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just another posted:Baudrillard wrote about a state of being called hyperreality wherein you can no longer differentiate between what is real and what is simulation. The Matrix references it directly because it's described in his book Simulacra and Simulation, and this is also the book Neo's hollowed out to hide his disks at the start of it. Baudrillard didn't necessarily mean full-on Matrix simulation; more like we live in a world where we've lost touch with material reality, and everything is relational and relative and fluid (e.g. if you work in a factory, being a "factory worker" is now an identity unto itself and not a description of your relationship to the means of production). Cartoon Man posted:That trailer breakdown was really cool, if even half the theories posed are true, I’m excited. I like the idea of Neo working at a company making Matrix videogames and movies based on his past life in the first three movies.
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Sep 14, 2021 15:07
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MO was kinda interesting in how they had to expand on the renegade programs in order to have enough factions for you to play, and make it possible for people to hack the Matrix in real time, from inside the Matrix, so that they could have a Wizard class. I also remember that you could punt kick someone in the crotch from behind, and this was an entire skill path you could train up.
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Sep 14, 2021 17:12
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It's in the first movie. Morpheus says that human beings generate bioelectricity and heat which, combined with a form of fusion, provides all the energy they'll ever need. Of course, that makes no sense.
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Sep 14, 2021 18:02
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If you were talking about, say, some technobabble about the deflector dish in an episode of Star Trek, I'd agree with you. But that's pretty silly advice for a movie where the hero hides his hacking software in a copy of Simulacra and Simulation, which his mentor then quotes. It's very obvious that the humans do not entirely understand the Machines' reasons for creating and maintaining the Matrix, and might be totally off-base.
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Sep 14, 2021 18:28
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Basebf555 posted:When Neo challenges The Architect about his threat to end all human life, he says "there are levels of survival we're willing to accept", which seems to indicate that the power generated from humans is some sort of luxury thing that isn't totally necessary to the survival of the Machines.
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Sep 14, 2021 18:39
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checkplease posted:He will end all class struggle in the matrix by freeing everyone from it.
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Sep 15, 2021 22:07
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Smith has zero reason to lie to Morpheus, who is about to die along with Zion. If we suppose that he's feeding false intel to people the Machines are going to exterminate tomorrow, nothing makes sense.
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Sep 19, 2021 21:32
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"I want to kill all your friends so I can quit my lovely job" is a hell of a persuasion technique
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Sep 20, 2021 19:11
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Abner Assington posted:The author sounds like a tragically unfun person.
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Sep 21, 2021 18:25
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"Oligarch" is an interesting choice. Like I'm all for anticapitalism, but if they're oligarchs, what kind of wealth do they have? Is there money? Can the Merovingian earn enough $Coppertops to join the Oligarchy?
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Sep 21, 2021 20:46
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Something the Architect could not predict: a Wife Guy.
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Sep 23, 2021 18:32
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:One of the biggest problems in Matrix is that they kept the same actors for the matrix and real-world scenes, when it really doesn’t make sense for the pale dude in the pod and his digital self to both look like Keanu Reeves.
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Sep 24, 2021 14:13
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Shiroc posted:Trinity's whole backstory is unclear but she reads heavily as someone just slightly farther along figuring themselves out than Neo. Neo is crushing on her because of that. Trinity is crushing on Neo because she seems so much of herself in him and the exciting potential for what he could become once he fully finds himself.
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Sep 24, 2021 15:05
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porfiria posted:Can an agent possess a monkey
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Sep 28, 2021 02:48
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So then nobody in Zion would be trans, or they would just gender affirm in a different way?
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Sep 30, 2021 19:21
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mysterious frankie posted:Given that the world outside the Matrix seems like a flora\fauna\sunless hellhole where people subsist on mysterious pastes, I'm guessing fertility rates aren't through the roof.
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Sep 30, 2021 20:45
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Considering what they've done to Burning Man, that really tracks.Neo Rasa posted:This also made me wonder like, is every awakening the as personalized as Neo's? Like Morpheus is pretty zealous about him being THE ONE, Trinity has a thing for him, etc., so that may have effected their process. Like maybe or run of the mill folks there's less like run-ins with the agents or after a tedious build up they have enough people at the tipping point that folks are getting awakened at a steady rate now. Neo the average day job guy in the Matrix who's also a big-time hacker was actively reading up on Morpheus before getting the call, so like is a person in the Matrix thinking "hey maybe this Morpheus guy that keeps eluding the police has some good ideas I'm going to look into that" the thing that sets off the "go in and awaken this person" alert or whatever? Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Sep 30, 2021 |
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Sep 30, 2021 21:01
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Shiroc, imagine for a moment that we're in a different world, where everyone in this thread is posting the way that you want them to post. Could you tell me a little about what that looks like? Please note that I'm not asking you to list things you don't want.
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Sep 30, 2021 22:54
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From my point of view, the conversation between Ferrinus and SMG here is mostly about getting to the bottom of the material conditions. YMMV. I have more to say, but frankly I don't want to spit out something ill-considered and poorly-worded because I thought I had to cram an effortpost into the time it takes my pizza to finish cooking.
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Sep 30, 2021 23:18
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Ferrinus posted:It's really the opposite; Marx's rivals produced analysis so far from material concerns that it failed to educate or agitate anyone. That's why there have been multiple Marxist revolutions but no Proudhonian ones.
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Oct 1, 2021 00:51
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Ferrinus posted:This is like saying that corrections officers "serve" the leaders of the white nationalist prison gangs in specific.
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Oct 3, 2021 17:43
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RBA Starblade posted:It's also really fun how most of the time the squids are taking it super easy on the humans and only occasionally shooting their lasers
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Dec 30, 2021 01:03
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ImpAtom posted:The dude is explicitly taking delight in deadnaming a character. You're not going to win this. Just try to ignore them.
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Jan 2, 2022 19:28
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The speculation on what's going on in Lana W's head and her relationship with WB is strange to me. I doubt anyone is given free reign to spend $190 million of their boss's money to gently caress around and make fun of the boss. Random criticism: the way Neo manifests his powers by just Force Pushing baddies around struck me as very lazy and unimaginative.
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Jan 5, 2022 18:26
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I can only assume that prisoners of the Matrix are allowed to form relationships and mate, and the Machines respond by growing clones from their tissue samples. They can't just grow kids and assign them to people who think they're pregnant; if they did, the freed prisoners wouldn't look anything like their avatars. It's possible that every human pairing was specifically engineered, but I don't see any evidence that the Machines dedicated that degree of surveillance and control on every single person in the Matrix. The Machines are at the mercy of the capitalist system they keep creating, in which human society isn't sustainable and self-reproducing in the long term.
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Jan 5, 2022 21:51
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Ferrinus posted:We both know the alien socioeconomics because they're revealed less than halfway through the first movie: imprisoned humans power the machine civilization, but only if they're kept in a certain kind of dreaming sleep. This is explained in the first movie and never contradicted. The takeaway isn't that matrix poverty is illusory (because, in the world of the matrix, it will literally kill you whether or not it is mediated through a computer simulation), but that it's artificial. The poor are only "always" with us because of how our economy has been constructed. That doesn't mean there isn't a functioning economy, "real" jobs, and so on, within the matrix, just that the true relations of production and force that maintain this system are obfuscated from you and your boss both, just like in real life. I also wonder about the various barriers that must exist to keep people from traveling out of bounds. The common example is what happens if Neo wants to take a plane to Heathrow Airport and look for clues as to Morpheus' whereabouts. Does the UK exist as some kind of Potemkin village, with a few landmarks that you can visit?
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Jan 5, 2022 22:32
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HorseLord posted:I live next to a city in real life, Nijmegen. It is normal for people to refer to "the city" in conversations, because we have the shared context that "the city" is Nijmegen. It doesn't mean that only one city exists. (I haven't seen the sequels for a while, but I believe there are shots of Neo flying over an impossibly vast urban skyline.)
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Jan 7, 2022 15:16
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HorseLord posted:I really don't understand why people make such unnecessary and complicated theories based on half remembrances, misremembrances, and trying to scrape elaborate meanings out of nonspecific street signage that's on screen for 2 frames. The trucks the camera goes under in the freeway chase have placeholder graphics where the chassis should be. Does that imply something about how cars work in the matrix? No! it means the movie is nearly 20 years old and the CGI is sometimes very poo poo! In the process of making the film, they deliberately kept some references to specific places (Heathrow Airport, Wabash Avenue, etc.) but expunged the actual features of the territory. One set designer mentioned that, as is standard, they made fake decals for trucks so that they couldn't get sued by some business. Cream of Wheat was changed to Tasty Wheat. But there's no purely practical reason to hide a Chicago Transit Authority sign. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 16:25
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It's the end of the 90s. In the words of Martin Blank, governments are just public relations theory at this point.HorseLord posted:I'm not going back and forth at all. I'm pointing out that some things are having meaning attributed to them where there is none. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 17:27
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HorseLord posted:Maybe you should read what I wrote again? I'm not going to rewrite it, so I'll just copy and paste: 2. You said yourself that Morpheus was spotted in a specific location and that they travel to other specific locations. Why go through the trouble to make everything look like an unnamed City if it isn't one? The characters instantly appear in various locations across the Matrix; why hide that the action is taking place across multiple cities? Why change the names and signs but keep the verbal references to specific places in Chicago and London? 3. Here, I can be a jerk too: HorseLord believes that The Dark Knight Rises is about an alternate timeline where London, NYC, Pittsburgh, and LA are connected into one giant Judge Dredd style megatropolis called Gotham City. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 17:35
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HorseLord posted:I answered your question and all you had to do was read it. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Growing up in the "Perpetual 90s" would produce very, very different kinds of people then our "real" world did.  Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 17:48
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HorseLord posted:What does not matter is what the name of that story location is.
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Jan 7, 2022 18:19
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Trinity was a program until she was 45 years old?
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Jan 11, 2022 22:14
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:It is. But it's not cosplaying or an expression of bigotry, which is what you said. Like, how do you think American-style sack suits became the Professional Norm all over the world, including countries where people where kimonos or thawbs? Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jan 13, 2022 |
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Jan 13, 2022 17:33
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Nuts and Gum posted:Someone please photoshop the reveal of Morpheus but with a milk mustache
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Jan 13, 2022 19:50
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Like, what’s up with the imagery of the ‘bots’ committing mass suicide? How do you square that with the reading that they represent transphobic people?
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Jan 19, 2022 18:54
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Nebalebadingdong posted:In the Matrix, me, Jeff Bezos, a homeless person and a Foxconn worker are all being exploited at the exact same rate, right? Like, Bezos could wake up and fight the machines and then go back inside to continue owning Amazon. Seems like a poor metaphor for capitalism. The question I can't get past is why the Machines are doing any of this, because it can't be for our precious British thermal units. If you have energy from fusion, you have energy from fusion. I can only assume that they're not farming energy that they get from making people miserable, they're farming the misery itself. Okay, so why are they doing that? I can only guess that they're stuck in the same rut we are, trapped in the logic of the late-capitalist system, and studying humanity in the hopes of learning things that will allow them to break the cycle and make real progress. It's not working, probably because they're assuming that the late 1990s was the peak of human civilization. It's like the scientists who studied wolves in captivity, assuming they were seeing their "natural" behaviour in their "natural" environment, not realizing that they were actively loving up their social dynamcis the whole time. This generated a lot of wrongheaded thinking about "alphas and betas." Hm. Perhaps the Machines have based their whole economy on mining psychic cryptocurrency, arbitrarily assigning it value and using this value-form to measure wealth and social status among themselves. Of course none of this data is actually useful, or in any case isn't being interpreted correctly, so it's totally disconnected from the actual economy of building fusion plants and spider robots and squid robots and metal womb pods. Which is why the Machines were facing an energy crisis.
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Jan 20, 2022 03:31
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No Mods No Masters posted:Yeah, I mean if you take away the bot element they're just people working for the bad guy. Maybe they're assholes, maybe they have their reasons, maybe they're the machine equivalent of sheeple, maybe they're slaves in their own right, etc. Revealing that some people are just NPCs seems like a regression from that. (It comes across like a videogamey conceit, where they realized that they need some "low-level" enemies for the heroes to beat up.)
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Jan 20, 2022 15:29
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The power plant explanation would make sense to me if the prisoners were literally sleepwalking while working alongside the spider robots. I rewatched the movie this past weekend and enjoyed it more the second time. I still felt like depicting Neo's awakening power as just telekinesis and blinding light was very uninspired, as was the zombie imagery.
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Jan 21, 2022 15:38
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I've thought about how Machines must view humans. As prisoners, or perhaps as abusive parents they nonetheless feel bound to care for in our dotage. Prisoners serve are instrumental to capital in various ways, though they're not performing productive labour just by being in a prison. The best analogy, if it's even an analogy, might be to lab animals. I suppose that if a rabbit being used to make antibodies is performing labour, so are the prisoners in the Matrix. I would compare them to chickens laying eggs, too, but humans aren't a domestic species.
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Jan 21, 2022 17:48
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