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Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
I'm not above posting 'Ground Floor"

That's a wonderful OP and even though there were no photoshops I really appreciate the photos that were chosen.

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Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

Lassitude posted:

fuuuuuu

Oh well, change the party from within etc.


Pinterest Mom posted:

Nah, his reason for withdrawing checks out. The party was screwing him to make it hard for him to get the nomination, and if he read between the lines he understood he'd also have very little support in the general if he did win.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
Small business and those working for them.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

Lassitude posted:

Seriously. Tomato on a chicken sandwich? loving philistine.

:thunk:

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
I think I'll be volunteering for the NDP this election. Time to look up how to do it lol.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
This is the year of an NDP minority government I claim knowing nothing of politics.

Jagmeet just needs to say a couple of interesting things and suck up those center voters that don't want to appear racist.

Trudeau will split up the meme loving racist cons. :ironicat:

Toalpaz fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Sep 19, 2019

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

:woop: :bandwagon: :woop:

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

Jan posted:

Black community representatives are saying "who gives a poo poo, what are the different parties proposing to do about the systemic conditions that lead to racism thriving in the first place?"

Yes but this is canada we're talking about.

The best we're going to get is ndp capturing votes. The worst is this splitting up the lib base votes for a con gov. The conversation is not going to be how to solve systemic racism unless Jagmeet takes it there with platform solutions.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

it gone already hahaha

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
I am sad to say I did the strategic voting thing based on vote reform last election, I don't think I would do it this election. Having been lied to by Trudeau really sucks and there should be consequences for him and his government. I think that this government has been pretty bad. Letting conservatives win is opening the door for more austerity, more freetrade, more hard on guns type laws it seems? Cons and libs don't feel that much different and possibly it might be more important to signal that NDP can be viable in the future.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

zapplez posted:

i agree its much better to stand by our convictions and let sheer run the country

Is trudeau that much better? Just look at postess.....

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
No voting liberal is almost the same as voting conservatives hth. Most reasonable advice is to look at your riding's history and decide whether your NDP candidate is viable or not. I don't think you should feel locked into voting lib.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

Vintersorg posted:

It's a different world than 2011 as well. Right-wing extremism is on the rise and only growing more popular in Canada. Who knows what the Cons will do once in power with a very vocal base spurred on by false information and goddamn meme's of all things.

Strategic voting is all us loving idiots can do to prevent the right from gaining power.

One cool thing people can do that certain people hate is not talk about strategic voting a month before polling go up and instead push the conversation more left and see what happens. There's no reason voting lib to own the cons should feel like an inevitability at this point, especially considering the past orange wave.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
Yeah that's right, we live in a world that's longer lasting than one election cycle. So we need to push left and NDP as hard as we can and build up a history of going NDP so that more people are comfortable with them in the future.

We can write off any maybes the cons might do with all the maybes a future government may undo. It's all speculation.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

When people bring up that their grandparents fought nazis, and point out at these antifa youths didn't personally fight in wwii, they seem to ignore the fact that they themselves did not fight in wwii either and are capable of being racist white nationalists too.

Like there's no point in talking about your grandparents there. It just obfuscates the point of the protest and focuses on the vulgarity of the youths, attempting to deflect from the points being made about the PPC platform, messaging and discourse by not engaging with them.

e: :yeah:

Juul-Whip posted:

My grandfather was in the army therefore there’s no way I could possibly be a Nazi. Someone should inform those immature youths I encountered on my way to attending a Nazi rally

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
I can't believe canada is literially ruined for another 4 years

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

EimiYoshikawa posted:

Seconds after I hit submit reply on my post, the CBC focused on how the Greens got a million votes across the country and 1/10th of the seats the BQ got, despite the BQ only getting 1.2 million votes.

So...yeah...fuckin' Trudeau, one more reason I feel so guilty in feeling like I'm rewarding his bad behavior by voting strategically for a liberal candidate who didn't win (even if she came closer than anyone else in Calgary).

Ah...well. Not like it feels any worse than any other election in my lifetime as a lifelong Atypical Albertan.

vote ndp next time lmao

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
they won because obviiously the Bloq has better progressive policies. that's why the Bloq does better over all for labour across canada.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
Bye-berta

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

Helsing posted:

The amount of interest being generated by this topic makes me think it might be worth starting a new thread. D&D doesn't have a lot of big concept threads for debating or arguing about these kinds of topics like planning vs markets, what constitutes "ownership" and other related 'big picture' questions about political economy.

Yeah I mean though, how much of this is up for debate?

The categories are policy:
Planned Economies vs Market Economies

Then there's governmental logic:
Liberalism rationality vs Communist Rationality

Those are two different axis in sort of Foucault terms.

Comparing Planned Economies to Communist Rationality is kind of muddling the definitions in a way that isn't useful right?

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
They had the minister of middle class prosperity on the CBC radio this morning and it was no very reassuring.

Arivia posted:

that is not the kind of response I want from an indigenous ndp leader, gently caress

I don't trust marxist when they say stuff like ID Politics is fake because I assume bad faith, but ID Politics isn't super legitimate and doesn't award people who fall into marginal groups special knowledge that make them always good at analysis of structural problems, public speaking, politics, etc. Believing blindly, or even using as a guideline that marginalized people will know and respond better, can lead to disappointment and risks producing weird hierarchies.

We should trust what marginalized people say, give marginalized people platforms to say it, genuinely listen to marginalized people, and strive at all times not to reproduce inequalities in coming up with socially just policies based on this information and participation. But marginalized people don't have an existence that inherently lets them see the truth all the time or express it, and can fall into supporting patterns that reproduce the status quo.

Also a comment on his language:

'It sucks when bullets suddenly penetrate the body like that in public places with no apparent causes!'

Toalpaz fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Nov 22, 2019

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
Yeah I know that the proliferation of 'less lethal' options like tasers masks real questions we should be asking about police use of force, but also they should have maybe tried that before killing the guy too.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

vincentpricesboner posted:

I'm not sure what winnipeg police is like but I know Toronto used to only give the tasers to sargents, giving the regular joe schmoe cops less options.


Re-read my post. I'm not advocating for the death penalty for armed robbery, thats crazy. But you can't say the person who just robbed the store with a machete is blameless

I don't think the cops really need people defending them, and there should be serious consequences for killing people. I think that the dead person has shouldered enough blame at this point and it's time to mete out blame among the living.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
Goodbye Scheer! I'll miss you!

Remember the only good enemy is a weak one.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

Leofish posted:

Since Google and Facebook took all the ad money away the national media has to resort to reporting on some people being mad on Twitter about dumb bullshit.

https://twitter.com/globalwinnipeg/status/1219681853331976192

But wait! There's more!

https://twitter.com/OhDoughnuts/status/1219434179777032192
https://twitter.com/OhDoughnuts/status/1219434181337309194

Oh my god

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
I don't buy cards for people because its dumb. I will write a note and affix it to a gift if I feel like it.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
Tory Red! Imagine!!!

just another posted:

That transition is never going to happen in regions that are deemed vital to the national interest and I wish the provincial and federal government would stop pretending otherwise. It pacifies people.

Read uh Red Skin, White Masks: Rejecting the Colonial Politics of Recognition by Glen Coulthard. He talk about how liberal politics does work to pacify and assimilate First Nations! There's an emergent literature that discusses why the pacification is part of the point of government strategies of engaging with First Nations issues.

Toalpaz fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jan 27, 2020

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
Its working!!!!!!

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

:cry:

Why cant i be gay antagonistic? Free Speech!!!

Also, Daren't? Really?

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
I love it thank you!!!

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

Wilhelm posted:

Because as cynical as it sounds it is literally impossible to build any sort of infrastructure or energy project without stirring up some element of protest - even the construction of things like sustainable transit systems etc. will generally stir up a lot of opposition from local communities (traffic impacts, construction noises/detours etc).

If an organization decides it wants to camp out in the right of way of a light rail project, is your position that it needs to be cancelled?

yeah, that's your moral obligation, to cancel the project.

e: hth

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

Wilhelm posted:

Because as cynical as it sounds it is literally impossible to build any sort of infrastructure or energy project without stirring up some element of protest - even the construction of things like sustainable transit systems etc. will generally stir up a lot of opposition from local communities (traffic impacts, construction noises/detours etc).

If an organization decides it wants to camp out in the right of way of a light rail project, is your position that it needs to be cancelled?


So what does this look like then? In this case literally every single band council has signed onto the project and consultations have been ongoing for nearly a decade. A majority of Wet'suwet'en support the project. This is literally being held up solely by a fairly small group of hereditary chiefs who have treated their community like poo poo and have rejected all consultations & invitations.

To be frank, the government and people doing projects do have a duty to consult and obtain informed consent to do projects like these over FN land. The government uses 'official' governments like the elected band counsels to manufacture consent among FN communities, and have been known to use clauses in place in the Indian Act to force elections to get governments more favourable to industry in.

The obligation to consult and gain consent on the part of the government is legislated and present, they are not supposed to approve of these projects without consent. The issue of 'who' is consenting matters, and that's why it sounds fake and bad to say 'there will always be some factions that don't approve', when that's the point of the Indian Act, to enfranchise some FN as decision makers and target them for consent purposes and approve of extraction industry and development. Canada benefits from working to factionalize FN communities, and your attitude that you displayed is an indication of how effective they have been.

The question is of property and sovereignty. The lands in question are unceded, Canada has no legal basis for their 'ownership' of the lands there, and they were never given up through treaties unlike the lands in Ontario or a vast majority of Canada, further complicating the issue.

Toalpaz fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Feb 13, 2020

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

Wilhelm posted:

I agree - but what does the mechanism look like for a First Nations band that wants to proceed with a project or agreement? The Indian Act is a racist POS I agree; but Canada & unceded territories really don't have an actual process for the development of projects in these areas (which can be a detriment to the FN band itself; there are numerous thriving FN populations in the north that have led the charge as stakeholders in the development of hydro/energy infrastructure).

I think if there are groups that want to proceed they should be entitled and empowered to negotiate on a nation to nation/corporation level with Canada and the energy companies.

However, given the nature of pipelines, one location to another across vast tracts of land, if one group doesn't want to proceed you're not going to be able to proceed with the project. That's what respecting people's rights means.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

Wilhelm posted:

It's impossible to legislate formally since every project will be unique. Approving governance that isn't democratic is also a very very dangerous path to take morally I think. (Though I'm of the view that no culture or system of government can be ethically be based on anything short of elections or direct democracy).

Okay but if you believe that it's just to begin enforcing democracy at gunpoint or at threat of starvation, you've got a colonialist attitude you really have to unpack. Do your actions result in enfranchise people with the 'right to vote and direct control over their leadership' or are you facilitating energy industry coming onto people's backyard. Specifically people who are historically marginalized, with a long history of being the target of conquest by Canada, France, and Britain.

I don't think a FN authoritarian state is a real realistic concern.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

Wilhelm posted:

Would you apply this on a Municipal level also? What about on a subdivision or neighborhood scale? There's inherently going to be communities that get overridden - if dozens of bands all want a project and one is an outlier then it is still probably correct to overrule the stand-out.

The whole point is I'm not going to be applying anything, I'm going to try and help facilitate people governing themselves. I don't think you can say for certain how it will look at any one level because ultimately people and communities are going to have many different ideas about what they want, and coming to a consensus based solution for a capital project should be a long and arduous process.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

priznat posted:

Personally I think this takes resources away from the most important project: building a wall on the alberta border.

Were full! !!

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

"Protesters who aren't first nations need to check their privileged."

Oh my goooood!

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

lmao

also

I was at the Toronto family day We'suwet'en solidarity march today. It was nice, if a bit cold.

The highlight was a white anti vaxxor who kept trying to steal the mike and break up drumming circles to say that native genocide isn't the only genocide and vaccines are genocide.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

literally :discourse:

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Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
I wish the police would Do Something about those truckers.

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