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SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021

MegaZeroX posted:

Woops. I guess that says more about how regularly I discard pairs of worthless honor tiles more than anything else.

I rarely keep them for the pair even knowing that rule, because I usually hope to stack-in a tanyao. It's not bad to keep in mind but I think often they can be more useful as discards.

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SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
HELL yes. I've always wanted to try Washizu Mahjong but outside buying a one-use set or messing around in TTS it didn't seem possible. I've heard that it's a pain to play once the novelty wears off but the event doesn't last long anyway.

We had that event with Sichuan Bloody Rules a while back (I think it was the Kakegurui collab), I'm crossing my fingers we get Buu Mahjong eventually.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Does anyone here have experience with the American Riichi League? I'm considering signing up but I'm not sure about the time commitments it's asking for. It sounds like it's 4 South games once every two weeks? Is that correct? Do you get any control over which days those games fall on?

Eeepies posted:

I made Expert on Mahjong Soul!
I'm also in danger of deranking because i just can't keep up with the play, I deal in like 1-2 times per game now compared to adebt and it feels like my sense of danger is much weaker now.
Congrats! If you've never thrown any of your games through an analysis program like Ako-chan, now's the time to do it. It helped me a lot with figuring out some of the tricks to playing efficiently and made a big difference when I made it back to Expert after deranking out. Sometimes you'll have a really rough table with some Masters or EX3s where someone has really unpredictable waits and you just seem to feed everyone else, but if you can get the hang of defensive play and honing your efficiency, you'll do fine. And then there's people who bully you with dama waits on non-value winds with three dora in hand. Such is mahjong.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021

FAT BATMAN posted:

As a matter of fact, yes. You’re assigned people to play with, and then it’s up to you and those 3 other people to figure out when to play.

Oh, awesome! That flexibility makes it a lot easier. Thanks for the info. Now I just need to figure out Tenhou.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
My experience in Gold/Expert is that occasionally I get a very spooky table with players who opt for nasty waits or go dama when there's not an obvious reason to, but most of the tables I get, people are playing more like Silver players and not paying TOO much attention to what other people are doing. I'm starting to get a gut sense for when a tile feels dangerous but I have no chance of putting into words what criteria that's based on, and if someone calls I assume they're ready or have a quick route to ready. I should probably pay attention to where someone discards from but I never remember to.

And then some games it feels like I made the exact wrong decision at every point in the game. Such is mahjong.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
In addition to Kemono Mahjong, if you have a Switch, "Japanese Mah-Jongg" is worth a look if you want a really cheap riichi game (way cheaper than 51 clubhouse games). It's... a weird one, though. The choice of the American variant spelling for the title is odd, the TTS voice for reading yaku is almost impossible to understand, and it uses Chinese terminology for calling/etc. Singleplayer only, but there's a local 2-person multiplayer if you build a makeshift screen and put the Switch flat on the table. All that aside though! It's standard riichi mahjong.

I honestly love it for how weird and janky it is and the fact that it's only five bucks. It's how I learned the basic mechanics of play before jumping into majsoul matches against real people.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021

Bilirubin posted:

I assume south rounds play east then south, so a longer game? Somehow one of my more recent matches in east game rotated into a south round as well, which was weird but ok.

At what point will my stats even out to be interpretable with any meaning? Only 46 games played so far so no statistical power yet for sure.
Correct. Personally I find south games to be less of a scramble for points and more fun overall. Lots more opportunities for strategic thinking. You can take your time and wait for a good hand to come along instead of being forced to settle for cheap hands and risk dealing in with calls.

I think 100 games is the usual benchmark?

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021

Fat Samurai posted:

Should I bother trying to read people's discards at this point (besides playing already discarded tiles when someone has declared Riichi), or should I start by focusing on my hand until I feel comfortable with yakus?
if you notice "dang they haven't discard anything in one suit" then get worried, and if they have a yaku visible (like round/seat wind or dragons) then play defensively against them, but otherwise you can ignore their discards until you're more advanced

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
It really does seem like a universal experience, where you rank up and then immediately get busted back down, but then hold your own once you recover and have learned the skills you need to survive.

Side note - where exactly are the rules for streaming and delays on Majsoul? I know the conventional knowledge is "5 minute delay in Jade and above" but I've never been able to find that rule in the Terms of Service and it's not in the Jade Room rules pop-up. Sometimes delays are mentioned in a news update, but that's it. Is it even still a rule?

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021

Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:

5 minute delay for jade room was removed last august, p sure it exists for higher ranked rooms still
I just checked the information pop-up for Throne room and there's no notice there about streaming either. So as far as I can tell by the rules and ToS actually on the website, there's no delay required for streaming at any level, but that... doesn't make sense.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
ayyyyy congrats Nighthand!

Feels Villeneuve posted:

also how often is it a dumb idea to riichi into someone else's riichi?

Very situational IMO. Major factors at play: value and wait of your hand, your placement, how many tiles it's been since the other riichi, how many other people look like they're ready, whether the dora are visible in the pond or still hiding in hands/walls. i wouldn't push a riichi nomi, but if i had a guaranteed mangan with a decent wait and it's been almost a row of discards since the last riichi? I'll probably throw the stick.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021

Fat Samurai posted:

Specifically, what is a good rule of thumb on wether to chi a tile if a hand looks good for either Chanta or Tanyao?
My experience is that if the call doesn't make me one-away, then i spend way too much time hanging in the wind and nobody takes my hand seriously. Sometimes that works out, like if I have a bunch of dora tucked away, but usually it means someone else beats me to the punch.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Are there any good digital environments that just give you tiles and let you handle rules and playing? TTS is bugged with mahjong tiles in my experience. Reason I ask it, I was talking with someone the other day about the difficulty of getting chanta, and I was curious if there was a digital way to just try out house rules for different yaku values. It started with me wishing chanta was a 3 han closed hand, given how hard it is. We ended up deciding on Honroutou and Chanta each 3 han closed, Junchan being either 6han or a closed-only yakuman, and chinroutou being a double yakuman.

I'm sure there's probably good historical precedent for why the han values are where they are but it REALLY doesn't make sense to me that chanta's only 2 han.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021

dragon enthusiast posted:

Autotable is probably what you're looking for

oh this is exactly what i was looking for, hell yeah. Thanks!

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021

Bilirubin posted:

Thanks! How much different is gold from silver? I know I should switch to South games at that point, but is it otherwise different?

in addition to what everyone else said, don't feel bad if you fall on your face and derank back to adept. it's not unusual at all. pay attention to your own play and your own mistakes and what's different about how you played vs others, and when you get back up to gold room you'll be in fine shape to stay there

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
My experience is that your wait almost always feels obvious to you because you can actually see your hand. Without that information your pond has a lot less information than you'd think

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021

sephiRoth IRA posted:

Do most of you play on tenhou?

Mostly MJS, but I've thought about making a tenhou account for days MJS has maintenance. The language barrier has always spooked me tbh

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
South games aren't the mad scramble for points that East games usually are. There's more room for playing strategically. I find that more interesting, but ymmv.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
my personal rule for chiitoi is only intentionally pursue it if i've got at least four pairs in the first row of discards, preferably five. more often than not i end up in chiitoi by accident, though. i'll be sitting on a bunch of sequential pairs hoping they'll be twin sequences and then the riichi button pops for a yaku i forgot about

KICK BAMA KICK posted:

Thanks, very interesting, and like everything else about riichi, that seems unnecessarily complicated in a fun way.

all the mahjong variants i'm aware of feel that way, like we're playing another family's generations-long house rules for poker or something. which i imagine is not too far off from how we got a lot of the more arcane rules.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Had a game a few weeks ago where I intentionally kan'd to force a four kan draw because of how scary everyone else's hands were looking. Rarely have I felt like such a rude little stinker as I did in that moment.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Not even a Big Dragons? I would have thought with enough games at least one opportunity for that would land in your lap.

Also I'm in the sanma-grind crew for that tabletop too

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Hell yeah, congrats!

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Nadeshiko? I almost always use her, she has really good emotes

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
you get about one free ten-pull a month if you do the five bucks a month and collect all the jade. I just save it all up until there's an event with a rate-up i want

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Yeah you can stack some of those yaku on chiitoi. Some of them are house ruled double yakuman. The compatibility chart is sad to look at: https://riichi.wiki/Chiitoitsu

Lmao too slow

Congrats on the lucky hand though!

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Sanma is wicked fun it turns out. This is the fuckaround mahjong I was missing once I started caring about my four player ranking. Gotta take a break though, I'm a bit burned out from the tablecloth grind.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
I do the five bucks and save jade for rateups/events. I figure, I get at LEAST five bucks of enjoyment out of the site a month, might as well kick back a little as thanks.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
The hit rates are among the worst I know of but at least it's cosmetic only

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Mahjong match han value to rarity challenge 2022 (IMPOSSIBLE)

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
LOVE a late game baiman. Hell loving yeah. What order are the dora indicators? Was east first or did that player upgrade their own pon to a dora kan?

And congrats on the real life game! It's been years since I got a chance to play in person. Hope everyone had fun!

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Hmm? What am I missing? Little dragons+ half flush + seat wind + round wind + four dora?

Edit oh gently caress there's a chanta in there too. And for some reason I thought little dragons didn't stack with the two dragons groups. That pushes it up to natural yakuman right?

SixteenShells fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Sep 12, 2022

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Yeah that's common in AMJ. And I think some of the other Asian variants do it too. I somewhat appreciate it in real life play but it gets awkward if only one person is doing it.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
it's basically PG-13 compared to that one kaavi swimsuit skin

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Toitoi turbo mode

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
One of my absolute favorite things about this game is getting to be a little stinker and cut off a juicy limit hand with an open tanyao.

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Placement scoring is one spot where MJS just hides a lot of the calculation from you unless you go poking around. There's several steps. First you calculate your "end score":

quote:

End score = ((End points + Oka - Target)/1000) + Uma
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_mahjong_scoring_rules#Final_points_and_place
Oka is kind of like a "buy-in" - it's like if you started the game with 30k points but had to pay 5k to play. That's why someone who finishes 3rd with 25k still loses placement points. First place keeps the 20,000 points that everyone forfeited as oka. Here's a plot:


Then you add the "Rank Bonus", which varies depending on the room you play in and your current rank. For Gold room Four player South games, it's: [80/40/0/variable]. An Expert 1 player has a 4th place penalty of -40/-80 (I THINK the higher value is what you get if you place fourth in the lower ranked room you have access to).

Once you're in Gold room you need at least one 1st and one 2nd place finish to balance out a single 4th finish. it's pain.

edits: kept finding problems with the graph

SixteenShells fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Feb 16, 2023

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
Furiten riichi guarantees a tsumo yaku

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

I've played both and mahjongg is definitely more complicated. But it's also older so it's had more time to get houseruled/refined to hell and back

my favorite rules are the ones from times people got mad. like the one about "13 orphans can rob a closed kan". someone's rear end in a top hat uncle got fuckmad pissed his brother-in-law blocked his yakuman and made the whole family play so that wouldn't happen again, and the house rule spread

SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021

Schwarzwald posted:

What's the lowdown on when calling kan is correct, anyways? Situations that come to mind: you're in tenpai and you can guess the other players have folded, you're in riichi and you don't think the tile is safe to discard, you're in fourth in the last game and you need to go for the hail mary play.

when you're feeling SPICY

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SixteenShells
Sep 30, 2021
I'm not aware of any RPG-styled mahjong games, just ones that offer the basic gameplay. For singleplayer games I've turned to Kemono Mahjong (mobile and PC) and Japanese Mah-Jongg (Switch). The spelling on "mah-jongg" implies American Mahjong but it's a full-fledged riichi variant game. There's also Mahjong Club (PC). It's half very short visual novel and half riichi mahjong game. You can turn off the "powers" the characters have.

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