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Discendo Vox posted:It's a nonsensical ego trip. Who is allowed to run for office and this not apply? This is a pretty strong position for so little information in the post
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Jan 2, 2021 09:06
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So you have any more about this being Lee's fault? I found this article suggesting it wasn't going anywhere before he tried to force the vote. https://www.virginiamercury.com/blog-va/va-house-leaders-block-lee-carters-effort-to-force-vote-on-right-to-work-repeal/ Some sources besides "I'm from VA" would help
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Feb 18, 2021 21:36
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Who asked anyone to doxx, I'm asking for a source that is not them. "You wasted the opportunity to get 10 more people on board with what the leadership was going to kill anyway" as a lot less punch I suppose
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Feb 18, 2021 21:58
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Ok show me where he sucks at it? I guess the issue is only having one anonymous source on any of this who can't be doxxed so we just have to believe them instead of providing literally anything from local news. I'm not clear on how we know that a significant margin of Dems who might have done things different if he played better with others, even given that it's true. It's just " this leftist sucks and he just wants to post" and bunch of other posters nodding im agreement. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Feb 18, 2021 |
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Feb 18, 2021 22:10
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Aruan posted:his entire campaign for governor is 'look at all these garbage lying democrats' Evidence of this ? I don't find anything about his primary opponents on his campaign page. I can't find anything on this Twitter that seems out of the ordinary in terms of a politician running in a primary, which by definition is against members of his own party. This is just more unsourced and unsupported making GBS threads on the leftist, as far as I can tell.
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Feb 18, 2021 22:20
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Not an expert in VA legislative assembly rules so just to make sure I'm clear is there a rule against copy and pasting? Does this have to be hand written from scratch per bill like D&D wizard having to separately memorize fireball for each time he wants to cast?
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Feb 18, 2021 22:39
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Career or not any politician that would have voted for the repeal and changed their vote is a bigger rear end in a top hat than Carter. "I'm annoyed we are doing this out of order, so gently caress the poor" and you want us to blame the guy who put it out of order?
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Feb 18, 2021 23:58
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Discendo Vox posted:RTW is not the only issue that matters. You are sealioning every loving aspect of the state legislative process to a succession of state activists. It's not sealioning to disagree with people in the thread jesus loving christ. It's not the only issue that matters but I've only seen various goons' word that it wasn't gonna be blocked yet again and they are all on the same side of this. Looks like maybe that was the only way to get these rear end in a top hat Dems on record as being assholes who don't care about RTW Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Feb 19, 2021 |
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Feb 19, 2021 00:41
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Discendo Vox posted:This has been explained at least three times. It's certainly been asserted. If they all voted to pass it what bill was going to get left out in the cold?
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Feb 19, 2021 00:52
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Is it really, honestly confusing that people will spitefully gently caress over someone who cuts in line? only when they try to claim that they really really wanted to do the thing the person was cutting in line to do and now they can't and it's his fault
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Feb 19, 2021 00:55
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:They don't 'really really want to', that the VA dems are persuadable but not proponents is literally the basis of the discussion. I think I'm going to trust his instincts on whether they were persuadable enough to pass it vs bottling it up for a third year in a row.
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Feb 19, 2021 01:01
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It seems like you don't understand the point of disagreement because the particular details of the Virginia legislative process are interesting but only tangential to the question of whether or not politicians other than Lee Carter are responsible for the votes they cast
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Feb 19, 2021 01:15
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axeil posted:Why do you think friendbot2000, a poster who has posted a lot in this thread and others over many years about being active in pushing the VA legislature on policy is upset with Lee Carter? Obviously they believe this is all his fault. We get it they have been very clear. That doesn't mean they are right. Continuous assertion of correctness does not make it so
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Feb 19, 2021 01:37
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DV, am I understanding right? The issue is that he didn't threaten to withhold votes from good things or agree to vote for bad things to get more votes for his bill so they had to kill it?
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Feb 19, 2021 01:47
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The most obvious explanation for why he would choose the strategy he did is that he did not believe they would give it a vote. the most obvious explanation for why a bunch of people voted against it is that they would have never voted for it in the first place. The point of contention is the claim that this is all his fault.
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Feb 19, 2021 04:01
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you'll note that I already did that. I didn't claim he's a political genius. What's the source on this being a surprise to everyone but him by the way? The locals have been surprisingly recalcitrant to share anything but their personal statements on this, and stuff about the legislative structure. But you seem very sure of this so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Feb 19, 2021 |
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Feb 19, 2021 04:29
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Yeah really whatabouting *checks notes* the issue we've been talking about for pages now.
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Feb 20, 2021 02:20
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I don't think you actually comprehend the nature of the disagreement, resulting in this visceral reaction to it happening in this thread. Aruan, do you have any actual examples of this "Lee Carter being lovely to his fellow VA Democras on Twitter" you've been pounding on about? Because so far you've cited people abusing him and his pinned tweet, which is pretty standard primary fare. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 06:01
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evilweasel posted:yes tons were posted in this post: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3873661&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=46#post512621361 It's like you don't read things and just pick a group to believe, whatever they say. Because there's no actual evidence posted of the repeated claim or anything to suggest that it's gone beyond what is perfectly normal for a primary.
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Feb 20, 2021 16:23
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evilweasel posted:you know people can read, right? why would you try to lie about what anyone can read, right there? Feel free to share more or quote actual posts instead of repeatedly claiming they've been posted when we've been reading the thread and they haven't.
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Feb 20, 2021 16:32
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"it's all her fault" is your own editorialization. I'm not getting that from the tweet at all, it's peripheral. But you've decided he's the bad guy. As for why, she related to the smears. That's the concern and main thrust. Why bring up DSA smearing him when talking about his issues with DSA. A real thinker
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Feb 20, 2021 16:52
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I'm noticing that this stuff between Lee and the DSA doesn't seem to be actually related to this procedural motion issue it's being tied to. Unless it's just to establish he can be a jerk sometimes, which I don't think anyone disputed even while saying this doesn't seem particularly jerky.
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Feb 20, 2021 18:34
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Aruan posted:he treats the rest of the party as enemies instead of allies, Aruan posted:his entire campaign for governor is 'look at all these garbage lying democrats' which makes it very hard to then turn to those people you are explicitly and pointedly calling out as lying hacks, frauds and corporate shills and say 'hey can you support my bill.' Aruan posted:he openly dogs his coworkers. To be clear, you've references his pinned tweet, but it doesn't seem toxic. It's a primary, he's running against other members of his party. That's how it works
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Feb 20, 2021 19:03
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Half the time it's not even at enemies, it's at ostensible allies. Are you endorsing these posts about posting and posters? Because I've got some replies on the topic but I thought it was against the rules and youve got a sheriff star.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:31
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Not sure I'm clear why anyone would be lobbying to primary Carter (still unsourced) and not someone in a safe district who wasn't as strong RTW repeal.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:53
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So he went on to win? I'm not sure I see the issue here. He got ahead of some things that reasonably could have been dug up. Comparing him to a permabanned pedophile is lovely and mean, even for D&D. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 20:00
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How are u posted:Dumb and unqualified people win elected office all the time. It's kind of a problem! Yes but the evidence he's dumb so far was a thing that was portrayed as hurting his chances. Yet he won, and no one has tried to present any evidence of polling drops before this damage control or any evidence that it actually hurt his chances, it's all just "some goon said this once". So it's not clear that thing was dumb, so it's not clear how he's dumb.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:05
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Angry_Ed posted:Oh well clearly his chances weren't damaged then (this is not how that works) Ok so you have some sort of evidence that they were? I can't prove a negative here. The assertion was he is dumb because this. Show me where this is dumb beyond your gut political instinct or "some goon claimed credit for fixing it."
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Feb 20, 2021 20:08
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Angry_Ed posted:Actually the onus is on you to prove that his chances weren't hurt I have addressed this. How are u posted:I think that getting drunk and shitposting is a disqualifying trait in somebody who wants to hold elected office. That's my personal stance. Interesting. Who would you vote for if you were in his district? Aruan posted:no, the point is that he keeps doing stupid things that alienate the people around him who should be his allies because he can't stop being terminally online. canvassing for people is hard work, canvassing for a democratic socialist in this country is even harder, and when your candidate gets drunk and tweets a bunch of bullshit that makes your job even harder agenda. What an incredibly lovely and self-centered approach to thinking about this. I'm not saying he's the next AOC, but he's showing a kind of honesty I like in my politicians Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 20:10
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I like him because of his politics. His online posting style seems fine, not AOC, but not loving Taintrunner either. What acts of self sabatoge, ed. Just endless new assertions without evidence. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 20:29
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Angry_Ed posted:I would say blowing up your own right to work bill just so you blame others on its failure is an act of self-sabotage. I would say alienating the very same DSA chapter that helped you get elected twice would be an act of self-sabotage. Why would I have to repost what has already been posted just because you didn't bother to read it and/or are arguing in bad faith Because no one has really demonstrated any of the things they are saying. The only source is memories of old posts from one goon. I'm reading it all this is 100% good faith. Your inability to understand disagreement breaks all the rules but somehow you can endlessly psychoanalyze me itt. Go gently caress yourselves. It's not clear the bill would have passed. It may not have been the smartest move, but he traded a shot to roll a die with some percent chance and forced the first actual vote on it in years. I'll take any sources you have on the odds of it passing after horsetrading, but if Lee thought they were 1/8, I totally see doing what he did. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 20:38
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Aruan posted:they. didn't. vote. on. the. bill. He traded a 12% shot of maybe getting the bill and now we have a bunch of politicians to push harder or primary. You can't predict the future except that this definitely would have passed if not for Lee Carter
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Feb 20, 2021 20:43
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I'm saying if he thought the actual odds of it getting passed and not bottled up yet again were low, based maybe on actual interactions with other politicians that, as you have emphasized, are very important, I can see doing what he did. RTW is a big deal for bosses because it gives them near-total power. Even with other pro-labor things passing this might be a tougher one. Minimum wage goes up and they can just fire as they think is needed to deal. Angry_Ed posted:Just endless new assertions without evidence. Quit trying to shift the burden of proof on me to negate assertions. It's not a thing. I can't prove to someone that aliens never landed but I can ask if they have evidence and question its quality. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 20:51
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Angry_Ed posted:The burden of proof is on you to prove that this bill was doomed from the start and thus Lee Did Nothing Wrong in killing it, to say nothing of the other things he's done which have not helped his case and/or standing even amongst his staunchest allies. But all you offer is "well I like the fact that he shitposts" as if that's any basis for good governance. You're talking to people who have supported him in campaigns and live in the state telling you that he has screwed up and you just keep going "where's the proof" even after proof has been provided. Two years being bottled up and the guy pushing it made the decision to force a vote that you say was guaranteed to kill it are why I think they might have been low. But I wasn't claiming to be able to prove that or asserting it as a fact., I asserted that him thinking so is a reasonable explanation for his actions beyond "he's a big dumb idiot" The margin of Dems who didn't vote for the procedural motion also suggests to me that there's a lot of holdouts Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 21:06
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Sanguinia posted:Do you honestly not feel like Carter being abandoned by other Virginia socialists, progressive politicians including the bill's cosponsors AND labor unions over this stunt is indicative that maybe there was more to those no votes on a good bill than personal dislike, tweets and Liberals Hating Leftism? no one's provided anything showing that that is happening related to this stunt just stuff about him being mean to be people on Twitter which was actually people being mean to him on Twitter. if the issue is how he is cutting in line you can find other ways to make an example of him and dissuade repetition of his stunt then by shutting down a good bill.
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Feb 21, 2021 15:55
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friendbot2000 posted:It took us considerable time, resources, and energy defending Lee Carter after this oppo dump. We are talking money and manhours that could have been spent elsewhere. Like, the ammo he gave for lit drops alone was enough to make the race a complete tossup. And considering the majority margins a toss-up was not something we could afford. There is some sort of polling then? I was just asking people to prove the assertions that his Twitter honesty negatively impacted his campaign and it needed saving. Seems to have won by a healthy margin but I'm skeptical of anonymous claims of fixing all the dumb guys mistakes, which is being asserted as proof that he is dumb, but no actual proof that it needed saving in the first place.
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Feb 21, 2021 16:00
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Handsome Ralph posted:Alright, after finally catching up on this thread after being busy over the last few days, I'm real tired of this days old argument and watching it just go in circles. Friendbot (among other posters) have a backed up history (in this thread even) that that they have worked in VA local politics for years at this point. This isn't new information if you've been posting in this thread or others like it. They didn't just drop into the thread to randomly poo poo on Lee Carter a couple of days ago, they have the posting history to prove that they are indeed connected to VA politics. So I'm willing to take their word for it all things considered. If you're not, that's your right and fair enough, but your arguments against their personal experiences isn't really going anywhere at this point and they've offered up more than enough to explain themselves and their belief that Carter has hosed up. I asked for literally any sources for literally anything. Sorry if that was unreasonable. no one has any so I guess I'll drop it because clearly they don't have local newspapers in VA. If you read the whole thread I expect there will be forthcoming action on the continuous posting about posters and psychoanalyzing their reasons for not just trusting that one guy's opinion is also fact.
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Feb 21, 2021 17:52
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" rinse repeat.
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achillesforever6 posted:I think it was early 2018 when he gaslighted his ex-wife by saying he was the one being abused by his ex-wife This is an extremely serious accusation. Do you have anything to back it up?
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Jun 10, 2021 04:54
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Ballz posted:He tweeted about it endlessly. He still brings it up pretty regularly. The part where he was gaslighting her about abuse, or lying about it. We all know he tweets a lot. "Been divorced before" isn't evidence unless other exs have made the same accusations, if that were the case I imagine thats what you'd have said. https://medium.com/@leecarter_16233/why-i-didnt-report-my-abuser-until-i-did-e9d0a4dbae8c Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Jun 10, 2021 |
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Jun 10, 2021 13:08
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I was giving the OP the benefit of the doubt that something else may have come out I hadn't seen since Carter shared his documents from the incident. Try it sometime
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Jun 10, 2021 15:36
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