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BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

ProfessorBooty posted:

I visited a Japanese sub on my visit over there, and at the time I kind of thought all their brilliant organization was try hard, but maybe in retrospect they had a more robust maintenance, mentoring, and training programs.

Those grapes are probably sour anyway.

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BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Zadok Allen posted:

Wasn’t “psychohistory” in the Foundation novels essentially an anemic knock-off of Dialectical Materialism?

The Oldest Man posted:

dune's a way, way better take on the same basic idea

Somebody once told me that Dune was essentially the story of Foundation told from the perspective of the Mule and I still think about that when it's mentioned.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022
Is there a term for that kind of sociopolitical wrangling? Where you make a lovely version of what people are clamoring for in order to suck the air out of a social or political movement. I think Obamacare would be another example, the democrats passed a health insurance reform law in order to quiet the calls for actual health care reform.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Frosted Flake posted:

They're going to lose their minds, because there's barely anyway to get someone who was attached or supporting them to not be a sulking little bitch when they go back to their infantry battalion. There is no way these guys are going to cooperate and go back to Big Army, they'll have to release and be cops or YouTubers or whatever.

I know that Navy Seals mostly write books. I guess we'll see if the Army special forces can make the jump to youtube or podcasting.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

tatankatonk posted:

Alpha battery troops set up their big guns in March 2017 in a dirt field in Syria within sight of the enemy-controlled city of Raqqa and almost immediately started firing. They rarely stopped for the next two months.

The enemy here is ISIS

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Frosted Flake posted:

Electronic firing has proven to be a problem with lots and lots of money thrown down the drain chasing that dream.

What makes it so difficult? I feel like we already have a pretty good model for how to do something like this.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Slavvy posted:

No, that is literally the fake made up feelgood reason nobody used chemicals in WW2.

They didn't use them because they're not useful, nobody gave a flying gently caress about escalation when everyone was already firebombing cities and/or involved in a war of total annihilation, depending on who we're talking about.

They got used in WW1 as an attempted substitute for conventional ordinance because that was in short supply. They simply are not very effective despite everyone's best efforts. That's it, there is no escalation prevention reasoning to it at all.

Chemical weapons were used for warfare in WW2. Japan used them heavily against the Chinese, include 375 separate occasions during the Battle of Wuhan from August to October 1938. The Nazis also used chemical weapons against the Soviets in a few cases. Toxic smoke was used in Sevastopol to clear the Soviets out of caverns, asphyxiating gas in Odessa to clear the Soviets out of the catacombs, asphyxiating gas was used in Crimea to clear the Soviets out of caves and tunnels near a quarry, and possibly poison gas in the Caucus mountains.

Italy also used chemical weapons against Ethiopia but that doesn't count since it wasn't in WW2 proper. The Americans also accidently gassed themselves in Italy when their ship full of mustard gas was bombed by the Nazis. Of course the Nazi death camps used Zyklon B but that wasn't technically part of the war.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

FuzzySlippers posted:

What happens to your network centric warfare if global communications are disrupted? The Chinese idea of having an extra guy in a fighter plane nearby seems a hell of a lot better.

This is a plot point in Top Gun: Maverick. They couldn't use the F-35 because the enemy had jamming. I was surprised that line made it past the censors.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

skooma512 posted:

Had to have an excuse to use a two-seater so Maverick can have Goose Deuce with him. As bad the -35 is, I doubt jamming is a no fly condition.

Yes but they could have used a different excuse. They could have used a different excuse, like the politicians not being willing to risk their newest planes or something.

stephenthinkpad posted:

Also you don't need a 2-seater in the plot, because they only need the Iranian Tomcat to be the 2-seater.

You need a two-seater because the cowards in the Navy wouldn't let Tom Cruise fly a jet fighter for real. They had a real pilot in the other seat flying the actual plane during the filming.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022
Is it possible that the four german tanks are meant to connect to each other to form a tank Megazord?

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Kazzah posted:

What about a single generic tank model, which then customises itself based on what type of infantry gets into it? so if it's like a rifleman then it gets a big chaingun, and if it's a guy with a javelin it gets a missile launcher, or if it's a punk-rocker-type dude then it gets some sort of sound-cannon and a snazzy paint job

You absolute fool! What do you think will happen when a terrorist gets in one of these?

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

So when will the F-35 finally finish development?

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

DancingShade posted:

A leman russ tank but it has to be 50 tons. That's eldar technology.

A Leman Russ only weighs 60 tons. I believe it was first featured in 1995 and that was considered a reasonable weight for a futuristic tank back then.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Stairmaster posted:

how many 155mm shells does the USA actually have anyways? i know it's gonna take more than five years to replace the stuff sent to ukraine but how big of a dent is that anyways

In 1995 the US had about 10 Million 155mm rounds.

Here's the GAO report from 1995
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GAOREPORTS-NSIAD-95-89/html/GAOREPORTS-NSIAD-95-89.htm

Here's a youtube puppet giving estimates on artillery stockpiles and production in the context of the Ukraine war. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to give his sources. He estimates 4.6 to 6.3 million 155mm rounds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drGQZ2KQMfo

BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 09:23 on Nov 22, 2023

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

DancingShade posted:

An unsourced random Google search told me 28000 155mm shells per month as of October. I make no assurances about accuracy.

A good amount for peace time training and building up a reserve.

That's production per month not stockpiles. Here's a decent source (for production) but it's almost a full year old at this point.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/rebuilding-us-inventories-six-critical-systems

BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 08:40 on Nov 22, 2023

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

DancingShade posted:

I suspect anyone who knows the specifics for the USA has caveats trying their tongue but that is a pretty good article, thanks for linking.

I found another interesting article. This one is from Human Right's Watch and is from 2005. It's about the US stockpile of cluster munitions.
https://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/arms/cluster0705/2.htm

quote:

The report details a stockpile of 5.5 million cluster munitions containing about 728.5 million submunitions.10 This figure, however, does not appear to be a full accounting of cluster munitions available to U.S. forces. In particular, the tally does not include cluster munitions that are part of the War Reserve Stocks for Allies (WRSA).11 Human Rights Watch has previously reported that the U.S. inventory, including WRSA, totaled about one billion submunitions.

So that's about 7.5 million cluster munitions (including stockpiles of US allies).

quote:

Cluster munitions are particularly ubiquitous in the stores of U.S. ground forces. According to the DoD report, the Army has about 638.3 million cluster submunitions (88 percent of the total inventory) and the Marine Corps has about 53.3 million (7 percent). The report states, “Cannon and rocket artillery cluster munitions comprise over 80% of Army fire support capability,”13 and they “comprise the bulk of the Marine Corps artillery munitions.”14 The Air Force stockpiles about 22.2 million air-delivered cluster bombs (3 percent of the cluster inventory) and the Navy about 14.7 million (2 percent).

So 80% of the US Army artillery stockpiles in 2005 were cluster munitions? I'm not sure if that sounds correct. With about 7 million cluster munitions (ignoring Air Force and Navy) comprising 80% of the inventory that would mean about 1.5 million non-cluster munitions. Roughly 8.5 million munitions total (not just 155mm).

BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 09:24 on Nov 22, 2023

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022
The Old-School Artillery Shell Is Becoming High Tech
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-old-school-artillery-shell-is-becoming-high-tech/ar-AA1klGY1

Hell. Yes.

quote:

AUFOSS, Norway—At a factory in rural Norway, engineers are perfecting an artillery shell they say will be able to travel many times farther than the traditional ammunition currently pounding the battlefield in Ukraine.

The work is part of a broader trend among arms companies to increase the range, precision and lethality of artillery shells that have remained largely unchanged for decades.

The technological advances, giving some shells capabilities similar to missiles but with a lower cost and quicker production time, promise a dramatic change for artillery as it plays its biggest role since the Vietnam War.

quote:

Norway-based Nammo, in partnership with Boeing, is testing shells in Raufoss that use so-called ramjet engines that it says will eventually be able to travel up to about 90 miles—more than the distance from Philadelphia to New York. Standard-barreled howitzers have a range of around 15 miles with a conventional round, with longer-range cannons reaching just over 30 miles.

“This is a game changer,” said Øyvind Lien, program director for advanced tactical propulsion at Nammo. “You are putting a missile into a gun,” he said, amid the noise of grinding metal on the factory floor.

quote:

The company’s ramjet technology works by allowing air to enter through the front of the shell at high speed. The air is compressed and oxidizes the rocket fuel, allowing it to burn. Using outside air means ramjet shells don’t need to have oxidizer as part of their propellant, meaning they can cram in more fuel.

I've constantly been saying that the main thing that artillery shells are missing is an entire jet engine. I'm glad somebody is finally listening.

quote:

Nammo is developing shells fired by tanks where the operator can decide on the type of effect. For example, the shell could be programmed to explode in the air above a target or to penetrate its armor. Other companies are exploring the possibility of being able to adjust how much of a shell’s warhead detonates at the target, to potentially reduce collateral damage.

This is an upgrade available to Siege Tanks in Starcraft 2.

quote:

Both the U.S. and Europe produced about 300,000 artillery shells last year, according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies. The European Union believes its producers can increase production to one million shells by next year and the U.S. is looking at a level of 1.2 million.

It's nice to have dreams.

quote:

Manufacturing shells can be a lucrative business. Germany’s Rheinmetall said this month that it expects operating margins of 25% this year at its newly acquired Spanish shell maker compared with 8.4% for its wider business.

Triple the profits means triple the innovations.

quote:

An advantage artillery shells hold over missiles is that they are quicker and cheaper to make.

Cruise missiles can cost millions of dollars, and the rockets used in U.S.-guided missile systems, like Himars, cost $150,000 each. By contrast, a standard 155-millimeter high-explosive shell costs about $800 and a more-sophisticated guided Excalibur shell is about $68,000, according to CSIS.

A Russian-made Lancet drone is about 35,000 US dollars. Western-made 155mm HE shells are also currently a lot more expensive than $800.

quote:

BAE and Nammo haven’t disclosed how much their new shell will cost once in production, though the latter has said its ramjet shells could be considered high cost in comparison with other artillery products.

quote:

The increased complexity of shells also has its downside. For instance, guided shells have been vulnerable to Russian electronic warfare, Ukrainian artillery operators say. And new innovations, including ramjet rockets and guidance wings, take up space from explosive materials.

“There is a trade-off, as even a small ramjet engine in a shell changes how much explosive matter you can get in there,” Kotlarski said.

This is the last sentence of the article. They're really burying the lede.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Skaffen-Amtiskaw posted:

No need for RDX when we can just have bigger KE impacts from bespoke, artisanal ramjet power plants in each shell, lovingly 3D printed for mere thousands of dollars.

Thousands of dollars is the cost of a single, western-made, basic HE shell. Each new German 155mm shell costs 3,300 Euros. They cost 2,000 Euros even before the Ukraine war. These new shells are going to be much, much, much more profitable.

https://en.defence-ua.com/analysis/how_much_155mm_ammunition_costs_now_an_example_of_the_rheinmetall_contract_for_10000_shells-5178.html

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

stephenthinkpad posted:

Isn't ramjet vaporware? Is there a working ramjet product?

Ramjets are pretty common on missiles. You might be thinking of scramjets? Scramjets are like ramjets but even more faster.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Malleum posted:

2008 was just another flareup from ultranationalists in tblisi, but this time they thought uncle sam had their back because they were doing joint exercises with NATO.

“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.” - Henry Kissinger

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

gradenko_2000 posted:

it'll use "AI" to scan the snip for text, and then you'll get a further two buttons to select from. Click the one on the left, "Copy all text"

The Future's So Bright (I Gotta Wear Shades)

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Centrist Committee posted:

this post is wearing a fedora

If our society seems more nihilistic than that of previous eras, perhaps this is simply a sign of our maturity as a sentient species. As our collective consciousness expands beyond a crucial point, we are at last ready to accept life's fundamental truth: that life's only purpose is life itself.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022
The Warrior's bland acronym, MMI, obscures the true horror of this monstrosity. Its inventors promise a new era of genius, but meanwhile unscrupulous power brokers use its forcible installation to violate the sanctity of unwilling human minds. They are creating their own private army of demons.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

skooma512 posted:

Yeah, if I were trained on an aircraft, particularly one as unique as the V22, I’d be fairly proud of it and fanboy about it too

Same. People (mostly dudes) just love their dangerous equipment that they work with, especially if they get to control it. For some reason the first example that springs to mind is Siegfried and Roy and their tigers.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

poisonpill posted:

hahaha yeah totally obvious…. can you just say what those are, for, uhhh, anyone that’s afraid to ask

The US needs to make more "Commodities Not Specified According to Kind".

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

FuzzySlippers posted:

I enjoyed listening to that book many years ago. Listening to that book's description of Midway made me consider how we frame costly victories. The early waves of American attacks were rough and inconclusive due to deficiencies of equipment and training (like those useless torpedoes), but the Americans just kept piling on and eventually wore down the Japanese so they started to make an impact and ended up sinking those ships that swung the K:D ratio way in favor of the US. For a Western military we'll call this something like bloody mindedness and grit. If it were a Soviet or Chinese military we'd say they were just communist bug people who don't recognize casualties and kept marching to their doom like ants unthinkingly following a scent trail.

For all their propagandist tone I've been happy to watch the Chinese Korean war movies because at least someone is making movies about the forgotten war and only the Chinese would admit they didn't just swarm over US positions and win by virtue of their endless Asiatic hordes. They had more forces (there is an advantage to a war fought on your border instead of the other side of the globe), but they won because they fought with skill learned over long years fighting the Japanese and the KMT.

If you refer to the US tactics in the battle of Okinawa as "Human Wave Attacks" people get really really mad at you.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Slavvy posted:

I wonder what the Russian and Chinese fighter planes have for uploading mission data or whatever

There was video of Russian fighter pilots using civilian GPSes.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

gradenko_2000 posted:

the carrier-posting in the other thread got me thinking: is there a weapon and/or a defensive protocol for destroying torpedoes?

I think prevention is the better solution to torpedoes. What if we built a type of ship and put a bunch of detection equipment on it and then had it patrol far away from the Aircraft Carriers in order to find and destroy any ships that might launch torpedoes at us? We would need to build a bunch to have full coverage. We could call them Torpedo Ship Neutralizers.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

FuzzySlippers posted:

Didn't know their air defenses were that good. Though in the past the US has generally been cavalier about firing off some cruise missiles to "send a message". Even if they don't hit anything important they can still look muscular on cable news. I wonder if the reluctance here is material (they don't have the missiles to waste) or diplomatic (hoping to find a solution that doesn't antagonize them or others in the region further).

The US is probably worried about Yemen firing off its own rockets in order to "send a message" themselves and taking out a Saudi oil well.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Slavvy posted:

gradenko_2000 posted:

War Thunder leaked classified information again

This time on the M2 Bradley
What was it?

It's a big armored vehicle that can carry troops but that's not important right now.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Slavvy posted:

The Bradley is an unusually huge but otherwise run of the mill ifv. It isn't even that heavy I don't think.

It also costs as much as a T-90.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Delta-Wye posted:

its extra funny to me because its completely solvable. there is no reason to intercept a shahed with a million+ dollar missile, im sure there exists a solution to this problem


it just doesn't make the right people richer & more powerful

lol, lmao sucks to be a sailor

The solution is anti-air cannons. Bring back Flak guns. I don't know what size shells would work best but they would be cheaper than the current missile interceptors. Use those fancy computers and radars to determine where to fire the shells and set the appropriate distance fuze and just fire a few dozen rounds at each Shahed.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

DancingShade posted:

I think the shells for naval deck guns cost a bit though. Maybe not as much as a missile but probably still multiples of a flying lawnmower looking to drain the magazine.

You know what. Reflecting on it there isn't a solution because anything that can be implemented is simply going to not be cost effective because of the inherant grift required for such a project to see fruition.

It's a solvable problem for nations that aren't the US, just build factories that can build tonnes of naval shells on the cheap. China will have this problem licked. Cheap and plentiful naval shells plus interdiction of enemy drones (exploding enemy drone launchers before they can launch their drones) can bring the industrial cost of the war to (roughly) matching levels.

There's also a another technology that's been developed to cheaply counter enemy drones. It's a UAV that's tethered to the ground and is designed to physically intercept the enemy drones. They're easier to use on fixed positions and are more effective if layered.



The Brits used these to counter the primitive UAVs that the Nazis were using to attack London and the Americans used them to secure the beacheheads against air attack after the D-Day landings.

BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 08:03 on Dec 26, 2023

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022
I'm hearing a lot of anti-Space-X talk in this thread. Space-X is amazing if you give any shits at all about spaceflight, the ability to land and reuse the first stage is a revolutionary technology. I have very few good things to say about Elon Musk but his money has done great things for space exploration when it was given to the right people. Please keep funding the scientists and engineers at Space-X even if we decide to kill Elon.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

thechosenone posted:

I mean I'm sure there's someone on Musk's payroll who would love to be part of a way less lovely space program.

The good thing about scientists, is that they don't need to be attached to some guy's name to do good: what they need is to be attached to an organization/economic system that isn't completely feckless and doesn't destroy 90-95% of their effort.

Edit: So like I dunno maybe NASA will get a bone one of these days.

SpaceX is already a well-run organization, you can leave most of it in place. Sure it would work better under a superior economic system (especially one with a better education system) but it's perfectly functional right now. It's one of the most impressive space organizations in the world and not merely the best private spaceflight organization.

BitcoinRockefeller posted:

Wow, so much data!

We learned that a flame diverter trench is absolutely necessary and that flying concrete bits are bad for rockets. Honestly this was already known. There is a serious problem where people are so blinded by hi-tech gizmos and rapid operations that they forget about solid proven technology like just digging a trench.

gradenko_2000 posted:

You ivory tower intellectuals must not lose touch with the world of industrial growth and hard currency. It is all very well and good to pursue these high-minded scientific theories, but research grants are expensive. You must justify your existence by providing not only knowledge but concrete and profitable applications as well.

Technological advance is an inherently iterative process. One does not simply take sand from the beach and produce a space probe. We use crude tools to fashion better tools, and then our better tools to fashion more precise tools, and so on. Each minor refinement is a step in the process, and all of the steps must be taken.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

FirstnameLastname posted:

the one other non spacex launch would be the Artemis test launch using the SLS, which is literally 'wasn't that big fuel tank they launched with the shuttle cool looking? what if we just launched that '

literally

same rockets, same thiol solid rocket boosters

for 23 billion dollars

it has launched once and there's as many spare RS-25 engines as there are planned launches before retiring the project (loving two lol)

we cant build more, ofc

The SLS is literally the same tech as the space shuttle. Same solid-fuel boosters, same fuel tank, same liquid-fuel rocket engine. The SLS was designed by congress to keep those same factories open and running. The difference being that the space shuttle landed with those RS-25 engines and reused them while the SLS will just drop them into the sea.

The space shuttle was always kind of a dumb idea. Every pound launched to orbit is very expensive and the space shuttle was very heavy, each pound of weight for the space shuttle was a pound of payload that couldn't be launched on that mission. Compare that to the Falcon 9, which reuses the first (bottom) stage instead. The first stage is both the heaviest (and very costly) stage and the part that goes the least "distance" and goes at the slowest speed (in rocket terms). The fact that the first stage is moving so "slow" also makes it the easiest to recover

The Soviet space shuttle Buran was still conceptually kind of a dumb idea, but it made a number of improvements. It was launched on an Energia rocket that could launch other missions as well, so the Buran didn't need the massive engines that the US shuttle had (and had to drag all the way into orbit). This also removed the need for massive amounts of cryogenic fuel to flow sideways through the shuttle body and into the engine. The ice formed on these fuel lines is what caused the Challenger disaster.



Edit: At one point there was another US concept for a shuttle replacement. It was called the Shuttle-C. It was uncrewed and those big engines at the bottom would drop off in a "boat tail" and be recovered. This allowed the engines to be reused and saved all the fuel it would take to get them all the way into orbit.

BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 05:12 on Dec 27, 2023

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Nobody bats a 1.000, sometimes organizations we love make dumb unforced errors. Today (December 26th) of all days we need to understand that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcE0vyqL_ro

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

DickParasite posted:

It appears that there are enormous differences of opinion as to the probability of a failure with loss of vehicle and of human life. The estimates range from roughly 1 in 100 to 1 in 100,000. The higher figures come from the working engineers, and the very low figures from management.

...

since the Shuttle is a manned vehicle "the probability of mission success is necessarily very close to 1.0."

The final catastrophic failure rate of the space shuttle was 2 in 135, pretty drat close to the engineers' rough estimates.

Fun Fact: Big Bird from Sesame Street was originally supposed to be on the final flight of the Challenger. He was scrubbed from the mission because he was too large for the seats and spacesuit. He was replaced with the teacher Christa McAuliffe, a civilian specialist who would conduct educational lessons for children from space and demonstrate how safe and routine spaceflight now was.

Overall, it's probably for the best that millions of children didn't wind up watching Big Bird explode on live tv.

BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 06:16 on Dec 27, 2023

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

DancingShade posted:

(puts on top hat and monocle, swirls brandy)

Rather that re-introduce school lunches to combat malnutrition during an enlistment shortfall crisis and thus spend good money on those filthy disgusting poors I suggest we simply re-introduce cannibalism as the solution, so long as they only eat other poor people of course.

I have a modest proposal that you may be interested in.

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BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022
Here's what Energia 2 could have looked like. This conception uses Baikal-style flyback boosters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6GG8KHDjZk

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