natural affinity for jamming spells in their skull, preternatural cognition, improvised quickly, or whatever.

It's an abstraction, just like all the other attributes. STR doesn't differentiate between core strength, upper body, or leg day. If you can bend bars / lift gates at X percentage, you have Y Strength.

If you can learn X bonus spells, you have Y Intelligence.

Then maybe the Intelligence stat should be updated to reflect that it's magical ability being quantified, not intelligence.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Admiral Joeslop posted:

It gets some people into the hobby of 5th Edition DnD specifically. It's another Brand that people can rally behind and shutdown discussion of the bad parts because they like it.

It's absolutely 100% a positive for 5e. I'm not convinced it's a positive for the industry.

By contrast, The Adventure Zone actually is good for the industry. It started with the popular game, realized it wasn't working for them then moved onto something else that worked much better

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

PST posted:

The adventure zone is 4 white guys who absolutely could be featuring more guests, and only does 'better' because they've switched systems. While I absolutely think Critical Role could/should have branched out into some other games on their channel by this point, to have better representation, they've had vastly more non-white-male cast and guests than TAZ, even if they're still just playing lovely D&D (which we criticise more than just about anywhere else on the net, obviously we're all right because we're super smart bodybuilders with kickboxing girlfriends from Canada, but it's still the most popular tabletop rpg out there).


Albeit i'm a Brit but my awareness of Wendy's was a burger chain that had a social media team that were seemingly encouraged to be less corporate, more casual, which is still obviously branding and appealing to a demographic, but until this blew up, I had no idea about the broader issues.

Should they have done better research, absolutely, but there were a load of people responding on the point of 'it's crazy that this huge corporation wants to sponsor an rpg game stream'. So I do think they should have done better, but this isn't a case of them being horrific people. Misguided, short-sighted, sure, but not 'and now they're the worst'.

The Adventure Zone is also literally a family. They're not just a friend group or something, it's three brothers and their father, and a spinoff of another show which is just the three brothers that is literally titled "My Brother, My Brother, and Me"

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

PST posted:

And crit role is a group of friends who started playing together and then got asked to turn it into a stream, but they still get the 'why have they not gotten rid of some of them and added other people'. And they have had way, way more minority guests than TAZ.

There's some bullshit going on when one group of gamers who have become popular get criticised for representation, when another less diverse group of gamers are lauded for doing more for the hobby just because they switched to a different system to play.

You're conflating two separate issues, and not giving any leeway to the group that is literally a family playing games together. TAZ could be better about representation, absolutely, and on that front I don't have a real beef with Critical Role; they have minority guests on all the time, and that is undeniably a good thing.

Less good is that Critical Role is a D&D group that very rarely plays something that isn't D&D. They're also basically paid by WotC to play D&D through their D&D Beyond sponsorship, which makes that even worse. At least TAZ experimented with other games and settled on a non-D&D game when season 2 came around.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Toshimo posted:

Are you sure about that?

I don't know the exact details of the sponsorship, but they open every show by saying they're sponsored by D&D Beyond and play an animated advertisement for it, so I mean, I guess? Maybe?

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Toshimo posted:

But, Amazon owns D&DB, not WotC?

Amazon actually owns it? Like, it isn't just hosted in AWS or something, Amazon actually went to WotC to license the D&D name to make the product?

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Toshimo posted:

Ok, I was a little off, but D&D Beyond was owned by Curse and got bought out by Wikia, so now they are Wikia. (I thought Wikia was owned by Amazon, but they are not.) But, yes, D&D Beyond just licences the brand from WotC.

Okay, fair, I didn't know that. I should have known that WotC would never put in the resources to create something like D&D Beyond, that was silly of me.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

moths posted:

There's only one fill-in-the blank (that I got) so don't go in expecting to tell them anything useful or helpful.

A "Why do you say that?" fill in the blank after getting the multiple-choice option to say you will not recommend D&D to your friends seems like a decent chance to yell at them to fire Mike Mearls.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Arivia posted:

Huh I never got a section on third-party supplements.

One (two?) of the "what D&D products did you buy? (check all that apply)" had third-party supplements and mentioned Pathfinder.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S
I just looked up those cards, that's a $300 forest and a $500 island. Basic lands.

What the gently caress?

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Arivia posted:

I’m speaking in general. You know as well as I do that the cost of buying into any format (including Pauper, Standard, and Pioneer) is all greatly inflated by the secondary market, and Wizards has shown no appetite to stop that and is in fact continuing to feed it.

Yes, you can play Magic with a bunch of penny lands. But the particular culture that has lead to valuable basic lands being worth hundreds is worth explaining to people who don’t know about it.

I guess I forgot about alternate art versions of cards being more expensive, because my brain just refuses to accept that a basic land could cost money, even recognizing that there are cards out there that are expensive as hell.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S
Anyway, let's get back to the important part of the conversation: WotC backed down, apparently.

https://twitter.com/AutumnLilyMTG/status/1193235842363482112

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

BENGHAZI 2 posted:

Halfway, because calling out Terese Nielsen for being a shithead was half of it

Right, yeah, that's definitely part of it.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Brother Entropy posted:

what happened with mearls and twitter?

Basically, it came out that Zak was a rapist and domestic abuser in addition to the various bad things that everyone knew he was. Mike Mearls posted a terrible tweet about it:
https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/1095486649977384960

Given Mearls's history (as described by NachtSieger above), that didn't go over well. So Mike Mearls basically stopped tweeting entirely after posting that, probably on the advice of his employers.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

moths posted:

Is it that fandom thing where nobody badmouths the big guy?

I think the relative obscurity of Mearls's involvement probably has more to do with the breadth and depth of Zak's bullshit. He was doing it before Mearls brought him on, after all, and there are a ton of people who defended him over the years.

Mearls should absolutely be fired for it, though, gently caress him.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

DalaranJ posted:

He’s the person the keep bringing on for articles to give quotes from the Hasbro side,so I think it’s pretty clear that his new job is brand manager or whatever they call that at Hasbro.

Which would explain why he didn't update his linkedin, too.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Nuns with Guns posted:

D&D 5e does have a massive amount of support and premade tools and all sorts of handy stuff to make it supremely playable on roll20 though. Like, there's still no official way to get digital books outside of the ones on the roll20 platform for 5e are there?

You can pick up the digital books on Fantasy Grounds, too, but that's probably even less convenient than reading them through Roll20.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Meinberg posted:

Matt Mercer is probably the person who is not a full time employee at Hasbro that has the most influence over Mike Mearls’ employment. Critical Role is vital to the D&D brand at this point in time. Mercer stance on Mearls’ continual employment has been to wring his hands and go “pity me” rather than taking a financially risky (not that risky) but morally sound position.

Is this seriously what that tweet is about? How cowardly and pathetic.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Meinberg posted:

It’s not absolutely clear, but the timing of it all seems to indicate that it is the case.

If that's the case, it's actually worse than just saying nothing.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Mr. Maltose posted:

Won’t somebody think of the poor straight white dude, he’s really suffering here.

Just the idea that he might actually do something to make the game he loves more safe and inclusive for his LGBTQ guests and friends is too much, sorry, he can't handle it.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

The Gate posted:

Do we have any proof of anything that CR has some massive influence on the DnD brand? Like, they've got a couple sourcebooks, because the show is crazy successful, but that somehow translating into any sort of other influence on anything else in the company seems really unlikely to me. But I'm not a TG insider, so maybe there's something I'm missing.

Also, while it's fair to say Matt Mercer hasn't used his influence to try and oust Mearls, CR does also run tons of fundraising for charities, and they're vocal about being inclusive in an industry that, as this thread points out often, is bad about inclusion. I dunno what kinda math people do to decide who's good and bad in the industry, but I'd suggest that CR has done more positive stuff for the hobby overall than negative by quite a lot.

Also, a lot of their side games are really fun and good, the PbtA one was fairly off, and Matt addressed his mistakes on it afterwards as well.

I guess here's the actual question we should be asking. We know Critical Role is extremely successful, they have sourcebooks, an Amazon Prime cartoon, and a comic book, all based on an online streaming show. But how successful is that, really? Certainly successful enough to get them a ton of money, but is their popularity at a large enough scale that they could noticeably harm WotC's reputation, or even just D&D specifically? If they could noticeably harm the product line's reputation, that would harm its profit margins for the product. I don't actually know the answer to this question. I think the answer is actually yes, but D&D is such a small line item as it is that it's kinda hard to say.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

BattleMaster posted:

It's a cute way of saying that each of those things has exactly one product devoted to it. 5E hasn't exactly had an abundance of releases but I'm not sure one product means they have significant clout.

Mearls is garbage but I'm not sure if Critical Roll or any of the other people behind any of the other licensed products has any ability to get him fired

Mercer couldn't just call up Mearls's boss and get him fired, but if the crew actually leveraged their influence through the show, they could probably get a big enough outcry to make it happen. E: Of course, as Dexo said earlier in the thread, this would burn some bridges.

King of Solomon fucked around with this message at 03:22 on May 25, 2020

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

admanb posted:

That makes way more sense than anything this thread has brought up.

He vagueposted and the timing is extremely suspect. :shrug:

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S
The idea that you can fix the problems in the industry without firing people like Bulmahn AND Mearls is absurd. You need to do much more than that, but any solution that doesn't involve firing someone like Mearls is not sufficient.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

paradoxGentleman posted:

Well, gently caress.
I take back my optimistic take. Should've known better.

Any statement that doesn't include the phrase "and we've fired Mike Mearls" in some fashion may as well be nothing. DC's just repeating what the thread has been saying, just with some extra internal experience.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

moths posted:

It says it costs $10 though so

It normally does. Right now they're manually approving everyone though. Don't expect a quick approval, they're getting slammed and only have like 3 people doing approvals.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S
Setting aside DTAS for a second, why not just associate ability score bonuses with class and give races features instead (i.e. flight, fire breath, etc.)?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply