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Holy crap it's back! Okay, time to get some stuff off my chest, there are some comments on a few of these chapters I've wanted to make for years: Hellscreaming Mad: I really don't know why the enemies in this mission are white. It's absolutely supposed to be the Laughing Skull clan you're fighting. As for the prisoners, I think they're supposed to be more Warsong Orcs, but since Grom is already red, and they like giving Heroes their own unique color, they went with the closest, being orange. Which, incidentally, is at this point the Bleeding Hollow's colors as of BTDP's clan-color-scheme. That's right, the Bleeding Hollow Clan is the only clan to be represented by TWO different colors within Warcraft 2! Fat Jokes: Yeah, nothing much to say here. Hellscream coming in to kill Hurkan is accurate, too. Love the touch of adding the cape and hat to the grunt you start with to turn it into Nigel. Clan Pinecone: Again, nothing much to say. Can Love Bloom on the Battlefield: To be specific, I believe Danath is Thoras' nephew. The Knight in Yellow: I won't lie, on this mission I basically wall my base in with towers because of those goddamn paladins. They will sprint across the goddamn map through the valley of death itself trying to get at Teron to Exorcism his rear end. It's madness. Also, that purple base? It starts the map with literally nothing but a town hall and a single peasant. Early aggression is REWARDED on this map, and yes they absolutely will build into an actual threat. Deathwing's Death Wagon Death March: Fun fact, this game was written well before the Dragonflights as we know them even existed. There was no "Black Dragonflight", there were just dragons, and their queen. Deathwing was described as black merely to differentiate him. In fact, this is STILL the case in the cancelled "Lord of the Clans" game, which portrayed Alexstrasza as a more typical dragon, somewhat cruel and quite hostile, while Deathwing is portrayed as "her rebellious son" who wants to overthrow her. Also, the AI is absolutely NOT passive on this map, and the fact that they never attacked you is beyond confusing to me. Purple generally spams gryphons on this map while Blue hits you with standard land-based attack forces. Ballistas, archers, knights, etc. The Revenge of Necksmasher: Yeah, those gryphons suck. And it wasn't until I saw someone else playing the mission just recently that I thought to myself "WHY IN ALL MY YEARS DID I NEVER THINK TO MURDER TEAL FIRST?!?" Also, as a small nitpick, Death Knights wield purely Necromantic powers, not Fel magic. It's basically the only reason Doomhammer accepted them at all and didn't just re-kill them all.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:16
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Also, a fun fact about Mogor: while the Mogor that Nigel dealt with (it can be suggested that he's the lone ogre hanging with the Death Knights at the end of that first orc map, but as he doesn't have his own unit, no one can say for sure) did indeed have his death witnessed by WoW players... Much as I hesitate to bring up more WoW lore, in the recent Warlords of Draenor expansion, which saw players travel to an alternate version of Draenor set before the invasion of Azeroth of the First War, players can find a younger Mogor, not yet in charge of the Laughing Skulls... and with a single head. From this, we can infer that he was likely one of the Ogres that went through Gul'dan's ritual using the stolen Runestone of Caer Darrow (see the Tides of Darkness LP!), thus gaining a second head in the process, one of the effects of that ritual upon normal, single-headed ogres. If anyone wants me to edit or spoiler any of this out, please let me know and I will do so. I don't think it really spoils anything we'll see in the LP though, but let's see what the people say.
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Apr 22, 2018 11:47
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When I was a kid, my dad had Warcraft 2. I remember seeing him try to play it a few times, but I honestly don't remember how much he actually played it. It was my first Blizzard game, and I got hooked, both on the game, and the stories in the manuals. I didn't read the backstory so much at the time, but I loved the unit descriptions and stuff. I got hooked on the lore, and eventually did read through the story. We eventually got a copy of the expansion, and Warcraft 1, though because I'd started with Warcraft 2, I didn't get nearly so good a grip of playing Warcraft 1. The limitations chafed after starting with the much more user-friendly Warcraft 2. Of course, being the huge Warcraft nerd that I am/was, I had to get the novels when they came out, and Warcraft 3... basically I've been a Warcraft addict ever since, and still play WoW to this day. I've taken occasional breaks, but I have no real plans to leave; many of my friends play the game, but many also don't, and it hasn't really hurt my social life outside the game. Even without WoW, my social life is primarily online, even with my IRL friends. But being as big into the lore as I am in WoW, and the way my decently creative brain works, and me playing on a roleplaying server... well, let's just say I think I was destined to have an enormous cast of characters floating around my brain. I remain quite happily addicted to WoW, and I eagerly await the release of Battle for Azeroth. Many people talk about how much they hate certain aspects of gameplay, or how much they hate how the story is written... and I can honestly say that I don't always see it. My mind tends to overlook or ignore the negative aspects of the media I'm enjoying. I focus on what I liked about it. I rationalize what's happening. My brain doesn't ask "why did they write that character that way". My brain looks at it as "Why did that character behave that way?" It honestly makes it a lot easier for me to enjoy what I enjoy, simply because I'm not always picking it apart to find what I don't like about it. Even when I attempt to, I actively find it difficult to do. I enjoy it, why can't I just leave it at that?
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Apr 22, 2018 21:10
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I haven't heard anything about Trolls walking upright, nor have I seen any evidence of it in the alpha/beta. Take that with a grain of salt until Blizzard adds it. I have to admit, I am curious as to what exactly becomes of the Book of Medivh after that whole scenario where Warlocks obtain it - after we get a hold of it, it's mentioned that we're carrying the book a few times during the questchain, but what happens to it is never clarified. Are we STILL carrying it? Did we leave it behind? Did we or one of our minions deliver it to the Kirin Tor offscreen?
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Apr 25, 2018 20:42
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Honestly, I don't like Turtles/Subs myself. I'd rather just bring a zeppelin along to spot their subs.achtungnight posted:Just think if you bother to scout the blue enemy base and expose their Gold Mine how impressive it will be when you eventually take it, given that the computer doesn't start draining Gold Mines till they're exposed from the black... This is a mission that teaches you to do more with less in a serious way. Bolded section is absolutely not true. I've had plenty an AI drain their goldmine dry before *EVER* scouting it out. And in one or two cases, before ever even seeing any of their units.
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Apr 28, 2018 21:35
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THE BAR posted:Don't they only take 10 gold for every 100 gained, until they're revealed? While true for Warcraft 1 (there's still a video linked in the old WC1 LP that shows the AI taking only 5 gold per trip from the mine while it's unrevealed), this is not true for Warcraft 2. Even while unrevealed, the AI takes 100 gold out of the mine per trip. If you've got an active AI enemy, and you want to steal their gold mine, you best be prepared! One little quirk some people like to exploit on these maps, if they're willing to take long enough, is how the AI behaves once the gold mine in their base runs dry. They will begin to attempt long-distance mining from the next closest mine, regardless of the dangers in the way. So, if you know what Gold Mine is their next target, you can place some defenses around it, and slaughter their defenseless workers mercilessly, and the AI will keep dumping their gold into making more workers to try and long-distance mine that gold. With patience, this can be kept up until their gold runs out entirely, leaving them ripe for the picking. This simply takes an eternity and a half, which is where that "patience" comes into play.
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Apr 29, 2018 19:23
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achtungnight posted:Note how in our most recent map the Gold Island had defenders but no Town Hall and we have to knock down Human buildings to get space for our Hall. This means the Mine is meant for the player. The AI isn’t smart enough that I’ve seen to knock down its own structures or use Transports to aid Gold Mining (I don’t think it is anyway), so we’ll probably get that Gold before they do even if they run out. I honestly don't think the Warcraft 2 AI knows how to expand, or use transports to mine from an island-goldmine. At best, if they lose their main base they might build near another gold mine elsewhere, but actually building an EXTRA base there is, I think, beyond what they're capable of - or at the very least programmed to do in the campaigns.
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Apr 30, 2018 20:49
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achtungnight posted:When I first bought BtDP, all the manual said about Deathwing was that he was a super-tough black Dragon with armor plating grafted to his body. Nothing about demons, old gods, or impersonation of human nobility. That all came later. I honestly have mixed feelings about it. I like the ideas, but can’t say I completely approve of every plot twist. Honestly, the BTDP manual was before the different dragonflights even existed yet, in lore. Even the cancelled "Lord of the Clans" game with Thrall didn't feature that little twist of lore yet, instead depicting Alexstrasza as merely a dragonqueen, and not some ultra-powerful "Aspect of Life", and Neltharion actually being depicted as her unruly son, instead of effectively her sibling, and leader of his own flight. Deathwing may have been powerful, but he also knew the value of working behind the scenes instead of out in the open. Strong as he was, he kinda didn't want to fight the entire world all at once again.
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May 2, 2018 16:23
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Coincidentally, several of the characters from the book that MADE them more than beasts have also been killed off. Rhonin and Krasus, to be specific. Falstad and Vereesa are still around though.
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May 2, 2018 16:43
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Fun fact: At some point in the briefings of the last two missions, it's stated that Kul Tiras had left the Alliance, and no longer had the support of their armies. This was retconned in Chronicles, as they didn't actually leave the Alliance until after... certain events in Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne, while I'll put behind a spoiler tag. Specifically, after Daelin's death in Rexxar's campaign - Kul Tiras was furious and wanted vengeance, but the rest of the Alliance weren't interested, and in fact had little sympathy for the Admiral, as he'd led a war of aggression on his own authority, presumably without consulting the rest of the Alliance. So Kul Tiras quietly left the Alliance, and focused their hatred on Jaina for having betrayed her father.
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May 9, 2018 20:30
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At the very least Kul Tiras' current position (as of BFA) can be handwaved by Deathwing breaking the world shifting it further out to sea.
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May 10, 2018 21:14
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Gnooble posted:I practiced speed cheating to save Lothar. I think I actually saved him once - but here's the weird thing. Despite him being on the map as an Allied unit (meaning he should be rescuable), you actually can't take control of him. This is something that normally happens when an active rescuable player builds units or structures of their own - these AI-produced units can only be controlled by taking control of their (starting) Town Hall, which gives you all of that player's units and structures. In a custom map, active rescuable players who do not start with a town hall must be killed off to win, as you cannot take control of anything they built themselves, including the Town Hall that would otherwise grant you all of that player's stuff. And in custom maps, the objective is always to be the only active player remaining on the map, including allies. --- But yeah, Elf lady fits in just fine.
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May 18, 2018 21:03
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Actually, ever since patch 7.3.5, all old-world content scales up to level 60, now. They spread out Legion's level-scaling system to ALL previous expansion content, so it levels with you; helps prevent you from outlevelling a zone too fast so you can actually go through the entire zone's questline without the quests going grey halfway through. It's honestly really nice. They also slowed down levelling a bit by increasing exp needed (by how much depends on where you are in the levelling), and some people are butthurt over that, but levelling can actually be enjoyable again, instead of a brainless grind.
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May 24, 2018 18:16
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Goddamn man, all these custom sprites. Much love. Also yeah, this mission exemplifies what I mean about Paladins and Exorcism. That mission taking down Nethergarde, I would build a solid wall of towers around most of the perimeter of my base, and blue's paladins would start charging in groups, running through the valley of death itself to get within exorcism range of Teron in that mission. He is actively a liability in every mission he attends, except the very last (simply because the heroes are not required to survive the final level of either campaign). Though one note: Raise Dead, while not terribly strong, can be used to bait out some of the Paladins' mana by sending them within Exorcism range.
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May 27, 2018 21:10
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Azzur posted:I mean, everyone remember Med'an? (Med'aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan! This is actually arguably not true anymore! With the release of Warcraft Chronicles Volume 3, which covers from the aftermath of Warcraft 2 up until the end of Cataclysm, Med'an is not mentioned anywhere, and events that should have involved him don't make any mention of him. Okay, I lied. He does get mentioned once. In the index, if you look up Med'an, he's listed as being on page... 404? Did I mention these books are only about 200 pages long? Yeah, that's right, Blizzard actually retconned Med'an out of canon because he was THAT BAD.
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May 30, 2018 20:07
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...I guess he's still mostly canon.)
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Alpha3KV posted:Doing the ogre-mage upgrade actually does turn the knights you get in this mission to paladins, but without a church you can't teach them any spells other than the holy vision they get automatically. That's a good way to explore the map and check on the enemy bases, at least. Still a bit disappointing that you can't get healing from them. If nothing else, it means you're not under heavy pressure to preserve them long enough to GET healing. They're expendable, just as if you'd started off with a bunch of ogres.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:28
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While I can't say too much because I've been avoiding stuff, BFA is going to start with open warfare and one major capital city per faction getting wiped off the map. Like, completely destroyed. The Horde will then head for Zandalar, while the Alliance heads for Kul'tiras, in both cases looking to recruit them into their faction and gain access to their Navies. But both the Zandalari, and Kul'tiras have problems of their own, because we need leveling content. Zandalari has rapidly gone from the most powerful Troll kingdom left to barely being able to handle problems within their own borders, while Kul'tiras is having all sorts of issues of their own; they left the Alliance after Rexxar killed Daelin in WC3 because literally everyone else in the Alliance refused to help them go take revenge, feeling that Daelin kinda brought it on himself. But Kul'tiras doesn't hate the Alliance, they hate Jaina for betraying her father. I think G'huun is the accidental result of some failed experiment by Titans to figure out how to remove Old Gods from the planet without killing the Planet. Cause the last time they tried to remove an Old God from the planet, it left an enormous gaping wound in the planet that would go on to become the Well of Eternity. Those Arcane waters are basically Titan Blood. --- As for Alterac, things went pretty far south for them from here on out. And by that I mean Alterac basically ceased to exist as a kingdom after this due to further retribution by Stromgarde and Lordaeron. Without a king, anarchy descended upon the kingdom, and it dissolved over time, with territory being claimed by Ogres, the Frostwolf Clan of Orcs, the Stormpike Dwarves, and the Syndicate formed from the remnants of the Alterac Nobility. Fun fact, while the Alterac Mountains themselves used to be their own zone in Vanilla WoW, they were basically combined as a subzone of the Hillsbrad Foothills when Cataclysm revamped the map, further striking the name of Alterac from the modern World (of Warcraft).
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Jun 6, 2018 21:30
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Fun fact, Legion revealed that there was another very important factor in the crumbling of Stromgarde. Death Knights resurrect Thoras Trollbane himself, former King of Stromgarde, to join a new Four Horsemen, and he reveals that Galen, his son, was the one who murdered him.
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Jun 7, 2018 21:29
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Xanderkish posted:having the human protagonist in the expansion kill himself as his forces were about to be overwhelmed by a massive alien force ...DuGalle? ...Kiiiinda stretching the "protagonist" term there. I mean... well actually I guess not. Protagonist does refer to leading character of the story, not necessarily the good guy...
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Jun 8, 2018 07:30
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PurpleXVI posted:So wait, the Warcraft movie is canon? To be perfectly honest, that's not exactly all that different from female orcs in WoW.
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Jun 8, 2018 20:50
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After these last few posts, just about everything about Nigel suddenly makes so much more sense...
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Jun 17, 2018 01:59
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McTimmy posted:It was simply retconned to have always been Stormwind despite, well... Part of it was also the fact that "Azeroth" was originally the name of the country, but Blizzard ended up using it as the name of the planet, instead. And they didn't want to have the country and the planet share the name.
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Jun 20, 2018 20:05
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Azzur posted:Okay, I also have no idea what the start of the world is now. There's... like, a sword in it? poo poo, man. Blizz get your poo poo together. I'm drunk and just tappin' at a keyboard. You can do this with a small group of writers who aren't phoning it in. Remember how The Titans are giant planet-sized deities unless they choose to take on a smaller form to interact with people or whatever? Yeah, Sargeras is one of those planet-sized deities. The rest of the Pantheon was finally able to pull themselves together and reign his rear end in and contain him, but he just had to get the last word in before getting contained, and pulled out his fuckhuge sword and stabbed the planet with it just as he was being pulled away. The result is the bigass sword stuck in the planet, and in the pre-expansion events, we're going to be using the Artifact weapons we've been powering up all expansion to contain the corruption in the sword, and stabilize the wound so Azeroth doesn't die.
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Jun 21, 2018 20:37
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McTimmy posted:The greatest thing about Star Wars: The Old Republic is having a sail barge mount complete with a hovering grape tray. It gave me a sci-fi MMO and let me play as a catman dualwielding pistols. I enjoyed it. Though to be honest, I did kinda treat it more as a singleplayer game than an MMO.
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Jun 22, 2018 21:29
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GhostStalker posted:Seeing as how they're apparently led by Alleria, who is pretty much the only High Elf hero still loyal to the Alliance (save maybe her sister who is, last I checked, one of the Archmages leading the Kirin Tor in Dalaran), High Command probably just took a look at who was leading them and shrugged. Vereesa is not a mage. Her husband was, but she's not. At this point, she's simply the leader of the largest remaining faction of High Elves, the Silver Covenant.
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Jun 24, 2018 18:36
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The Fat Swordsman posted:I think Azzur doesn't have enough gold to build (another?) great hall? I didn't see it while reading through at the time, but that's absolutely it.
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Jul 4, 2018 05:30
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achtungnight posted:I thought there was an annoyed Orc line “stop poking me!” Or was that Warcraft 1? I think that's actually the Peon from Warcraft 3?
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Jul 11, 2018 20:49
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Alpha3KV posted:It did come from WC1, as linked a few posts ago. The WC3 Grunt's annoyed lines call back to it. Also, only the Grunt and Catapult share the standard ready line. Ships have their own lines, which seem to have been forgotten: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYzjfSCylxQ ...Holy crap, how did I do that. When I made that post, I was thinking of a completely different line. Like, doesn't even include the word "poking" different line.
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Jul 13, 2018 19:18
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...He speaks... But yes, the AI's insistence on building a Great Hall there is quite entertaining. The big thing to remember about peon slaughter is that once their primary mine runs out, they'll start sending peons en masse toward the next closest mine... regardless of how far away it actually is, and how well-defended. They might attack those defenses occasionally, but only because of standard "Attack the player" AI priorities, not out of any desire to protect their workers. And the peons will just keep coming, so long as they have gold to make them with...
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Aug 4, 2018 20:43
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Darth TNT posted:I've been having a hankering to play 5 lately. I just want to finish some unfinished business first. Having played the fully-patched version on Steam a couple times, I actually went back at one point and managed to find a version of it online from a disc image so I could play it unpatched. One big reason being the way the expansions *COMPLETELY* overhauled the necromancy system. But... I feel like we're getting a bit off-topic here.
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Aug 8, 2018 20:54
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Cythereal posted:Not relevant till WoW, I'd think. Even then the arrakoa in TBC were mostly just a minor race of mooks with spooky evil bird stuff. The lost civilization with spaceships and lasers and battle mechs wasn't a thing until Warlords. Parts of their backstory are relevant during the Draenei Genocide, but I won't get into that in this post. As an aside, it's kind of obvious, but each "generation" as it were of Draenor De/Evolution from Gronn down to Orcs was smaller, weaker, but also smarter. When Orcs started mastering Shamanism, the Ogre Empire took notice. They decided they wanted this power, but tried to brute-force it. Their efforts caused a lot of really bad poo poo to go down, so all the Orc Clans came together as the Horde for the first time ever, and laid siege to the Ogres' capital of Goria. When the battle took a turn for the worse, the Shamans of all the clans came together and did something unprecedented and huge: Together, all together, they convinced the Elements (not incorrectly) that if the Ogres weren't dealt with, poo poo would get way worse in their efforts to control the elements. So the ground underneath Goria (yes, the entire goddamn city) opened up and swallowed the entire city. There was literally no evidence that the Ogre Capital had ever been there at all. When the Draenei eventually arrived, they were astounded that no one had settled that area before them, and the city of Shattrath was created in the very spot where Goria once stood.
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Aug 11, 2018 19:30
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For reference - that disease the Ogres unleashed? The Red Pox mentioned so often in Orc lore. Gul'dan used it to weaken the clans to convince them to unite against the Draenei, and then later weaponized it as a red mist against the Draenei themselves, devolving them into Broken.Azzur posted:So yeah, then the world sort of ate Goria. Can we talk about this for just a goddamn second? Orcs got so desperate that they combined all their shamans, and asked the world itself to up and destroy Goria entirely. Pretty goddamn ballsy request. But the Ogres were trying to brute-force their research into the Elemental magics of the Orcs using their Arcane magic, and that explosion they caused only made them more determined instead of thinking "okay wow, that didn't work, maybe we should try a different approach". So the elements went "yeah, we can do that, these guys gotta fuckin' stop that poo poo". And like you said, the planet itself just opened up and SWALLOWED it. The destruction was so complete, that when the Draenei arrived a couple centuries later, they believed that no one had ever settled there. They were confused by this, but there was simply no evidence of there ever having been any sort of settlement there. So that's where they built Shattrath.
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Sep 26, 2018 20:18
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If nothing else, we can all be glad that Blizzard officially retconned Med'an out of existence with the Warcraft Chronicles books. I think it's Volume 3 that lists Med'an in the index as being on "Page 404". The book is only around 200 pages.
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Oct 5, 2018 19:45
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Torrannor posted:Let's see how they do it. Changing Stratholme's architecture to be more in line with "modern"/WOW-like human architecture is fine. Some parts of the story and characters have been retconned by WOW and the books anyway, I'm curious if the overall tone of WC3 will be conserved. Well, in the Blizzcon demo of The Culling map, all the original audio was preserved from WC3. The big thing that changed was the layout of the map itself was changed around, the shape and layout of the city was made more like WoW's Stratholme, and Arthas' base is to the south, rather than the northeast. Hard to say what else they might change, but that's the main thing I'm anticipating - redesigned map geography to better match current designs.
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Nov 4, 2018 17:20
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Meatapult? I mean, if they're gonna insist on calling it the wrong name... they already use Death-wagon for catapults, so...
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Nov 7, 2018 20:42
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Another option, if you still have a good supply of Destroyers alive, is to try to lure Deathwing into THEM. Deathwing or no, Destroyers are good at blowing up air units. It's just a matter of trying to avoid him leashing back to his lair in the process, which he tends to do.
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Nov 23, 2018 21:26
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The thing to keep in mind when looking at any Dragon lore in Warcraft 2, is that until the Day of the Dragon novel by Richard Knaak released in 2001, Dragons weren't much more than powerful, intelligent beasts. It was Knaak's novel that basically single-handedly gave us the Dragon lore as we know it today, with the Aspects, and the different Dragonflights. In fact, the cancelled Warcraft Adventures game with Thrall actually portrayed Deathwing as Alexstrasza's unruly, rebellious son, and Thrall is tasked with killing him by Alexstrasza herself, who is portrayed as much more vicious and sinister, as befitting a Dragonqueen who is not an Aspect of Life, but simply the queen of a race of powerful, intelligent beasts. A task he accomplishes. So at this point, anything the Warcraft 2 stuff says about Deathwing and his plates are to be taken with a grain of salt. The original Adamantium armor was indeed created by Goblins, but in the aftermath of the War of the Ancients, not during the Second War, and it was done because his corruption and power were ripping his body apart - the armor was to hold him together, and it was attached by the Drogbar. Eventually, his armor was upgraded and reinforced by the Twilight's Hammer, replacing the Adamantium Steel with Elementium.
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Nov 24, 2018 21:04
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Wrathion is a tragic case of being well-meaning, ambitious, and brilliant as all hell, while simultaneously being naive, impulsive, hot-headed and dumb as bricks. For clarification there, I'm talking sky-high intellect score while his wisdom score is rock bottom. Plus, he doesn't react well when people don't play out according to his plans. Regardless of whether or not they're aware of said plans. His little tantrum when Wrynn decided to call a truce after Garrosh's defeat instead of pushing for domination over the Horde was adorable.
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Nov 30, 2018 12:46
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You know, I honestly don't remember how I usually handle this mission. I probably do just take out the Shattered Hand with my starting forces, though.
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Nov 30, 2018 21:25
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Lynneth posted:Take care of your liver, and tell us everything about the fun you hopefully had. Wait, he still has a liver?
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Dec 23, 2018 19:43
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