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big boi posted:Kamala/Beto 2020 I'm not sure the AG who refused to prosecute Mnuchin for his role in the '08 financial collapse is the nominee we need. (also draconian truancy laws, shittiness on trans issues, etc etc)
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Nov 7, 2018 19:37
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eke out posted:Reporter asks Pelosi about Trump's threat to investigate democrats or whatever I'm glad to hear that. If I could trust that she'd say more stuff like this and less stuff like she did last night (or last year, with her "We're capitalist!" nonsense), I'd be happy to have her stay on as Speaker.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:05
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:What exactly makes Tammy Duckworth so great policy wise She does not. She's one of the ones who has a mealy-mouthed "M4A-adjacent" position, but it's very pointedly not a pro-M4A one. Indeed, as of last year, she felt that it was "not the time" for Bernie's M4A bill.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:07
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Dapper_Swindler posted:thats year old, i think she can switch. She can, and I hope she does. But I can't support her until she does so loudly and proudly.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:10
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WoodrowSkillson posted:M4A is not happening any time soon no matter who we elect, In politics, if you want to achieve a long-term, sweeping project that truly changes the system, you have to be willing to loudly demand it and fight for it. Saying "It's not happening any time soon" is a cop-out. No one thinks it's going to happen overnight. If Duckworth's not even willing to call for M4A, I don't see much of a reason to support her as the nominee.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:26
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WoodrowSkillson posted:We are not taking the Senate in 2020. That is simply not a valid avenue to plan for now. Can we win it by 2022? Maybe. 2024? sure. We are not shoving M4A down the throats of of the GOP led Senate. So unless you have a really good explanation on how a complete overhaul of the healthcare system will be passed, I do not think M4A is a valid dis qualifier for President in 2020. Again, no one is talking about M4A happening in the near future. It's only going to happen within our lifetimes if we all start demanding it now, though.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:32
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I'm talking about m4a happening in the early 2020s Well great, I hope you're right! It's still only going to happen if the Democrats actually unite behind the idea.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:34
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Mahoning posted:If it can be sold to the American public and is popular, then a Republican Senate voting against it makes it a hell of a lot easier to win back the senate in 2022/2024. That's why you push for it. Get these ghouls on the record. And make your party's name synonymous with issue/suite of issues/platform.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:36
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The Kingfish posted:Its absolutely preferable that he lost the way he did. Future candidates may think twice before trying similar bullshit. Eh, maybe. He might have dragged more Indiana Democrats forward on his coattails (a la Beto) if he hadn't been such a shitstain, but I don't know enough about Indiana to say so for sure.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:40
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WoodrowSkillson posted:And her only issue was saying it won't play well in the midwest, Which is a bullshit claim, plain and simple. When M4A polls as well as it does across the board in the U.S., it's not going to poll badly in the Midwest. quote:I do not for one second think Duckworth would stop any kind of groundswell for M4A. The Democrats don't need someone who won't stand in the way of progress. They need someone who will champion it. At this point, Duckworth hasn't shown herself to be up to the task.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:44
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evilweasel posted:https://twitter.com/jeneps/status/1060256623741014016 Oh boy, this is gonna be fun.  luxury handset posted:i hope lindsey graham doesn't get the AG spot and instead gets sent to his room without supper I hope he gets it, because it's going to be a hellish job and he deserves to be miserable.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:49
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Sydin posted:The lesson that needs to be taken away from McCaskill, Heitkamp, and Donnelly is that trying to walk a centrist blue-dog line isn't going to work because CHUD's will not cross the isle to vote for you because ultimately you still have a D next to your name, so all you're doing is throwing cold water on your actual base's enthusiasm.  I do hope that, if the Dem leadership refuses to learn this lesson, left-Dems are prepared to seize power from them. Because that's going to be what it takes.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:51
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WoodrowSkillson posted:She has shown herself as being capable of winning. In her state, sure. That doesn't necessarily translate to winning the presidency - and she won't win the presidency, if she's not prepared to take bold progressive stances that inspire the base to turn out for her. quote:Right now our choices are either too old (warren, sanders), too white (hillary, biden, also old af), too problematic (booker, avenatti (lol), or are young and unproven like Beto, Gillium, or AOC. "Too old" doesn't matter to me one iota, and it shouldn't matter to you or any right-thinking voter. We have a swiss cheese-brained senior citizen in the Oval Office right now, so the Dems running an older candidate is not going to somehow magically depress turnout. As long as Bernie picks a good VP, it really doesn't matter. And I say "Bernie," because he's easily the best chance the Dems have of beating Trump.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:54
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pumpinglemma posted:And do you think the swiss cheese-brained senior citizen in the Oval Office is handling things well? Of course not - my point is just that it's probably not going to be a negative for an older Dem nominee in the eyes of most voters. But Trump's age isn't the reason why he's such a racist, frothing idiot. He's always been a racist, frothing idiot. His age has just made it even less subtle than it already was.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:56
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theflyingorc posted:Last i checked, there's like a 40% chance of Bernie getting severe dementia during his time in office. That actually matters a lot Then he steps down and President Beto or Gillum or Nina Turner comes to power.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:58
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TulliusCicero posted:Watergate speed run back on folks! According to reports from inside the White House, yes, he is that delusional: quote:Trump was perplexed. Having fully bought into the narrative of Republican invincibility—supported by boisterous crowds, a string of special election victories, and of course, his own supposedly unprecedented accomplishments and record-smashing poll numbers—the president struggled to imagine a sweeping rebuke of his government.
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Nov 7, 2018 21:00
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theflyingorc posted:It wouldn't happen that smoothly and would delay a lot of good things happening Of course it wouldn't happen that smoothly, but here's the thing: I'm really, really not convinced that any of the candidates on the docket right now could beat Trump other than Bernie. And that really needs to be objective number one. So I'd much rather roll the dice with Bernie and face the possibility that he could become incapacitated during his first time, than run someone who I think will likely lose and give Trump a second term.
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Nov 7, 2018 21:04
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Paracaidas posted:Evergreen Maj quote. I'll admit I overstated things there, but I think people really are too quick to see Bernie's age as a deal-breaker - or more of a deal-breaker than the other likely Democratic candidates' issues.
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Nov 7, 2018 21:07
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Big Mad Drongo posted:Look on the bright side, after they LOCK HER UP she won't be able to act on any funny ideas about running for president again in 2020! Ugh, but then you just know that's when Neera decides to take up her banner.
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Nov 7, 2018 21:11
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:This seems like a real actual question. Muller was hired by republicans in a bipartisan thing. Like, republicans started this probe, it's not 100% clear they are actually unified in ending it. If they face a lot of political pressure and they're up for reelection anytime soon, sure. But I wouldn't count on it.
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Nov 7, 2018 21:15
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Fulchrum posted:"Prepared to seize power from them" means "prepared to win the loving primary". So are you planning on not supporting vanity campaigns and sticking to people who have a chance at actually winning the state primary in the future? Or are you going to keep saying that purity is the REAL victory?  There's a whole lotta projection going on in this post.
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Nov 7, 2018 22:30
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evilweasel posted:that's pretty easy to understand, that pelosi as a widely disliked politician has a vested personal interest in that not becoming a norm. because it'll happen to her too. That's a pretty cowardly excuse.
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Nov 7, 2018 22:33
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Fulchrum posted:So refusing to learn a goddamn thing Hey, Fulchrum? Hate to break it to you, but last night was a really, really bad showing for your preferred strategy.
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Nov 7, 2018 22:36
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Xae posted:Has it occurred to you that you might not be the only audience she is talking to at any given time? Who was that for, then?
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Nov 7, 2018 22:38
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evilweasel posted:which races, specifically, would you say validated your strategy? Brown and Baldwin kept their seats, while McCaskill and Donnelly didn't. Fulchrum posted:My preferred strategy of winning the primary? Your preferred strategy of putting Democrats in power. The one that the Dems have been trying for decades, even as it routinely fails.
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Nov 7, 2018 22:42
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Fulchrum posted:How exactly has your strategy of "lose the primary" worked in helping the Democrats? Mmm yes, you've got a great handle on my strategy, Fulchrum. I'm sure this will make Trump feel better for all of ten minutes. 
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Nov 7, 2018 22:47
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Munkeymon posted:If the thread becomes a Dems Bad version of the YOSPoS Bitcoin thread where people just white noise tired jokes at each other that's just boring. Something that would never happen in the old Trump thread.  Unsurprising.
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Nov 7, 2018 22:50
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Fulchrum posted:Well, considering that this current screeching bout of yours was brought on by the suggestion "Maybe you should try actually winning the primary", you clearly seem to hold losing the primary as a goal for some reason. The "screeching" began when you objected to me saying that left-Dems should be prepared to take over the party from the Succ-Dems. It's always nice when you telegraph how shook you are, Fulchrum.
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Nov 7, 2018 22:53
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evilweasel posted:I would be interested in someone being able to explain how Brown did what he did, because he seems to be the model for a Good Red State Senator, but I don't know how he was able to do it. I don't think you can point to him and just be like "duh, leftists will win" because he's not that leftist and because you've got the obvious counterexample of Gillum (and figuring out wtf happened in Florida is another key issue). My strategy isn't just "go left," though. It's never been that. It's, "The Dems will do better in the Midwest overall if they inject more economic populism into their campaigns." That's clearly something Brown has done, not just this year but for quite a long time. Vox put it surprisingly well yesterday: quote:Trump’s actual strategy of pursuing a largely orthodox, largely hard-right economic policy agenda meant he and Brown were perennially at odds, but it fundamentally left the field clear for Brown to own his longtime brand as a working-class champion. In his ads, he championed the dignity of work, leaned into his reputation for wrinkled suits, and attacked Renacci’s record on health care, taxes, and trade.
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Nov 7, 2018 22:57
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evilweasel posted:Did anyone else try this approach, and did it work? One thing I don't get is how Corday got beaten badly while Brown won, despite Corday being the face of wall street regulation in favor of poor people. Cordray suffered from a bit of a charisma deficit, from what I understand. I haven't seen much of him speaking, but from what I've heard, he was boring af. Unfortunately, not too many high-profile Democratic Senatorial candidates went all-in on the economic populism platform. I think they would have done better overall if they had.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:07
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Hellblazer187 posted:On topic: what can and should the party do to appeal to rural voters? I think the "move left" answer is too simplistic. I feel like there have to be enough rural people who care about something other than their stupid white supremacy to win over those regions. And learning to win in rural zones is probably easier than abolishing the Senate. Someone brought this up in the Dems 2020 thread, but Klobuchar's success in MN brings up a few possibilities. Actually targeting policies directly at their needs is a good idea - stuff like expanding broadband access and improving infrastructure.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:09
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e: quote is not edit
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Nov 7, 2018 23:10
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Fulchrum posted:And they're doing that by choosing not to go to war with a strawman Pelosi because she talked about the faults of capitalism without saying the magical word socialism. The DSA is choosing to actually try to win primaries, not just sulking and saying they totally would have won and deserved to win, but they're too pure and good. Where are you getting this absurd idea that the people here who are to the left of you aren't actually involved in politics IRL, and are just sulking and complaining online?
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Nov 7, 2018 23:12
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Fulchrum posted:Because you seem to be disgusted at the idea of trying in any way to actually win a primary. Where are you getting that from?
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Nov 7, 2018 23:17
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Grouchio posted:You're loving next Collins. Maine's coming for you. I'm genuinely amazed that she still thinks she'll be governor someday.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:22
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I'm coming up blank on a person, but essentially someone with rural roots, and strong progressive bonafides, and maybe some government experience? *in Bernie's voice* I AM A REAL AMERICAN FIGHT FOR THE RIGHTS OF EVERY MAN Also it really sucks that Measure B failed in LA. What the hell?
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Nov 7, 2018 23:24
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Z. Autobahn posted:Rural voters really like Democratic economic policies and really dislike Democratic social policies. Pushing hard on the former is definitely a winner, but I think how you handle the latter is a lot trickier, in no small part because rural voters will consistently prioritize social issues as the most important in determining their voting habits. I dunno, those rural districts in MN turned out for Klobuchar...I think the bigger issue is that too few Red State Dem candidates actually try this strategy. They instead tend to do what Donnelly did, ie: try to be Republican-lite on both fronts.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:27
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Why would you try to make me puke all over my keyboard? That's not nice.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:29
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Z. Autobahn posted:Yeah, I think what a lot of 'leftist policies will sway red voters' posters don't get is that it won't happen because leftist policies are about alleviating inequality and the core dominating philosophy of most of these people is explicitly and unabashedly pro-inequality. The idea is less that it will flip deep red voters, and more that it will inspire some of the ~40% of eligible Americans who don't vote, to get out and vote for Dems. Condiv posted:what's the obsession with beto? i really don't get it He ran a decent, although far from perfect, campaign that looked like it might toss Ted Cruz out on his rear end. I do think he's a little overvalued here though.
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Nov 8, 2018 01:12
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Phi230 posted:Just because socialism is necessary and sufficient to combat fascism and other reactionary tendencies does not mean that every fash and reactionary be converted. Success must be made in spite of reactionaries by empowering people against them Is that a quote? Because if not it's really well-put. 
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Nov 8, 2018 01:15
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