Dungeons & Dragons: 5th Edition - Its not called Dungeons & No Dragons, son

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Dungeons & Dragons: 5th Edition - Its not called Dungeons & No Dragons, son

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change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

I've been DMing a game for my friends for the last year, but want to join a second game somewhere else as a player and have been messing around with character ideas. I've been working on a battle master fighter with a few draconic sorcerer levels thrown in for versatility/extra movement and combat adaptability (but the exact balance would depend on what level the new group is playing at). Are melee/spellcasting characters usually inferior at doing both? I tried playing a similar jack-of-all-trades ranger once and it didn't work out too well.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2019 19:27

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 00:29

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Hmm, I didn't consider going the paladin route because I wanted to make a lawful evil character (even though I know it's not an alignment-specific class in 5e), and eldritch knight kind of seems like it sucks based on the few spells you have access to. War mage seems like something I could mess around with though.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2019 21:38

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Yeah, how has :iiam:

not been shut down? It's a great DMing resource and I've totally ditched my physical books when playing because of it, but they literally have everything

Somebody fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Apr 23, 2019

# ¿ Apr 23, 2019 04:54

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

During our last big battle, the party�s tiefling rogue boarded the bad guy�s airship and set it on fire... only to be promptly put to sleep the next turn, wherein the airship crashed and she couldn�t do anything to escape

# ¿ Apr 25, 2019 00:09

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Infinity Gaia posted:

This is a somewhat unpopular opinion in this thread, but as far as combat power goes I think 5e is actually pretty well balanced barring extreme edge cases like PHB Ranger and Four Elements Monk. The actual balancing issues lie in the out-of-combat power and to a lesser but still significant extent versatility within combat. I strongly believe that as far as the hitting monsters phase of the game goes you can't actually go too wrong.

Isn't the PHB Beastmaster Ranger universally agreed to be bad? I made a Hunter Ranger once and it was fine, even if I did totally screw up balancing her stats

# ¿ Apr 27, 2019 01:41

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Infinity Gaia posted:

I'm jealous of groups that actually get magic items. My party in Mad Mage is nearly level 7 and the only real magic item we have is a single circlet of blasting. I hope we find a +1 weapon for our Fighter soon...

I feel like our group is having the opposite problem. Our setting is in a pretty advanced magitech/fantasy version of Europe, so it makes sense that they'd be getting magical items as rewards for completing longer adventures, even though they're only level 4... except I've realized that no one really uses any of the stuff they're accumulating.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2019 16:09

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

If I�m an unarmed monk or whatever, would I get one attack or two normally? Ie, would it be an attack for each hand similar to duel wielding?

# ¿ Apr 28, 2019 15:10

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Conspiratiorist posted:

You can't dual wield your hands (they aren't weapons!).

Unarmed attacks are a function of being a creature, and isn't at all tied to your arms - you could be a limbless torso and still be able to unarmed attack. And Monks through Martial Arts get the capability to, as a Bonus Action, make an Unarmed Attack after they've taken the Attack Action on their turn. This Attack Action could've been a weapon attack or another unarmed attack, it doesn't matter. The Bonus Action attack also gets its damage modifiers just fine - that thing with BA attacks not getting modifiers unless you have the Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style is a function of dual wielding and not of Bonus Action attacks.

For most monks, the optimal routine is 2-handing a spear or staff to get a 1d8 damage die for their Attack Action, then Bonus Action unarmed attack for their martial arts die.

Okay, thanks! That�s exactly what I was wondering.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2019 19:22

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Is Subtle Spell actually worth choosing as a metamagic option? I like the idea of being able to cast spells even if you�re bound/silenced/locked up and restrained or whatever, especially flavor-wise, but I don�t think I�ve seen anyone advocating for it.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2019 17:30

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

What exactly is the Adventure League? An ongoing storyline from WoTC that you can drop in on at official tables? I was thinking of joining a game but saw that there are a bunch of restrictions.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2019 20:49

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Yeah, for those of you who DM, how closely do you stick to the book? I stumbled across a long debate over canon and lore in D&D, and I was like, do those guys not realize you can do whatever you want

# ¿ May 2, 2019 20:59

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Baller Ina posted:

Is there any way to make wielding a one-hander without a shield not just a strict downgrade? It's a flavor look I really want to try, for some reason. Obviously monk is a way to go but I'm curious if there's other ideas.

Defensive duelist (add your proficiency to your AC against melee attacks if you're wielding a one-handed weapon only), combined with a dueling-styled fighter/ranger?

# ¿ May 3, 2019 00:06

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

RisqueBarber posted:

It did reduce the AC but I was bummed because I had picked it as a level two spell and thought I could cast it at least twice.

Sounds like arbitrary fudging, they could have at least made the enemy waste a turn cutting it off or something

# ¿ May 3, 2019 15:34

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

My players never took backgrounds when making their characters and now they�re level 4, is too late to ask them to choose, now that they have a better idea of who their characters are? It�s a bunch of free bonuses they�re missing out on.

# ¿ May 4, 2019 16:57

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Ryuujin posted:

Okay so Rogues.

Arcane Tricksters are good if you want some magic, spells probably make them the stealthiest. Melee Cantrips can really amp up the damage of their single attack a round. Also Shadow Blade. All in all Arcane Tricksters are probably the strongest Rogue archetype, because spells. Because that is the kind of game this is.

Assassin is bad. Super really bad like crazy. It requires a lot of help from the DM and Party to ever use. That said they can put out some good damage on the very very very rare occasion where they manage to succeed on getting Surprise.

Inquisitor is mostly bad, it is ever so slightly better at Perception and Investigation, and can Sneak Attack against a single creature in certain situations while others can't, and at a higher level gets a little more damage against that same one target. But again mostly not all that good, it provides very little beyond just being an archetype-less Rogue.

Mastermind is mostly meh, but better than the last two. Useful if you want more languages, though Backgrounds can get you some as well. That said it is better at using the Help action than most Rogues, and later on can basically mind blank themselves.

Scout is good if you want more skills and expertises, if you want a non spellcasting ranger like class, and if you want some mobility. Gets 2 extra skills/expertise, faster movement, climb and swim speeds, advantage on initiative, advantage on everyone's attacks rolls against the first thing you hit in the first round, and eventually even an extra attack that can apply sneak attack if against a different target. It is just a nice well rounded archetype, probably the 2nd or 3rd best Rogue archetype.

Swashbuckler is often considered one of the better Rogue archetypes. They can get sneak attack against targets others can't, can move away from enemies they attacked, some good stuff with Diplomacy and can be good at Athletics and Acrobatics if they have the bonus action to use before making the check. Again probably the 2nd or 3rd best Rogue archetype.

Thief. ... Uh. It is not Assassin? Technically you might be able to do some good stuff with the bonus action Use an Item, but for the most part that is worthless except for using Healing Kits. Most of the other abilities are pretty blah to bad. They are good at using Stealth if not moving more than half their movement in a turn. Also at high levels they can get 2 turns in the first round of combat if not surprised, which is nice, but probably not as good as a second attack every round.

Hmm, I was thinking of rolling a dex, archery-focused Battle Master fighter (with sharpshooter) and dipping rogue, should I stay away from going Assassin then? I was thinking of picking up like 3 levels so I could gain advantage on things in the first round and knock them around to where I want them with maneuvers or the extra damage from sharpshooter.

# ¿ May 8, 2019 01:24

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Ryuujin posted:

Well you only get the Advantage against creatures who haven't gone yet, so if anything rolls higher on Initiative you aren't getting Advantage on them.

If you are focusing on Battlemaster Fighter, what are you dipping Rogue for? Just a few dice of Sneak Attack?

Assassin can get you Advantage against someone who hasn't gone yet, and if you actually manage to Surprise you can get a Crit. If that is all you want then fine, but well hopefully you manage to go first all the time.

Most Rogue archetypes are probably not going to be of much help for just 3 levels, and any less than that and you don't even get the Archetype.

Swashbuckler is less useful for Ranged characters, though it can still get the +Cha to Initiative.

Scout still gets you Nature and Survival as trained and expertised skills and if an enemy ends their turn within 5ft of you you can spend a Reaction to move half your speed without provoking attacks of opportunity.

Arcane Trickster could still be useful, but no scaling really except on the Cantrips which are less useful for a Ranged class or someone with Extra Attack.

Inquisitive 3 is meh and probably not of much use to your build.

Mastermind 3 can maybe be good for the bonus action Help action, if you aren't using your Bonus Action for anything else.

Thief 3 is not really all that good.

Yeah, I checked out Gloom Stalker rogue and it seems way more versatile. This would be for a level 8 character, so I was going to split it 5/3 to get the double attack.

Edit: Although, rogues also get expertise bonuses and Cunning Action bonus moves, so that's appealing as well.

change my name fucked around with this message at 03:13 on May 8, 2019

# ¿ May 8, 2019 02:13

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Infinite Karma posted:

what

How do you get to use Assassinate "against a target who hasn't acted/taken a turn yet in the combat" multiple times per combat?

Yeah it only triggers in the first round, but if you're attacking multiple times + action surge you could conceivably nail a bunch of people with advantage

# ¿ May 8, 2019 03:40

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Infinite Karma posted:

Who cares, if you aren't getting multiple free crits on your sneak attack dice (which only triggers once per round regardless)?

You could feasibly use sharpshooter's "add +10 damage, take a -5 hit penalty" for each attack, but I'm not definitely not defending it, especially since I've never played a rogue

# ¿ May 8, 2019 03:52

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Is there any reason to carry a short bow over a long bow, ever?

# ¿ May 8, 2019 16:47

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

So pretty much just flavor/RP reasons, got it.

# ¿ May 8, 2019 17:00

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Conspiratiorist posted:

Beast Master
Assassin
Scout
Inquisitive
Berserker
Battlerager
Storm Herald
Way of the 4 Elements
Champion
Purple Dragon Knight
Wild Sorc
Storm Sorc

All of these Archetypes either provide benefits so small as to be inconsequential, or actively make the class worse by either forcing or encouraging you to engage with the bad mechanics they add.

I�d disagree about some of these because the mechanics seem fun, but yeah Champion seems flat out bad AND boring

# ¿ May 8, 2019 22:18

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Gharbad the Weak posted:

Oh man, the art of fighting without fighting, where's Bruce Lee?

That's called playing a ranger

# ¿ May 10, 2019 01:30

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

If I knock a flying creature prone with a Trip Attack, it�s going to fall out of the sky and face-plant, right?

# ¿ May 10, 2019 13:06

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Yeah I usually do long rests as 8 hours and short rests as 1-4, it kind of doesn't make sense to take more than one longer rest a day, even if it does disadvantage non-elves sometimes (since they only need 4 hours of sleep).

# ¿ May 11, 2019 17:08

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

I just meant that anything longer than four hours is a long rest.

# ¿ May 11, 2019 17:33

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

dex_sda posted:

That's fine but I don't think dnd5e is the right game for that kinda group.

A huge part of the fun is trying to make things work despite lacking resources imo.

What??

# ¿ May 11, 2019 18:08

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Yeah, I was thinking of making a similar setup for an upcoming one-off adventure and added up the potential first round damage... it's not super great. Below is a Battlemaster 5/ Assassin 3 split with +4 to dex, sharpshooter and a +1 longbow, for instance:

Attack 1: 1d8+5, +10 from sharpshooter, + 2d6 from sneak attack
Attack 2: 1d8+5, +10 from sharpshooter,
Action surge and repeat: 2d8+10, +20 from sharpshooter

If all four attacks hit, that's only a maximum damage of 104. If you burn all of your superiority dice, that's only a potential max damage of 136, not accounting for crits, since surprise rounds are kind of hard to trigger. At level 8, you can probably take out a few monsters, but likely not a boss.

# ¿ May 12, 2019 17:25

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Does it make more sense to take Alert (initiative buff), Athlete (tons of movement perks), or Skulker (dim vision and hiding buff) for the level 10 fighter/rogue archer I�m making for a one-off game? Already have sharpshooter and maxed dex.

# ¿ May 13, 2019 18:35

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Think I might just stick with alert, I need to top the order if I want to get advantage, and being immune to being surprised/snuck up on seems fun

# ¿ May 13, 2019 20:40

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Has anyone played an evil campaign without it devolving into constant theft and random murder? Just because you�re a bad guy doesn�t mean you�re a bad guy, to quote a movie.

# ¿ May 14, 2019 16:53

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Nephzinho posted:

I tried so hard to make it work, it didn't. A year and a half of running from town to town loving up jobs and running from the authorities before they ended the world.

Also if you're still looking for a group, my table is in much better shape now with a catering/restauranteur campaign that is decidedly not murerhobo'ing. You should come to one of AR's game nights to hang, and I can find a way to write in another employee if you end up in.

Ah cool, maybe. How does a restaurant-focused campaign work even?

# ¿ May 14, 2019 20:36

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Marathanes posted:

Mr. Prokosch essentially covered your first and second questions, if all you're looking for is the purely mechanical best (lol at just walking away from stat rolling tables though ). There are a few other chassis that are also drat good as well.

That said, I tend to have an unpopular opinion in this thread in that I create characters first by visualizing what I want them to be and how I want them to feel, and then set to figuring out the best way to accomplish that. Essentially, I urge folks to create the character you want in your head first, and then make that concept fit within the D&D system (which often can lead to a loss of optimization). If you want to feel very tied to your character and not like you're playing a character that many others have likely played in the past, you may want to consider this kind of approach. Once you have a concept, many folks in here, myself included, are often happy to give advice on how to realize a concept.

That said, to more broadly answer your question - there was a survey of players (conducted on a forum well known for optimization) completed about a year and a half ago came up with the below insofar as tier rankings ranging S-A-B-C-D, you can find the full data and some interesting visualizations, including data for how much people enjoyed the classes and archetypes here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQK9WoCYz5l0IWv6a9kDJmy4X5-zQYd631t1CFxGA_68OKeKxKyM3prgvHqx1k7acRdTKO0ZR6XXLOp/pubhtml

The raw rankings (essentially grading how powerful the class 'felt' to play) are as follows:
A+:
Hexblade Warlock, Divination Wizard, Lore Bard, Moon Druid

A:
Totem Barbarian, Vengeance Paladin, Abjuration Wizard, Divine Soul Sorcerer (also UA Revised Ranger and Mystic)

B+:
Life Cleric, Ancients Paladin, Tempest Cleric, Swashbuckler Rogue, Arcana Cleric, Zealot Barbarian, Oathbreaker Paladin, Battlemaster Fighter, Shadow Sorcerer, Gloom Stalker Ranger, Forge Cleric, Ancestral Guardian Barbarian

B:
Bladesinger Wizard, Fiend Warlock, Shepherd Druid, Devotion Paladin, Open Hand Monk, Conquest Paladin, Swords Bard, Evocation Wizard, Illusion Wizard, Light Cleric, Cavalier Fighter, Death Cleric, Draconic Sorcerer, Celestial Warlock, Arcane Trickster Rogue, Grave Cleric, Horizon Walker Ranger, War Cleric, Glamour Bard, Knowledge Cleric, Scout Rogue, Conjuration Wizard, Dreams Druid, Necromancy Wizard, Eldritch Knight Fighter, Nature Cleric, Kensei Monk, Shadow Monk, Enchantment Wizard, Valor Bard, Monster Slayer Ranger, Land Druid, Samurai Fighter, Drunken Master Monk, Thief Rogue, Whispers Bard, Assassin Rogue, Hunter Ranger, Arch Fey Warlock, War Magic Wizard, Great Old One Warlock, Long Death Monk, Crown Paladin, Storm Sorcerer

B-:
Transmutation Wizard, Inquisitive Rogue

C+:
Redemption Paladin, Sun Soul Monk, Champion Fighter, Mastermind Rogue, Storm Herald Barbarian, Arcane Archer Fighter

C:
Trickery Cleric, Battlerager Barbarian, Undying Warlock, Berserker Barbarian (also UA Artificer)

C-:
Wild Magic Sorcerer, Purple Dragon Knight Fighter

D:
Beastmaster Ranger, Four Elements Monk

If you follow the link above, the survey author also made a 'curved' version of these stats in a tab of the sheet that weights the classes more for levels 3-10, where most D&D is played).

What about spore Druid?

# ¿ May 18, 2019 01:26

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Last time I played a ranger, I would either fall on my rear end, lose the grip of my sword and send it flying, or bury it in a door frame and miss an attack, etc if I rolled a 1. It was actually kind of hilarious, but if were making 6 attacks as a fighter and kept loving up, I could see how it would be more annoying.

# ¿ May 18, 2019 17:12

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Azza Bamboo posted:

Does anyone know a solution to the whack-a-mole problem?

I'm part of a table that takes it in turns to GM. As a player I've found that the GM can down a lot of us, and so long as someone can heal the big healer we'll all just get right back up again. Our current GM has said that this is a known issue known as "whack-a-mole" and I came here because, well...

...if it's a known issue, is there a known solution?

Not rooting for a TPK?

# ¿ May 19, 2019 01:28

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

If you keep rolling 1's and your character falls on their rear end a lot, just make a fighter who's really good at MMA, on the ground-style combat

# ¿ May 19, 2019 15:57

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Just buy stat points

# ¿ May 19, 2019 18:15

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Yeah I only bought the player�s handbook and monster manual when I started DMing, as long as you have a setting or story in mind it should be fine.

# ¿ May 21, 2019 17:07

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

�My character is the Mimeoplasm, look it up dude�

# ¿ May 21, 2019 19:13

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Be fey do crimes

# ¿ May 22, 2019 21:10

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 00:29

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

One of my players has a blinkdog pet that�s been helping out in combat, should it be getting XP as well/pulling XP from the party at the end of a battle even though it can�t level up?

# ¿ May 23, 2019 16:25

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Dungeons & Dragons: 5th Edition - Its not called Dungeons & No Dragons, son

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